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post #61 of 95 Old 04-15-2012, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Mantis10 View Post

O and for the sheer hell of it , I suggest checking out Totem. They fall into this shootout very nicely. You might actually be surprised on what you bring home. Small bookshelf speakers is something they do better then just about everyone else. They have models that are very small but sound huge.
Check them out man , worth your time.

interesting you mention Totem. they do make nice speakers and before I got the Excites I spent time comparing the Sttafs and X16s and Dali Ikon 2s together at the same audition. I actually heard them all 2 times together. Then only the Sttafs and Excites. The last time I went to that dealer I got the Excites, not the Sttafs.

Funny thing at the first audition I liked the Staffs the best, and the Excites the least. At the second audition, I knew the Ikons werent for me, and had trouble deciding whether I liked the X16s or Sttafs more. When I went back to hear both again, I still felt the Sttafs were excellent speakers, but the X16s started to win me over, and I liked them more coming out of that audition then I did the Sttafs. In the end, the Excites I felt were better HT speakers as well, which was the deciding factor in the end.

However I have been thinking of replacing the surrounds I have, and Totem, Focal, Dali, Dynaudio DM 2/6s and Monitor Audio are all ones that I was thinking of, that way i could rotate speakers once in a while, perhaps it would help to fight the upgrade urges.

but like you said, audition, find what you like works the best for you.

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post #62 of 95 Old 04-15-2012, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Mantis10 View Post

Both Paradigm and Dynaudio make high quality speakers. You can say Dynaudio is a much higher end company as they offer speakers in much higher price brackets.

Paradigm has been making quality speakers for a very long time and earned great respect in our Industry. They have a following and rightfully so.

Dynaudio can be argued as the best hands down speaker company in the world. I can support that as the very best sounding 2 channel rig I ever heard , Installed had Dynaudio speakers.

Personally I like Dynaudio over Paradigm. I like the way Dynaudio sound. paradigm I've tried so hard to like and I haven't found a pair I would put in my system. I've owned Dynaudio speakers and would again , actually I probably will. I swap out my system every few years or until I want something else.

Going and comparing these 2 models you are looking at need to be decided by listening yourself. You really can't go wrong either way. As much as I like Dynaudio , I think Paradigm has some real value IF you like the way they sound. Honestly think they are overpriced for what you get but thats a personal opinion and should be treated as such. I find much more value in Dynaudio as they have a way of sucking you into the sound , I have so many times just sat there and listened to the music and got lost in the moment. Paradigm never did that for me and I've been Installing them for years.
The brand new Monitor series are the best ever. I think they sound much better then the last few versions. They sport a new look and new drivers. Pretty nice but I still wouldn't take them home.

I wish you luck.

Mantis, I'm going to leave your post intact...so as not to take anything out of context...but I'm going to focus on this bolded section. Not unlike many who will read this post, I've been in this hobby for many years. It's funny, how along the way...as you age, grow...try a lot of gear...and in the end, really get an understanding of what's important and what's not, how your perception changes.

I am at a point where I find what you said about Dyns, to be so true of most things I am looking for in my system. There's no question that sometimes what's the "brightest", or most "aggressive"...gets our attention. Hell, it's a known trick, when they're selling TVs...to crank up Brightness, Color, Contrast, Detail, etc; that's what gets most people's attention, and that's what seems "best".

I think the same can be said with speakers, to a certain degree. I agree with the general consensus of your post; Paradigm is a fine product, and offers good bang for the buck. But IMO, it's sound is not like Dynaudio at all; rather, it is pretty bright, and forward. Now...some might listen to them side-by-side, and find the Dyn to be "neutral", "laid-back"...to put it nicely; or "boring", to not...lol. But IMO...over time...you don't want the brightest, or most "aggressive"; you truly don't want it in a TV (in fact, almost ALL calibration programs...and even just owner's manuals...will warn of the retail trick, and advise you to start by just bringing everything down several notches), because while it might "pop"...it's just not accurate.

I find the same to be true with speakers. That bright sound; that aggressive presentation (forward)...it's just not musical, and IMO...over time...becomes fatiguing. In fact, as crazy as it may seem, I think any system that draws too much attention...to any one thing; is probably a system out of balance, and not very accurate or musical at all.

Just my .02

CD

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post #63 of 95 Old 04-15-2012, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post

Mantis, I'm going to leave your post intact...so as not to take anything out of context...but I'm going to focus on this bolded section. Not unlike many who will read this post, I've been in this hobby for many years. It's funny, how along the way...as you age, grow...try a lot of gear...and in the end, really get an understanding of what's important and what's not, how your perception changes.

