JBL Synthesis K2 9.4 array for home theater...? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 58 Old 05-31-2012, 11:18 AM
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But in all reality, whether you choose JBL or Triad or another manufacturer, you have to make sure the room is right first. Otherwise spending all that money is wasteful if not installed in a properly treated room.

I did see you post over on the Triad thread, and I have to disclose, I used to be a salesperson for Radioactive AV, a company that was the number 1 dealer in the country for Synthesis and Performance for a couple of years before the housing crash. I also sold, and still do sell, Triad.

It would be hard to go wrong with either the JBL Synthesis system or the Triad Platinum system as they are both extremely wondeful.
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post #32 of 58 Old 05-31-2012, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by ifor View Post

Funny how JBL isn't using a SDP-40HD in their Northridge Synthesis theater.

What are they using? On a related note, I totally get why it's important to use the SDEC 4500 with the Synthesis speakers, but I don't understand why it's so important to use the SDP-40HD with the system? Doesn't the SDEC 4500 just do whatever it needs to with the signal it receive via the XLR inputs coming from whatever processor is used? It seems that if one wanted to use a Theta (to take advantage of better DACs) or Denon (to take advantage of the Denon Link), that would be a better option than using the SDP-40HD?
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post #33 of 58 Old 05-31-2012, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

Check out the Procella and Triad Platinum speakers as well.


+1 have the Plats and heard the Procella a couple of times. Both superior to the JBL Synth IMO.
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post #34 of 58 Old 05-31-2012, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sipester View Post

What are they using? On a related note, I totally get why it's important to use the SDEC 4500 with the Synthesis speakers, but I don't understand why it's so important to use the SDP-40HD with the system? Doesn't the SDEC 4500 just do whatever it needs to with the signal it receive via the XLR inputs coming from whatever processor is used? It seems that if one wanted to use a Theta (to take advantage of better DACs) or Denon (to take advantage of the Denon Link), that would be a better option than using the SDP-40HD?

It doesn't really do anything that any other processor does, but it's part of the Synthesis mantra, sell the whole package.
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post #35 of 58 Old 05-31-2012, 11:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by adidino View Post

+1 have the Plats and heard the Procella a couple of times. Both superior to the JBL Synth IMO.

Hey, thanks!

Have you heard the JBL Synthesis K2 9.4 set-up or Everest 11.4 set-up?

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post #36 of 58 Old 05-31-2012, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by ifor View Post

Funny how JBL isn't using a SDP-40HD in their Northridge Synthesis theater.

Not so funny when they have a higher end version in their Mark Levinson line, which is what they've been using in that theatre since the Nº502 came out. ML is a more impressive name/faceplate that Lexicon or Synthesis.

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post #37 of 58 Old 05-31-2012, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by sipester View Post

I don't understand why it's so important to use the SDP-40HD with the system?

It contains Lexicon's proprietary surround processing (LOGIC7) that is only available from Harman branded products, like Mark Levinson.

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post #38 of 58 Old 05-31-2012, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeTheaterGuy74 View Post

Hey, thanks!

Have you heard the JBL Synthesis K2 9.4 set-up or Everest 11.4 set-up?


I did. I heard them here at a local home who at them in a pretty well known home theater seen pictured in several home theater mags. I thought they were impressive but I still preferred the sound of plats. Don't get me wrong, they are impressive but there is better out there.

I would take a serious listen to the Triad Plats and the Procella.
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post #39 of 58 Old 05-31-2012, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ifor View Post

Funny how JBL isn't using a SDP-40HD in their Northridge Synthesis theater.

The SDEC inserts between the processor and the amp. Any processor and amp will do for the system. Although I would pick a very good processor and amp all the same.
If the equipment is going into the same room, I was also going to suggest looking at ATI for amp(s) as the JBL units have fans on the front of the units and are loud enough to hear them.

It's true, you can insert another processor, but you'll forego configureable Logic7 and the Phoenix Combicon (or DIN on older models) trigger set up for the amps. Of course, the unit JBL is using in the Eargle Theater is another Harman stablemate with a fancier brand name but the same pedigree: Mark Levinson instead of Lexicon or Synthesis®.

I'm pretty sure you knew that. It's not like they swapped in a McIntosh, Marantz, or something. Now that ATI owns Theta, maybe there will be better synergy there, but a Casablanca III HD would be quite a commitment, and it is a very flexible, pain-in-the-a$$ to set up.

The Synthesis® amps are ATI-manufatured amps, built to JBL specs. Yes, they do have fans, which if the amps are stacked in a rack or a closet are essential. When there's plenty of space and ventilation, the fans never seem to come on.

