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View Poll Results: What (in order of preference) is the most important aspect of an audio system?
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Nethawk's Avatar Nethawk
07:32 PM Liked: 115
post #271 of 280
04-06-2012 | Posts: 2,513
Joined: Sep 2001
I'll say this for you ntrain, you have a knack for backing out of your useless bull**** by posing it all as fact and answering every query for proof with another question. You've been outed as ridiculous with outrageously unscientific theory, you've been outed as being untruthful, all of your misinformation has been addressed and refuted, and yet you keep coming back. I'm sure someone, maybe your mother, appreciates you, but it's apparent that nobody here does. Why do you stick around? I'm honestly curious. Is it the attention?
Kal Rubinson's Avatar Kal Rubinson
07:39 PM Liked: 142
post #272 of 280
04-06-2012 | Posts: 28,494
Joined: Mar 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntrain96 View Post

Honestly, there are much more important aspects than worrying about the time domain, frequency response/amplitude is one of them. Id be more worried about having a much tighter +/- frequency response at the listening position before worrying about other aspects of a speakers performance.......

FR eq was assumed. OTOH, effective correction of modal issues requires attention to their decay in the time domain.
Matt34's Avatar Matt34
08:07 PM Liked: 25
post #273 of 280
04-06-2012 | Posts: 675
Joined: Jul 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

I'll say this for you ntrain, you have a knack for backing out of your useless bull**** by posing it all as fact and answering every query for proof with another question. You've been outed as ridiculous with outrageously unscientific theory, you've been outed as being untruthful, all of your misinformation has been addressed and refuted, and yet you keep coming back. I'm sure someone, maybe your mother, appreciates you, but it's apparent that nobody here does. Why do you stick around? I'm honestly curious. Is it the attention?

Is this the same guy that got outed on the Emotiva forum when it was discovered he was ripping people off on a Harley Davidson forum??
Bill Mac's Avatar Bill Mac
08:14 PM Liked: 498
post #274 of 280
04-06-2012 | Posts: 11,591
Joined: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

I'll say this for you ntrain, you have a knack for backing out of your useless bull**** by posing it all as fact and answering every query for proof with another question. You've been outed as ridiculous with outrageously unscientific theory, you've been outed as being untruthful, all of your misinformation has been addressed and refuted, and yet you keep coming back. I'm sure someone, maybe your mother, appreciates you, but it's apparent that nobody here does. Why do you stick around? I'm honestly curious. Is it the attention?

Nethawk,

You really shouldn't hold back as it is best to express your true feelings. Just so you know I agree with your post 100%. The guy is definitely not dealing with any factual information in the least. I'm just surprised that he has not been totally ignored as he really should be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt34 View Post

Is this the same guy that got outed on the Emotiva forum when it was discovered he was ripping people off on a Harley Davidson forum??

I believe he is the same guy. If not he certainly acts the same.

Bill
Jay1's Avatar Jay1
08:22 PM Liked: 102
post #275 of 280
04-06-2012 | Posts: 3,985
Joined: Aug 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntrain96 View Post

Pointsource drivers have the best imaging period. No crossover network means less coloration, no crossover network many times means better power handling and/or efficiency as well. Which is why I am a big fan of only using an active xover system if a xover is needed.

Proof? Just because you state something doesn't actually make it true. How does a speaker with a ragged on axis response, horrid non existent off axis response, and all kinds of IM distortion from producing bass have less coloration?

There are to many examples of high sensitivity, high power handling multi driver speakers to even try to bring that up lmao
kwarny's Avatar kwarny
10:05 PM Liked: 12
post #276 of 280
04-06-2012 | Posts: 291
Joined: Dec 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntrain96 View Post

The decay spec is great, how are the dynamics though? There are always TRADE OFFS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ntrain96 View Post

RAAL tweeters while very nice, don't have the dynamics of some of their hard dome counterparts, and they generally tend to roll off quickly in the top octave even when they are directly on axis. Not necessarily a bad thing as I like ribbon based speakers and drivers, bu the RAAL tweeters would not be my first choice when it comes to a dynamic lively soundting top end.

Some trade offs are bigger than others. How are you defining dynamic? If it is not dynamic; is it due to a memory effect, power compression, or less energy storage? IMO, tweeters and drivers with less energy storage may sound so called less dynamic?

Rolloff is related to the radius of the tweeter. Curtis already corrected the top end roll off. The RAAL also has excellent CD off in the horizontal axis. I would agree with what you said if you enjoy doing squats and jump roping near the speakers. Salk states that the dual ER15 or W18 drivers will be damaged before the RAAL is damaged. That includes their MTM speakers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ntrain96 View Post

Ive heard the RAAL tweeter first hand on a Zu Essense. Flat to 20k it was not. Off axis the response roll off becomes very dramatic. I think there are even a few online reviews with "pro" measurements with similiar results. Regardless, its a good driver, not the best Ive heard though, nor would it be my first choice. One of the best sounding un-EQ'd speakers I've heard with incredible treble came from a pair of Maxxhorn's. Single full range driver, no xover. Incredible detail and dynamics in the treble, solid, detailed smooth bass down to 30hz. All from a single 5" driver.

