What's the audiophile word for this...? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 159 Old 05-24-2012, 06:00 PM - Thread Starter
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What is it called when musical notes seem to take on a three dimensional character and hang right in the air in front of you? I have listened to many good speakers and not all of them do this.

For example, some speakers project a sound image that seems more like a flat movie screen in front of you. You can hear and place all the instruments on the screen but it is all at the same depth. That is not what I am talking about.

What I am talking about is when the notes seem to be so close to you that you think you could grab them. Is this a thing? I would love to know.
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post #2 of 159 Old 05-24-2012, 06:11 PM
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Soundstage
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post #3 of 159 Old 05-24-2012, 06:23 PM
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trippin'

j/k
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post #4 of 159 Old 05-24-2012, 06:29 PM
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expensive...
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post #5 of 159 Old 05-24-2012, 06:44 PM
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Imaging, with a good front soundstage. Some people will also
use the term, holographic.

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post #6 of 159 Old 05-24-2012, 06:49 PM
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^^^

+1 Jim wins.

It truly is a beautiful thing.

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post #7 of 159 Old 05-24-2012, 07:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Okay, so what speakers are the best at holographic imaging?
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post #8 of 159 Old 05-24-2012, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelkingdom View Post

Okay, so what speakers are the best at holographic imaging?

deftech bipolars are a start...from there it gets crazy expensive id wager...

Doing what I do best...LIVIN!
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post #9 of 159 Old 05-24-2012, 08:09 PM
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My speakers are pornographic.
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post #10 of 159 Old 05-24-2012, 08:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelkingdom View Post

What is it called when musical notes seem to take on a three dimensional character and hang right in the air in front of you?

Stereo.

cheers,

AJ
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post #11 of 159 Old 05-24-2012, 08:55 PM
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My speakers are pornographic.

Does that mean you pay by the hour for that sweet soundstage?

"Guns for show, knives for a pro..."
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post #12 of 159 Old 05-24-2012, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by josh6113 View Post

deftech bipolars are a start...from there it gets crazy expensive id wager...

Yes, wonderful start!
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post #13 of 159 Old 05-24-2012, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelkingdom View Post

Okay, so what speakers are the best at holographic imaging?

What you should do is consider what your budget is, and then start auditioning speakers in and around that price range; find what sounds very good to you, and also build the soundstage to your liking.

All speakers have strengths and weaknesses, so establishing a budget and auditioning speakers until you find the right ones for you, is the best thing you can do.

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post #14 of 159 Old 05-24-2012, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelkingdom View Post

Okay, so what speakers are the best at holographic imaging?

Quote:
Originally Posted by callas01 View Post

What you should do is consider what your budget is, and then start auditioning speakers in and around that price range; find what sounds very good to you, and also build the soundstage to your liking.

All speakers have strengths and weaknesses, so establishing a budget and auditioning speakers until you find the right ones for you, is the best thing you can do.

Also, speaker setup has a lot to do with it. Although there are speakers that will seem to naturally image the music, a good setup can go a long way toward that 3D sound field.
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post #15 of 159 Old 05-25-2012, 05:59 AM
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Don't forget you will need a recording that has those details of "spatial" instruments engineered into it.
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post #16 of 159 Old 05-25-2012, 06:00 AM
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I always called that imaging. I'd say most people have never experienced it. It's a game-changer.

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post #17 of 159 Old 05-25-2012, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by postrokfan View Post


Does that mean you pay by the hour for that sweet soundstage?

Better than pay per stroke!
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post #18 of 159 Old 05-25-2012, 06:48 AM - Thread Starter
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I have some speakers that do this and some that don't. Interestingly, price does not seem to be the catalyst. While all my speakers do something well, not all of them have dancing notes.

B&W 805N do it

Magnepan MMG have amazing separation of musical instruments and physical placement but no dancing notes.

PSB Imagine B - most natural sounding human voice but no dancing notes

Selah RC3R - great neutral presentation but no dancing notes

Infinity Kappa Perfect mids (just the mids - not a comp set - in car) - dancing notes like crazy. The notes seem to be right there - they distract me from driving.

Altec Lansing 2.1 desktop computer speakers - the surprise of the bunch because these also have great dancing notes. The system was $50 at Staples.
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post #19 of 159 Old 05-25-2012, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJinFLA View Post

Stereo.

cheers,

AJ

yup!

