Speakers for 20-30K - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 264 Old 04-25-2012, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babak147 View Post

No, it's for me and me only, I'm not trying to impress anyone, however I have a bad habit, I can't buy a non flagship product. I always think that a company keeps their best tech for their flagship. It's going to bug the hell of me and will force me to upgrade soon.

If you are set on integrated amps, how about the W4S STI-1000:

570wpc x 2Ch 8ihm/ 1140wpc x 2Ch 4ohm (Salon2 are 4ohm speakers).

http://www.wyred4sound.com/webapps/p.../117839/362237
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post #182 of 264 Old 04-25-2012, 09:33 AM
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Someone probably already said this, but no matter what flagship towers you buy, you will probably want some real subs to go along.

Like Salon2 or 207/2 plus dual Funk Audio 18.0 subs.

Or something like that.

Or unless you just listen to classical music (Mozart, Beethoven, Bach ).
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post #183 of 264 Old 04-25-2012, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

....Or unless you just listen to classical music (Mozart, Beethoven, Bach ).


Stongly disagree! There are plenty of classical pieces that would have many speakers begging for help from a good sub.

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post #184 of 264 Old 04-25-2012, 10:23 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn94 View Post

Stongly disagree! There are plenty of classical pieces that would have many speakers begging for help from a good sub.

You've got to get ADTG to attend one of the shows, to see(hear) firsthand if classical pieces don't need a good sub/strong LF performance .
See what happens when you listen to too much Bieber?
cheers,

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post #185 of 264 Old 04-25-2012, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn94 View Post

Stongly disagree! There are plenty of classical pieces that would have many speakers begging for help from a good sub.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AJinFLA View Post

You've got to get ADTG to attend one of the shows, to see(hear) firsthand if classical pieces don't need a good sub/strong LF performance .
See what happens when you listen to too much Bieber?
cheers,

AJ

Ha, ha.

I meant excluding pipe organ.

Isn't the lowest non-synthesized musical note around 27Hz?

Anyway, I personally listen to classical music and all music in 2.1 stereo with dual subs. I was just trying to be PC.

But fine, all speakers need subwoofers.
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post #186 of 264 Old 04-25-2012, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmiles View Post

Coytee, How is the highs on the Jube's? In the past I 0wned the Heresy, Cornwall and RF7s were as the highs especially with the RF7s was a bit harsh at times.

I can't give any technical answer since I'm not a technical guy. I will say that Terry DeWick and Drew Bolce came over to my house (in Knoxville) once to hear them. They brought some of their testing gear. From a chart perspective, in the home, my hearing stopped somewhere around 14K as I recall (I know, not very scientific but it's a yardstick). The graph continued up to roughly 18K AND, very interesting to me, was "ruler" flat. I do'nt know what scale they were using but it was amazing to me how flat the line was.

I didn't hear squat in the room though. Too high for my tired ears.

That said, the Jubilee in stock form, uses the 2" K69 driver that is the tweeter driver in the cinema lineup. Since it's 2" I guess you get more ability, more mouth area (or something like that) and lower distortion than a smaller driver running at the same SPL's.

These things however, are on cruise control in the home. Do some math.... 109 db @ 1 watt? ouch.

When the meter on my McIntosh amp (biamped at the time, running my HF horn) was peaking between 5/10 watts, things were toe tapping. If it got to peaking around 25 watts, the wife would be asking me to turnnnnnnnnnnnnn ittttttttttttttt downnnnnnnnnnnnn
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post #187 of 264 Old 04-26-2012, 10:53 AM
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To hit 95dB at 12' using 109dB efficient speaker requires 1 watt...

Mike Miles

ICR [ Sales Consulting and Small Part-Time AV shop, very small...  ]

Process Integration, Inc. [ contract sales consultant ]

Eastern Shore of Maryland

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post #188 of 264 Old 04-26-2012, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmiles View Post

To hit 95dB at 12' using 109dB efficient speaker requires 1 watt...

