Speakers ~$10K for rock, alternative and some pop. Not Jazz or Classical. - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 411 Old 06-29-2012, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by smasher50 View Post

i'm probualy one out of a hundred but don't think i'll ever go back to speakers with crossovers again.again just my 2 cents and good luck on your journey to speaker nirvana

You're not alone, one of the things I find so special about Gallo Speakers is that they're either crossoverless, or if there is one it's minimal.

So much media, so little time...

 

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post #362 of 411 Old 06-29-2012, 04:24 PM
 
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Originally Posted by smasher50 View Post

fwiw, i don't know if you have the reference 3a grand veenas still on your list but i still think you should at least give a listen at least you'll know what speakers that have no crossovers in their designs sound like .
Perhaps you are hearing what you believe, but in reality, that speaker has filter components...aka a "crossover". Not everyone understands the electro-mechanical nature of these things of course.
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Originally Posted by smasher50 View Post

i went through the same thing you are going through now but with bookshelves in the $2000-$3000 range which i think is much more demanding because there are hundreds in this price rangewhen i came across the reference 3a mm de capo i 's and that was it, they sound so smooth and good from bottom to top end with incredible sound stage.
Speaking of soundstage, they actually took some reality snapshots of that smoothness.
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Originally Posted by smasher50 View Post

i'm probualy one out of a hundred but don't think i'll ever go back to speakers with crossovers again.again just my 2 cents and good luck on your journey to speaker nirvana
Not at all. In fact, Bose with their 901s and sugar cubes et al, probably outsell the typical brands recommended here by a 100-1 ratio...and they too have that yummy crossover-less smoothness that you are enamored with. You are far from alone.

cheers,

AJ
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post #363 of 411 Old 06-29-2012, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by AJinFLA View Post

Speaking of soundstage, they actually took some reality snapshots of that smoothness.
Not at all. In fact, Bose with their 901s and sugar cubes et al, probably outsell the typical brands recommended here by a 100-1 ratio...and they too have that yummy crossover-less smoothness that you are enamored with. You are far from alone.
cheers,
AJ

Man, those measurements look like crap! Like Bose. biggrin.gif

But yeah, millions of people absolutely love Bose and their crossover-less systems. biggrin.gif

Zu Audio is another crossover-less beast. And their measurements are pure crap as well. biggrin.gif

But hey, as long as the owners love the sound quality.
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post #364 of 411 Old 06-29-2012, 06:32 PM
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the new 800 line is crazy awesome. We had a client buy a pair of diamond 803s as rears for his media room!
but if the speaker doesnt have to be sexy try some Genelecs. I dont know how you would sample a pair without contacting a dealer who has a showroom or would be willing to bring a pair from stock to your house. I like the HT210s. i think they will run you around 3,000+ each.
http://www.genelec-ht.com/products/active-2-way/ht210b/
they dont look like much from the outside but theres a reason why so many recording studios use them to playback music.
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post #365 of 411 Old 06-29-2012, 06:37 PM
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the new 800 line is crazy awesome. We had a client buy a pair of diamond 803s as rears for his media room!

If only they objectively measured more like Revel Ultima2 and KEF Reference....

But, as long as the buyers/ owners think the 800s sound crystal clear and lifelike accurate, that's all it matters.
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post #366 of 411 Old 06-29-2012, 07:24 PM - Thread Starter
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I am sitting listening to the 205/2s in my media room and heard things on Talking Heads Slippery People that I've not heard before. They fit in perfect also and they look awesome, better than I imagined. I can hardly wait to compare to the Studio2s.

AJ - I do believe the 685s over emphasize the ghostly sound on Hide in Your Shell but I am not sure I'll ever be able to listen to them again except for background.

This is such a great hobby IMO.