I am at a point where I find what you said about Dyns, to be so true of most things I am looking for in my system. There's no question that sometimes what's the "brightest", or most "aggressive"...gets our attention. Hell, it's a known trick, when they're selling TVs...to crank up Brightness, Color, Contrast, Detail, etc; that's what gets most people's attention, and that's what seems "best".

I think the same can be said with speakers, to a certain degree. I agree with the general consensus of your post; Paradigm is a fine product, and offers good bang for the buck. But IMO, it's sound is not like Dynaudio at all; rather, it is pretty bright, and forward. Now...some might listen to them side-by-side, and find the Dyn to be "neutral", "laid-back"...to put it nicely; or "boring", to not...lol. But IMO...over time...you don't want the brightest, or most "aggressive"; you truly don't want it in a TV (in fact, almost ALL calibration programs...and even just owner's manuals...will warn of the retail trick, and advise you to start by just bringing everything down several notches), because while it might "pop"...it's just not accurate.

I find the same to be true with speakers. That bright sound; that aggressive presentation (forward)...it's just not musical, and IMO...over time...becomes fatiguing. In fact, as crazy as it may seem, I think any system that draws too much attention...to any one thing; is probably a system out of balance, and not very accurate or musical at all.

Just my .02

CD

well, Ill play devils advocate. There are dynaudio owners that find the excites and s1.4s boring. they still prefer the more aggressive sound of consequence, sapphires, focus and dms over the other lines. So likewise others might like the paradigms or focals or monitor audios of the world more then dynaudios. Also, people view bright at different degrees.

I like a speaker thats fairly linear and neutral, but i like a little warmth and chunkiness, thus the Excites are good for me. On the contrary, the s3.4s, I find that they are too neutral and far to linear of a speaker to get me excited. I find rock music too soft and rolled off for my tastes. Puma Cat will think Im crazy, stupid or whatever, but they dont move me at all.

so again, its all about preference.

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post #64 of 95 Old 04-15-2012, 11:18 AM
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For someone to suggest that the sound of paradigm is like the tactic used by tv manufacturers to be the brightest and stand out the most has to be one of the biggest crocks of crap I've read on here. Seriously? You might as well have called paradigm the samsung of the audio world.

If we all were to go out and purchase a classic car today, than we would all come home with different cars. Its called personal preference. To say you have got lost in the music with dynaudio and hint that this might not be true for paradigm owners is also crap.

How many people here seem to know how a speaker should sound with no regard as to how instruments really sound? Instruments and musical passages can be bright. If you want a speaker to colour the sound and not be bright than that is a personal preference. Myself I like to hear what the instruments really sound like. Lots of people have no idea of the difference from a crash cymbal to a splash cymbal or to a thin crash.

Can a trumpet not be bright among many other instruments? Do people here know more of what sound should be like as opposed to musicians themselves or what instruments really sound like or even a live concert or the venue its played in.

We @ avs would make lousy reviewers as we are all to busy pushing speakers we own, We all seem to be biased towards our own products and I guess that is natural. But please do not embelish something so the op will go out and purchase the brand that you own.

I think some people should get off the couch and go out into the real world and listen to some instruments before telling people that their brand portrays the real experiance of what it should sound like.
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post #65 of 95 Old 04-15-2012, 11:31 AM
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Sound is subjective. It is also affected by many variables.

Go out and audition what you can. Check out Monitor Audio as well as Paradigm and Dynaudio. Buy what you like.
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post #66 of 95 Old 04-15-2012, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by GTaudiophile View Post

Sound is subjective. It is also affected by many variables.

Go out and audition what you can. Check out Monitor Audio as well as Paradigm and Dynaudio. Buy what you like.

Exactly! I can never understand how someone can recommend a particular speaker to someone else. Go out and listen to some and get what turns you on the most.

I myself like a touch of warmth to my speakers. I like and own monitors from PSB, Monitor Audio and the DM range of Dynaudio.

I didn't like the sound of X16 Excites or Paradigm Studios because to me they lack that touch of warmth.

But each to their own. The next guy may well prefer that more clinical sound.
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post #67 of 95 Old 04-15-2012, 01:10 PM
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For someone to suggest that the sound of paradigm is like the tactic used by tv manufacturers to be the brightest and stand out the most has to be one of the biggest crocks of crap I've read on here. Seriously? You might as well have called paradigm the samsung of the audio world.

