Mirage:Highs are missing,voice is bit muddled setup - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 37 Old 05-16-2012, 05:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello All


after much research and just couple of auditions I recently bought Mirage OS3 CC for center and 4 OS3-sat for surrounds,Energy S10.3 for Subs, and Sony STR-DN 1020 as receiver , i have set my surrounds crossover at 70hz and subs at 40 hz.
the problem.
1. Voice in movies are muddled.
2. I am not getting the crisp highs through my surround back

what am i missing hear please let me know.


i have placed this in a hall which is 30 by 12 feet hall which also opens to the kitchen and doors for 2 rooms.

I am using only 20 by 12 feet as listening area.



Thanks
Ravi
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post #2 of 37 Old 05-16-2012, 06:22 PM
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Set your xover for the speakers at 80. OS3's don't have the type of drivers to dig low. Your subs should be receiving everything 80hz and below.

What type of research did you do?
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post #3 of 37 Old 05-16-2012, 07:53 PM - Thread Starter
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to be honest Venomous, i had few auditions in best busy on the speakers and the demonstrator suggested Mirage and i was impressed, then i looked into the forum and the read all the review abt the speakers on mirage frequency and then subs frequency level and then bought it. but as i said i missing those crisp highs and also the mids vocals.

OS3-sat is not made for highs like Bose?i know i sound like and i am an noob
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post #4 of 37 Old 05-16-2012, 08:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravishankarcp View Post

to be honest Venomous, i had few auditions in best busy on the speakers and the demonstrator suggested Mirage and i was impressed, then i looked into the forum and the read all the review abt the speakers on mirage frequency and then subs frequency level and then bought it. but as i said i missing those crisp highs and also the mids vocals.

OS3-sat is not made for highs like Bose?i know i sound like and i am an noob

I can still return all the speakers and the receivers that i bought(got speakers from amazon a month ago and receiver from costco 2 weeks back),if i need to buy different set, please suggest....
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post #5 of 37 Old 05-16-2012, 10:27 PM
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The little Mirage omnipolar speakers aren't bad at all, especially if watching movies will be your main use for them. They are an excellent value and great starter system for home theater/multichannel sound. They do offer more of a dispersed, spatial sound versus your more direct firing typical designs. You might find more traditional speakers give you a tighter acoustic image than omnipolar designs like the Mirage speakers. The Energy Take Classic 5.0 comes to mind as a solid value.

Depending how much you paid, you might want to think about returning the Sony receiver and trying something from Denon, Onkyo, Marantz instead. You could also do better than the Energy s10.3 sub for the money, but would be via Internet Distributed brands if you don't mind that (some people do). Such brands are SVS, HSU, Epik, Elemental Designs, etc. All that being said, swapping things out may or may not fix your problem....

Your room does sound quite huge for speakers that small, though, which may or may not be contributing to your feelings of missing those crisp highs and mids. I would have to be there and listen for myself. That's a lot of space for those little speakers/sub to fill up and "energize" the room so to speak. The speakers that the fellow at BestBuy was showing you -- are they the same ones you bought or were they bigger bookshelves or tower models? Did the demonstration take place on the sales floor or in one of their "demonstration" rooms? What type of equipment was the salesman using to power the speakers when he demonstrated them for you? Was the sub he was using the same sub (s10.3)?

Why let facts or common sense get in the way of your opinions.

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post #6 of 37 Old 05-16-2012, 10:28 PM
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Did you run the Sony's room correction algorithm? That might help. Also, the problem may be your room. Try different configurations (change the walls your speakers are set up on if possible) which may change the sound.

Play with the settings on your reciever. You may find something that works.

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post #7 of 37 Old 05-17-2012, 12:30 AM
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i had few auditions in best busy on the speakers and the demonstrator suggested Mirage

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post #8 of 37 Old 05-17-2012, 09:51 AM
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Mirage OMD line is nice, everything thing else is bassless. For what you paid for OS3's at BB, you could of gotten OMD15's from vanns. Huge improvement.
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post #9 of 37 Old 05-17-2012, 10:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomous View Post

Mirage OMD line is nice, everything thing else is bassless. For what you paid for OS3's at BB, you could of gotten OMD15's from vanns. Huge improvement.

