Originally Posted by MrEastSide
I guess, I have just never heard a good, quality speaker, ever. And judging from a speaker's sensitivity, 95% of speakers on this site are junk that compress and hide the good parts of audio. With that, I shall take my leave.
Dont get your grippies in a wad! This is an excellent convo and I would ask everyone to keep an open mind here. With that said, do 95% of speakers on this site that people discuss compress at reference? yea probably. Do 95% of their listeners listen at reference? not a chance, so they are more than likely pleased as punch with their speakers. I know I like to have 105db peaks with close to 125 db peaks in the bass region when listening to movies (that would be reference +10 in the LFE category). After blowing through two pairs of lower sensitivity speakers listening at levels that I PERSONALLY require to enjoy the movie experience, I decided to go high effficiency with the JTR t12's. AT THESE PLAYBACK LEVELS THERE IS NO COMPROMISE, and furthermore, a high amount of speakers discussed in the speakers section are not capable of playback at those levels without compression. This is purely the mathematics of it. To be 100% truthful some folks actually prefer compressed sound and distortion without even knowing that that is what they like. Bottom line is not once in this thread has the consideration of the room (other than size) been taken into account. Are the rooms properly treated? treated at all or poorly treated? how are the speaker placements? These are all just as important as the speakers themselves. Omega has stated several times that he is commenting on an APPLES TO APPLES basis where the only thing changed was the speaker, same room, same electronics, etc. the same speaker in two different rooms is not going to have the same characteristics.
I have to agree with MK that this conversation is steering in biases that should and could easily be de-bunked with a proper frequency response reading. many folks once again dont prefer a flat freq. response, rather a house curve, or even a reverse bell-curve type response they may be used to hearing in their car on their daily commute. to be perfectly honest, I was one of those guys. I HATED a flat freq reponse at first but after getting used to it, and really watching and listening, it truly brings music and movies out of their shell, and you hear things you never did before.
Eastside, im sure you heard your fair share of good speakers and bad speakers, but try to just understand the science in all this, because it is there.
Originally Posted by jmichaelf
This may be true, but so is the statement that the trade offs in response are too great for high fidelity full(er) range playback. Very few people will trade wider bandwidth for 131dB SPL in the context of this conversation.
I dont think 131 peaks is at all what this is talking about, I think realistic playback at reference definitely IS what this is talking about, and yes, many speakers out there begin compressing and distorting before reference, and beyond that, your in the red zone. all the while people in many cases are running them off of AVR power that is not up to the task to get them to reference in the first place. Ill use 32 watts per channel on my denon to get my 101 db sensitive JTR's to as loud as I want, and my denon wont even break a sweat, but i still run them on external amp power, just to have extra power on tap. asking an 89 or 88 db sens speaker to do the same for an extended period of time? get your fire extinguisher out.
And just to state, I didnt trade a wider bandwidth for higher spl, in fact, i probably have more than most