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post #1 of 35 Old 03-27-2012, 01:15 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm currently using five B&W M1's and Emotiva Ultra 12 in 5.1.
-5.1 setup in living room where movies are watched (15' x 10' ish)
-Kitchen/dining open to living room (15' x 20' ish)
-We play music to listen to in the whole house, biggest reason for the upgrade

I'd like to fill the air better. The M1s don't fill the space so well when I'm outside of the living room. Just looking for more output.

Choices are limited to on-walls as we want to keep floor space and utilize vertical space to be efficient with our small home. Looking to replace the fronts, but the best help would be to suggest two on-walls for left and right with a matching traditional fat center channel, as it can sit on the short entertainment center we have.

I'm not looking for the flattest speakers; anything less than 7" from the wall will do. I'd like 4"+ drivers to really get the most out of an upgrade from the M1s. Budget right now is anywhere between $500 and $3000. I don't like paying for name-brand premium so much, but they need to look decent, as they will be a lifestyle speaker.

Speakers I've considered so far:

-B&W FPM6
-Home Theater Direct Flat Panel Speaker
-Definitive Technology Mythos 10
-Axiom M22 v3
-Paradigm Millennia 30

They're basically all top of the line in their respective series, since I'd like the most robust on-wall I can find, while not paying too much.

In summary, I'm looking for an on-wall for L(C)R with value, volume output, style, and brand reliability/product line-up if I ever want to upgrade in the future and keep the same tone.

Many thanks! Sorry the long post.
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post #2 of 35 Old 03-27-2012, 02:05 AM
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Have a look at what Triad has to offer.

http://www.triadspeakers.com/products/owblcr.html#tab1


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post #3 of 35 Old 03-27-2012, 10:08 AM
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Check out the JBL L820. Amazon has them for around $400 per pair and they are 5" deep wall-mounted. They are a 4-way system with 6' drivers and will give you a heck of a lot more sound than those baby M1s. They also are very nice-looking with the grilles in place.

I would suggest that you get four of the L820s plus a JBL LC2 center speaker; Total cost about $1300.

Put $900 into a Rythmic F12 subwoofer, and you should be in business (or maybe buy a second Emotiva sub ...).




Quote:
Originally Posted by dctrombly View Post

I'm currently using five B&W M1's and Emotiva Ultra 12 in 5.1.
-5.1 setup in living room where movies are watched (15' x 10' ish)
-Kitchen/dining open to living room (15' x 20' ish)
-We play music to listen to in the whole house, biggest reason for the upgrade

I'd like to fill the air better. The M1s don't fill the space so well when I'm outside of the living room. Just looking for more output.

Choices are limited to on-walls as we want to keep floor space and utilize vertical space to be efficient with our small home. Looking to replace the fronts, but the best help would be to suggest two on-walls for left and right with a matching traditional fat center channel, as it can sit on the short entertainment center we have.

I'm not looking for the flattest speakers; anything less than 7" from the wall will do. I'd like 4"+ drivers to really get the most out of an upgrade from the M1s. Budget right now is anywhere between $500 and $3000. I don't like paying for name-brand premium so much, but they need to look decent, as they will be a lifestyle speaker.

Speakers I've considered so far:

-B&W FPM6
-Home Theater Direct Flat Panel Speaker
-Definitive Technology Mythos 10
-Axiom M22 v3
-Paradigm Millennia 30

They're basically all top of the line in their respective series, since I'd like the most robust on-wall I can find, while not paying too much.

In summary, I'm looking for an on-wall for L(C)R with value, volume output, style, and brand reliability/product line-up if I ever want to upgrade in the future and keep the same tone.

Many thanks! Sorry the long post.

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post #4 of 35 Old 03-27-2012, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ifor View Post

Have a look at what Triad has to offer.

http://www.triadspeakers.com/products/owblcr.html#tab1

+2. This would be my first choice. Hopefully in budget, and you definitely will want a subwoofer.
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post #5 of 35 Old 03-27-2012, 11:09 AM - Thread Starter
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The Triad Bronze LCR OnWalls look perfect for the job. I will most definitely check those out! Too bad they're dealer only, makes it a bit more difficult to make a purchase.

The JBL looks pretty good too, but they don't exactly fit the bill on looks. It's too bad I can't get past that as a requirement.

Overall, I wish these types of speakers were more popular. It's a bit difficult to find good information.
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post #6 of 35 Old 03-27-2012, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dctrombly View Post

The Triad Bronze LCR OnWalls look perfect for the job. I will most definitely check those out! Too bad they're dealer only, makes it a bit more difficult to make a purchase.