If we all were to go out and purchase a classic car today, than we would all come home with different cars. Its called personal preference. To say you have got lost in the music with dynaudio and hint that this might not be true for paradigm owners is also crap.

How many people here seem to know how a speaker should sound with no regard as to how instruments really sound? Instruments and musical passages can be bright. If you want a speaker to colour the sound and not be bright than that is a personal preference. Myself I like to hear what the instruments really sound like. Lots of people have no idea of the difference from a crash cymbal to a splash cymbal or to a thin crash.

Can a trumpet not be bright among many other instruments? Do people here know more of what sound should be like as opposed to musicians themselves or what instruments really sound like or even a live concert or the venue its played in.

We @ avs would make lousy reviewers as we are all to busy pushing speakers we own, We all seem to be biased towards our own products and I guess that is natural. But please do not embelish something so the op will go out and purchase the brand that you own.

I think some people should get off the couch and go out into the real world and listen to some instruments before telling people that their brand portrays the real experiance of what it should sound like.

Wow, John; sorry I seem to have really ruffled your feathers. First of all, if you knew my posting history...and I understand there's no reason you should...you'll see I'm on record...many, many times...as saying anyone who recommends any component...much less speakers...without first asking some questions about the OPs tastes, budget, etc...is simply tasting a preference for what they like, rather than what the OP would.

Two...I don't believe I was disparaging about Paradigm at all. In fact, I think I went out of my way to say "Paradigm is a fine product, and offers good bang for the buck". I did say...compared to Dynaudio...I find them to be bright and forward; just my opinion...do you disagree...and do you find it to be such damning praise?

The other analogy was more of a generalization; about how bright and forward can sound exciting, but be fatiguing and inaccurate...as opposed to neutral maybe coming across a bit boring, but being less fatiguing (and yes, IMO...more "accurate").

I didn't think I did, nor did I mean to condemn Paradigm. I obviously struck a nerve.

P.S. Why torpedo Samsung like that?

CD

Music is a moral law. It gives soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and charm and gaiety to life and to everything. -Plato
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post #68 of 95 Old 04-15-2012, 03:28 PM
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Alot of what we say here is all imo. This applies to us, reviewers, dealers, and manufacturers. point in case, you say paradigm is bright and dynaudio is neutral.
I would class paradigm as having a neutral sound, imo, as paradigm has also described it's product as neutral, and the dealer where I bought them and some reviewers. If someone asked my opinion are paradigms neutral, Yes. If they then asked if they lean toward the bright side of neutral, yes. So in the end its all imo.

I'm no expert by any means, but I have been around a few instruments in my time and In my house I find paradigm to give the Instruments a life like sound. Sometimes someone will ask about will ask about 2 speakers just as they have here, 1, it would be if they like the sound of either speaker discussed here and 2, it might depend on the op,s situation. The op might have a room which is in an open concept area, blinds, hardwood, and leather, and maybe a warmer sounding neutral speaker might be best as opposed to a different room. Hope that makes sense.

In the end you say dynaudio is neutral, I say paradigm is neutral. Are we both wrong, are we both right, is one of us right, depends on who you ask? or what day it is. Do either of us have any valid scientific prove?

And about samsung, I have owned their tvs, and bluray machines and have had problems with every single one, 2 tv's and 3 bluray players and in the end I researched alot of the problems with their products only to find an incredable amount of people having issues with samsung products, just like when I researched my cable company and their cable box. In that respect I do believe I have the right to voice my opinion. I know every manufacturer goes through a spurt like this and can generally help the better companies out as they will improve upon their product to survive in the competative markets of today.

I also hope I did not offend you as that is not my intent and if I did then I do apologize. I must go now as i'm out of breath from our conversation.

Have a good night :P
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post #69 of 95 Old 04-15-2012, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post

Wow, John; sorry I seem to have really ruffled your feathers. First of all, if you knew my posting history...and I understand there's no reason you should...you'll see I'm on record...many, many times...as saying anyone who recommends any component...much less speakers...without first asking some questions about the OPs tastes, budget, etc...is simply tasting a preference for what they like, rather than what the OP would.

Two...I don't believe I was disparaging about Paradigm at all. In fact, I think I went out of my way to say "Paradigm is a fine product, and offers good bang for the buck". I did say...compared to Dynaudio...I find them to be bright and forward; just my opinion...do you disagree...and do you find it to be such damning praise?