For my K2 stereo pair plus S2S subs, I went to the ATI factory near here and bought two ATI 2003 amps right off the line. Two channels of each amp power the HF and LF inputs, and the third channel powers the corresponding sub. Separated from each other and with nothing on top, they run cool to slightly warm, even under hard use. They're great amps. I would not stack them.

What I can afford, when I can afford it...
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post #40 of 58 Old 05-31-2012, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ifor View Post

But in all reality, whether you choose JBL or Triad or another manufacturer, you have to make sure the room is right first. Otherwise spending all that money is wasteful if not installed in a properly treated room.

I did see you post over on the Triad thread, and I have to disclose, I used to be a salesperson for Radioactive AV, a company that was the number 1 dealer in the country for Synthesis and Performance for a couple of years before the housing crash. I also sold, and still do sell, Triad.

It would be hard to go wrong with either the JBL Synthesis system or the Triad Platinum system as they are both extremely wondeful.

Yes, room, room, room. If I added the cost of my time even at $10 an hour, my time and the materials would exceed the cost of the system. Throw in the consultant's fee, the calibration, the screen, the projector, the sources, and it's seriously more than the system.

I drove out to Palm Desert when Radioactive hit the skids, and I got some good deals on a few pieces of Synthesis® gear, like S4Ai surrounds that will someday allow for expansion. It was kind of sad to see the place diminish like that.

What I can afford, when I can afford it...
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post #41 of 58 Old 05-31-2012, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeTheaterGuy74 View Post

That is one great thorough review!

Thank you VERY much.

It is GREATLY appreciated!

The Synthesis K2 array is on the top of my list...

The only thing I don't like about the JBL/Harman line, etc, is that the only dealers seem to only be in California...

I got the best deal and service from an authorized dealer in Memphis, TN. Even after shipping, it was far, far less that any CA dealer. The one problem I had was handled quickly at no charge. The dealer was great!

When I was looking for the JBL Performance Series for a 5.1 set up a few years before, again the CA dealers were already a pain. If I wasn't spending the big bucks, it wasn't worth their time. That's when things were good for them, and they felt they could be picky about their customers.

So I took the attitude that my $15-17k purchase was not important to them, thus I'd find someone who did value my business. An authorized dealer in upstate NY came to the rescue, and he got me an insane price to boot. I still have that set as my main surround music-only system.

When it was time to think about spending some serious money for a Synthesis® rig, I automatically dismissed any CA dealer I had tried to get to sell me the Performance gear, and relished the fact that I was spending big bucks elsewhere when they couldn't get any clients in the door due to the economic downturn. Boo-hoo and good-bye.

I've never had to pay anywhere near full retail for any of these, so if a dealer tries to get MSRP, just move on. Find a dealer who needs to sell at least as much as you need to buy. Then the dealing can begin.

What I can afford, when I can afford it...
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post #42 of 58 Old 05-31-2012, 05:13 PM
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Might as well go with the Everest setup.
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post #43 of 58 Old 05-31-2012, 07:27 PM
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That K2 has pretty finish. Bet that is adding a great deal to the cost not the sound.

If the JBL SDECs are the magic dust why can't you use any SSP and amp/s?

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post #44 of 58 Old 05-31-2012, 07:31 PM
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"you dont really have to give a damn about EQing for your room"

Ok...
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post #45 of 58 Old 05-31-2012, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

I did. I heard them here at a local home who at them in a pretty well known home theater seen pictured in several home theater mags. I thought they were impressive but I still preferred the sound of plats. Don't get me wrong, they are impressive but there is better out there.

I would take a serious listen to the Triad Plats and the Procella.

TA, funny I preferred the Plats and JBL over the Prolillies.

I trust the family is OK. Hug the little woman for me!

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post #46 of 58 Old 05-31-2012, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by mmiles View Post

TA, funny I preferred the Plats and JBL over the Prolillies.

I trust the family is OK. Hug the little woman for me!

Did you hear the Procella's last year at Cedia? The year before they were not impressive but this last show they sounded great. I think the demo was KD Lang singing Hallelujah on stage. The previous year was the Alice in Wonderland demo. Not impressive at all. Most were claiming they were just setup wrong.

Two little women now.. Our daughter was born in Feb.
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post #47 of 58 Old 05-31-2012, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by adidino View Post

Most were claiming they were just setup wrong.

Two little women now.. Our daughter was born in Feb.

That's the problem with most show demos: crappy room, no treatments, too close to the walls, too far into the corners, too far from the boundaries, wrong electronics (begged, borrowed, loaned so as to be featured), overzealous exhibitors, lots of shuffling in and out, too loud, too soft, not the right music... well...

I enjoy shows, and the array of gear is wonderful, as is meeting audio enthusiasts, nuts, and snobs. Nonetheless, I don't take much of what I hear there as representative of how things would be in better circumstances.

It's silly to believe that what you hear at a show is what you'll get at home, either good or bad. That is, unless you live in hotel room or suite.