So you criticize the RAAL above for those features but then a 5" full-range driver is excellent? This larger diameter driver has better high frequency extension than the RAAL tweeter? better off-axis response than a high end tweeter? all while possible suffering from non-perfect BL curve, Le(i), Le(x), CMS(x), IM, and limited power handling since it needs less wire in the motor to extend to the treble region. Full-range drivers do have their advantages though. I enjoyed the Jordan driver when I had a chance. Imaging is one of those as long as there is no excursion. I don't disagree about you enjoying their sound.



I will get back to you on passive versus active crossovers. The Salk employees could not tell a difference when using an A/B switcher when not EQ the bass. Speaking of Salk, they produce a speaker with the Jordan when asked. I plan on asking a few more companies regarding passive versus active.
N8DOGG's Avatar N8DOGG
11:13 PM Liked: 342
post #277 of 280
04-06-2012 | Posts: 5,923
Joined: Dec 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt34 View Post

Is this the same guy that got outed on the Emotiva forum when it was discovered he was ripping people off on a Harley Davidson forum??

O ya it is
NIN74's Avatar NIN74
02:06 AM Liked: 14
post #278 of 280
04-07-2012 | Posts: 3,572
Joined: May 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntrain96 View Post

Well let me ask you this? WHy use say air core inductors over iron core inductors? WHat about sandblocks? WHat happens when they heat up? How about caps? Do you want these items inline at the speaker level? People who are big on "time coherant" speakers........what kind of xovers do these speakers use? Why does any of this matter if passive xovers dont hurt or alter the audio signal?

How about knowing what your talking about?
ntrain96's Avatar ntrain96
05:28 AM Liked: 15
post #279 of 280
04-07-2012 | Posts: 305
Joined: Nov 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

Proof? Just because you state something doesn't actually make it true. How does a speaker with a ragged on axis response, horrid non existent off axis response, and all kinds of IM distortion from producing bass have less coloration?

There are to many examples of high sensitivity, high power handling multi driver speakers to even try to bring that up lmao

Who is to say a good single full range driver is going to have a ragged on/off axis response? Or IM distortion from playing bass frequencies? If you actually HEARD(which you obviously havent)a good point source speaker with both a low Fs and low VC inductance you wouldn't even be quoting this.

Tossing out some of the specs of a ribbon tweeter and what its capable beyond what you can actually hear is great, but the most important driver and frequency range is the MIDRANGE. When you dont have to couple a midrange driver or share midrange frequencies with a xover and a secondary driver that doesnt even disperse the audio wave in the same uniform pattern as your most important driver, you already have a disadvantage in design in many important audio aspects.
kwarny's Avatar kwarny
11:30 AM Liked: 12
post #280 of 280
04-07-2012 | Posts: 291
Joined: Dec 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntrain96 View Post

Who is to say a good single full range driver is going to have a ragged on/off axis response? Or IM distortion from playing bass frequencies? If you actually HEARD(which you obviously havent)a good point source speaker with both a low Fs and low VC inductance you wouldn't even be quoting this.

Tossing out some of the specs of a ribbon tweeter and what its capable beyond what you can actually hear is great, but the most important driver and frequency range is the MIDRANGE. When you dont have to couple a midrange driver or share midrange frequencies with a xover and a secondary driver that doesnt even disperse the audio wave in the same uniform pattern as your most important driver, you already have a disadvantage in design in many important audio aspects.

What part can't most people hear? I don't think anyone said the importance of the RAAL was that it can play past 20 kHz.

Low Fs drivers have lower sensitivity and drivers with low VC inductance have less power handling. Don't forget to factor in BSC when looking at drivers. Didn't you mention earlier, what if you want to play louder? Variations in inductance across excursion will change the frequency response of the driver also.

Seas Prestige FA22RCZ



Seas Prestige FU10RB



Seas Prestige FU10RB



Seas Exotic X1-04 EXOTIC F8



Seas Exotic X1-08 EXOTIC F8



Jordan JX-92S

http://documents.jordan-usa.com/JX92S.pdf

From Zaph Audio.
Comments: Very wide and smooth frequency response. This is a full range driver that actually sounds good run full range with a simple baffle step compensation circuit. When you get 10 degrees off axis however, the high end disappears from beaming. Decent overall performance, but a poor value. A pair of better sounding 2-way systems could be built for the cost of a single JX92S. If you're convinced there's some sort of magic to a full range driver, this is one of the best, far surpassing most others I've come across. Tested March 2008.

RAAL 70-10

http://www.raalribbon.com/images/products/70-10-m.htm

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