Is listening to rap music on magnepan frowned upon audiophiles? - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 128 Old 04-13-2012, 11:09 AM
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I don't get it? Why do folks have to put down one genre of music to make another one stand out? Do you...
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post #62 of 128 Old 04-13-2012, 11:56 AM
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Ok to get back on topic is yes, you can listen to rap on Maggies. I owned Maggies and listened to everything I had including rap, the Maggies are great speakers but need a sub to do rap or any other music with bass justice.
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post #63 of 128 Old 04-13-2012, 12:08 PM
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It's real cool to see people play other types of music instead of Diana Krall or whatever, (no disrepect to her), because I love a lot of challenging music like metal, rap, punk and avant garde. I have been to the RMAF three times and its always the same boring crap they play in these rooms. Easy listening, Krall, Steely Dan etc. I do like Jazz and Pink Floyd, but a little variety is nice too. Once in awhile I'll hear music that I actually listen to like 16 Horsepower, Massive Attack, Fugazi, etc. I once brought in some Jane's Addiction and wanted to hear it in a room that had some amazing speakers. I was the youngest guy there and sort of felt like I was the kid in the room with all the adults. I walked out and tried to go back later. My friend and I joke about bringing in some Slayer and rocking one of the rooms and making these old guys spit their coffee out and mumbling in their fancy accent, "this is absurd!".
I kid of course, but this last year there were a lot more younger generations checking the rooms out so that was cool to see.
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post #64 of 128 Old 04-13-2012, 12:11 PM
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I seriously do not know what I like. I have Pink Floyd Dark side of the moon, and while recording is awesome, it does not evoke any feelings. Songs/music is supposed to do to that to the listener.
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post #65 of 128 Old 04-13-2012, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lou99 View Post

(Rap music analysis clinic)

I really appreciate your post. Its content falls on deaf ears because avowed rap haters take it as a point of pride that they hate rap, but you still did a terrific job. Thanks

Once again, I am sorry to take a sledgehammer to so small and fragile a nut. -- Richard Dawkins, The Greatest Show On Earth
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post #66 of 128 Old 04-13-2012, 12:39 PM
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LOL @ pride. Not sure where you got that impression from comments in this thread, but then I have no idea what an avowed rap hater is either.

Lots of sensitivity floating around here, I'm curious why it matters what others like. I say "Ziggy played guitar", you say "Mutha*****". To each his own (regardless of the speakers!).

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post #67 of 128 Old 04-13-2012, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chikoo View Post

I seriously do not know what I like. I have Pink Floyd Dark side of the moon, and while recording is awesome, it does not evoke any feelings. Songs/music is supposed to do to that to the listener.

You have to be high to get Pink Floyd.

Dumb enough to spend lots of cash on this junk!
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post #68 of 128 Old 04-13-2012, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chikoo View Post

I seriously do not know what I like. I have Pink Floyd Dark side of the moon, and while recording is awesome, it does not evoke any feelings. Songs/music is supposed to do to that to the listener.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

You have to be high to get Pink Floyd.

You should hear the SACD/multichannel version. That will change your minds.

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post #69 of 128 Old 04-13-2012, 01:18 PM
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Forget the genre of music.....we are losing out on well recorded music with the reduction of dynamic range due to the "loudness war".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war

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post #70 of 128 Old 04-13-2012, 01:34 PM
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the term "rap music" is an oxymoron. Anyone that would play this genre' on a set of Magnepan's IS a moron. Maggies simply cannt dig deep enough to reproduce the wickedly distorted basslines that accompany most rap. That's what Cervin Vega's and Crown amps are for.
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post #71 of 128 Old 04-13-2012, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

You should hear the SACD/multichannel version. That will change your minds.

+1

I have a fairly large selection across many genres, this one is by far my favorite. I have an older DVD-A of Emerson Lake & Palmer (ELP) that moves me similarly.

Actually many of the titles in multi-channel that I originally listened to on LP, then 8-track, cassette, CD really wow me, probably because of the increase in quality, certainly the nostalgia. Yet none tops Pink Floyd for sheer pleasure.

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post #72 of 128 Old 04-13-2012, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

Forget the genre of music.....we are losing out on well recorded music with the reduction of dynamic range due to the "loudness war".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war

I hope we are beginning to see a reversal of this. I have a few engineer friends who went through this stage and have seen the error of their ways. Dynamic range compression is an evil thing to do to someone's talent.

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post #73 of 128 Old 04-13-2012, 01:53 PM
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Bottom line they're your speakers. Listen to whatever the heck you want on them. I personally don't care for rap/hip hop. But that just a personal preference.

