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post #61 of 72 Old 01-08-2013, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Billy p View Post

I saw that review amongst others posted over at HTS because Axiom Audio is now a advertsing partner there ..one thing I found strange was outside of the mods heaping praise there was very little interaction or comments from other members....if I recall it was the m22 inwall review. My experiment with Axiom speakers lasted about 6months....I have no bones to pick with them and I enjoyed my time over at Axioms forum with guys like Dean, Dan and Fred(and few others)...but you also have a few guys who went way over the top with PM's too me( I'm sure GT had a similar fate) and why I wouldn't recommend Axioms...fwiw....I still have my Q4's, first speakers I purchased from Axiom...going on 3+yrs now.
Cheers...Bill

I noticed Axiom is a advertising partner too. I think at one point I counted 11 Axiom banners on the page at once, that should be more than enought to counter my posts about Axiom. Which it might seem alot but I can only recall 3-4 threads on AVS in the last year that really involved Axiom. HTS in my eyes is kind of a waste. Its a very dead lifeless forum, thats why I like AVS so much. Its FUN biggrin.gif

I have nothing personal against a single member any where except for a few and they have nothing to do with Axiom, but they are blocked. By the way thats why they have the Block Member deal, if you repeatedly don't like what someone is saying BLOCK, that easy. I've received my share of personal nasty pm's but not one that I can remember from any of the Axiom forum regulars.

My Axiom experience stopped back in early summer when I pretty much gave them all away 4 M2s, VP150, and M22s V2s. Thats why I don't participate in the Axiom forum anymore and that why I don't participate in the Axioms owners thread although haven't seen that in a long time, guess Axiom guys gave up on that one.

I think I could recommend Axiom again if they improved their stuff at least IMO. Until then I'd probably tell everyone that has them on there list to pass, as do just about every other AVS and Audioholic member. I don't see where people feel this is some new occurance it was happening way back when I first purchased Axioms and even fought to recommend them. Until I guess I wisened (SP?) and seen the light lol.
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post #62 of 72 Old 01-08-2013, 04:46 PM
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I would think that their price point would be way beyond what most people would be able to afford hence the lack of comment. They don't interest me as I prefer smaller, more compact systems such as sats & subs..

Even though I'd luv to own a new Corvette, it is certainly beyond my resources so I wouldn't even bother contributing any interest in a forum. I'd just look & drool, ha!!

Look at the bottom of this page and any AV web site - advertising is rampant everywhere on the net by a myriad of companies. For the time being, it is still capitalism & therefore is the nature of the beast.

Thanks for your input, billy...

TAM
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post #63 of 72 Old 01-08-2013, 05:48 PM
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At the moment I look around this AVS page & I see ads from:

Rhythmic
Amazon
Mitsubishi
Panasonic
Epson
Projector People
Cedia
Monoprice
Emotiva
Oppo
Blue Jeans Cable
Cleveland Plasma
HSU
AV Science
Earth Share
AVS Top Picks: Klisch RF 7; BIC PL-200; Polk Audio RTI A9 - all from Amazon
NexLog

That's about 20 per page (it changes often). I'm sure that it's the same over at Audioholics as well, if not more so - & they do reviews as well.

IMHO this is wonderful capitalism at work; however, why is it a such a heinous act when Axiom advertises where they choose? There really needs to be more logic, balance & fairness in some of the arguments here...

TAM
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post #64 of 72 Old 01-08-2013, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ex-labdriver View Post

At the moment I look around this AVS page & I see ads from:
Rhythmic
Amazon
Mitsubishi
Panasonic
Epson
Projector People
Cedia
Monoprice
Emotiva
Oppo
Blue Jeans Cable
Cleveland Plasma
HSU
AV Science
Earth Share
AVS Top Picks: Klisch RF 7; BIC PL-200; Polk Audio RTI A9 - all from Amazon
NexLog
That's about 20 per page (it changes often). I'm sure that it's the same over at Audioholics as well, if not more so - & they do reviews as well.
IMHO this is wonderful capitalism at work; however, why is it a such a heinous act when Axiom advertises where they choose? There really needs to be more logic, balance & fairness in some of the arguments here...
TAM