Main Kef: Reference 205/2 & 202/2c, Surrounds: Kef XQ40, Velodyne Optimum 12, Integra DHC 80.3, Ayre K-5xeMP, Oppo BDP-103, Bryston 4Bsst2, Parasound Halo A31. Second B&W: 685 (3), CCM618, Def Tech Powerfield 1500, Onkyo TX-NR1008, Zone 2 Klipsch AW650.
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post #367 of 411 Old 06-29-2012, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by jima4a View Post

I am sitting listening to the 205/2s in my media room and heard things on Talking Heads Slippery People that I've not heard before. They fit in perfect also and they look awesome, better than I imagined. I can hardly wait to compare to the Studio2s.
AJ - I do believe the 685s over emphasize the ghostly sound on Hide in Your Shell but I am not sure I'll ever be able to listen to them again except for background.
This is such a great hobby IMO.

After you listen to the KEF 205/2 and Studio2, there is no going back to B&W and most speakers out there. eek.gif
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post #368 of 411 Old 06-29-2012, 08:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

After you listen to the KEF 205/2 and Studio2, there is no going back to B&W and most speakers out there. eek.gif

I wish I could have heard Jim Salk's SoundScape 8s with Dennis Murphy's crossover design but if that could be better I'd need new adjectives... :-)

Main Kef: Reference 205/2 & 202/2c, Surrounds: Kef XQ40, Velodyne Optimum 12, Integra DHC 80.3, Ayre K-5xeMP, Oppo BDP-103, Bryston 4Bsst2, Parasound Halo A31. Second B&W: 685 (3), CCM618, Def Tech Powerfield 1500, Onkyo TX-NR1008, Zone 2 Klipsch AW650.
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post #369 of 411 Old 06-29-2012, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJinFLA View Post

Perhaps you are hearing what you believe, but in reality, that speaker has filter components...aka a "crossover". Not everyone understands the electro-mechanical nature of these things of course.
Speaking of soundstage, they actually took some reality snapshots of that smoothness.
Not at all. In fact, Bose with their 901s and sugar cubes et al, probably outsell the typical brands recommended here by a 100-1 ratio...and they too have that yummy crossover-less smoothness that you are enamored with. You are far from alone.
cheers,
AJ

Uncontrolled woofer breakup, and drivers out of phase off axis?

The level of engineering with some really expensive "hifi" gear really is amazing.
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post #370 of 411 Old 06-29-2012, 09:27 PM - Thread Starter
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About 20 years ago B&W 801 Matrix Series 3 made a big impression on me, still the most "being there" experience I've had. However, they were ruthless on less than steller recordings so I decided to stop my audiophile journey and be happy with great mid fi as I called it rather than change my music choices. The 205/2s are not shy about making the recording quality very obvious but I have enough decent recordings to make this move well worth it. Wow to have a job to listen to all these different speakers recommended by the AVS community and review them - where can I sign up? I may even expand my genres but not through ITunes purchases, that is for sure. Come on Apple, at least do Apple Lossless if not HD.

Main Kef: Reference 205/2 & 202/2c, Surrounds: Kef XQ40, Velodyne Optimum 12, Integra DHC 80.3, Ayre K-5xeMP, Oppo BDP-103, Bryston 4Bsst2, Parasound Halo A31. Second B&W: 685 (3), CCM618, Def Tech Powerfield 1500, Onkyo TX-NR1008, Zone 2 Klipsch AW650.
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post #371 of 411 Old 06-29-2012, 10:00 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jima4a View Post

AJ - I do believe the 685s over emphasize the ghostly sound on Hide in Your Shell but I am not sure I'll ever be able to listen to them again except for background.
This is such a great hobby IMO.
Hey, don't blame me wink.gif
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Originally Posted by jima4a View Post

I wish I could have heard Jim Salk's SoundScape 8s with Dennis Murphy's crossover design but if that could be better I'd need new adjectives... :-)
No CapFest for you?

cheers,

AJ
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post #372 of 411 Old 06-30-2012, 03:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AJinFLA View Post

Hey, don't blame me wink.gif
No CapFest for you?
cheers,
AJ

No CapFest, my wife would not go for it plus I need the budget for my new system. I wish I could have, I would have enjoyed free beer among all the great gear. Would have liked to hear your use of the concentric drivers.

