Running 2 separate Speakers off a single output (center channel) - Page 13 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #361 of 369 Old 04-05-2012, 04:30 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
craig john's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Lancaster, PA
Posts: 10,225
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

No, I have never portrayed it that way. It would be a rediculous position to take, equally as rediculous as saying the graphs are more important to how things sound to you than your own ears.

If you weren't describing measurements as a crutch needed by people who don't know how to listen, what were you saying here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

I wonder what a graph will say about it? Many in this thread cannot know if they like the way it sounds until they have a graph tell them they like it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

What I said was that it iss silly to use graphs INSTEAD of your ears to determine what sounds better to you. I said this repeatedly. I also repeatedly said I would start with the room correct and then USE MY EARS to finish adjusting to what SOUNDS better to me. I gave the example of changing the db level of the surrounds.

The piece you don't seem to "get" is that, once one has experience with the measurements, one can look at a measurement and pretty much *know* what that measurement will sound like.




Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

Without hearing it, I cannot say which sounds better. Hearing is the key part of sound. If I do not hear it, it does not matter if it sounds like a thousand cats being pulled across a chalkboard with their claws out...I cannot hear it so I do not care.

This ^ is the problem... you have no experience with measurements so the only tool you have is your ears. If you only understood how unreliable your ears are, you would understand the value of measurements. There is no way I could ever tune my system by ear with the precision I can achieve with measurements.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

You never did answer, so I will ask again:

If a graph told you something should sound better but to you it sounds worse, would you keep it the way you like it better, or would you change it to the way you like less due to the graph's results?

Yes, I did answer it. It'll say it again....

Quote:


If I saw a graph that showed that what I "like" does not measure good, I would begin to question whether I could make what I like... BETTER. The approach you've taken is that he graph must be "wrong" because you think it's telling you not to like what you like. Can you not see the fundamental flaw in your approach? The graph is an unbiased measurement of the sound. It is not trying to tell you what to like or dislike. It is giving you information about your system. You can either use that information to try to improve your system, or you can ignore it and blissfully enjoy your flawed system.

Let me put it another way... I use measurements to shape the graph to what I know sounds good. Therefore, I never end up in a situation where I have something that measures good and sounds bad. IOW, I would never encounter the scenario you propose.

Craig

Lombardi said it:
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

My System

craig john is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #362 of 369 Old 04-05-2012, 04:43 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Bill Mac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 11,382
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 385
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Hi Bill,

I have posted the process I went through to achieve that response here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post19446901
and in several ensuing posts. I have updated my system since then, and the most recent version is available in the link in my signature.

Good luck and have fun measuring and improving your system.

Craig

Craig,

Thank you for taking the time to respond and to add all the links. I tried REW with my RS SPL meter to measure my sub and I was able to stumble through the basics. But when I went to do it again I have some setting incorrect somewhere and I gave up. REW is very complex and unfortunately way over my head. I have seen mention of OmniMic several times but it appears to be no longer available at Parts Express. OmniMic looks to be the best choice for me but if it isn't available I'll have to look for something else. I really need a calibration software possibly with an included mic that is really plug and play. Basically something I can't screw up. Thanks again I really appreciate your help!

Bill

My SACD collection, watch it grow and my wallet shrink ;-).

 

Denon 4311 (in preamp mode), Parasound 2100, Boston Acoustics A7200 amp, Oppo BDP-103, Consonance CD120, Panasonic TC-P60GT50 plasma, Panamax 5100EX, Salk Song Towers, Song Center, ADS 300C (surrounds) and two Rythmik F12SEs.
Bill Mac is offline  
post #363 of 369 Old 04-05-2012, 04:45 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Nethawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,513
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 114
What we hear is science, what we listen to is a preference. While there is a happy medium, until you understand this you will not be able to absorb what people are trying to teach you in this conversation.