Yeah, but I also don't see AVS moderators doing formal speaker and subwoofer reviews either. Personally, I tend to take overglowing reviews from sites/magazines where the manufacturer spends a lot of advertising dollars with a grain of salt. Too much conflict of interest.
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post #65 of 72 Old 01-08-2013, 06:43 PM
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One of the main reasons I went for axiom is because they are a Canadian company and provide employment right here in our great nation. I avoid Chinese made products as much as I possibly can. It makes no sense to me to send our valuable resources along with our jobs to china only to buy back crappy ,shoddy products. I started out small with m2's, vp100 and qs4's. I kept them for a year or more before moving up to M80's and built my own center channel (similar to a vp 180) using axiom drivers. I have since built a set of 3 way speakers using axiom drivers and my own home designed and built crossovers. Having built some speakers myself I can tell you, its not a cheap proposition and I think axiom has found a decent balance between price ,sound and quality . There Is no such thing as free shipping and that has to be factored in to the price as well. I am no axiom fanboy, I don't go around searching for threads where people are looking for speaker recommendation's and push axiom , I tend only to chime in if someone asks a specific question. Im sorry that they didn't live up to your expectations GT , that's why we have so many speaker manufacturer's, so everyone can find something that suits them. I have heard paradigms that I thought were fantastic and ive heard some that I didn't care for at all , but I think they have a great product as well. The speaker is really only part of the equation, its really about the room. A bad room will kill even the best speakers, and I see this quite often where people move and all of the sudden there system doesn't sound good any more. The only point I wanted to make was that there is no need to attack a product because it didn't suit you, its not like they caught fire and burned the house down (like a ford aerostar LOL) . I go in and out of the axiom forums and the guys there are a great bunch, and I don't think they overhype the brand, they just believe in the product and they are all helpful, and yeah they get a little emotional when axiom gets attacked but for some reason every so often someone pins a target on axioms back. Axiom has had some good reviews over the years and seriously there is only so much you can do with a speaker that hasn't already been done. As for their subs, stay tuned cause it seems they are up to something in laboratory at Axiom .


Richard
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post #66 of 72 Old 01-08-2013, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by ex-labdriver View Post

That's about 20 per page (it changes often). I'm sure that it's the same over at Audioholics as well, if not more so - & they do reviews as well.
IMHO this is wonderful capitalism at work; however, why is it a such a heinous act when Axiom advertises where they choose? There really needs to be more logic, balance & fairness in some of the arguments here...
TAM

Well I've complained and call Audioholics out for the advertiser/review stuff and almost got banned for it several times.

Never said advertising was some kind of heinous act, I said they advertise enough to counter any post I make. You make it seem like I control everything on the forums, I just give my opinion when I feel like it or can offer comments to a thread. I'm not buying advertising banners everywhere saying Axiom sucks lol. I've actually bugged Jon Lane (Arx designer) to pursue reviews and advertise alittle more so I'm not against companies advertising. Thats how I found The Audio Insider in the first place.

What I don't like or care for is when a owner of a product, plus a moderator of a forum that has that same company advertising, doing a formal review. I called him out on a few things before. He reviewed Chase subwoofers, Emotiva subwoofers and a few others and did all kinds of measurements, tore everything apart and made comments about the build quality of each and posted pictures. His EP800 review compared to the others read like a marketing piece with no comments on build quality no measurements (at the time) and no pictures of the internals. To me that smelled a little fishy and never bothered with his reviews again.
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post #67 of 72 Old 01-08-2013, 08:14 PM
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Like it or not - these sites wouldn't exist without advertising. It's true of virtually any product - professional sports, auto mags, golf mags, etc, etc. Is there conflict of interest? Yes I'm sure that there is some; however, I believe more of that LFR review over anything that has been discussed here when an Axiom logo is involved.

You continue to single out Axiom for their advertising (that seems to be quite minimal these days) when it is the industry norm - it's everywhere.

Don't sell yourself short on how much influence that these negative threads have out there. The other day I searched Axiom on our laptop that doesn't have Axiom in its 'Favourites' The first hits were what I was looking for but several hits immediately below pointed to AVS threads & the negativity that is so prevalent here. Anyone that searched out this stuff would have been bombarded with unnecessarily negative posts that surely would turn most people away. You do not realize the major impact that this has & it's just not right.

