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post #1 of 27 Old 04-24-2012, 09:18 AM - Thread Starter
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I need some recommendations for in ceiling 5.1 setup without breaking the bank. I will be using a Denon 2808 to power them and the room size is 13 x 18. Thanks.
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post #2 of 27 Old 04-24-2012, 01:16 PM
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Good luck getting any responses. I have been asking that same question for over a week now. I guess nobody around here has an opinion unless it supports spending thousands of dollars.
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post #3 of 27 Old 04-24-2012, 01:22 PM
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Because most of don't make the sacrifice of aesthetics for performance? If I did have to compromise for inwall or inceiling speakers the choices for quality I've seen are kinda pricey as would be the installation to do it right...but that depends on your definition of breaking the bank so what's your budget? You want to mount all 5.1 speakers in the ceiling? You know what the .1 part stands for, yes?

ps You did search the forums first, right?

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post #4 of 27 Old 04-24-2012, 04:49 PM
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I recently spent $3000 on in-ceiling speakers from B&W. For the LCR I went with B&W 818 ($800 a piece) and B&W 684 ($450 a pair) for the rear. I also bought a Rel T9 sub for about $1100. All of this purchased at Magnolia (Best Buy).

I have no regrets on the sub. It is awesome. I have big regrets on going with in-ceiling for the LCR. The sound is excellent for in-ceiling, but the sound stage is projected down into the room and not across the room. I scored big points from the wife, but have been sorely disappointed with the sound stage.

I would highly recommend in-wall speakers on the wall of your TV (if you must hide the equipment) or go with bookshefl on stands for lower profile view or floorstanders if you can tolerate the looks. You will pay more (perhaps double at least) to have the same quality of sound from in-walls as you will from the bookshelf or floorstanders.

B&W speakers are expensive. For in wall you can also consider Atlantic Technology.
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post #5 of 27 Old 04-24-2012, 05:35 PM
 
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There are a number of factors with installing an in-ceiling system. First for the sound to relate to the picture, the picture needs to be high on the wall, such as a TV over fireplace or projector screen mounted on the ceiling.

Second, and this is a big one. For speakers to sound their best they need to aim in the direction of the listeners. Most ceiling speakers do not do come close to this. The inexpensive ones tilt slightly about 15 degrees but not enough to give good sound in the listening area. Here is some math to help.

We'll start with your head being ~4.5ft off the ground when seated with 8 foot ceiling. For the example let's say you sit 10 feet from your TV and the speakers are above the TV. The speakers would have to be angled 70 degrees to be aimed at the listener's head. The speaker that tilts 15 degrees is not a great choice for this situation but this is what most inexpensive ceiling speakers are.

Now what about the dispersion of the speaker. A good speaker will still have a good frequency response +/- 30 degrees or more of axis. So narrow your search to speakers that angle ~40 degrees and your likely to get something that sounds a LOT better for this application.

Some brands that have these speakers Triad, Episode, Snell (now out of business, but some closeout pricing might still be found), Definitive Technology, Infinity, JBL, Thiel on ceiling speakers, and I'm sure I am missing some.

To get even better sound it is good to look for an in-ceiling speakers that are built into an encloseure. Speakers sound different depending on the amount of space behind them, so many of the open back speakers might not sound the greatest if they weren't designed for the approximate cavity space they will be placed. This is true of in-wall speakers as well.

The least expensive in-ceiling LCR speaker that I know of which has a decent angle is about $450 each MSRP, street price might be a little less. I'm not sure if this is breaking the bank for the original poster. If this is more than one wants to spend another solution might be better choice. Possibly an LCR speaker bar for the front 3 speakers, or possibly in-wall or on-wall speakers around your display. You could use some inexpensive open back in-ceiling speakers for surrounds if budget is tight. The surrounds aren't as critical as little dialogue comes from them. Some dual tweeter models can often work good for surrounds.

Hope this helps.
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post #6 of 27 Old 04-24-2012, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laserhick View Post

I need some recommendations for in ceiling 5.1 setup without breaking the bank. I will be using a Denon 2808 to power them and the room size is 13 x 18. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vas216 View Post

Good luck getting any responses. I have been asking that same question for over a week now. I guess nobody around here has an opinion unless it supports spending thousands of dollars.

We would be happy to help you guys. Just shoot us an email so that we can discuss specifics of your needs and we should be able to come up with something that will work for both of you.

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post #7 of 27 Old 04-24-2012, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laserhick View Post

I need some recommendations for in ceiling 5.1 setup without breaking the bank. I will be using a Denon 2808 to power them and the room size is 13 x 18. Thanks.