Less than that indoors I bet. I only lose 9db from 17 ft away.
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post #189 of 264 Old 04-27-2012, 06:53 AM
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May want to consider the Avantgard Duo speakers. They have about a 106db sensitivty rating which gives you a great range of options for the type of amp you want to use. I heard these w/a 6wpc Art Audio amp and it could play quite loud w/out ny strain.
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post #190 of 264 Old 04-27-2012, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

....Anyway, I personally listen to classical music and all music in 2.1 stereo with dual subs. I was just trying to be PC.

But fine, all speakers need subwoofers.

Now your talkin'.

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post #191 of 264 Old 04-27-2012, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babak147 View Post

Finally moving to a house in July with a large room for office ( about 400sf ) , My budget for a pair of speakers is between 20-30K. Its going to be for critical listening, will be incorporated into a personal HT later. ( me only , family has a HT down stairs)
and No I have no electronics yet ( Amp, Processors,etc ) bought yet.
I live in Westchester NY. ( 25 miles north of NYC)
I have auditioned
-B&W 802 and 800.
-Adam tensor Gamma
-Wilson Sophia 3
But in different places with really different equipment and not even in the same day.
All nearby dealer hate Revels for some reason, They talk you out of buying them. ( I cant find a place to audition them, maybe I should go to city)
I plan to start with Peachtree grand integrated (400wpc) and upgrade electronics as I can afford it.
Please tell me what you think about speakers, I'm open to any suggestion.
Used or new doesn't matter. Aesthetics are not important. I mostely listen to classic rock and classical.
I'm a noob in HIFI audio but computer savvy.
I appreciate your input.
PS. I searched and couldn't find another thread with same question, pardon me if I missed it.

UPDATE:
Dear dealers, I will be happy if you PM me your price on the speakers that you have for sale, If you are not Local to Westchester NY or withing 50 miles please PM me your shipped price.

Sorry, I just found this post. The answer is obvious, Wilson Sasha Watt Puppies. I am not a dealer but I will PM you with who is the best dealer in the area, we are neighbors.

What you got back home, little sister, to play your fuzzy warbles on? I bet you got little save pitiful, portable picnic players. Come with uncle and hear all proper! Hear angel trumpets and devil trombones. You are invited.
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post #192 of 264 Old 04-27-2012, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

From HTM:

"Vienna Acoustics Music's listening-window response (a five-point average of axial and +/-15-degree horizontal and vertical responses) measures +3.49/-6.02 decibels from 200 hertz to 10 kilohertz. The -3-dB point is at 48 Hz..."

http://www.hometheater.com/content/v...-labs-measures

I wouldn't spend $27,000 on speakers with that poor frequency response.


Have you heard them? Did you hear the line squiggle? Have you thought that Vienna Acoustic could make a flat sounding 4-way, but likely tuned it by ear afterward?

I'm listening to them right now on a Boulder amp. It has one of the best mid-ranges I've heard, but according to the chart you posted that can't be
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post #193 of 264 Old 04-27-2012, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Webomatic View Post

Have you heard them? Did you hear the line squiggle? Have you thought that Vienna Acoustic could make a flat sounding 4-way, but likely tuned it by ear afterward?

I'm listening to them right now on a Boulder amp. It has one of the best mid-ranges I've heard, but according to the chart you posted that can't be

No, have not heard them.

Yes, I think they tuned by ears afterwards.

I believe they sound great to you.

But I'm just saying personally I would not buy speakers unless they sound great, measure great, and look great.

The fact is, Vienna Acoustic speakers measure poorly. They may sound great to you and all Vienna Acoustic fans, and you may not care about these measurements, but they measure poorly, like Wilson Audio, Zu Audio, B&W, many other speakers out there.
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post #194 of 264 Old 04-27-2012, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

No, have not heard them.

Yes, I think they tuned by ears afterwards.

I believe they sound great to you.

But I'm just saying personally I would not buy speakers unless they sound great, measure great, and look great.

The fact is, Vienna Acoustic speakers measure poorly. They may sound great to you and all Vienna Acoustic fans, and you may not care about these measurements, but they measure poorly, like Wilson Audio, Zu Audio, B&W, many other speakers out there.


