Building a Home Theater for about $5K, have a few questions????????? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 31 Old 04-24-2012, 07:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Hello,
I have been reading and doing research for a few weeks, there is a lot to absorb. Thank you all for the information you provide on this outstanding forum.

This is my situation- I already have a 60" Sharp TV, my next step is AVR, Bluray, and Speakers. For these I have about a $5-6K budget. The room is a bonus room over the garage, it has 3 skylights and 1 window in the front. It is 14X25 with 8 foot ceilings, however the wall height on each side of the 14 foot width is 4 feet due to the ceiling sloping down. 90% or more will be Home Theater, the other 10% will be music.

This is what I am thinking so far-

Bluray- Oppo BDP-93- $499
AVR- Leaning towards Marantz SR6006 or SR7005, budget will be $1500 or so.

This leaves $3-4k for speakers

I am very interested in a few options, curious what you think-

1. Definitive Tech- I am highly interested in the Mythos ST system with the Ten Center and Gem XL rears, I would more than likely buy from bajawaverunner, right now it would be $3450.

2. Definitive- Lower cost option would be the Mythos STS with the nine center and the Gems for $2680 from Baja, I am thinking the ST's might be worth the extra, but with my room size and needs maybe I am wrong.

3. Monitor Audio- Silver Series RX6 AV12 system. This is RX6 fronts, RX Center, RXW-12 Sub, and RXFX rears. My problem is I can not find a place that I can demo them and can not find a place to buy them either.

4. Paradigm- Not sure which ones would work best for my budget????

This is where I stand so far, I am fairly new so I would appreciate any opinions.

Thank you!!!!
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post #2 of 31 Old 04-24-2012, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnut12 View Post


This leaves $3-4k for speakers

3. Monitor Audio- Silver Series RX6 AV12 system. This is RX6 fronts, RX Center, RXW-12 Sub, and RXFX rears. My problem is I can not find a place that I can demo them and can not find a place to buy them either.

Monitor Audio is here
http://home-audio.audioadvisor.com/s...udio+rx+silver

Oppo is good. I also get good results from Panasonic.

I would keep the receiver budget under $1000 - and focus towards
good speakers and subwoofers.

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post #3 of 31 Old 04-24-2012, 08:23 AM
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I agree spend less on a receiver...... The new Onkyo 818 looks pretty sweet with Audyssey Mult EQ XT32. The street price should be about $900.

Also get a sub or 2 from an internet direct company, no matter what kind of speakers you get. Look at subs from SVS, Hsu Research, Outlaw Audio, Epik, Rythmik, etc...... I would really consider dual subs in the $600/each price range for your setup.

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post #4 of 31 Old 04-24-2012, 08:50 AM
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Do you have a size/placement restriction for the center channel (wall mount, small shelf, etc.)?

I would go with a PS3 (with media remote) over an expensive BR player personally.

You can get a Marantz 6006 for only $750 as a refurb (2 year warranty still).

(That's only $1050 spent now for BR player and AVR)
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post #5 of 31 Old 04-24-2012, 09:16 AM
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Also check out Acsend. They seem to be getting high praise here. The money you save on ID speakers can get you a very nice sub.

http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages...SRM1/srm1.html

I love that natural bamboo look!

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post #6 of 31 Old 04-24-2012, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnut12 View Post

Hello,
I have been reading and doing research for a few weeks, there is a lot to absorb. Thank you all for the information you provide on this outstanding forum.

This is my situation- I already have a 60" Sharp TV, my next step is AVR, Bluray, and Speakers. For these I have about a $5-6K budget. The room is a bonus room over the garage, it has 3 skylights and 1 window in the front. It is 14X25 with 8 foot ceilings, however the wall height on each side of the 14 foot width is 4 feet due to the ceiling sloping down. 90% or more will be Home Theater, the other 10% will be music.

This is what I am thinking so far-

Bluray- Oppo BDP-93- $499
AVR- Leaning towards Marantz SR6006 or SR7005, budget will be $1500 or so.