And I agree with the others, Pink Floyd is excellent ( and no you don't have to be high ). The newer multi channel stuff is amazing. Though I prefer Parson's Quad mix to Guthrie's 5.1 (have the Immersion and SACD both). On Wish You Were Here, I do prefer the 5.1 to the Quad (Parson wasn't involved with this one).

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post #74 of 128 Old 04-13-2012, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

I hope we are beginning to see a reversal of this. I have a few engineer friends who went through this stage and have seen the error of their ways. Dynamic range compression is an evil thing to do to someone's talent.

I really hope this is the case.

I also hope we start seeing more music studio mixes on Bluray.

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post #75 of 128 Old 04-13-2012, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

You should hear the SACD/multichannel version. That will change your minds.

I do have the highest quality FLAC files. But then again, maybe I need some LSD to really get going.

Now Techno music is whole another thing. I can listen to the ones I have all day long and it just keeps me in good spirits
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post #76 of 128 Old 04-13-2012, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chikoo View Post

I do have the highest quality FLAC files. But then again, maybe I need some LSD to really get going.

Now Techno music is whole another thing. I can listen to the ones I have all day long and it just keeps me in good spirits

There is no difference in FLAC files...what goes in is what comes out.

What was the source in making the FLAC file?

Like Nethawk and I mentioned...if you have the capability to listen to SACDs (SACD player connected properly to your AVR or pre/pro), find a disc and give it a try.

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post #77 of 128 Old 04-13-2012, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nooshinjohn View Post

the term "rap music" is an oxymoron. Anyone that would play this genre' on a set of Magnepan's IS a moron. Maggies simply cannt dig deep enough to reproduce the wickedly distorted basslines that accompany most rap. That's what Cervin Vega's and Crown amps are for.

And i supposed your 30 years of massively subjective experience with all kinds of needless over hyped, overly exaggerated gear makes you the definitive expert.

Calling people "morons" for listening to what they like on their gear is pretty moronic, and it shows just what kind of person you really are.

All people have the right to enjoy whatever type of music that they like playing on whatever gear they choose. To the folks who don't like it, tough ****.

I don't need snobs to tell me how to think, thank you!
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post #78 of 128 Old 04-14-2012, 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by 67jason View Post


And i supposed your 30 years of massively subjective experience with all kinds of needless over hyped, overly exaggerated gear makes you the definitive expert.

Calling people "morons" for listening to what they like on their gear is pretty moronic, and it shows just what kind of person you really are.

All people have the right to enjoy whatever type of music that they like playing on whatever gear they choose. To the folks who don't like it, tough ****.

+100
music is part of someone's culture so to attack the people who listen to rap music is extremely insulting because you are passing judgement on another person and attacking a part of their culture at the same time. I always try to combat ignorance with education; with that said, can you(the folks who disdain the genre) name another genre of music that had bridged millions of people around the world, regardless of socio-economic, racial or ethnic classifications? You can't because it's never happened in the history of entertainment! Rap music is a breathing and living entity that can be found in the ghettos of Harlem to the mansions on the Main Line. It's laughable that the gentleman insults the distorted bass because that same distorted bass which is the driving force found in rap music, represents rhythm and tempo and rhythm and tempo are present in 99% of all music, throughout history. The bass or drum is the MOST influential musical instrument found in history and has been responsible for the development of jazz and classical music. The same jazz, classical and other complex forms of music that has led to the development of communities such as the AVS Forum. Kanye West, a rap artist, says "drive slow homie, drive slow homie, you better pump your brakes and drive slow homie" in one of his songs which metaphorically encourages one to slow down and think about what you are doing and saying before you misstep, with that said, DRIVE SLOW HOMIE!
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post #79 of 128 Old 04-14-2012, 03:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

Like Nethawk and I mentioned...if you have the capability to listen to SACDs (SACD player connected properly to your AVR or pre/pro), find a disc and give it a try.

Unfortunately SACD would always sound inferior due to the analog out instead of pure digital like NAD M2. There's always something reduced in analog. But let's agree to disagree and ignore my comment
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post #80 of 128 Old 04-14-2012, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jclif77 View Post

I always try to combat ignorance with education; with that said, can you(the folks who disdain the genre) name another genre of music that had bridged millions of people around the world, regardless of socio-economic, racial or ethnic classifications? You can't because it's never happened in the history of entertainment! Rap music is a breathing and living entity that can be found in the ghettos of Harlem to the mansions on the Main Line. . . .

Yep. Here's an interesting stat to back you up. Jay-Z has had 12 number one albums in the Billboard charts, second only to the Beatles and ahead of Elvis and The Rolling Stones.