Nethawk is offline  
post #364 of 369 Old 04-05-2012, 04:54 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
craig john's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Lancaster, PA
Posts: 10,225
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Craig,

Thank you for taking the time to respond and to add all the links. I tried REW with my RS SPL meter to measure my sub and I was able to stumble through the basics. But when I went to do it again I have some setting incorrect somewhere and I gave up. REW is very complex and unfortunately way over my head. I have seen mention of OmniMic several times but it appears to be no longer available at Parts Express. OmniMic looks to be the best choice for me but if it isn't available I'll have to look for something else. I really need a calibration software possibly with an included mic that is really plug and play. Basically something I can't screw up. Thanks again I really appreciate your help!

Bill

I posted the wrong link for OmniMic. That was Version1. Version2 is now available:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=390-792

Both OnmiMic are plug-n-play, very easy to set up and use. XTZ generates it's own test tones. OmniMic uses tones from a CD. They're both very easy and intuitive to learn.

Craig

Lombardi said it:
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

My System

craig john is offline  
post #365 of 369 Old 04-05-2012, 06:13 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Bill Mac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 11,382
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 385
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

I posted the wrong link for OmniMic. That was Version1. Version2 is now available:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=390-792

Both OnmiMic are plug-n-play, very easy to set up and use. XTZ generates it's own test tones. OmniMic uses tones from a CD. They're both very easy and intuitive to learn.

Craig

Craig,

Thanks once again! Maybe XTZ might be the one as it costs about $100.00 less.

Bill

My SACD collection, watch it grow and my wallet shrink ;-).

 

Denon 4311 (in preamp mode), Parasound 2100, Boston Acoustics A7200 amp, Oppo BDP-103, Consonance CD120, Panasonic TC-P60GT50 plasma, Panamax 5100EX, Salk Song Towers, Song Center, ADS 300C (surrounds) and two Rythmik F12SEs.
Bill Mac is offline  
post #366 of 369 Old 04-06-2012, 10:12 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
craig john's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Lancaster, PA
Posts: 10,225
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Craig,

Thanks once again! Maybe XTZ might be the one as it costs about $100.00 less.

Bill

Hi Bill,

XTZ Room Analyzer is a great program. The cheaper version is less full-featured, but it's still a great tool. You can see a comparison of the two versions here:
http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/XTZ...Fcqa7QodM1NLZw

It's idiot-proof in terms of installation and set up. You can be up and measuring in minutes.

If you go with XTZ, you'll be on your way to a better sounding system.

Craig

Lombardi said it:
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

My System

craig john is offline  
post #367 of 369 Old 03-30-2013, 06:48 PM
 
cybrsage's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Posts: 8,074
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 147
Wow, apparently Craig is STILL all upset that I do not change what I actually hear to what he demands that I hear. He is referencing this ancient thread in other threads. Craig, get over yourself and realize that science cannot explain preference and no amount of graphs will convince me that I am wrong in liking the way something sounds. You can feel free to say "I love the way this sounds...oh no, the graph says I should not...I hate the way this sounds now!", and that is your prerogative...but do not demand others so easily cast aside their real world experience for your graphs.
cybrsage is offline  
post #368 of 369 Old 03-30-2013, 07:18 PM
Advanced Member
 
wlhungdude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Jonesborough, TN
Posts: 556
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 53
you resurrected this thread for that? We get it... you really like your Axiom's. Good for you. Have a great day. smile.gif

...what a long, strange trip its been.
wlhungdude is offline  
post #369 of 369 Old 03-30-2013, 07:59 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Yosh70's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sask. Canada
Posts: 2,018
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

realize that science cannot explain preference and no amount of graphs will convince me that I am wrong in liking the way something sounds.

You should PM the owners of this site and get them to change the name to just AV.....the S is not needed since your eyes and ears are all you really need.

I deleted the useless portion from your post......try to refrain from posting such nonsense.

Thanks.
Yosh70 is offline  
Reply Speakers

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off