The other analogy was more of a generalization; about how bright and forward can sound exciting, but be fatiguing and inaccurate...as opposed to neutral maybe coming across a bit boring, but being less fatiguing (and yes, IMO...more "accurate").

I didn't think I did, nor did I mean to condemn Paradigm. I obviously struck a nerve.

P.S. Why torpedo Samsung like that?

CD

CD, IMO the new series of Paradigm is a little to detailed (bright) for my tastes. OTH, Most Dyns to me are harsh (more bright). My first Dyn audition was the Audience. I thought they were thin and clinical. The Focus was too bassy and almost boomy. The Xcite line does nothing exciting for me. The S3.4 is very harsh and fatiguing. The Special 25 and S1.4 are two Dyns that I really like and will likely own. The C1 is also a favorite of mine.
IMO the PSB Image T5, Focal chorus series (book shelf or tower) beat the Dyns in their respective price range.
I also sold a pair of LSA book shelf that sell for $1000 and beat any Dyn I have heard at double the price.

I am not trashing any speaker. Simply giving my opinion so the OP can see how personal speakers are.

Now, don't get argumentative with me.
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post #70 of 95 Old 04-15-2012, 04:34 PM
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Man; things are wayyy too territorial in here. I think if you look closely, you'll see I offered no recommendation whatsoever. Mantis10 said "Dynaudio...have a way of sucking you into the sound , I have so many times just sat there and listened to the music and got lost in the moment". I said I agreed...and talked about how, in general...as I get more and more years into this hobby...what appeals to me has changed, and that I find that which is less "exciting", more pleasing.

That is somehow construed as trashing Paradigm, and being elitist? I suggest anyone who thinks that, re-think it...and spend some time away from the boards. For the record...I don't give 2, flying fu...figs what the OP buys...lol. For all I know, his taste and mine couldn't be further apart; his associated gear and mine, couldn't be more different, etc.

Last time I looked, Dynaudio cuts me no such check for weighing-in. Hey, OP...buy Paradigm; make these guys happy! Better yet, buy PSB, LSA...ABC, XYZ for all I care.

CD

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post #71 of 95 Old 04-15-2012, 04:45 PM
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Wow I can't believe you trashed both companies, you son of a b****. Just kidding
We all like different sounds, different cars and like our steak cooked differently. Same could apply to women who we find attractive. Some women we would agree on and some we wouldn't.

Warm, neutral, bright, .....well done, medium well, medium, medium rare and of course rare.(yuk) :P

If I was rich or had won the lottery I know that I would own several different brands as that I way could visit each room depending on my mood. Right now I have paradigm in 4 diiferent rooms but in a mansion it might be 10 different rooms,
10 different manufacturers

I guess thats a different topic for a different day, all the brands you would own if you win the lottery. :P
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post #72 of 95 Old 04-15-2012, 04:58 PM
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Man; things are wayyy too territorial in here. I think if you look closely, you'll see I offered no recommendation whatsoever. Mantis10 said "Dynaudio...have a way of sucking you into the sound , I have so many times just sat there and listened to the music and got lost in the moment". I said I agreed...and talked about how, in general...as I get more and more years into this hobby...what appeals to me has changed, and that I find that which is less "exciting", more pleasing.

That is somehow construed as trashing Paradigm, and being elitist? I suggest anyone who thinks that, re-think it...and spend some time away from the boards. For the record...I don't give 2, flying fu...figs what the OP buys...lol. For all I know, his taste and mine couldn't be further apart; his associated gear and mine, couldn't be more different, etc.

Last time I looked, Dynaudio cuts me no such check for weighing-in. Hey, OP...buy Paradigm; make these guys happy! Better yet, buy PSB, LSA...ABC, XYZ for all I care.

CD

Hey I said what I wanted and then lightened up. Maybe you should also lighten up.
When I responded to you it was just to try to get you to understand my point of view. Again it was not my intent to start a war or get into a mud slinging battle.
My first post today was my opinion, second was a reply. Thats it.
I think we both have better things to do tonight than this, Like watch tv or something.

Oh wait. I just checked the listings and all 300 channels and nothing on. :P
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post #73 of 95 Old 04-15-2012, 05:25 PM
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The op is going to think we are all nuts. :P
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post #74 of 95 Old 04-15-2012, 06:14 PM
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For someone to suggest that the sound of paradigm is like the tactic used by tv manufacturers to be the brightest and stand out the most has to be one of the biggest crocks of crap I've read on here. Seriously? You might as well have called paradigm the samsung of the audio world.