Judging by the behavior that I see on the forums, it seems that most people who are seeking purchasing advice seem reluctant to do much research on their own, want to be immediately spoon fed on what to buy & have this overwhelming need to have their choice peer approved. Because I'm a fiercely independent thinker, It's not the way that I make major purchases such as speakers - I take the time to research, research & research again (it is so easy now), make the choice, set them up & enjoy. It's really that simple. If problems arise, then seek out help from the experts from the company, here & elsewhere.

I would surmise that one major negative thread such as this one could never be turned positive in many peoples' minds with a hundred glossy ads. Sorry, but many are too easily & quickly influenced one way or the other & want to get on to something else - the instant gratification society...

TAM
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post #68 of 72 Old 01-09-2013, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Socketman View Post

One of the main reasons I went for axiom is because they are a Canadian company and provide employment right here in our great nation. I avoid Chinese made products as much as I possibly can. It makes no sense to me to send our valuable resources along with our jobs to china only to buy back crappy ,shoddy products.

I disagree with that you just assuming Chinese products are crappy shoddy products. The close to a dozen speakers I demo'd the Chinese made ones was of the same or higher quality than the Canadian and USA assembled speakers. Its not where there made its the quality control, final design, components ect.... Its strange theres alot of people out there that bitch about Axioms quality more than a compariable Chinese "shoddy" speaker. Just go to Parts Express forum and search Axiom, you'll see they complain about the quality of Axiom drivers, the crap crossovers, hollow cabinets, comb filtering, ect..... And plenty other forums Emotiva, Ascend, Audioholics, and i'm sure theres others. Ones that I'm not even involved with. The Emotiva thread was great cause the guy stated he didn't like his M80s and though they was horrible. Yet he posted that and then said "I don't care what the Axiom guys say" he was gearing up for a fight from you cause coming in a bombarding him with your opinions are better than his.

Buying Axiom because they are a Canadian Company is one thing (although I think Paradigm and PSB are ahead especially with dealer discounts) Its another to claim because you don't want shoddy Chinese speakers. Don't forget all the Axiom drivers minus subwoofers are made overseas. But you not against that obviously because I've made the claim that I'd like to see higher quality drivers in Axiom products. But yet some of you take issue with feeling those Chinese made drivers are just as good. While the same time saying Chinese stuff is shoddy and crappy, can't have it both ways. rolleyes.gif
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post #69 of 72 Old 01-09-2013, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by ex-labdriver View Post

Judging by the behavior that I see on the forums, it seems that most people who are seeking purchasing advice seem reluctant to do much research on their own, want to be immediately spoon fed on what to buy & have this overwhelming need to have their choice peer approved. Because I'm a fiercely independent thinker, It's not the way that I make major purchases such as speakers - I take the time to research, research & research again (it is so easy now), make the choice, set them up & enjoy. It's really that simple. If problems arise, then seek out help from the experts from the company, here & elsewhere.
I would surmise that one major negative thread such as this one could never be turned positive in many peoples' minds with a hundred glossy ads. Sorry, but many are too easily & quickly influenced one way or the other & want to get on to something else - the instant gratification society...
TAM

I wouldn't throw rocks at people on this forum or others, because you Axiom guys on your forum push Axiom speakers onto people agressively. Not once have I seen you guys suggest that there might be a better choice than a compariable Axiom model. Usually it comes off like "Oh the M2 its perfect for what you want, M3 thats perfect for what you want, M60, M80 on and on and on.

I never see you guys suggest that the poster look at other options like SVS towers or perhaps HSU bookshelfs its always nothing but Axioms and theres nothing else out there. You guys only rave about how great your Axioms are, and make comments how you feel nothing else ofters the same value as Axiom (Klipsch are bright, those are shoddy chinese speakers, those are overpriced) . And when someone suggests that there just might be better choices or just as good options out there you guys gather up your pitch forks and flaming tourches and attack. You guys patrol the forums just looking for a fight and start this stuff up and then you use the cop out that your just here to help.

Axiom doesn't come up here very often anymore nor on Audioholics but it stays going forever when you guys get a bug up your *** and want to pick a fight about 11 month old posts and make your comments that we on AVS and Audioholics are just detractors and haters and that you guys and the only level headed sensible people out there.