Main Kef: Reference 205/2 & 202/2c, Surrounds: Kef XQ40, Velodyne Optimum 12, Integra DHC 80.3, Ayre K-5xeMP, Oppo BDP-103, Bryston 4Bsst2, Parasound Halo A31. Second B&W: 685 (3), CCM618, Def Tech Powerfield 1500, Onkyo TX-NR1008, Zone 2 Klipsch AW650.
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post #373 of 411 Old 06-30-2012, 09:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by jima4a View Post

No CapFest, my wife would not go for it plus I need the budget for my new system. I wish I could have, I would have enjoyed free beer among all the great gear. Would have liked to hear your use of the concentric drivers.
Who invited her???confused.gif....biggrin.gif
You are auditioning some very nice speakers. Tough call between the KEF & Revel...both excellent. Best o luck.

cheers,

AJ
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post #374 of 411 Old 06-30-2012, 10:27 PM
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Hello,

Haven't perused the entire thread eek.gif
You may wish to consider active speakers, e.g., ATC.
They're pricey, but worth considering on the secondary market cool.gif


Vbr,
Sam

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post #375 of 411 Old 06-30-2012, 11:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Greg121986 View Post

These are slightly outside of your budget, but some of my favorites for $10-$15K that I have listened to extensively are
Vivid B-1. $15,000, by far my favorite for the most transparent and "real life" sound I've ever heard.
Kudos Cardea C30. $12,000. I own them. Passed on the Harbeth M40.1 to get the Kudos because they have much more controlled bass response.
Harbeth Monitor 40.1 $12,000. Incredibly impressive mid-range.
Marten Django. I think this one is $15,000. This has HUGE bass response. Very, very detailed and transparent. I really think this one would annihilate the others but I have not spent enough time listening to be able to call it my new favorite.
These are all currently available for auditioning at my local dealer near Metro Detroit. I'm not sure where you're located, but if you ever make it to the Metro Detroit area I would encourage you to check this place out! PM Me if you're interested.

Still working through your list. Checked out your Kudos Cardea C30s. Appears to be another amazing speaker, 5 stars from WhatHiFi says something to me. Not to mention HiFi Choice's Loudspeaker of the Year award for 2008. All Seas drivers, 2 & 1/2 way design. Another speaker worth checking out. Are these rear ported?

Edit: the Harbeth Monitor 40.1 also looks like a very good speaker, incredible midrange as you noted. However, the efficiency would preclude it for HT use IMO.

Main Kef: Reference 205/2 & 202/2c, Surrounds: Kef XQ40, Velodyne Optimum 12, Integra DHC 80.3, Ayre K-5xeMP, Oppo BDP-103, Bryston 4Bsst2, Parasound Halo A31. Second B&W: 685 (3), CCM618, Def Tech Powerfield 1500, Onkyo TX-NR1008, Zone 2 Klipsch AW650.
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post #376 of 411 Old 07-01-2012, 02:18 PM
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If not going the identical LCR route for HT. You should strongly consider the options different brands offer for complimentary center channels within that same product line. Some companies that have been suggested don't even offer center channels, or the ones they do are kind of just there to fill a gap and aren't engineered to quite as high a standard.

An example during my own auditioning process would be ELAC, their towers are pretty incredible yet their center channel was woefully lacking -- which for me was a deal-breaker unfortunately.

Why let facts or common sense get in the way of your opinions.

Quick shot of my gear/theater.
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post #377 of 411 Old 07-01-2012, 02:42 PM - Thread Starter
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If not going the identical LCR route for HT. You should strongly consider the options different brands offer for complimentary center channels within that same product line. Some companies that have been suggested don't even offer center channels, or the ones they do are kind of just there to fill a gap and aren't engineered to quite as high a standard.
An example during my own auditioning process would be ELAC, their towers are pretty incredible yet their center channel was woefully lacking -- which for me was a deal-breaker unfortunately.