If we all were to go out and purchase a classic car today, than we would all come home with different cars. Its called personal preference. To say you have got lost in the music with dynaudio and hint that this might not be true for paradigm owners is also crap.

How many people here seem to know how a speaker should sound with no regard as to how instruments really sound? Instruments and musical passages can be bright. If you want a speaker to colour the sound and not be bright than that is a personal preference. Myself I like to hear what the instruments really sound like. Lots of people have no idea of the difference from a crash cymbal to a splash cymbal or to a thin crash.

Can a trumpet not be bright among many other instruments? Do people here know more of what sound should be like as opposed to musicians themselves or what instruments really sound like or even a live concert or the venue its played in.

We @ avs would make lousy reviewers as we are all to busy pushing speakers we own, We all seem to be biased towards our own products and I guess that is natural. But please do not embelish something so the op will go out and purchase the brand that you own.

I think some people should get off the couch and go out into the real world and listen to some instruments before telling people that their brand portrays the real experiance of what it should sound like.

Ok first off his analogy with Tv's is how he feels , why knock him for it or cal it crap? You might want to check yourself at the door my friend as this is a personal opinion and he is entitled to it.

There was no hinting around when I posted about how I got lost in the music with Dynaudio (then I purchased them) and have not yet experienced this with Paradigm . I can state this as I work for a Paradigm dealer and I express my opinion to our rep as well. Again this is a personal opinion and take it for that , you can't call it crap as it's not you who are reviewing both speaker companies. if you are willing to lay down what you feel , I find that perfectly except able as even you are entitled to your opinion on this matter.

So talking about sound? Lets see I come from a Musican family generations back. I started playing Guitar at the age of 9 (I'm 41 now). I have been in bands , I run sound for local bands , many members of my family play drums , piano , sing , and do recording studio work as well as commercial work. So yeah I have a full musical back ground and speak as I wish about how a speaker should sound. For me personally I think Dynaudio does a far better job then any Paradigm speaker I have ever heard or Installed. On that note I have been in this business for 13 years and counting. So I have experience not only in playing music but a depth of knowledge in replaying music.

But guess what? None of that matter if the person who started this thread doesn't agree with what I hear. It really matters what he/she likes. All I can do and anyone for that matter is to post personal experience with the above speakers and give opinions on them. Nothing is fact when it comes to sound quality and the person listening. The speaker needs to move you like real music does. When you close your eyes and listen , do you feel the music is being made in the room or is there 2 speakers just replaying it. When you get lost in the sound is when you have found speakers that move you.

Please don't come in here and CRAP up his/ her thread. if you have something to say about the above listed speakers and your wealth of experience with them , please post away , if not please leave.
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post #75 of 95 Old 04-15-2012, 06:32 PM
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Matis bravo.

I run sound at our church a very high end system for the venue. TRUE we all hear differently. As for me I barely go beyond 14k on the highs. That said a speaker could be bright (as some say...) and I could not tell unless it was a harmonic (another subject).

CDL tells me he like Dyns better than Paradigns. I'm his dealer and if he is happy I am happy. There are a ton of great speakers. Of course I like Dyn but I also love Tannoy, Genelec, Klipsch LaScala and Martin Logan Sumits. Rather broad and that's my point.

Not knowing much about P-dime isn't the 20 a higher priced model than Excites? Just asking. Someone mentioned Totem another good product. Op may also consider PSB.

Mike Miles

ICR [ Sales Consulting and Small Part-Time AV shop, very small...  ]

Process Integration, Inc. [ contract sales consultant ]

Eastern Shore of Maryland

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post #76 of 95 Old 04-15-2012, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John1400 View Post

Alot of what we say here is all imo. This applies to us, reviewers, dealers, and manufacturers. point in case, you say paradigm is bright and dynaudio is neutral.
I would class paradigm as having a neutral sound, imo, as paradigm has also described it's product as neutral, and the dealer where I bought them and some reviewers. If someone asked my opinion are paradigms neutral, Yes. If they then asked if they lean toward the bright side of neutral, yes. So in the end its all imo.

I'm no expert by any means, but I have been around a few instruments in my time and In my house I find paradigm to give the Instruments a life like sound. Sometimes someone will ask about will ask about 2 speakers just as they have here, 1, it would be if they like the sound of either speaker discussed here and 2, it might depend on the op,s situation. The op might have a room which is in an open concept area, blinds, hardwood, and leather, and maybe a warmer sounding neutral speaker might be best as opposed to a different room. Hope that makes sense.