This leaves $3-4k for speakers

I am very interested in a few options, curious what you think-

1. Definitive Tech- I am highly interested in the Mythos ST system with the Ten Center and Gem XL rears, I would more than likely buy from bajawaverunner, right now it would be $3450.

2. Definitive- Lower cost option would be the Mythos STS with the nine center and the Gems for $2680 from Baja, I am thinking the ST's might be worth the extra, but with my room size and needs maybe I am wrong.

3. Monitor Audio- Silver Series RX6 AV12 system. This is RX6 fronts, RX Center, RXW-12 Sub, and RXFX rears. My problem is I can not find a place that I can demo them and can not find a place to buy them either.

4. Paradigm- Not sure which ones would work best for my budget????

This is where I stand so far, I am fairly new so I would appreciate any opinions.

Thank you!!!!

With such a high bias towards HT, I would get speakers with high sensitivity, directivity and good power handling. The dynamics of HT are very demanding, especially if you like to listen to movies fairly loud. For a movie based system, I would look at something like the Klipsch RF-7 II's for mains, RC-64 II for center and RS-62's for surrounds. I am an HT guy, not a music guy. I have gone through many speakers. My room is set up so that I have the ability to play my system at clean reference levels. After listening to the great dynamics, I could not go back to speakers that can't do the dynamics that I am looking for. If we can help you, drop us a line.

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post #7 of 31 Old 04-24-2012, 10:32 AM
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Sub: VTF-15H

Speakers: Can't make any recommendations but stick to high-sensitivity.

Amp: Can't make any recommendations, I use separates (XPA-2 + UMC-1)

- Kh[a]os

 

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post #8 of 31 Old 04-24-2012, 10:37 AM
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I have the def tech sts with gem xl. I have them in a non dedicated living room on either side of a 60 in kuro. I was extremely limited in placement options and aesthetics. I also cannot put a sub in that room so those speakers were a great fit with a very small footprint.

I am really really happy with the sound from such small footprint speakers and built in subs and placed very close together with no room treatments. They seem to be tolerant of a non dedicated space. They are easily driven with a denon receiver. I will check on the model number and watt/ch when I get home. I highly doubt you need to step up to the st model. They are very loud and clean and rich. I did an AB. Comparison with the b& w cm series and matching b&w sub and it was very close. In the end the space constraints won out and I don't think I am missing a thing. So I am very pleased and have zero itch to upgrade in that room which is really saying something. I will be buying a mythos 9 for use as a center this week. The phantom center has been working quite well actually thus far.

I second the cheaper receiver and the ps3
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post #9 of 31 Old 04-24-2012, 12:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Great replys so far.

Funny thing is I have a PS3 in my basement that I do not even use, the kids use the Wii.

I like the idea of spending a little less on the Receiver, I am a fan of Onkyo and Yamaha as well as Marantz.

I am very open to using a ID for any of the speakers, I prefer quality over "Name Brand" companies that spend so much on advertising, that is why I was reluctant to look at Paradigm. Nothing against them, I just see them advertised everywhere.
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post #10 of 31 Old 04-24-2012, 12:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Right now I have no placement restrictions with the Center, is there a preference?? Should it be at a certain height? I can wall mount or just put in on the entertainment shelf in front of the TV.
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post #11 of 31 Old 04-24-2012, 12:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

Monitor Audio is here
http://home-audio.audioadvisor.com/s...udio+rx+silver

Oppo is good. I also get good results from Panasonic.

I would keep the receiver budget under $1000 - and focus towards
good speakers and subwoofers.

Thank you for the link, I could not find anywhere, I wonder if they are flexible on the price, I would think they would be, but know some vendors do not allow price changing.
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post #12 of 31 Old 04-24-2012, 01:06 PM
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I would not get the Oppo (I am aware how fantastic it is) and not spend $1500 for a receiver (I have a Marantz 6006) and spend the more of the budget on speakers.

this will free up another 1k for speakers. Find a clearanced Marantz, and get speakers that are high efficiency. Remember to pick a great subwoofer.