Why do you think the audio engineers there tuned them by ear afterward? Do you think it might be that they discount what charts say?
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post #195 of 264 Old 04-27-2012, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Webomatic View Post

Why do you think the audio engineers there tuned them by ear afterward? Do you think it might be that they discount what charts say?

Maybe. I would like to know.

I would like to ask them, "Can you make a speaker that not only sounds great, but also measures great?"

Sure, measurements are not everything. True.

But why not have the best of both worlds?

Unless they really think accurate speakers (FR measurements) like Salon2, KEF Reference, Salk, Philharmonic, etc, don't sound as good.
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post #196 of 264 Old 04-27-2012, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

Maybe. I would like to know.

I would like to ask them, "Can you make a speaker that not only sounds great, but also measures great?"

Sure, measurements are not everything. True.

But why not have the best of both worlds?

Unless they really think accurate speakers (FR measurements) like Salon2, KEF Reference, Salk, Philharmonic, etc, don't sound as good.


Point is that every engineer or group of engineers will tune their speakers to produce what they believe is a more appealing sound with certain music content. Some people like to hear more detail in the treble, while others of course prefer a slightly more even or even laid back approach. There is really nothing wrong with either preference IMO.

Just like how not all displays are made the same. Some companies go for the most accurate colors they can produce, while other companies exenuate more vivid colors to make the picture pop with certain material. Just a matter of tastes.

BTW all the speakers that you mentioned that are flat in the FR all sound great to me as well. Thing is I like most speakers I listen to though than probably most people.
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post #197 of 264 Old 04-27-2012, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Matts View Post

Point is that every engineer or group of engineers will tune their speakers to produce what they believe is a more appealing sound with certain music content. Some people like to hear more detail in the treble, while others of course prefer a slightly more even or even laid back approach. There is really nothing wrong with either preference IMO.

This is a broken design philosophy. If I manufacturer high fidelity equipment and I market my brand as such, then my sole purpose is to remain as transparent to the source as possible. There is no other choice because I am a producer of high fidelity equipment and fidelity is defined as faithfulness and accuracy.
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post #198 of 264 Old 04-27-2012, 02:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

Sure, measurements are not everything.

They are 90+%...and do indeed predict what 90+% will prefer when relying only on their ears to judge the sound.
There will always be outliers, who prefer the distorted response (such as a massive, highly audible trough in the mids of the VAs), but we don't know who they are, since those responding when it is shown that their speakers are highly colored, are talking about sighted biased evaluations...and have no way of detecting such obvious flaws.
They are simply expressing what they like (sighted)....and there is no arguing with that.

cheers,

AJ
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post #199 of 264 Old 04-27-2012, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Webomatic View Post

Why do you think the audio engineers there tuned them by ear afterward? Do you think it might be that they discount what charts say?

Actually, I seriously doubt that the frequency response irregularities in these speakers are due to any tuning by ear. There is a sharp discontinuity in the FR that could not come from "tuning."

For every new thing I learn, I forget two things I used to know.
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post #200 of 264 Old 04-27-2012, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJinFLA View Post

They are 90+%...and do indeed predict what 90+% will prefer when relying only on their ears to judge the sound.
There will always be outliers, who prefer the distorted response (such as a massive, highly audible trough in the mids of the VAs), but we don't know who they are, since those responding when it is shown that their speakers are highly colored, are talking about sighted biased evaluations...and have no way of detecting such obvious flaws.
They are simply expressing what they like (sighted)....and there is no arguing with that.

cheers,

AJ


So you've heard them?
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post #201 of 264 Old 04-27-2012, 04:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Webomatic View Post

So you've heard them?

Yes.
So you like speakers with recessed upper mids? Great. Your preference.

cheers,

AJ
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post #202 of 264 Old 04-27-2012, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJinFLA View Post

They are 90+%...and do indeed predict what 90+% will prefer when relying only on their ears to judge the sound.
There will always be outliers, who prefer the distorted response (such as a massive, highly audible trough in the mids of the VAs), but we don't know who they are, since those responding when it is shown that their speakers are highly colored, are talking about sighted biased evaluations...and have no way of detecting such obvious flaws.
They are simply expressing what they like (sighted)....and there is no arguing with that.

cheers,

AJ

Thank you! Yes, that right there. I meant to say that.