I bought OS3-sat from Amazon for 125 a piece.i still wish to buy OMD15s probably returning 2 of OS3-Sat, any suggestions.
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post #10 of 37 Old 05-17-2012, 10:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AuralXTC View Post

Depending how much you paid, you might want to think about returning the Sony receiver and trying something from Denon, Onkyo, Marantz instead. You could also do better than the Energy s10.3 sub for the money, but would be via Internet Distributed brands if you don't mind that (some people do). Such brands are SVS, HSU, Epik, Elemental Designs, etc. All that being said, swapping things out may or may not fix your problem....?

Thanks for looking into my issue AuralXTCm, I think the receiver should be one of the culprits here, i paid $300 in Costco for it, so i have couple of months to return them and buy something new elsewhere , I think i have compromised on every aspect here like i bought OS3-sat instead of OMD 15s bought S10.3 instead of something better, this time i dont want to compromise on the receiver when i buy a new one, i am looking for an 7.1 systems with atleast 110 watts per channel,should have 4 hdmi input and should support 3d. my listening pref is 70 % movies and 30% music. can you please suggest one.my price range is $500 to $700, with future proffing so that i dont have to change them for next couple of years, am i being resonable with my demand??

Quote:
Originally Posted by AuralXTC View Post

The speakers that the fellow at BestBuy was showing you -- are they the same ones you bought or were they bigger bookshelves or tower models? Did the demonstration take place on the sales floor or in one of their "demonstration" rooms? What type of equipment was the salesman using to power the speakers when he demonstrated them for you? Was the sub he was using the same sub (s10.3)?

In Best buy the guy showed me mirage prestige a smaller version of 0S3, but i did not worry too much abt the receiver or the subs at that point, i thought if i buy any subs or receiver with good review and specs it would be good, again my mistake i should have made a note abt all those details during the time of demo


also what i would like to infer from my experience with speakers is that OS3 highs are not as high as mirage prestige or omni sat ,are smaller speakers high are better than the bigger ones? but the speaker response on the higher end for these two speakers are the same in the specs http://www.miragespeakers.com/surround-speakers/
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post #11 of 37 Old 05-17-2012, 10:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NuSoardGraphite View Post

Did you run the Sony's room correction algorithm? That might help. Also, the problem may be your room. Try different configurations (change the walls your speakers are set up on if possible) which may change the sound.

Play with the settings on your reciever. You may find something that works.

Thanks for posting your thoughts NuSoardGraphite

I did the room calibration setup but was not satisfied, so i did the manual configuration myself,I dont have the flexibility for changing the placement of the speakers, mine is a rented apartment and the speaker wires are outside the wall visible to all (which my wife hates, so i am planning to decorate the wire with some plastic creepers/plants), i think what i need to do here is buy another receiver do the audition, with my existing speaker setup and pick one among the two.
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post #12 of 37 Old 05-17-2012, 10:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cavisboung View Post

i had few auditions in best busy on the speakers and the demonstrator suggested Mirage


cavisboung,If you are satisfied with the sound then i would suggest you make note of all the pieces during the demo like the surround speakers, center channel, receiver model and the subs and compare the prices and then make a decision.
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post #13 of 37 Old 05-17-2012, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravishankarcp View Post


I did the room calibration setup but was not satisfied, so i did the manual configuration myself,I dont have the flexibility for changing the placement of the speakers, mine is a rented apartment and the speaker wires are outside the wall visible to all (which my wife hates, so i am planning to decorate the wire with some plastic creepers/plants), i think what i need to do here is buy another receiver do the audition, with my existing speaker setup and pick one among the two.

Do not expect a lot of change in sound character, based on different
receivers. Sony has stepped it up - and the receiver handles power
better, than some more popular receivers. Different receiver, speaker
set up options can make some adjustments - however, the overall
speaker sonic character and resolution, does not change. And that is
some big open space you have there.
Sony
http://www.hometheater.com/content/s...-labs-measures

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post #14 of 37 Old 05-17-2012, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomous View Post

Set your xover for the speakers at 80. OS3's don't have the type of drivers to dig low. Your subs should be receiving everything 80hz and below.

I don't have personal experrience with those specific Mirage sats, but my gut tells me their little 4.5" woofer cannot handle 80Hz either. Personal experience with similar sized speakers showed me 100Hz, 120Hz or even 150Hz would very probably be a much better choice.

Sounds around the 80Hz crossover point still contain powerful elements, and at higher volumes with such a small driver that xover point could cause audible distortion, or even damage them.