AVR: Marantz 7008 Phono: Pro-Ject Debut III Speakers: BW CMC2 + 2xCM9 + Energy 2xCB-10 (rear)
TV: Panasonic 65ZT60, Samsung 60F5300
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post #13 of 31 Old 04-24-2012, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnut12 View Post

Right now I have no placement restrictions with the Center, is there a preference?? Should it be at a certain height? I can wall mount or just put in on the entertainment shelf in front of the TV.

Well ideally your front 3 speakers would be identical in every aspect. Most people cannot accommodate a vertical speaker at ear height for a center. I'm going to assume a typical horizontal center will fit your space. The reason I ask is because many people have a tiny, shallow shelf/mantle they intend on using for the center.

One option that fits your price range, and would allow for an ideal LCR setup, is the Klipsch Heresy III. This is a 24" tall speaker with an angled stand, designed to be set on the floor (or it can be placed on a stand at ear height).



This might look a little odd in a living room, but if this room is designated as an entertainment/HT area it shouldnt matter. The clean dynamics and uniform sound will be hard to match with any other recommendation. With a very high sensitivity any decent receiver will push these effortlessly. Then you would get something like RS-52II for surround.

A pair of HSU subs to fit your remaining budget would round things out.
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post #14 of 31 Old 04-24-2012, 01:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skidawgz View Post

I would not get the Oppo (I am aware how fantastic it is) and not spend $1500 for a receiver (I have a Marantz 6006) and spend the more of the budget on speakers.

this will free up another 1k for speakers. Find a clearanced Marantz, and get speakers that are high efficiency. Remember to pick a great subwoofer.

So glad I found this forum, I will put more towards Speakers.

Excuse me being a Rookie, but how do I know if Speakers are more High Efficiency than others?
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post #15 of 31 Old 04-24-2012, 01:26 PM
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There is a sensitivity rating for speakers (which is technically different from efficiency but the two are interchangeable in layspeak). You send 2.83 volts at some frequency or range of frequencies and whatever comes out is how you measure sensitivity. The louder a speaker plays at 2.83 volts, the higher sensitivity it is. This means less amplification is required and dynamic compression resulting in distortion is less likely.
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post #16 of 31 Old 04-24-2012, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmichaelf View Post

There is a sensitivity rating for speakers (which is technically different from efficiency but the two are interchangeable in layspeak). You send 2.83 volts at some frequency or range of frequencies and whatever comes out is how you measure sensitivity. The louder a speaker plays at 2.83 volts, the higher sensitivity it is. This means less amplification is required and dynamic compression resulting in distortion is less likely.

He can look at the spec sheets too can't he You're going to make him buy a fancy calculator, and some electrician test gear

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post #17 of 31 Old 04-24-2012, 01:45 PM
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Great thread!

I'd keep the receiver budget as low as possible and still have pre-outs on all channels in case you want to add external amplification later on.

High-sensitivity speakers are a good suggestion too. I like the RF-7II and Heresy-III recommendations there, but I am biased since I also run Klipsch Heritage speakers.

The biggest bang for the buck in subs is DIY, but looks may matter to you (and time and tools needed to build).

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post #18 of 31 Old 04-24-2012, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmichaelf View Post

There is a sensitivity rating for speakers (which is technically different from efficiency but the two are interchangeable in layspeak). You send 2.83 volts at some frequency or range of frequencies and whatever comes out is how you measure sensitivity. The louder a speaker plays at 2.83 volts, the higher sensitivity it is. This means less amplification is required and dynamic compression resulting in distortion is less likely.

Proper sensitivity rating are done at 1w/1m. 2.83v is a misleading way of rating and ends up overstating by 3db. A speaker that is rated 90db at 2.83v is actually only an 87db sensitivity speaker.
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post #19 of 31 Old 04-24-2012, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmichaelf View Post

There is a sensitivity rating for speakers (which is technically different from efficiency but the two are interchangeable in layspeak). You send 2.83 volts at some frequency or range of frequencies and whatever comes out is how you measure sensitivity. The louder a speaker plays at 2.83 volts, the higher sensitivity it is. This means less amplification is required and dynamic compression resulting in distortion is less likely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Djoel View Post

He can look at the spec sheets too can't he You're going to make him buy a fancy calculator, and some electrician test gear

Djoel

More to it than that. All of the specs that I list below actually can have the same sensitivity. 2.83 volts @ 8 ohms is one watt.