As I was saying, the OP should buy speakers that sound great and have freaking awesome measurements to back it up.
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post #203 of 264 Old 04-27-2012, 10:47 PM
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Just get some danley synergy horns and call it a day... if you feel the need to upgrade then sell them, they will sell fast.

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post #204 of 264 Old 04-27-2012, 11:12 PM
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Sonus Faber Cremonas
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post #205 of 264 Old 04-28-2012, 02:57 AM
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Originally Posted by jmichaelf View Post

this is a broken design philosophy. If i manufacturer high fidelity equipment and i market my brand as such, then my sole purpose is to remain as transparent to the source as possible. There is no other choice because i am a producer of high fidelity equipment and fidelity is defined as faithfulness and accuracy.

+1!

HAVE:

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Speakers: Philharmonic 2; TagMclaren Calliope; Pioneer BS-22
Sub: W15GTI MKII (Tuned to 20hz; 300 liter enclosure) X 2
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post #206 of 264 Old 04-28-2012, 02:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

amps are amps. If it was me, i wouldn't waste the money. Emotive is much less and it'll sound the same.

+1

HAVE:

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Speakers: Philharmonic 2; TagMclaren Calliope; Pioneer BS-22
Sub: W15GTI MKII (Tuned to 20hz; 300 liter enclosure) X 2
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post #207 of 264 Old 04-28-2012, 03:13 AM
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Take a look at:

Pioneer S-1EX ($10,000), (don't let the brand fool you. It was designed by a man named Andrew Jones. Excellent designer & very nice guy.)

Revel Salon2 ($22,000)

TAD Compact Reference One ($37,000) (Few thousand over budget but it shouldn't be too hard to talk dealer down a few grand. Also designed by Andrew Jones.)

Those are my person favorite speakers. All measure very well.

Also look at Philharmonic Audio (Could save you lots of money. I just purchased the 2's )

Also look at Selah Audio. I've heard Rick Craig makes some SWEET Line Array.

Also, be sure to consider adding multiple subwoofers.

Just my. 002. YMMV.

HAVE:

Receiver: Marantz SR6004
Speakers: Philharmonic 2; TagMclaren Calliope; Pioneer BS-22
Sub: W15GTI MKII (Tuned to 20hz; 300 liter enclosure) X 2
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post #208 of 264 Old 04-28-2012, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmichaelf View Post

This is a broken design philosophy. If I manufacturer high fidelity equipment and I market my brand as such, then my sole purpose is to remain as transparent to the source as possible. There is no other choice because I am a producer of high fidelity equipment and fidelity is defined as faithfulness and accuracy.

While I consider measurements and modeling the dominant part of my own process of speaker development, blindly stating "I want a flat frequency response!" will get yawns and eye rolls from anyone with significant experience measuring and designing speakers. What and where do you want measurements flat? How flat is flat? Does smoothing matter?

The measurements that contribute to how a loudspeaker sounds in a room is dependent on a very wide array of measurements, and require much more than a simple on axis magnitude response.

Mark Seaton
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"Make no little plans; they have no magic to stir men's blood..." Daniel H. Burnham
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post #209 of 264 Old 04-28-2012, 09:00 AM
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I'm not qualified nor worthy of this thread but looking in this price range sounds like a lot of fun. Good luck. Maybe a separate recording studio?
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post #210 of 264 Old 04-28-2012, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

The measurements that contribute to how a loudspeaker sounds in a room is dependent on a very wide array of measurements, and require much more than a simple on axis magnitude response.

Agreed. A single on axis frequency response chart doesn't tell you the whole story.

HAVE:

Receiver: Marantz SR6004
Speakers: Philharmonic 2; TagMclaren Calliope; Pioneer BS-22
Sub: W15GTI MKII (Tuned to 20hz; 300 liter enclosure) X 2
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