Of course the close-minded thinking represented by nooshinjohn's comment is nothing new. Many people in the 60's and 70's--undoubtedly many audiophiles among them--said the same thing about rock music. One doesn't have to like rap (or rock) to recognize its significance (and place) as a music genre. When people fail to acknowledge it, it more often than not represents a cultural bias against the musicians and perceived primary listeners of the genre and/or messages the genre promotes. In the case of hip hop and rap, I would not be surprised if it's often fueled by either outright ethnic and/or socio-economic prejudice.

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post #81 of 128 Old 04-14-2012, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 67jason View Post

And i supposed your 30 years of massively subjective experience with all kinds of needless over hyped, overly exaggerated gear makes you the definitive expert.

Calling people "morons" for listening to what they like on their gear is pretty moronic, and it shows just what kind of person you really are.

All people have the right to enjoy whatever type of music that they like playing on whatever gear they choose. To the folks who don't like it, tough ****.

Please note the smilie at the end of my post, meant to indicate that it was not to be taken seriously. I agree that if that's your flavor so be it, play the music you like on whatever you want, who the hell cares.

I believe your comments are more directed at my being rather dismissive of the sbt/dbt/null-test method of choosing gear than anything else, because to bring that up as your first thought in your post is meaningless to this topic.

If we were to look at my post throught the eyes of science, rather than subjectively, I think you would agree that my post makes perfect sense.
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post #82 of 128 Old 04-14-2012, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by nooshinjohn View Post

Please note the smilie at the end of my post, meant to indicate that it was not to be taken seriously. I agree that if that's your flavor so be it, play the music you like on whatever you want, who the hell cares.

I believe your comments are more directed at my being rather dismissive of the sbt/dbt/null-test method of choosing gear than anything else, because to bring that up as your first thought in your post is meaningless to this topic.

If we were to look at my post throught the eyes of science, rather than subjectively, I think you would agree that my post makes perfect sense.


Whatever you say, you are the expert after all.

I don't need snobs to tell me how to think, thank you!
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post #83 of 128 Old 04-14-2012, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Of course the close-minded thinking represented by nooshinjohn's comment is nothing new. Many people in the 60's and 70's--undoubtedly many audiophiles among them--said the same thing about rock music. One doesn't have to like rap (or rock) to recognize its significance (and place) as a music genre. When people fail to acknowledge it, it more often than not represents a cultural bias against the musicians and perceived primary listeners of the genre and/or messages the genre promotes. In the case of hip hop and rap, I would not be surprised if it's often fueled by either outright ethnic and/or socio-economic prejudice.

The reason, specifically, that I don't like much of the rap format is not because of the genre, the beat or the sound... it has to do with the message and the image projected by the artists that perform it today. Rap has evolved radically from it's humble beginnings in the early '70's and did not really gain popularity until it morphed into the coercive, negative style of today. Thanks to bands such as N.W.A(and i knew the members of this group PERSONALLY) it became acceptable to "F*&^ da Police".

Rock music has always had it's share of angst, but rap and a few non-rap groups("pumped up kicks" anyone) are filled with imagery promoting lack of respect for human life, raping and killing, mayhem and destruction. When I fire up the two channel rig, I want to relax, not become angry and agitated.

I understand more about rap than you know. I know it's history of violence and I choose not to participate in it.
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post #84 of 128 Old 04-14-2012, 07:15 AM
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While I didn't watch the video, t don't think Maggies are a good match for most hip-hop/rap, because their upper-bass is bloated-sounding without offering much in the way of tactile stimulation. One should probably use more either accurate speakers, and/or speakers capable of providing more slam.

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***But yah, your average "audiophile" likes to brag about $100 cables and listens to Jazz through a pair of Sennheiser HD600 or AKG K701 *yawn* and don't think of anything with actual bass impact, you are "coloring" the sound!

I can't speak to the K701, but the HD580/HD600/HD650 series aren't especially bass-shy...WHEN connected to an amp with enough grunt to drive them. (Even a cheapie, like a HeadRoom Total AirHead, is sufficient. Headphone jacks on portable gear or most home preamps are not, though some like the old Sonic Frontiers Line-series preamps can drive them well.) And for the record, I've listened to both jazz and hip-hop/rap, as well as a bunch of other genres of music, on my '580s...

Now, if you're talking about the five-figure Senn Orpheus, I agree they're quite light on their feet. I was quite surprised to find I preferred the 580/Total AirHead combination to the Orpheus in a direct A/B listen. The Orpheus's tube amp is gorgeous, though.