I concur. If I go Studio2 then I will get the Voice2 which has the same drivers. If I go 205/2 then I will go 202/2c which has similar drivers to the 203/2 but same UniQ. Right now I am happy with the 205/2 so I may pick after hearing the Studio2 s

Main Kef: Reference 205/2 & 202/2c, Surrounds: Kef XQ40, Velodyne Optimum 12, Integra DHC 80.3, Ayre K-5xeMP, Oppo BDP-103, Bryston 4Bsst2, Parasound Halo A31. Second B&W: 685 (3), CCM618, Def Tech Powerfield 1500, Onkyo TX-NR1008, Zone 2 Klipsch AW650.
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post #378 of 411 Old 07-01-2012, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by jima4a View Post

I concur. If I go Studio2 then I will get the Voice2 which has the same drivers. If I go 205/2 then I will go 202/2c which has similar drivers to the 203/2 but same UniQ. Right now I am happy with the 205/2 so I may pick after hearing the Studio2 s

It's going to be a difficult decision between 205/2 & Studio2. If they sound equally exquisite to you, the KEF system would be more cost effective. biggrin.gif

I might have forgotten, but have you also auditioned the B&W 802D just for kicks? biggrin.gif
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post #379 of 411 Old 07-01-2012, 03:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

It's going to be a difficult decision between 205/2 & Studio2. If they sound equally exquisite to you, the KEF system would be more cost effective. biggrin.gif
I might have forgotten, but have you also auditioned the B&W 802D just for kicks? biggrin.gif

No, I did not try to audition the 803 or 802Ds as our local dealer stopped retail last summer. :-( I would still love to hear them as even though they are polarizing, they still have a strong following). The only recent B&W speaker I've heard besides my 685s and two sets of ceiling speakers for surrounds was the discontinued CM7. It was much better than the Paridigms (low end towers) but IMO a bit of a disappointment for their mid line speakers. I have heard the 800s are a significant jump over the CMs so I would love to get the chance to audition them. Heck, I would love to audition just about every speaker that has been suggested on this Thread. May take this on as a second career and use a listening panel approach to reviews in a set listening area, never know.

I agree on the Kef vs Revel, can't wait to hear the Studios.

Main Kef: Reference 205/2 & 202/2c, Surrounds: Kef XQ40, Velodyne Optimum 12, Integra DHC 80.3, Ayre K-5xeMP, Oppo BDP-103, Bryston 4Bsst2, Parasound Halo A31. Second B&W: 685 (3), CCM618, Def Tech Powerfield 1500, Onkyo TX-NR1008, Zone 2 Klipsch AW650.
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post #380 of 411 Old 07-01-2012, 06:00 PM - Thread Starter
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As much as I dislike the thought of MP3/4s reducing the information, the base recording has much more to do with whether you can listen as the system gets better, as I am learning and many of you already know. I am listening to a demo SACD and just finished with DVD-A so hearing HD which is fantastic. But more of my collection is being relegated to the IPod or pool area (the Yamaha outdoor speakers don't care too much). As much as I like Green Day, I was already limited before on which tracks I could play, now it appears as none of American Idiot on my main system. Fratellis also not so good but Modest Mouse is sweet. What (and why) do they do with the recoding? I have some ITunes purchases that sound decent and others yuck. Now if I can get a remaster of Jethro Tull.

Edit: I mean there are older recordings that are just thin and a bit veiled and then there are others that just get grating if you listen on a revealing system. Why?