What is breaking the bank?
What is your room layout?
Where is your display placed? Height?
Where is you seating location?
Do you listen to music and movies? What ratio of each?
How loud do you like to listen to movies or music?


Asking your questuion is like me asking for car recommendations for work, but only asking it be good on gas. I didn't say what fuel economy I would like, how much I want to spend, whether I need it for cargo or not, etc. etc. etc.

More info is needed for ANYONE to make a good recommendation.


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post #8 of 27 Old 04-24-2012, 07:42 PM
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I am not a fan of front channel in-ceiling speakers.
However, this is very good closeout pricing for Snell.
http://www.accessories4less.com/make...de-Each/1.html

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post #9 of 27 Old 04-24-2012, 08:15 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

I am not a fan of front channel in-ceiling speakers.
However, this is very good closeout pricing for Snell.
http://www.accessories4less.com/make...de-Each/1.html

Nice speakers but not enough of an angle for most LCR applications, the tweeter is angled 20 degrees but the woofer aims straight down. These are what I am referring to.
http://www.snellacoustics.com/ProductDetails/3400.asp
They were being closed out.
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post #10 of 27 Old 04-24-2012, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL View Post

These are what I am referring to.
http://www.snellacoustics.com/ProductDetails/3400.asp
They were being closed out.

Ok, thanks

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post #11 of 27 Old 04-25-2012, 01:14 AM
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Episode makes their 500 series in-ceiling speaker that has the woofer and tweeter angled. They go for around $300 each, so they are an affordable angled option.

Triad's most affordable, angled in-ceiling speaker is the Bronze/8 Satellite which retails for $450 each. Or the Silver/6 Satellites for $500 each.


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post #12 of 27 Old 04-25-2012, 04:25 AM
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I have a set of these and like them pretty well, bought them on specs. alone.
http://www.outdoorspeakerdepot.com/mkspul8paces.html

Woofer: 8” Kevlar Cone
Tweeter: Pivoting 1” aluminum dome
Power handling: 15 - 200W
Frequency Response 25Hz - 22kHz
Sensitivity 92db
Contour Switches: ±3dB Bass and ±3dB Treble
Impedance: 8 ohms
Unit Dimension: Diameter 10-3/4” X Depth 4-7/8”
Cut-Out Diameter: 9-7/8”
Quick-turn mounting arms for easy installation
Weather-resistant design includes powder-coated grill that will not rust
Warranty 10 Yr
New Construction Bracket OSD-NCBC8-K
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post #13 of 27 Old 04-25-2012, 04:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 02Lightning View Post

I have a set of these and like them pretty well, bought them on specs. alone.
http://www.outdoorspeakerdepot.com/mkspul8paces.html

Woofer: 8 Kevlar Cone
Tweeter: Pivoting 1 aluminum dome
Power handling: 15 - 200W
Frequency Response 25Hz - 22kHz
Sensitivity 92db
Contour Switches: ±3dB Bass and ±3dB Treble
Impedance: 8 ohms
Unit Dimension: Diameter 10-3/4 X Depth 4-7/8
Cut-Out Diameter: 9-7/8
Quick-turn mounting arms for easy installation
Weather-resistant design includes powder-coated grill that will not rust
Warranty 10 Yr
New Construction Bracket OSD-NCBC8-K

Those speaker do not pivot towards the listening position. They would not nearly be as good for front speakers that way.


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post #14 of 27 Old 04-25-2012, 04:39 AM
 
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The Episode 500 is only angled about 15 degrees and wouldn't be a good choice for LCRs in most situations. The Episode is good speaker and priced very well for its performance. Episode does make a model that has a good angle for LCRs and that would be the ES-HT700-ICLCR-S but they are $799 each MSRP.

The problem is there are a LOT of companies that make these round type angled speakers that angle 10-20 degrees. Many companies market them as LCRs but they really are not suited for that unless you sit very close or have very tall ceilings. But for most they are not the right speaker for this application.
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post #15 of 27 Old 04-25-2012, 04:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laserhick View Post

I need some recommendations for in ceiling 5.1 setup without breaking the bank. I will be using a Denon 2808 to power them and the room size is 13 x 18. Thanks.

As mentioned above the Triad in-ceiling Bronze http://www.triadspeakers.com/products/icb8lcr.html would be an excellent choice, if in your budget and your Denon 2808 handles 4 ohm loads.

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post #16 of 27 Old 04-25-2012, 05:04 AM
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Originally Posted by ifor View Post

Those speaker do not pivot towards the listening position. They would not nearly be as good for front speakers that way.