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post #85 of 128 Old 04-14-2012, 07:23 AM
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This is undoubtedly the only thing NJ has said that I will ever agree with (based on what I've read so far).
I respect the genre, I respect and applaud the artists, and I have absolutely nothing against anyone who enjoys rap. But I listen to music to relax, to smile, to reflect back on my life, which happens to have been surrounded by very good,extremely talented musicians. It's the anger that keeps me away, plain and simple.

Not that I should have to explain this any more than others should be placed in a position to defend. I didn't attack the genre anyway, so I should probably just shut up

Again, we're off topic. Maggies are great no matter what's piped through them.

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post #86 of 128 Old 04-14-2012, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nooshinjohn View Post

The reason, specifically, that I don't like much of the rap format is not because of the genre, the beat or the sound... it has to do with the message and the image projected by the artists that perform it today. Rap has evolved radically from it's humble beginnings in the early '70's and did not really gain popularity until it morphed into the coercive, negative style of today. Thanks to bands such as N.W.A(and i knew the members of this group PERSONALLY) it became acceptable to "F*&^ da Police".

Rock music has always had it's share of angst, but rap and a few non-rap groups("pumped up kicks" anyone) are filled with imagery promoting lack of respect for human life, raping and killing, mayhem and destruction. When I fire up the two channel rig, I want to relax, not become angry and agitated.

I understand more about rap than you know. I know it's history of violence and I choose not to participate in it.

While rap music is often characterized by angst and commentary on oppression and social inequality, it's stereotyping to define it as all about violence. One can choose not to listen to a genre without condemning it all in this way (or describing it as an "oxymoron").

That being said, while I do find NWA's "F**ck that Police" message extreme in its method, the lyrics are a response to the racist practices of the LAPD. Condemning the messenger without also criticizing that same social inequality and oppression I mentioned above that causes it, does demonstrate a particular cultural bias.

That being said, if you are an American and choose to ignore a genre because you feel it champions a violent response to oppression, be sure to turn your back the next time you hear The Star-Spangled Banner.

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post #87 of 128 Old 04-14-2012, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by nooshinjohn View Post


The reason, specifically, that I don't like much of the rap format is not because of the genre, the beat or the sound... it has to do with the message and the image projected by the artists that perform it today. Rap has evolved radically from it's humble beginnings in the early '70's and did not really gain popularity until it morphed into the coercive, negative style of today. Thanks to bands such as N.W.A(and i knew the members of this group PERSONALLY) it became acceptable to "F*&^ da Police".

Rock music has always had it's share of angst, but rap and a few non-rap groups("pumped up kicks" anyone) are filled with imagery promoting lack of respect for human life, raping and killing, mayhem and destruction. When I fire up the two channel rig, I want to relax, not become angry and agitated.

I understand more about rap than you know. I know it's history of violence and I choose not to participate in it.

Wow, you couldn't be more incorrect! Rap music had a humble beginning? FALSE! Ever heard of Grand Master Flash and the Furious Five's, Don't Push Me Cause I'm Close to the Edge? Listen to the lyrics, PLEASE. Rap music was born in the ghetto of NY city and expressed the hardship and culture of many people living in the impoverished and violent neighborhoods such as Queens Bridge. Rap music's roots are also inextricably tied to rent parties, graffiti and break dancing; I wouldn't call that a humble beginning.

It's easy to attack the perceived down side of a genre because one doesn't understand the source of material (inner city A.A. Youth) or the message behind the artists and this is where folks shut down and act like racism doesn't exist. The REASON why NWA said F the Police is due to the history of documented police brutality against young A.A men in L.A. I am not trying to stand on a soap box or highjack this member's thread but I can't stand it when people have not taken the time to understand or have not experienced something first hand but want to pass judgement. This argument is complex and is inevitably linked to the A.A. experience in this country; it's not as simple as it's a genre that promotes violence, rape and disregard for human life....listen to A Tribe Called Quest, Digable Planets, and the likes of Nas, LL Cool J, Rakim, EPMD, X Clan, Big Daddy Kane, Busta Rhymes, KRS One, The Fugees....hell, even Captain Kirk has a rap album! I almost forgot, Public Enemy would be a good place to start your education....
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post #88 of 128 Old 04-14-2012, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

While rap music is often characterized by angst and commentary on oppression and social inequality, it's stereotyping to define it as all about violence. One can choose not to listen to a genre without condemning it all in this way (or describing it as an "oxymoron").

That being said, while I do find NWA's "F**ck that Police" message extreme in its method, the lyrics are a response to the racist practices of the LAPD. Condemning the messenger without also criticizing that same social inequality and oppression I mentioned above that causes it, does demonstrate a particular cultural bias.

