8-ohm towers under $2000 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 25 Old 05-30-2012, 04:24 PM - Thread Starter
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I am considering the purchase of a pair of towers as a 2.0 system. Room is 18' W x 30' L x 9' H. Budget is $2000. Also, my key limitation is my receiver, which is only 8-ohm. I'm currently leaning towards HTD Level 3 towers, but there's nearly no reviews for those. Any other options?

I have looked at Swan Diva, but IMHO don't like the peek-a-boo eye-ball tweeter look.

I love the Onyx Strata Mini but can't find where it's being sold anymore. AV123 does not seem to sell it anymore. It's 8-ohm compatible as far as I know.

The Axiom M60 would work, but ran across a naysayer or two.

Many other options had to be dismissed due to my 8-ohm limitation.

Would like to hear your recommendations of other options.
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post #2 of 25 Old 05-30-2012, 04:40 PM
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post #3 of 25 Old 05-30-2012, 04:44 PM
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HTD's are nice - however, KEF and Focal are better.

KEF Q900
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it...10050302008005

Focal 726V
http://www.musicdirect.com/p-41254-f...eakers-pr.aspx

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post #4 of 25 Old 05-30-2012, 05:09 PM
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The Focal 726v are very nice speakers.
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post #5 of 25 Old 05-30-2012, 05:46 PM
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are these for music or tv/movies too if music what kind of music do you listen too

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post #6 of 25 Old 05-30-2012, 06:24 PM
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Also, some nice Wharfdales on sale at Music Direct. Not sure how they compare to KEF/Focal.

FAMILY ROOM SYSTEM--Legacy Signature II tower speakers, PSB Image 5T tower speakers, Denon AVR-X5200W, Krell FPB 400cx, Oppo BDP-83 universal disc player, RCA HD-DVD player, Samsung HL67A 750A TV
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post #7 of 25 Old 05-30-2012, 06:50 PM
 
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post #8 of 25 Old 05-31-2012, 08:04 AM
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Just purchased Def Tech 8040's for 799 each and they sound great.

Denon X3100W
Klipsch RB-61 II (Fronts), Klipsch RC-52 II (Center)
Deftech StudioMonitor 350 (surrounds)
Klipsch SW-115 (sub)
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post #9 of 25 Old 05-31-2012, 08:09 AM
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The KEF Q900 is a wonderful speaker, but its impedance goes down to around 3 ohms; that is not going to work.

A majority of speakers, including many RATED as 8 ohm speakers, actually go down to 4 or 5 ohms at some frequencies.

I am curious exactly what receiver is being used, because there are very few receivers that are truly "8 ohm only".

The Focal Chorus 726V is a very good speaker that is rated 8 ohms; They are $1799/pair from Music Direct.




Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

HTD's are nice - however, KEF and Focal are better.

KEF Q900
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it...10050302008005

Focal 726V
http://www.musicdirect.com/p-41254-f...eakers-pr.aspx

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post #10 of 25 Old 05-31-2012, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

The KEF Q900 is a wonderful speaker, but its impedance goes down to around 3 ohms; that is not going to work.

The Focal Chorus 726V is an outstanding speaker that is rated 8 ohms; They are $1799/pair from Music Direct.

Your right about KEF Q900, Stereophile reccomends a stronger receiver.

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post #11 of 25 Old 05-31-2012, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

The KEF Q900 is a wonderful speaker, but its impedance goes down to around 3 ohms; that is not going to work.

A majority of speakers, including many RATED as 8 ohm speakers, actually go down to 4 or 5 ohms at some frequencies.

I am curious exactly what receiver is being used, because there are very few receivers that are truly "8 ohm only".

The Focal Chorus 726V is an outstanding speaker that is rated 8 ohms; They are $1799/pair from Music Direct.

Just curious, can you add an amp to your receiver so you aren't so limited? You'd be happier I bet.

Kaboom.
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post #12 of 25 Old 05-31-2012, 09:00 AM
 
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Okay, what kind of AVR do you have that can't even play 4ohms?

Most $600 AVR (street price) from Denon, Yamaha, Pioneer, HK, Marantz, Onkyo can play) 4 ohms.
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post #13 of 25 Old 05-31-2012, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

Okay, what kind of AVR do you have that can't even play 4ohms?

Most $600 AVR (street price) from Denon, Yamaha, Pioneer, HK, Marantz, Onkyo can play) 4 ohms.

Until you crank it.... Many go into protection mode.
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post #14 of 25 Old 05-31-2012, 12:40 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomous View Post

Until you crank it.... Many go into protection mode.

All you have to do is increase the preamp/amp gain. For example, increase the channel levels in the AVR to 6.0 (Max is 12.0).

I know some guys had the problem of their AVR going into protection mode. I told them to increase the channel levels in the AVR. Now they no longer have that problem

One guy originally had his channel levels set at -4.0 (Audyssey automatic setup). His Denon 3311 kept on going into protection mode and shut down. Now his levels are back up to 0.0, and he never has any more issues.

But let's look at one $600 AVR (street price is more like $400): the Denon 2112.

AVR-2112CI’s left channel, from CD input to speaker output with two channels driving 8-ohm loads, reaches 0.1 percent distortion at 96.6 watts and 1 percent distortion at 117.5 watts. Into 4 ohms, the amplifier reaches 0.1 percent distortion at 79.9 watts and 1 percent distortion at 144.4 watts.

It can output 144 Watts into 4ohms. So for music listening, that is more than plenty.