If you think this sounds presumptuous of me, connect a small sat like that to a receiver with an 80Hz xover and then connect a larger speaker with say a 6.5 woofer of the same general quality. If it's like what I experienced, you'll easily hear (and see - watch that little woofer pulsate!) the difference. FYI: using music will make this easier since it will provide a continuous source of bass.
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post #15 of 37 Old 05-17-2012, 11:15 AM
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If you really want to address the problem, it starts with the speakers. Omni polar isn't for everyone ESP in a space where echoing is high. Could you take some pictures of this hallway everything is in? The receiver isn't the problem right now.
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Basically all omnidirectional speakers I've listened to exhibit an "airy" and slightly indistinct sound (that's the whole reason for their existance, so I'm not complaining). But this is the same reason why I personally don't like using them for the front channels in an HT system, particularly the center channel. For music though, particularly acoustic and certain large scale classical stuff, they can sound great.
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post #17 of 37 Old 05-17-2012, 12:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomous View Post

If you really want to address the problem, it starts with the speakers. Omni polar isn't for everyone ESP in a space where echoing is high. Could you take some pictures of this hallway everything is in? The receiver isn't the problem right now.

Venomous here are the pics

this is a temporary setup, i am relocating to new city then i am planning to mount the speakers on the walls at 6 ft.
LL
LL
LL
LL
LL
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post #18 of 37 Old 05-17-2012, 12:47 PM
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Rav, how low they sit is part of your issue. I figured you had os3 floorstanders and the satellites for the rear. It's important that these are at ear level. The beauty of these mirages is they can be mounted upside down with the tweeter pointed downward if mounted on the wall.It really helps in channeling the sound.

I've had mirages for many years, but they take a lot of trial and error to figure out. I'm giving you some suggestions that worked for me in the past. Try temporarily mounting them higher and see how they sound for you.
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post #19 of 37 Old 05-17-2012, 01:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Venomous View Post

Rav, how low they sit is part of your issue. I figured you had os3 floorstanders and the satellites for the rear. It's important that these are at ear level. The beauty of these mirages is they can be mounted upside down with the tweeter pointed downward if mounted on the wall.It really helps in channeling the sound.

I've had mirages for many years, but they take a lot of trial and error to figure out. I'm giving you some suggestions that worked for me in the past. Try temporarily mounting them higher and see how they sound for you.

Venomous, as u rightly pointed out my front speakers are sitting over a feet tall and the back surrounds at 4 feet (just on the same height as my listening positions).
I knew that the height could be an issue. but my point is during some scene in the movies when i go near the rear surrounds to check if the speakers are emitting the crisp highs then i fail to hear them( example breaking of glass ).

Just one more point with i think would make an impact could be that the rear speakers are connected via 16 guage wire which are like 23 to 25 feet in length (I though that the extra length will be useful while i am mounting the speakers in my new apartment) do you think that the extra length would make that difference??? probably the receiver is failing to push that much of sound over that long on a 16 guage wire??

Venomus thanks once again for spending time in looking into this issue
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post #20 of 37 Old 05-17-2012, 01:44 PM
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Well the best suggestion right now is put the receiver in multi channel stereo mode. See how all the speakers sound playing music. We will go from there pending your results.
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post #21 of 37 Old 05-17-2012, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravishankarcp View Post

Venomous, as u rightly pointed out my front speakers are sitting over a feet tall and the back surrounds at 4 feet (just on the same height as my listening positions).
I knew that the height could be an issue. but my point is during some scene in the movies when i go near the rear surrounds to check if the speakers are emitting the crisp highs then i fail to hear them( example breaking of glass ).

Just one more point with i think would make an impact could be that the rear speakers are connected via 16 guage wire which are like 23 to 25 feet in length (I though that the extra length will be useful while i am mounting the speakers in my new apartment) do you think that the extra length would make that difference??? probably the receiver is failing to push that much of sound over that long on a 16 guage wire??

Venomus thanks once again for spending time in looking into this issue

The speaker wire is not the issue, nor can you be sure the surround material you are listening to is providing high frequency sounds to the surround speakers.

Find some bright 2 channel music, something with a lot of cymbals for example and play it in stereo using your front speakers.

The try it with your rear speakers up front in place of the original fronts. Maybe you have a defective speaker or even two. Happens sometimes.

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post #22 of 37 Old 05-17-2012, 02:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomous View Post

Well the best suggestion right now is put the receiver in multi channel stereo mode. See how all the speakers sound playing music. We will go from there pending your results.