The JBL looks pretty good too, but they don't exactly fit the bill on looks. It's too bad I can't get past that as a requirement.

Overall, I wish these types of speakers were more popular. It's a bit difficult to find good information.

I am not sure what happens if you order a custom size. You may be able to place your order directly with Triad, but I don't know. Give them a call.
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post #7 of 35 Old 03-27-2012, 01:49 PM
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Here ya go-
http://www.martinlogan.com/efx/index.php

Or these for just a "little" less
http://www.martinlogan.com/motionSer...ultra-slim.php

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post #8 of 35 Old 03-27-2012, 02:12 PM
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For the low end of your budget range and something smaller, the NHT Absolute Wall Speaker.

Your questions are answered:
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post #9 of 35 Old 03-27-2012, 06:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Can anyone tell me if there's a clear winner between B&W FPM6 and the Triad Bronze OnWall?

I have the option to get the B&W for a significant discount I believe ($400 per speaker for 2) but I'm looking at the Triads if they're better.

B&W FPM6
Triad Bronze OnWall

Again, I'm looking for LCR for 50% HT, 50% music, overall more sound output, reliability. Thanks.
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post #10 of 35 Old 03-27-2012, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dctrombly View Post

Can anyone tell me if there's a clear winner between B&W FPM6 and the Triad Bronze OnWall?

I have the option to get the B&W for a significant discount I believe ($400 per speaker for 2) but I'm looking at the Triads if they're better.

B&W FPM6
Triad Bronze OnWall

Again, I'm looking for LCR for 50% HT, 50% music, overall more sound output, reliability. Thanks.

I can't speak for these on-wall speakers, but for in room and in-wall speakers there is no competition. Triad all the way.
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post #11 of 35 Old 03-27-2012, 08:37 PM
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I have sold and listened to most of the Triad line and the bronze on walls are really, really good speakers.
If you call them, they will direct you to your closest rep. Who will them direct you to the closest dealer.

You can get custom sizing on them but you will save money if you are fine with their standard size.


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post #12 of 35 Old 03-27-2012, 11:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Well then I'm sold on the triads. A few raving reviews is all I need. Sounds like I'll get amazing service along with an amazing product. If I remember then I'll come back with impressions but, more than likely, it'll be a while. I like to keep an eye out for second hand/refurbs before I head out for retail.
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post #13 of 35 Old 03-28-2012, 03:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Best price I can get for...

(2) Bronze OnWall LCR for L and R
(1) Bronze InRoom LCR for Center
(2) Bronze OnWall Surround for side/rear surround

...is about $2,500.

This is pushing the limit (quite) a bit so I was wondering what kind of used/refurbished markets there were? I know about Craigslist, eBay, and Audiogon. Are there others here or elsewhere that could be selling these for cheaper?

There are used LCRs but I've only found bundles and I only need one. I'm pretty sold on the OnWalls also. Can (should?) InRoom LCRs be mounted on the sides of the TV? They're about half the price of OnWalls for the same performance; just can't get over the style on OnWalls. lol
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post #14 of 35 Old 03-28-2012, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dctrombly View Post

Best price I can get for...

(2) Bronze OnWall LCR for L and R
(1) Bronze InRoom LCR for Center
(2) Bronze OnWall Surround for side/rear surround

...is about $2,500.

This is pushing the limit (quite) a bit so I was wondering what kind of used/refurbished markets there were? I know about Craigslist, eBay, and Audiogon. Are there others here or elsewhere that could be selling these for cheaper?

On Ebay
http://www.ebay.com/sch/Home-Audio-/...TRIAD+SPEAKERS

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post #15 of 35 Old 03-28-2012, 03:56 PM
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These JBL CBT100LA-1's would be at the top of my list for a shallow wall mount speaker. Completely uniform sound coverage, and high output capability. 3 would run you about $2200.


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post #16 of 35 Old 03-28-2012, 04:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

On Ebay
http://www.ebay.com/sch/Home-Audio-/...TRIAD+SPEAKERS

Yes, I saw these. Thanks though.

"There are used LCRs but I've only found bundles and I only need one." (center channel)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

These JBL CBT100LA-1's would be at the top of my list for a shallow wall mount speaker. Completely uniform sound coverage, and high output capability. 3 would run you about $2200.