In the end you say dynaudio is neutral, I say paradigm is neutral. Are we both wrong, are we both right, is one of us right, depends on who you ask? or what day it is. Do either of us have any valid scientific prove?

And about samsung, I have owned their tvs, and bluray machines and have had problems with every single one, 2 tv's and 3 bluray players and in the end I researched alot of the problems with their products only to find an incredable amount of people having issues with samsung products, just like when I researched my cable company and their cable box. In that respect I do believe I have the right to voice my opinion. I know every manufacturer goes through a spurt like this and can generally help the better companies out as they will improve upon their product to survive in the competative markets of today.

I also hope I did not offend you as that is not my intent and if I did then I do apologize. I must go now as i'm out of breath from our conversation.

Have a good night :P

One last comment on your replies and I'll try and leave you alone. There is NO scientific prove on what sounds better with anything that makes sound. lets look at some facts. If a guitar is tuned to 440 perfectly and another one from a different company is tuned exactly the same 440 , should they both sound exactly the same? Is there a way to test which one sounds better? NO only the person playing or listening can decide which one sounds best to them. They both can make the same exact chords , notes , scales , etc but for some reason they both sound different doing the exact same thing. Same goes for Piano's drums , Bass Guitars ,etc.
To further help you understand sound is sound in music is feeling. You as the listener needs to FEEL what is being played and like the sound of what is being played. It's an expression of one self if you will.
Example of sound , I like certain guitars because of the way they sound. I also like them for the way they feel when I play them. When I pick up a guitar that looks awesome and it sounds like crap or feels like Crap(I'll use your words) I basically put it down and look else where. But when I find one that plays well but sounds like crap , I put that down to. When I find one that sounds good but plays like crap I play that one more but in the end It doesn't come home with me. When I find one that looks good , feels good , sounds good , and I start to lose myself in what I'm playing , I leave demo mode and make music , I know I have truly found the one I was looking for.
This applies to speakers to. When I demo speakers ( which I have demo'd thousands in my lifetime and owned many) I'm in demo mode. I start by finding ones that look good , then sound good , then move me. Once I get moved , these are speakers to me are worth a second listen or just taking home on the spot. I look for musical sonic signatures as I bring all my own music that I know how it is supposed to sound live and recorded. I know what Instruments are arranged and even deeper what total gear is being used to produce such music. When I find speakers that are true to these points , I score them extremely high. Dynaudio has done that for me from the entry level to the extreme high end. Yes I have owned Dynaudio speakers and will again someday. No I never owned Paradigm and probably will not unless they come out with a pair that moves me.
Just for the Paradigm fans out there , please check out the new Monitor series , they are the best sounding Monitors to date IMO of course. They sound very balanced and clean with a hint of brightness when you drive them to hard. They require good electronics to make them sound their best so entry level receivers are not a good choice here. These are the first in home speakers from Paradigm I kinda like at their price point. Another was the Signature on wall theater system I did W5's with a Reference Sub25. Nice system running with Anthem and wired with Cardos. But not nice enough for me to buy for my theater.
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post #77 of 95 Old 04-15-2012, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by mmiles View Post

Matis bravo.

I run sound at our church a very high end system for the venue. TRUE we all hear differently. As for me I barely go beyond 14k on the highs. That said a speaker could be bright (as some say...) and I could not tell unless it was a harmonic (another subject).

CDL tells me he like Dyns better than Paradigns. I'm his dealer and if he is happy I am happy. There are a ton of great speakers. Of course I like Dyn but I also love Tannoy, Genelec, Klipsch LaScala and Martin Logan Sumits. Rather broad and that's my point.

Not knowing much about P-dime isn't the 20 a higher priced model than Excites? Just asking. Someone mentioned Totem another good product. Op may also consider PSB.

Very cool , I use to work for a Dynaudio dealer myself and really took to them. I was a huge B&W fan before I was introduced to Dynaudio. I was deep into the CDM9NT's and no one could even remove them from my fingers. Then my boss took me into the Audience 82 room where I sat and got lost in the music. I was so taken I had to go into one of our sound rooms and bring a pair of 9NT's in for a direct side by side as I couldn't believe what I was hearing. My loved 9NTs are getting bested by another speaker which I didn't think possible at that price point. B&W was King to me and that was that. Suprising to say the Audience 82's came home with me and it was all over at that moment.