8 ohm speaker, 88db 1 watt/1 meter (measured in room)
6 ohm speaker, 89.5db 2.83 volts/ 1 meter (measured in room)
4 ohm speaker, 91db 2.83 volts/1 meter (measured in room)
8 ohm speaker, 84db 1 watt/1 meter (measured in Anechoic chamber)
6 ohm speaker, 85.5db 2.83 volts/ 1 meter (measured in Anechoic chamber)
4 ohm speaker, 87db 2.83 volts/1 meter (measured in Anechoic chamber)

So looking at the above we have sensitivity measurements from 84db to 91db and yet they are the same. This is a huge difference when you consider that it takes double the power to increase 3db. I have seen speakers measured in more methods than I listed above. I have seen them measured in pairs in room and I have seen them measured in room in a corner. Both of those methods artificially inflate the sensitivity measurement. If the method of measurement does not tell you how the speaker/speakers were measured, you really do not know a whole lot.

OPer, the Heresy suggestion above is a good suggestion. Very musical speaker that can do the dynamics of HT. If you have any questions or wish to discuss farther, shoot us an email.

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post #20 of 31 Old 04-24-2012, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasteru View Post

Proper sensitivity rating are done at 1w/1m. 2.83v is a misleading way of rating and ends up overstating by 3db. A speaker that is rated 90db at 2.83v is actually only an 87db sensitivity speaker.

Agreed, but only if we are talking about a 4 ohm speaker. If it is a 6 ohm speaker then it is 1.5db high. If it is 8 ohm then it is the same as 1 watt/ 1 meter, but even then you still need to know where it was measured.

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post #21 of 31 Old 04-24-2012, 07:17 PM
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Carnut, we've digressed on the sensitivity subject but there are more to speakers than this one spec. On and off axis frequency response and directivity, frequency response range, and compression and distortion characteristics. Most of these issues are covered very handily by any of the brands you'll get recommendations to check out. There are compromises in every design.

Beyond the speakers, since you're looking to spend a good amount of cash, you should really look into at least basic room treatments. There are several very good theater build threads that discuss the topic ad nauseam. Some common applications absorb everything on the front wall and first reflections on the floor, sides, and ceiling. Then use some combination of diffusion and absorption for the rest, paying special attention to the rear wall. There's a science to it and the application is unique to every room. The basics, however, will generally get you to a much better spot than where you started.
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post #22 of 31 Old 04-24-2012, 07:28 PM
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OK so my first comments were related to your interest in the Mythos system but I will add that I am in the process of making a dedicated HT space and you mentioned that the system will be 90% HT.

My goals are very similar to what AV Science Sales 5 said in his earlier post. I currently have Klipsch RF-83's for mains and RC-64 for center, RS-62 for surrounds.

I second Jay1 suggestion about the front speakers being identical in every way including height. I am thinking about selling the RC-64 and buying matching RF-83 as a center. The RF-83's will go behind an acoustically transparent projection screen. If you can't do that then get it as close to the middle as possible. That could mean placing it above or below the screen. There is a recommendation from this Audioholics article that the center channel be placed within 30 degrees vertically if at all possible. Here is a link to page 2 http://www.audioholics.com/education...teq-pro-page-2

Another disadvantage to the STS's. The built in subs on the STS are great for their size but for HT use I would want a dedicated sub...or 2. In fact I am thinking of going with 4 DIY subs. Each with 2 MFW-15 drivers.

For optimum results you need to be thinking about room treatments which can be very technical. I finally caved in and decided to use the room layout service from the Erskine Group that is offered here through AVS.