That being said, if you are an American and choose to ignore a genre because you feel it champions a violent response to oppression, be sure to turn your back the next time you hear The Star-Spangled Banner.

Having served my country, I will defend your right to do just that, but don't insult my intelligence by saying that this nation is an oppressor of anyone. And before you spout some left-wing ideology on me( I was raised by the best) I suggest that you read your history and know it well. Has America been perfect, hell no! have we lived up to our founding principles...hell no! In spite of this, do people still come from all over the globe to become a part of the greatest nation on earth? HELL YES! You should ask yourself why that is before you buy into the OWS hype.

The other part of your post... the "inequality" part is also basically bs. If that were the case today, as it certainly was in the beginning, you wouldn't see so many blinged out Phantom's and Lambo's in the videos of today. I see gangster-style rap as nothing more than a recruitment tool for the thug-life.

http://voices.yahoo.com/drug-dealers...981.html?cat=9

I choose not to listen to it...
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post #89 of 128 Old 04-14-2012, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by nooshinjohn View Post

Having served my country, I will defend your right to do just that, but don't insult my intelligence by saying that this nation is an oppressor of anyone. And before you spout some left-wing ideology on me( I was raised by the best) I suggest that you read your history and know it well. Has America been perfect, hell no! have we lived up to our founding principles...hell no! In spite of this, do people still come from all over the globe to become a part of the greatest nation on earth? HELL YES! You should ask yourself why that is before you buy into the OWS hype.

The other part of your post... the "inequality" part is also basically bs. If that were the case today, as it certainly was in the beginning, you wouldn't see so many blinged out Phantom's and Lambo's in the videos of today. I see gangster-style rap as nothing more than a recruitment tool for the thug-life.

http://voices.yahoo.com/drug-dealers...981.html?cat=9

I choose not to listen to it...

The Occupy Wall Street movement is about something else entirely???

Anyway, thanks for making my case for me that you do have a particular cultural bias (as you point out, from your upbringing and the blind eye to oppression in American history) that would cause you to stereotype all rap music, and sometimes based even on a particular narrow, one-sided interpretation even of the representative samples you base your stereotype on.

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post #90 of 128 Old 04-14-2012, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by nooshinjohn View Post

Having served my country, I will defend your right to do just that, but don't insult my intelligence by saying that this nation is an oppressor of anyone. And before you spout some left-wing ideology on me( I was raised by the best) I suggest that you read your history and know it well. Has America been perfect, hell no! have we lived up to our founding principles...hell no! In spite of this, do people still come from all over the globe to become a part of the greatest nation on earth? HELL YES! You should ask yourself why that is before you buy into the OWS hype.

The other part of your post... the "inequality" part is also basically bs. If that were the case today, as it certainly was in the beginning, you wouldn't see so many blinged out Phantom's and Lambo's in the videos of today. I see gangster-style rap as nothing more than a recruitment tool for the thug-life.

http://voices.yahoo.com/drug-dealers...981.html?cat=9

I choose not to listen to it...

Amazing how a question about rap music on a particular set of gear ends up with how great the nation of the United States of America is. FYI, your country is not God's gift to the planet, and if you check up on it, it's not even close to rated the "greatest nation on earth" by the rest of us that occupy it. Yes people move there for greater opportunity than they would otherwise have in their respective countries but the holier than thou attitude is why there is such lack of respect for the USA globally.

To answer the posters question yes, you can listen to rap music on your maggies, or a mono speaker, or the cheapest headphones that you can find for a 60k recording on your iPad. Equipment (or lack thereof) does not dictate what you can listen to, only how good or limited it can sound. I have no personal experience with Maggies and from what I have heard of them if they are bass shy then then may not be the best for cranking those deep bass tones, but that doesn't mean you can't enjoy the style or message to your hearts content.

Audiophiles are a strange and elitist bunch much of the time and if you aren't listening to the classics (Jazz, Classical, or something with unearthly vocals) on equipment that costs as much as your house and cables close to the worth of your car, then you just aren't doing it right and have no business trying to listen to anything. I say, enjoy the music however and whenever you can on whatever equipment you can justify. If you can't afford anything then hum, whistle, or sing to yourself and let others opinions float in the breeze.

For the record, I don't limit myself to any specific genre of music. You will find in my collection something from just about any musical genre and if someone has brought a good song/artist to my attention it typically gets added regardless of style. I do however draw the line at extremely negative messages or high levels of profanity in music. I was born an audiophile and have spend my free time fulfilling that part of my soul.
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