Studio 20 bookshelf speakers are nice speakers , they actually took some designs from B&W and tried to make their own version of the N805's. They came up short IMO but they are beautiful and sound pretty good.

I have not tested my ears in years , I'd like to know where I drop off.
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post #78 of 95 Old 04-15-2012, 06:59 PM
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"How many people here seem to know how a speaker should sound with no regard as to how instruments really sound? Instruments and musical passages can be bright. If you want a speaker to colour the sound and not be bright than that is a personal preference. Myself I like to hear what the instruments really sound like. Lots of people have no idea of the difference from a crash cymbal to a splash cymbal or to a thin crash.

Can a trumpet not be bright among many other instruments? Do people here know more of what sound should be like as opposed to musicians themselves or what instruments really sound like or even a live concert or the venue its played in."

This is absolutely true. ..I've spent years around live and unamplified music and know first hand that even mellow instruments like violins and acoustic guitars (of very high quality!) can begin to grate on your nerves after protracted periods of listening or when standing too close. And instruments like trumpets, flutes, and saxophones can become almost painful at moderate levels and at a distance. ..Much of this is probably person-specific. We don't all hear the same.

Paradigm, I truly believe, engineers their speakers to be honest and accurate. If you don't like them, that's fine, but it's going a bit far to suggest that after all their years and money spent at the NRC they simply tip up the treble just to impress people in showrooms without regard to longterm listening satisfaction. I think they, like many speaker companies, engineer for a flat response in a real listening environment (rather than anechoic) ..But doing so means that some music will indeed sound grating and bright. ..This is why people should eschew the usual audiophile minimalist-thinking and buy a pre-amp/processor/integrated amp with bass/treble so you can tame those recordings that are too tipped up or if your listening environment isn't perfect.

Bottomline: IMHO if your music never sounds bright, then you don't have a very accurate system.
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post #79 of 95 Old 04-15-2012, 07:05 PM
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Ok first off his analogy with Tv's is how he feels , why knock him for it or cal it crap?

While I appreciate the "defense"...and agree John1400 jumped to conclusions with his initial response; the point is I never...go back and read it, and I repeat NEVER...made the analogy that Paradigm was somehow artificially bright...to gain the public's attention, like TVs in a showroom. NEVER!

My point was, in general...whereas I myself, used to go for that "exciting", "sizzling" sound...that it really grabbed my attention, and sounded "good"...that I now think of a system in balance, as one that doesn't draw attention to itself...and you can just sit and listen to it, for hours, without even realizing it.

I have no truck with John1400 anymore; I think he came back, explained himself, and softened his position. If anyone else felt like my "TV analogy" was directed at Paradigm specifically...rather than my just commenting on audio in general...then perhaps they need to look at their own feelings about Paradigm.

CD

Music is a moral law. It gives soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and charm and gaiety to life and to everything. -Plato
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post #80 of 95 Old 04-15-2012, 08:30 PM - Thread Starter
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The op is going to think we are all nuts. :P

Nah, not a chance!! Everyone else not addicted to this "hobby" is nuts, not us. And I live in a small town and there are not many choices, even in Phoenix/Scotsdale area most places you need an appointment! So I ask for suggestions and I get many replys and I thank you folks for that!! It gives me a direction.

Jeff
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post #81 of 95 Old 04-15-2012, 09:08 PM
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Mantis...I did not realize that you are an audio expert and avs moderator. Telling me not to come here because of what I said tells me alot about who you are. It seems like if my opinion is different from yours than somehow I must be wrong. After all you have demoed thousands of speakers, you play guitar, you're in the industry, you have family members who sing, dance and play drums, wow that is one talented family.

I have met alot of people in my life who claim alot of things and in the end I find most of them are just blowing their own horn. I have the feeling if I handed you a clarinet and asked, is it plastic or wood, you would not know the difference, they do sound different. If you were blindfolded could you tell me which cymbal was struck, crash, ride or splash. Would you be able to tell the difference between a regular drumhead and a hydraulic drumhead or the difference in sound by what wood was used to constuct the drum. Things like this cause intruments to sound different. But again you are the audio expert, and yes you play guitar and have demoed thousands, maybe millions of speakers.

Get off your high horse and come down to earth. This is a forum for people to discuss, debate and learn about speakers. It's not just a forum for you only and your audio expertise. You assume that I know nothing without knowing anything about me. Are you psychic also?
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post #82 of 95 Old 04-15-2012, 09:53 PM
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Im psychic, I knew before i even opened this thread the first time it would peak quickly and then be down hill from there for a long time. I also knew the rap/Maggies thread would be the way. right on both accounts.