Main Kef: Reference 205/2 & 202/2c, Surrounds: Kef XQ40, Velodyne Optimum 12, Integra DHC 80.3, Ayre K-5xeMP, Oppo BDP-103, Bryston 4Bsst2, Parasound Halo A31. Second B&W: 685 (3), CCM618, Def Tech Powerfield 1500, Onkyo TX-NR1008, Zone 2 Klipsch AW650.
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post #381 of 411 Old 07-01-2012, 07:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c1ferrari View Post

Hello,
Haven't perused the entire thread eek.gif
You may wish to consider active speakers, e.g., ATC.
They're pricey, but worth considering on the secondary market cool.gif

Wow, I did not realize how many British speaker companies there are. I guess they have had my attention for quite a few years with Kef and B&W but I was barely scratching the surface apparently. Thanks for sharing!

Main Kef: Reference 205/2 & 202/2c, Surrounds: Kef XQ40, Velodyne Optimum 12, Integra DHC 80.3, Ayre K-5xeMP, Oppo BDP-103, Bryston 4Bsst2, Parasound Halo A31. Second B&W: 685 (3), CCM618, Def Tech Powerfield 1500, Onkyo TX-NR1008, Zone 2 Klipsch AW650.
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post #382 of 411 Old 07-02-2012, 07:23 PM
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Dennis Murphy & Delmond Won are changing the appearance/ aesthetics of the Philharmonic 3 speakers and thus increasing the price to $3,500/pr.

You might wait to see what the new Phil3 looks like before pulling the trigger.

I want to say again that these speakers sound really awesome - amazing.
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post #383 of 411 Old 07-02-2012, 07:44 PM - Thread Starter
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I have been pretty much following the Phil thread and was aware of the upcoming price increase but not aware of any major change in aesthetics?

Main Kef: Reference 205/2 & 202/2c, Surrounds: Kef XQ40, Velodyne Optimum 12, Integra DHC 80.3, Ayre K-5xeMP, Oppo BDP-103, Bryston 4Bsst2, Parasound Halo A31. Second B&W: 685 (3), CCM618, Def Tech Powerfield 1500, Onkyo TX-NR1008, Zone 2 Klipsch AW650.
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post #384 of 411 Old 07-03-2012, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by jima4a View Post

I have been pretty much following the Phil thread and was aware of the upcoming price increase but not aware of any major change in aesthetics?

Kind of top secret until the CapFest show. We don't know what the new Phil3 looks like, but we know it's a change in aesthetics - probably to please the wives. eek.gifbiggrin.gif

Will cost the extra $500. biggrin.gif

But, you can never go wrong with KEF Reference2 or Revel Ultima2.

Will be looking forward to your Studio2 impressions. biggrin.gif
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post #385 of 411 Old 07-03-2012, 07:00 AM - Thread Starter
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I follow the Phil Thread (as I do with the Salk Thread) because I believe they make great speakers and their owners are passionate about them. $3500 would still be a bargain with no changes but if they improve the WAF, that would be great. I really wish I could have gone to CapFest and heard Dennis' Phils and AJ's Soundfield Monitors among others.

Main Kef: Reference 205/2 & 202/2c, Surrounds: Kef XQ40, Velodyne Optimum 12, Integra DHC 80.3, Ayre K-5xeMP, Oppo BDP-103, Bryston 4Bsst2, Parasound Halo A31. Second B&W: 685 (3), CCM618, Def Tech Powerfield 1500, Onkyo TX-NR1008, Zone 2 Klipsch AW650.
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post #386 of 411 Old 07-03-2012, 12:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Well the 205/2s were taken away yesterday evening mad.gif but the Studio2s were set up this morning biggrin.gif. They are being broke in now. It is amazing how much they opened up over the course of about 5 songs. I will need to give it at least 24 hours of run in before trying to listen critically but I do have a quick update for AJ.

The Studio2s emphasize the ghostly sound in Hide in Your Shell much like my old 103/4s and current 685s did/do. Both the 205/2 and Studio2s do the ball rattle in Everybody Hurts clearer than the JBL Array 1400s, of course this is all IMO.