I can't imagine these sounding so great for theater. It's a bunch of 2 inch drivers? Specs are misleading. I'm sure they're loud at whatever they put out though.
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post #17 of 35 Old 03-28-2012, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dctrombly View Post

I'm currently using five B&W M1's and Emotiva Ultra 12 in 5.1.
-5.1 setup in living room where movies are watched (15' x 10' ish)
-Kitchen/dining open to living room (15' x 20' ish)
-We play music to listen to in the whole house, biggest reason for the upgrade

I'd like to fill the air better. The M1s don't fill the space so well when I'm outside of the living room. Just looking for more output.

Choices are limited to on-walls as we want to keep floor space and utilize vertical space to be efficient with our small home. Looking to replace the fronts, but the best help would be to suggest two on-walls for left and right with a matching traditional fat center channel, as it can sit on the short entertainment center we have.

I'm not looking for the flattest speakers; anything less than 7" from the wall will do. I'd like 4"+ drivers to really get the most out of an upgrade from the M1s. Budget right now is anywhere between $500 and $3000. I don't like paying for name-brand premium so much, but they need to look decent, as they will be a lifestyle speaker.

Speakers I've considered so far:

-B&W FPM6
-Home Theater Direct Flat Panel Speaker
-Definitive Technology Mythos 10
-Axiom M22 v3
-Paradigm Millennia 30

They're basically all top of the line in their respective series, since I'd like the most robust on-wall I can find, while not paying too much.

In summary, I'm looking for an on-wall for L(C)R with value, volume output, style, and brand reliability/product line-up if I ever want to upgrade in the future and keep the same tone.

Many thanks! Sorry the long post.

Take a look at Triad, Atlantic Technology and Klipsch. Klipsch has a new Gallery series that they just brought out.
http://www.klipsch.com/flat-panel-speakers
http://www.atlantictechnology.com/de...alse&NodeId=22
http://www.triadspeakers.com/products/owblcr.html
If you want room filling sound the Klipsch have the higher sensitivity.

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post #18 of 35 Old 03-28-2012, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dctrombly View Post

Best price I can get for...

(2) Bronze OnWall LCR for L and R
(1) Bronze InRoom LCR for Center
(2) Bronze OnWall Surround for side/rear surround

...is about $2,500.

This is pushing the limit (quite) a bit so I was wondering what kind of used/refurbished markets there were? I know about Craigslist, eBay, and Audiogon. Are there others here or elsewhere that could be selling these for cheaper?

There are used LCRs but I've only found bundles and I only need one. I'm pretty sold on the OnWalls also. Can (should?) InRoom LCRs be mounted on the sides of the TV? They're about half the price of OnWalls for the same performance; just can't get over the style on OnWalls. lol

You can swap out the bronze lcr on-walls for mini lcr on-walls for the same price as the in-room bronze lcr. But you would be sacrificing dynamic range, volume and frequency response for a cheaper price. I would suggest getting the fronts for now and getting the rears at little later as you budget allows.

But I also wouldn't mount in-room speakers to the wall as the crossover wasn't designed for such nearfield placement. You can always do it, but I also think that they wouldn't look nor sound as good as the on-walls.


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post #19 of 35 Old 03-28-2012, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dctrombly View Post


Yes, I saw these. Thanks though.

"There are used LCRs but I've only found bundles and I only need one." (center channel)

I can't imagine these sounding so great for theater. It's a bunch of 2 inch drivers? Specs are misleading. I'm sure they're loud at whatever they put out though.

Lol so the jbl pro speaker with more posted measurements then I care to count is misleading? It's a controlled directivity line array with 2" full range drivers, and it is thoroughly engineered to do exactly what the published specs/measurements show.

There isn't any hyperbole to speak of. Jbl pro is not the same as their home products, do some research.


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post #20 of 35 Old 03-28-2012, 05:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ifor View Post

You can swap out the bronze lcr on-walls for mini lcr on-walls for the same price as the in-room bronze lcr. But you would be sacrificing dynamic range, volume and frequency response for a cheaper price. I would suggest getting the fronts for now and getting the rears at little later as you budget allows.

But I also wouldn't mount in-room speakers to the wall as the crossover wasn't designed for such nearfield placement. You can always do it, but I also think that they wouldn't look nor sound as good as the on-walls.

The wife says the InRooms (~10" D) would stick out too far, and she doesn't want stands, and I'm not really inclined to argue with that; so those are out.

I think I'd regret getting the Mini vs regular OnWall Bronzes so I don't want to risk that.

For some reason I never considered getting surrounds later, but that's probably the best idea. The surrounds face inward toward the movie listening position, whereas the front face the whole open dining/living/kitchen room, which was my initial reason for purchase (music volume output).