Maybe if you just posted your thoughs on your own Axioms and how happy you've been without making the detractor comments and posting that the OP shouldn't listen to anyone that has a negative Axiom comment we would have this thread going on and on and it would have been on the second page or further by now.
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post #70 of 72 Old 01-09-2013, 12:25 PM
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Smaller Axiom drivers are made in Asia under the constant & close supervision of a main factory rep (they rotate in & out) to ensure high quality control of their product. Axiom sub drivers & all cabinetry are made in house at Dwight, ON. In order to control costs, unfortunately most companies have resorted to this kind of business model. In fact my Velodyne subs were completely manufactured over there.

Chad, come on - you don't push ARX's at every opportunity? That's not what we all see here. Again, that's fine as supposedly ARXs are a good product & I surmise that they would be a fine choice for many.

I've never pushed Axioms on anyone - I've provided contrasting opinions, and only very recently here, in order to counter your unending bashing - which of course you continue to vehemently deny. That flies in the face of the myriad of your stuff out there over the past year. I'd really rather not to have to participate in this nonsense, but in the sense of fairness & balance, it needs to be done by someone.

It's obvious that your moral compass and mine are at polar opposites. I strongly believe that unendingly bashing any reputable company is fundamentally wrong - especially one that I doubt has ever harmed you financially or with warranty issues.

You don't see it that way & that is OK; however, it is most disappointing that you will probably continue in this fashion. It really diminishes your overall credibility & over time & detracts from the quality of this forum in general...

I think that this has run its course. ..

Cheers

TAM
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post #71 of 72 Old 01-09-2013, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ex-labdriver View Post

Smaller Axiom drivers are made in Asia under the constant & close supervision of a main factory rep (they rotate in & out) to ensure high quality control of their product. Axiom sub drivers & all cabinetry are made in house at Dwight, ON. In order to control costs, unfortunately most companies have resorted to this kind of business model. In fact my Velodyne subs were completely manufactured over there.
Chad, come on - you don't push ARX's at every opportunity? That's not what we all see here. Again, that's fine as supposedly ARXs are a good product & I surmise that they would be a fine choice for many.
I've never pushed Axioms on anyone - I've provided contrasting opinions, and only very recently here, in order to counter your unending bashing - which of course you continue to vehemently deny. That flies in the face of the myriad of your stuff out there over the past year. I'd really rather not to have to participate in this nonsense, but in the sense of fairness & balance, it needs to be done by someone.
It's obvious that your moral compass and mine are at polar opposites. I strongly believe that unendingly bashing any reputable company is fundamentally wrong - especially one that I doubt has ever harmed you financially or with warranty issues.
You don't see it that way & that is OK; however, it is most disappointing that you will probably continue in this fashion. It really diminishes your overall credibility & over time & detracts from the quality of this forum in general...
I think that this has run its course. ..
Cheers
TAM

I don't have any issue with drivers or speakers being made overseas, Southeast Asia, China ect.... But I don't like the fact that some refer to Chinese stuff as shoddy and crappy while at the same time highly praising their Axiom speakers whose drivers are made Overseas. Other companys have high levels of quality control and supervision. So I took issue with the shoddy comments early. Although not made by you.

Do I push Arx yes, at every opportuntiy NO. I've recommended, HSU, Ascend, HTD, SVS, Rythmik, Seaton, Paradigm, PSB, KEF, Montior Audio, Boston Acoustics, and even Axiom eek.gif The guy was going to get rid of his M60s he loved because he needed bookshelfs, I told him if he loves the Axiom sound and is so far happy then get the M22s and be done with it.

Unending bashing? Really I think it was 6 months or more before this thread go bumped that I mentioned anything about Axiom really. Other than telling the guy to go with the smaller Axioms since he enjoys the Axiom sound. By the way I did mention the Boston Acoustics BT (bigtheater) speakers to him as well since those where made to go into a cabinet. Not a single mention of Arx that I can remember.

Pushing speakers and recommending them is one thing. Its another for you to add a little comment that we here at AVS are detractors and shouldn't be listened to. I take issue with that more than anything. You could have just praised Axiom through the roof and said how pleased you are and none of this would be going on.


Oh and neither one is an idiot LOL Just two drastically different opinions.
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post #72 of 72 Old 01-09-2013, 01:23 PM
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