The woofer does not angle but they do sound good.
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post #17 of 27 Old 04-25-2012, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 02Lightning View Post

The woofer does not angle but they do sound good.

Compared to...


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post #18 of 27 Old 04-25-2012, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL View Post

The Episode 500 is only angled about 15 degrees and wouldn't be a good choice for LCRs in most situations. The Episode is good speaker and priced very well for its performance. Episode does make a model that has a good angle for LCRs and that would be the ES-HT700-ICLCR-S but they are $799 each MSRP.

The problem is there are a LOT of companies that make these round type angled speakers that angle 10-20 degrees. Many companies market them as LCRs but they really are not suited for that unless you sit very close or have very tall ceilings. But for most they are not the right speaker for this application.

I only mentioned them as they were the least expensive, angled speakers I could find.


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post #19 of 27 Old 04-27-2012, 04:40 PM
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I also considered in-ceiling speakers but I know nothing about them. I did come across a deal on these JBL L228C's for $90 each. http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...L&prop17=L228C

Would they be good for any part of a 5.1 or 7.1 system? My space would be approximately 12' x 20' or 12'10" x 32' in my basement but that space is shared with a pool table.
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post #20 of 27 Old 04-27-2012, 08:15 PM
 
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I wouldn't use them for that application, they point straight down.
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post #21 of 27 Old 04-28-2012, 08:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Breaking the bank is over 2000 for the set of 5
The room size is 13 feet by 18 feet
The couch will be along the back wall
The tv will be mounted above a mantle about 6.5 feet off of the floor
I already have a klipsch sw12 sub
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post #22 of 27 Old 04-29-2012, 01:14 AM
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I'm the same dilemma, having a small living and connected dining room, was on a quest to find good in ceiling speakers without breaking the bank, found these candidates:
http://www.noble-fidelity.com/prod/s...sp?prodid=1003
15 degrees woofer offset along with pivoting tweeter. they have 6.5" and 8" version, 6.5" are $299 each.
review for the 6.5":
http://hometheaterreview.com/noble-f...aker-reviewed/
review for the 8":
http://hometheaterreview.com/noble-f...aker-reviewed/

HTD recently release the HD-R65AIM with 18 degrees woofer offset along with pivoting tweeter:
http://www.htd.com/Products/high-def...iling-speakers
these are cheaper than the Noble, $160 a pair and i think they offer 30 days in home trial. U can always buy just one pair to try risk free. The customer reviews looks promising.

As for me, I have about 6" gap between bottom of TV and top of fireplace, so i'm looking into passive soundbar instead of in celing. Good luck!
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post #23 of 27 Old 04-29-2012, 08:29 AM
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If you insist of using inceilings, these definitive UIW RCS are in your budget:

http://www.lsound.no/Media/Cache/Ima...253598923.jpeg

You can find them for 300-350 each on ebay frequently. Especially check out bajawaverunner, which is the definitive technology factory store on ebay. They don't have any right now, but they do much of the time.
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post #24 of 27 Old 04-29-2012, 09:15 AM
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Not to derail the thread, but any thoughts on using in-ceilings *just* for the rear channels? I'm considering the Definitive UIW RSS-III for the rear channels in one of my rooms where I'm having a hard time finding a good place to mount rear speakers with WAF. The L/C/R would still be regular freestanding (or wall-mounted) speakers.
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post #25 of 27 Old 04-29-2012, 10:15 PM
 
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Laserhick your budget is decent and depending on the layout you have some options. The Def Techs could be a consideration, their angle appears decent. I haven't used them so can't comment. Triad would be another with speakers in that range. Depending on layout you might want to spend more on the LCRs and less on the surrounds. The surrounds depending on placement might not need as much of an angle as the LCRs allowing for a less expensive surround.
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post #26 of 27 Old 04-29-2012, 10:39 PM
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Triads would fit the bill:
3 Inceiling Silver/6 Sat and a pair of Omniround 6 speakers for the rears, $2000 for all.

Definitive Technology:
3 UIW RCS III for the fronts and a pair of UIW 63/A for the rears, $1930.


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post #27 of 27 Old 04-30-2012, 04:17 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharding View Post

Not to derail the thread, but any thoughts on using in-ceilings *just* for the rear channels? I'm considering the Definitive UIW RSS-III for the rear channels in one of my rooms where I'm having a hard time finding a good place to mount rear speakers with WAF. The L/C/R would still be regular freestanding (or wall-mounted) speakers.

In wall/ceiling speakers work very well as rear channel speakers. I have been using them for years without any problems.

Parts Express offers quite a large selection of in-wall speakers: http://www.parts-express.com/wizards...at&srchCat=762
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