Congrats on your girls.

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post #48 of 58 Old 06-01-2012, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by mmiles View Post

If the JBL SDECs are the magic dust why can't you use any SSP and amp/s?

SDECs are programmed with ARCOS room correction; nothing more magical than that. It's like when Audyssey used to sell a stand-alone EQ box. With equalization being done outboard, you can use any pre-pro (or receiver with pre-outs) and amps that you want. Of course, Harman would prefer you use one of their branded pre-pros (Synthesis, Mark Levinson, Lexicon), partly because their LOGIC7 modes have capabilities that other surround processing modes don't. But if that's not important to you, then you can use whatever you prefer.

Sanjay
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post #49 of 58 Old 06-01-2012, 06:21 AM
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A 14ft wide 2.4 screen is 5.83ft high or 70 inches. Not many of those JBL Cinema speaker will fit they are just to big ( tall ).

They will fit fine. You just use a fabric in the lower section below the screen.

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post #50 of 58 Old 06-01-2012, 10:05 AM
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AVSS5, Yeah you can do that I suppose with some frame modification and creative contraction to keep the screen taunt.

No I did not go to CEDIA last year but 2010 Procellia was indeed in a custom built room by a firm that was first claimed to be associated with DE then by show end they were denounced that association to my recollection.

I just know the Genelec and Tannoy (not been to CEDIA lately) are demoed in standard basic demo spaces and always sounded very well to me. Most demo rooms are standard materials with sound leaking out especially LF. 2010 was the year that Triad did the room in room demo. In fact Triad wanted to allow the dealers to sell room design turn key.

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post #51 of 58 Old 06-01-2012, 10:50 AM
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Here's my front stage with and withouth the fabric frames.
LL
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post #52 of 58 Old 06-01-2012, 01:53 PM
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Sweet!

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post #53 of 58 Old 06-02-2012, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

SDECs are programmed with ARCOS room correction; nothing more magical than that. It's like when Audyssey used to sell a stand-alone EQ box. With equalization being done outboard, you can use any pre-pro (or receiver with pre-outs) and amps that you want. Of course, Harman would prefer you use one of their branded pre-pros (Synthesis, Mark Levinson, Lexicon), partly because their LOGIC7 modes have capabilities that other surround processing modes don't. But if that's not important to you, then you can use whatever you prefer.

How much is a sdec 4500?

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post #54 of 58 Old 06-02-2012, 09:40 AM
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You could go with an Integra or Onkyo Pro (same thing, slightly different face plates) pre-amp/processor that has the Audyssey Pro kit compatibility. Save quite a bit of money that way.

I doubt you could ever hear the difference. Dolby Prologic IIx is very similar to Logic7 post-processing. Spend the money on better amps.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #55 of 58 Old 06-02-2012, 09:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

You could go with an Integra or Onkyo Pro (same thing, slightly different face plates) pre-amp/processor that has the Audyssey Pro kit compatibility. Save quite a bit of money that way.

I doubt you could ever hear the difference. Dolby Prologic IIx is very similar to Logic7 post-processing. Spend the money on better amps.

As a current Harman Kardon/Lexicon and Infinity (when they still made good stuff...) owner - Logic 7 is definitely different than any other sound processing out there...

And to my ear, the best...
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post #56 of 58 Old 06-02-2012, 10:10 AM
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If you want to spend thousands more... for Logic7 that is.

The over all sound quality on these pre-amp/processors is very, very good. Full array of XLR outputs as well.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #57 of 58 Old 06-02-2012, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

SDECs are programmed with ARCOS room correction; nothing more magical than that. It's like when Audyssey used to sell a stand-alone EQ box. With equalization being done outboard, you can use any pre-pro (or receiver with pre-outs) and amps that you want. Of course, Harman would prefer you use one of their branded pre-pros (Synthesis, Mark Levinson, Lexicon), partly because their LOGIC7 modes have capabilities that other surround processing modes don't. But if that's not important to you, then you can use whatever you prefer.

Sanjay, my understanding is that the SDEC units have proprietary firmware that allows the ARCOS data to be uploaded to them from the external calibration software running on a computer. I'm inferring from your comment that in addition to the firmware, the SDEC has the ARCOS room correction software in it, and the computer's software is just a data-collecting application that sends the information to the SDEC.

That seems a departure from the old DACS approach. I'm not saying either approach is a preference to me.

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post #58 of 58 Old 06-03-2012, 09:56 AM
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There is nothing magical about the SDECs. They are just loaded with a London Architect design file. It does not have any room correction software/calculations or anything like that. ARCOS runs on a external PC which knows the London Architect file, and uploads the calculated filters to the SDEC. All the logic lies in the computer software and the SDECs are just used for inputting filters, delays etc.

They are very good though!

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