Thanks for all the input, guys!
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post #21 of 35 Old 03-28-2012, 05:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Lol so the jbl pro speaker with more posted measurements then I care to count is misleading? It's a controlled directivity line array with 2" full range drivers, and it is thoroughly engineered to do exactly what the published specs/measurements show.

There isn't any hyperbole to speak of. Jbl pro is not the same as their home products, do some research.

What I meant was that they're listed to go to 80Hz but that's at -10db. I'm pretty sure the industry standard is -3db? There's absolutely no low-end coming out of 2-inch drivers. Just doesn't seem like I would be getting a uniform sound at all.
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post #22 of 35 Old 03-28-2012, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dctrombly View Post

What I meant was that they're listed to go to 80Hz but that's at -10db. I'm pretty sure the industry standard is -3db? There's absolutely no low-end coming out of 2-inch drivers. Just doesn't seem like I would be getting a uniform sound at all.

Mounting a speaker to a wall reinforces the bass response. I don't think you understand what uniform sound means, or how ragged in room response is of every speaker system below 200hz. Bass is a result of cone area and excursion, 16 of these 2" drivers is sufficient to reach 115db continuous for the stated response.

When you are still not satisfied with the "whole house" sound you're getting from those Triads, come back to this thread and take another look at those JBL's.


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post #23 of 35 Old 03-28-2012, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

These JBL CBT100LA-1's would be at the top of my list for a shallow wall mount speaker. Completely uniform sound coverage, and high output capability. 3 would run you about $2200.

The JBL CBTs are a good speaker for it's proper application.

Although if you look at the freq response, it rolls off steeply at around 108 Hz which would bring localization to a subwoofer if you ran it that high. You also have to look at the vertical and horizontal resonse as well.
When vertically placed, the horizintal off-axis freq response is great, but if you want to place the same speaker horzontally, say as a center, the horizontal response is really horrible which means that the center would be good for 1 person sitting dead center of it. At the upper freq, it drops more than 20 db at 10 degrees off center in the narrow setting, which is drastic to say the least. In the broad setting it still drops off 10 dB at the same 10 degrees off-axis.

You would have to mount all 3 LCRs vertically to get the benefit of the CBT and then you would still have to direct them directly at the listening position. It is not a very friendly speaker for home use.


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post #24 of 35 Old 03-28-2012, 09:42 PM
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You also have to factor in the array being 40", and mounted on a wall. That can completely cover you sitting and standing if you place it right. I agree that 3 vertical arrays would be ideal, as would any standard mtm. "Broad/music" is the only setting that should be considered. It's nice to compare these measurements to the other speakers being considered isn't it, oh wait

Show me a speaker that doesn't drop drastically at the upper frequencies off axis?


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post #25 of 35 Old 03-28-2012, 11:13 PM
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I myself am using a JBL Pro coaxial driver and crossover inside a custom made MDF cabinet to create a wide dispersion speaker.

The sound doesn't alter very much if I move around the room and it also has the benefit of being very efficient as well as having high output of 118 dB from a single 6.5" driver with a HF compression driver. But I also am not wall mounting them so...


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post #26 of 35 Old 03-28-2012, 11:20 PM - Thread Starter
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The conversation is going over my head now.

I'm sold on Triad right now. I love the simple naming of their entire product line. It makes it very simple to know what's better or worse when time for an upgrade. Seems like a very transparent company, which should be true of any business IMO.

Gonna head out to my local Triad dealer and have a listen.
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post #27 of 35 Old 03-28-2012, 11:29 PM
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fyi, they also will paint match at no extra charge, if you want to paint them to match your walls if you want.

Where are you located? If you don't mind me asking.


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post #28 of 35 Old 03-29-2012, 12:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YaganaWcott View Post

They also are very nice-looking with the grilles in place.

[img]http://www.*****************/song3.jpg[/img][img]http://www.*****************/song2.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.*************/1.jpg[/img]

I see no pics.


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post #29 of 35 Old 03-29-2012, 03:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YaganaWcott View Post

They also are very nice-looking with the grilles in place.

[img]http://www.*****************/song3.jpg[/img][img]http://www.*****************/song2.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.*************/1.jpg[/img]

I'm interested in what you were trying to show, but the pictures aren't showing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ifor View Post

Where are you located? If you don't mind me asking.

I'm in Lake Orion, MI. I like the look of traditional black. I've always thought that speakers should be black.
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post #30 of 35 Old 03-31-2012, 08:53 AM
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Also look at Magnepan speakers. I never owned a pair but the boys on Audiogon speak very highly of them. The new martinLogan EFX looks interesting too.
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