I may just stay for the full 24 hr break-in as these are already fanstastic. No, must go to the bank so I can purchase the ones that I pick...I am still here.tongue.gif

Main Kef: Reference 205/2 & 202/2c, Surrounds: Kef XQ40, Velodyne Optimum 12, Integra DHC 80.3, Ayre K-5xeMP, Oppo BDP-103, Bryston 4Bsst2, Parasound Halo A31. Second B&W: 685 (3), CCM618, Def Tech Powerfield 1500, Onkyo TX-NR1008, Zone 2 Klipsch AW650.
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post #387 of 411 Old 07-03-2012, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by jima4a View Post

Well the 205/2s were taken away yesterday evening mad.gif but the Studio2s were set up this morning biggrin.gif. They are being broke in now. It is amazing how much they opened up over the course of about 5 songs. I will need to give it at least 24 hours of run in before trying to listen critically but I do have a quick update for AJ.
The Studio2s emphasize the ghostly sound in Hide in Your Shell much like my old 103/4s and current 685s did/do. Both the 205/2 and Studio2s do the ball rattle in Everybody Hurts clearer than the JBL Array 1400s, of course this is all IMO.
I may just stay for the full 24 hr break-in as these are already fanstastic. No, must go to the bank so I can purchase the ones that I pick...I am still here.tongue.gif

I bet the Studio2 has more bass than the 205/2. That may tip the scale. biggrin.gif
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post #388 of 411 Old 07-03-2012, 02:20 PM - Thread Starter
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I bet the Studio2 has more bass than the 205/2. That may tip the scale. biggrin.gif

For my room, the 205/2s were not lacking bass musically IMO. Actually, I kept being amazed with their bass. However, the Studios may dig a bit deeper. As they are breaking in they are starting to show some location adjustments will be needed to tame the bass as it is starting to resonate in the room.

Edit: Not sure if the boominess (spelling?) is due to more bass or my guess the bottom port. The 205s are front ported.

Main Kef: Reference 205/2 & 202/2c, Surrounds: Kef XQ40, Velodyne Optimum 12, Integra DHC 80.3, Ayre K-5xeMP, Oppo BDP-103, Bryston 4Bsst2, Parasound Halo A31. Second B&W: 685 (3), CCM618, Def Tech Powerfield 1500, Onkyo TX-NR1008, Zone 2 Klipsch AW650.
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post #389 of 411 Old 07-03-2012, 03:53 PM
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Jima4a - I haven't read this whole thread, except for the last couple of pages, but from what I gather you are limited to front wall placement. If you are experiencing "boominess", boundary reinforcement is the most likely culprit. Moving one or both speakers left, right, forward and back even an inch or two can make a big difference.

This one of several good reasons why I prefer satellite/subwoofer(s) setups. As stated, I haven't read through the whole thread and maybe you have already considered this and crossed the configuration off the list. Still, with your limited placement requirements, it is probably the best solution for good sound.

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post #390 of 411 Old 07-03-2012, 04:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Jima4a - I haven't read this whole thread, except for the last couple of pages, but from what I gather you are limited to front wall placement. If you are experiencing "boominess", boundary reinforcement is the most likely culprit. Moving one or both speakers left, right, forward and back even an inch or two can make a big difference.
This one of several good reasons why I prefer satellite/subwoofer(s) setups. As stated, I haven't read through the whole thread and maybe you have already considered this and crossed the configuration off the list. Still, with your limited placement requirements, it is probably the best solution for good sound.

The Studios are just breaking in so I will wait until that is done to mess with them. I don't have much left right to work with so it will be out or in and amount of toe in primarily. As noted, the 205/2s did not have issues. The Studios may just need a bit of a tweak.

Main Kef: Reference 205/2 & 202/2c, Surrounds: Kef XQ40, Velodyne Optimum 12, Integra DHC 80.3, Ayre K-5xeMP, Oppo BDP-103, Bryston 4Bsst2, Parasound Halo A31. Second B&W: 685 (3), CCM618, Def Tech Powerfield 1500, Onkyo TX-NR1008, Zone 2 Klipsch AW650.
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