The whole purpose of stereo imaging to create the illusion of a 3 dimensional soundstage from a set of point sound sources. The trend seems to be quanity over quality in terms of speaker set-ups these days (ie 7.1 and 9.1 setups)

It seems most of the audio industry has lost sight of that IMO.
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post #20 of 159 Old 05-25-2012, 09:17 AM
 
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Ok Mike, I usually have a few "dancing notes" on me for the "stage" when I go to Mons Venus.
Exactly what "dancing notes" are you referring to regarding spatial presentation aka "stage"?

cheers,

AJ
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post #21 of 159 Old 05-25-2012, 09:36 AM
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I call it "magic", because that's what it feels like when the right recording plays through the right setup.

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post #22 of 159 Old 05-25-2012, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
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@AJ - I thought I recognized the Soundfield Audio speakers at the Mons. Nice imaging there!
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post #23 of 159 Old 05-25-2012, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chikoo View Post

don't forget you will need a recording that has those details of "spatial" instruments engineered into it.

+1
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post #24 of 159 Old 05-25-2012, 10:43 AM
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I've been reading many of the speaker threads here, and I've noticed the imagiing from a speaker does not get talked about much. Usually people just mention how great the bass is or the highs, etc.

I'd love to know if $400 or $500 would buy me a pair of speakers with great imagiing.

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post #25 of 159 Old 05-25-2012, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
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I can definitely recommend the Magnepan MMGs for imaging. They cost $599

http://www.audioreview.com/cat/speak...4_1594crx.aspx
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post #26 of 159 Old 05-25-2012, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelkingdom View Post

Okay, so what speakers are the best at holographic imaging?

That is what I have been in pursuit of for many years. Holographic sound in my room. I had definitive technology bp7001's as my main l/r speakers which did anvery good job of creating that type of sound. I stumbled upon a pair of Carver al III's on Craig's list. They employ 4' dipolar ribbons. They bring the holographic experience to another level.of course the room and positioning of the speakers are important as well as the source material. My pre/pro has Audyssey XT32 onboard which also helped achieve the 3d sound stage.

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post #27 of 159 Old 05-25-2012, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffer65 View Post


I'd love to know if $400 or $500 would buy me a pair of speakers with great imagiing.

The Boston E60 speakers, are a good one
http://www.amazon.com/Boston-Acousti.../dp/B001H9O1CG

However, with good speakers - you do not push them against a wall and
do not stick them in a cabinet cubby hole, or on shelves. Give them some
room to breathe and radiate.

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post #28 of 159 Old 05-25-2012, 04:06 PM
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Dipolar & bipolar speakers are generating a different type of holographic image vs. the image a pair of monopolar speakers generate. The former are producing an additional image by virtue of their design, resulting in that airy and expansive quality they are known for, whereas monopoles are generating an image solely based on what's contained in the recording.

In other words, IMO the image produced by dipolars/bipolars is partly artificial.
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post #29 of 159 Old 05-25-2012, 04:41 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donutfan View Post

The former are producing an additional image by virtue of their design, resulting in that airy and expansive quality they are known for

No. Multi-polar speakers simply add more delayed reflections into the total sound power perceived. There is no "additional" image, mostly a spatially expanded one. There is still only one singer on solo recordings, perhaps slightly deeper in the "soundstage", less ultra-precision. Much like real life, though audiophiles/studiophiles wouldn't know that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by donutfan View Post

whereas monopoles are generating an image solely based on what's contained in the recording.

Unless you are listening in an anechoic chamber, no they do not. Plus exactly how do you know "exactly what is in the recording"?? What method are you using to determine that? Speakers? Headphones? Which ones? Were you there originally?

Quote:
Originally Posted by donutfan View Post

In other words, IMO the image produced by dipolars/bipolars is partly artificial.

Nope. Stereo itself is an artificial construct. Look it up, see how it's constructed. Multipolars are more artificially artificial?? Well....

Not aware of any controlled preference testing on consumers with monopole vs multipole in living rooms. No Harmans single poor example centered mono test doesn't count.

cheers,

AJ
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post #30 of 159 Old 05-25-2012, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJinFLA View Post

Stereo.

cheers,

AJ

This was my first thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by psgcdn View Post

I always called that imaging. I'd say most people have never experienced it. It's a game-changer.

Sadly, most people haven't. Including most audio enthusiasts. The majority of enthusiasts are more concerned with bass that is 10 dB hot than accurate L/R mains, properly set up.

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