Venomous any suggestions for auditioning songs which are having crisp highs, so that i can download them and try it..just for audition
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post #23 of 37 Old 05-17-2012, 02:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravishankarcp View Post

Venomous any suggestions for auditioning songs which are having crisp highs, so that i can download them and try it..just for audition

I tried "Summary of 69" in the multi stereo mode, after connecting my Iphone to the dock that came with the receiver, the sound filled the room but the crisp highs did not stand out, the song was in MP3 format and it is compressed as u know, should i have to play from the original CD that does not compress the sound?
note: i turned the Bass to the 25% sound level, so that basss will not over power the music
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post #24 of 37 Old 05-17-2012, 02:36 PM
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Which speakers aren't bright? Or are you saying all of them aren't bright? If all of them aren't bright, I would be looking at the Sony. Mirage are bright speakers by nature but I ony have experience driving them through Yamaha avr's.

My mp3s sound almost as good as my cd's and certainly stand it in crisp highs. So that wouldn't be the issue. Speaker cable size isn't going to be an issue either. It's to bad you don't have another avr lying around to try out.

Or it's possible your expectations are set to high as well.
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post #25 of 37 Old 05-17-2012, 03:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomous View Post

Which speakers aren't bright? Or are you saying all of them aren't bright? If all of them aren't bright, I would be looking at the Sony. Mirage are bright speakers by nature but I ony have experience driving them through Yamaha avr's.

My mp3s sound almost as good as my cd's and certainly stand it in crisp highs. So that wouldn't be the issue. Speaker cable size isn't going to be an issue either. It's to bad you don't have another avr lying around to try out.

Or it's possible your expectations are set to high as well.

Venomous the back surrounds don't soung good atall, or rather it is my perception, i will swap the speakers and will report back
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post #26 of 37 Old 05-18-2012, 01:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Venomous View Post

Which speakers aren't bright? Or are you saying all of them aren't bright? If all of them aren't bright, I would be looking at the Sony. Mirage are bright speakers by nature but I ony have experience driving them through Yamaha avr's.

My mp3s sound almost as good as my cd's and certainly stand it in crisp highs. So that wouldn't be the issue. Speaker cable size isn't going to be an issue either. It's to bad you don't have another avr lying around to try out.

Or it's possible your expectations are set to high as well.

I swapped the speakers they all sound equally good,if not bad.
as u said probably my expectations were high.


I will try to get my hands on one of the Yamaha receivers probably by end of June and will test the speakers against them.

Regarding "Highs" i was comparing with Bose system, i thought mirage was better than Bose,I think i can conclude that probably Bose low's & Mids are bad but high's are good, correct me if i am wrong
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post #27 of 37 Old 05-18-2012, 01:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

The speaker wire is not the issue, nor can you be sure the surround material you are listening to is providing high frequency sounds to the surround speakers.

Find some bright 2 channel music, something with a lot of cymbals for example and play it in stereo using your front speakers.

The try it with your rear speakers up front in place of the original fronts. Maybe you have a defective speaker or even two. Happens sometimes.

Thanks Kini for taking time to look into my post, as u mentioned i tried "be what u want to be" from Bacardi blast in 2 channel stereo mode, and to be honest i was really impressed.the way the highs stood out.

but other surround options are really bit mild or is it just my perception i dont know ,

any ways thank u, i am bit relived and happy, at-least speakers are not bad as i made/thought out to be
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post #28 of 37 Old 05-18-2012, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravishankarcp View Post

I swapped the speakers they all sound equally good,if not bad.
as u said probably my expectations were high.


I will try to get my hands on one of the Yamaha receivers probably by end of June and will test the speakers against them.

Regarding "Highs" i was comparing with Bose system, i thought mirage was better than Bose,I think i can conclude that probably Bose low's & Mids are bad but high's are good, correct me if i am wrong

Mirage put out good highs. Do you have any friends with a receiver? Perhaps check the speakers on their receiver.
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post #29 of 37 Old 05-18-2012, 03:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Venomous View Post

Mirage put out good highs. Do you have any friends with a receiver? Perhaps check the speakers on their receiver.

unfortunately none of my friends are into this Audio stuff , so i am planning to buy Yamaha just for audition and if it sounds good i will keep it and then I will return sony.

Thanks a ton for u r help Venomous!
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post #30 of 37 Old 05-18-2012, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravishankarcp View Post

unfortunately none of my friends are into this Audio stuff , so i am planning to buy Yamaha just for audition and if it sounds good i will keep it and then I will return sony.

Thanks a ton for u r help Venomous!

Not a problem. Keep us updated.
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