Go to the Audio theory, Setup and Chat forum and look in the stickies. The thread titled Setting up your Home Theater 101 has tons of helpful links.
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post #23 of 31 Old 04-24-2012, 07:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you all, there is actually more to this than I initially thought, all your input is greatly appreciated.
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post #24 of 31 Old 04-24-2012, 09:14 PM
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There's some great value in Energy speakers right now and I'd take a look at them in this price range. So I'm going to go in a different direction but with the discounts on the speakers I don't think you are losing much value but still maximizing the processing and sub aspects. These aren't as efficient as the Klipsch but they are still fairly efficient and easy to drive and sound great for music as well.

RC 70's x2 800
RC LCR 250
Veritas surround x4 = 800
HSU VTF 15 x2 = 1,600
Denon 4311 = 1,300 Calling Electronics Expo

4,750 Shipped

Use your PS3 as the blu ray and if you have the room you could upgrade the LCR to 3 70's across the front or even put the rest into some room treatments. The speakers won't be as loud as the Klipsch but should have good balance and the subs should absolutely slam which is huge for HT. That 4311 can eq multiple subs and has great auto calibration, you could even upgrade it to pro by going a little over budget. Or you could also go past 7.1 with that receiver and pick up a pair of veritas minis or RC10s as heights or wides and fit right into the budget.
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post #25 of 31 Old 04-25-2012, 10:37 AM - Thread Starter
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So many options, I am going to start spending time going to dealers to listen to them.

I have had a Klipsch system in the past and I did notice they sound much different in your house than the show-rooms. I did love my Klipsch Synergy and realize this budget will buy a pretty significant upgrade to that.
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post #26 of 31 Old 04-25-2012, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnut12 View Post

So many options, I am going to start spending time going to dealers to listen to them.

I have had a Klipsch system in the past and I did notice they sound much different in your house than the show-rooms. I did love my Klipsch Synergy and realize this budget will buy a pretty significant upgrade to that.

Get ready for an interesting journey - there are some good options
out there, that will be a big step up for you.

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post #27 of 31 Old 04-25-2012, 05:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Now I really looking into the Klipsch RF-7ii with the RC-64ii, they seem to some great deals on B-Stock that is Brand New, but has the wrong veneer (Really do not care, I think they will look great based on what I read)

I did love the Klipsch Synergy and they do not even compare to these.

Now I am debating seperate AMP, I do not have any clue how to wire all this crap or set it up. LMAO My brother is great at this stuff, might have to give him a ring, to bad he is not local. He is a HUGE Audio guy, I love to listen to it, but do not have a clue beyond that.
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post #28 of 31 Old 04-25-2012, 07:23 PM
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The wiring is incredible simple, but to make everything look professional just takes some practice.

I would suggest you buy a 2nd sub before you purchase a separate AMP. I'd still say spend most of the money on speakers. May is the time most of the brands found in Big Box stores refresh their line. There will be a lot of receivers out on clearance. Grab one that has full pre-outs if you want to add a separate amp (for now or later).

If you pick efficient speakers, they should not be starved for power.

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post #29 of 31 Old 04-25-2012, 07:47 PM - Thread Starter
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I am thinking about going through Sound Distributors for the RF-7ii package, it comes with the 2 RF-7ii fronts, RC-64ii Center, and RS-62ii Rears. It also comes with a Marantz SR7005AV and a Free Sub I probably would not use. It is a significant deal in my opinion especially with the 15% off coupon.

This would be at the higher part of my budget, but would still leave me $1000 or so for a Sub, I think that would be plenty.

I know most said to go lower on the receiver, but the Marantz is esentially being added for around $1000, I think that is an outstanding deal.
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post #30 of 31 Old 04-25-2012, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnut12 View Post

Now I really looking into the Klipsch RF-7ii with the RC-64ii, they seem to some great deals on B-Stock that is Brand New, but has the wrong veneer (Really do not care, I think they will look great based on what I read)

I did love the Klipsch Synergy and they do not even compare to these.

Now I am debating seperate AMP, I do not have any clue how to wire all this crap or set it up. LMAO My brother is great at this stuff, might have to give him a ring, to bad he is not local. He is a HUGE Audio guy, I love to listen to it, but do not have a clue beyond that.

Please shoot me an email.

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