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post #83 of 95 Old 04-16-2012, 01:06 AM
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Well, I find it funny that studios are now considered to bright. This all sparked backlash when I mentioned that the excites were nothing to get excited about. I'm not sure what defines a purist other than bland and boring, which to my ears, the excites demonstrate.

Each of us hear music through speakers different. This is why it's important to demo them before purchase. Paradigms audio performance is stellar from the monitors up to the signatures. I sometimes feel people try to impress their friends by brand name purchasing.

I also had a feeling that the thread about Maggie's and rap would go down like the titanic. It's your money, your equipment, and your taste that's important, so do as you wish.
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post #84 of 95 Old 04-16-2012, 06:17 AM
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Well, I find it funny that studios are now considered to bright. This all sparked backlash when I mentioned that the excites were nothing to get excited about. I'm not sure what defines a purist other than bland and boring, which to my ears, the excites demonstrate.

Each of us hear music through speakers different. This is why it's important to demo them before purchase. Paradigms audio performance is stellar from the monitors up to the signatures. I sometimes feel people try to impress their friends by brand name purchasing.

I also had a feeling that the thread about Maggie's and rap would go down like the titanic. It's your money, your equipment, and your taste that's important, so do as you wish.

Agreed

I,m not psychic and had no idea that the rap and maggie thread would go down the way it did. It got somewhat strange to me.
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post #85 of 95 Old 04-16-2012, 07:01 AM
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fwiw, I owned the Studio 20 and 10s (I still own the 10s) and I did find them a little bright as well. They are still great speakers, but my ears do get tired of listening to music on them after about an hour.

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post #86 of 95 Old 04-16-2012, 07:13 AM
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At one time I owned a seven channel v5 Studio setup, the only speakers I have left from that system are the Studio 20's. I also found the tweeter to be overly aggressive and bright sometimes. I moved up to the Digm Sig line as I find the Be tweeter to be much easier on my ears.

The 20's are being used in a two channel setup at the moment and I would like to replace them but the system doesn't get much use anymore beyond casual listening while making dinner, cleaning etc. Because of the low usage on that system I don't really feel like sinking much money into it so they'll probably be around for awhile.
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post #87 of 95 Old 04-16-2012, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomous View Post

I also had a feeling that the thread about Maggie's and rap would go down like the titanic. It's your money, your equipment, and your taste that's important, so do as you wish.

People get offended when someone said, "Why are you driving a crappy Ferrari 458?". Ohh such emotions when it comes to $. Hard earned $ for most
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post #88 of 95 Old 04-16-2012, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warpdrive View Post

fwiw, I owned the Studio 20 and 10s (I still own the 10s) and I did find them a little bright as well. They are still great speakers, but my ears do get tired of listening to music on them after about an hour.

Some Studio 10s I was listening to once had my ears tired and I didn't want to listen to any more music on them after about 30 seconds!

I can't see how people can claim they are an "accurate" speaker just because they sound tinny...???

I'm sure a real guitar or other musical instrument wouldn't have sounded like that.
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post #89 of 95 Old 04-16-2012, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
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Some Studio 10s I was listening to once had my ears tired and I didn't want to listen to any more music on them after about 30 seconds!

I can't see how people can claim they are an "accurate" speaker just because they sound tinny...???

I'm sure a real guitar or other musical instrument wouldn't have sounded like that.

My opinion is the avs forum is becoming like you tube or a gaming forum.
It's about how to take a shot at another persons speaker or how can I get a rise out of someone. If you were at a classic car show would you say, hey bud...thats a piece of crap, I'll bet not. Sometimes I wonder the age of a poster as some post sound like they were written by a teenager.

I thought forum's were about helping, advice, a friendly place to hang out and talk about our mutual hobbies.

Guess not
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post #90 of 95 Old 04-16-2012, 08:16 PM - Thread Starter
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I thought forum's were about helping, advice, a friendly place to hang out and talk about our mutual hobbies.

Guess not[/quote]

My intent was to get opinions not to bash and down one another. I respect and accept peoples opinions period. I asked the question because of my location and the distance to go listen to these suggestions. With the price of gas I have to consolodate my trips given the distance I would be driving. I take these suggestions and I note the brand of other speakers people have recommended to me and researched on the internet. I thank those people. For the one's who attacked the fellow A/Vers? GET OFF MY THREAD!!!! Thank you!

Jeff
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