If a speaker has a sensitivity of 90dB/1watt/1m, it would only take 1 Watt of power to produce 90db at 1 meter away. Certainly does not require 144watts.
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post #15 of 25 Old 05-31-2012, 01:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the suggestions so far.

I own a Sony STR-DE197. I want to use it in my new speaker system that I'm building from scratch, although it's old and very basic. The specs say nothing of 4 ohms, so I'm trying to be careful.

I'll be using it for music most of the time. The types of music I like include New Age, which tends to have a lot of mids and highs, focused bass, and some gentle vocals.

As for adding an amp, I suppose I could, although prefer not to because I want to max out my $2000 budget on the towers alone.

Question is, if speakers like the Philharmonic 1 says "at or above 4 ohms", will I risk blowing my receiver? I know some of you say I won't have a problem, but I need to be dead sure or otherwise I'm out of luck without a receiver and out of money.
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post #16 of 25 Old 05-31-2012, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

All you have to do is increase the preamp/amp gain. For example, increase the channel levels in the AVR to 6.0 (Max is 12.0).

I know some guys had the problem of their AVR going into protection mode. I told them to increase the channel levels in the AVR. Now they no longer have that problem

One guy originally had his channel levels set at -4.0 (Audyssey automatic setup). His Denon 3311 kept on going into protection mode and shut down. Now his levels are back up to 0.0, and he never has any more issues.

But let's look at one $600 AVR (street price is more like $400): the Denon 2112.

AVR-2112CI's left channel, from CD input to speaker output with two channels driving 8-ohm loads, reaches 0.1 percent distortion at 96.6 watts and 1 percent distortion at 117.5 watts. Into 4 ohms, the amplifier reaches 0.1 percent distortion at 79.9 watts and 1 percent distortion at 144.4 watts.

It can output 144 Watts into 4ohms. So for music listening, that is more than plenty.

If a speaker has a sensitivity of 90dB/1watt/1m, it would only take 1 Watt of power to produce 90db at 1 meter away. Certainly does not require 144watts.

this is interesting....so raising the gain on the channels prevents shutdown at loud levels?...does it put more power into the channel doing this or what?....would like clarification on this....

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post #17 of 25 Old 05-31-2012, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ballroomBoom View Post


I own a Sony STR-DE197. I want to use it in my new speaker system that I'm building from scratch, although it's old and very basic. The specs say nothing of 4 ohms, so I'm trying to be careful.

That is not one of the better receivers out there - I would not
use 4ohm speakers with it.

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post #18 of 25 Old 05-31-2012, 01:49 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by josh6113 View Post

this is interesting....so raising the gain on the channels prevents shutdown at loud levels?...does it put more power into the channel doing this or what?....would like clarification on this....

No. It does not increase power capability. It just increases the volume so that you don't have to crank the amp to up so high.

If the gain is set too low, it may not be possible to drive the amplifier to adequate power or full power.

Try turning the gain control on an amp to ZERO (like a pro amp or any amp with gain control). Now turn up the volume of your preamp or AVR that is hooked to the amp. See what happens.

Try turning the channel levels on your AVR to -12.0. I don't care if you have a 1,000wpc amp. It won't sound very loud and will shut down before reaching 100dB.

And just how many Watts do you think is actually outputting on average anyway?
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post #19 of 25 Old 05-31-2012, 02:05 PM
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fwiw,check out TEKTON DESIGNS lore speakers great reviews,i'm seriously thinking of getting some pendragons next spring

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post #20 of 25 Old 05-31-2012, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

No. It does not increase power capability. It just increases the volume so that you don't have to crank the amp to up so high.

If the gain is set too low, it may not be possible to drive the amplifier to adequate power or full power.

Try turning the gain control on an amp to ZERO (like a pro amp or any amp with gain control). Now turn up the volume of your preamp or AVR that is hooked to the amp. See what happens.

Try turning the channel levels on your AVR to -12.0. I don't care if you have a 1,000wpc amp. It won't sound very loud and will shut down before reaching 100dB.

And just how many Watts do you think is actually outputting on average anyway?

thx...i own 8060-st towers with 8060 center and before when I turned it up to -20 to -16 on my receiver...vsx-31 elite 80 wpc...my center sounded screachy with voices at times...don't know why but with your sugestion I increased my channel levels from 0 to + 3 and now my center sounds better...does this make sense?...lol

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post #21 of 25 Old 05-31-2012, 03:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by josh6113 View Post

thx...i own 8060-st towers with 8060 center and before when I turned it up to -20 to -16 on my receiver...vsx-31 elite 80 wpc...my center sounded screachy with voices at times...don't know why but with your sugestion I increased my channel levels from 0 to + 3 and now my center sounds better...does this make sense?...lol

It's possible.

I think some amps may have sufficient power, but the gain is low enough that it limits the amps' power output and headroom.

Some people say they have to turn the volume up to -5.0 or even -0.0. I don't know. It sounds to me that just maybe the gain is set too low.

A friend of mine recently bought the DefTech BP7001SC because they sounded so good to him and his wife at the dealer.

But when he got them home and ran Audyssey, he complained that the BP7001SC sounded "compressed" and not lifelike as they did at the dealer.

So I told him to turn off Audyssey and increase his channel levels. He immediately noticed a huge improvement in dynamics; he said his speakers just "came alive" like they did at the dealer.
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post #22 of 25 Old 05-31-2012, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

It's possible.

I think some amps may have sufficient power, but the gain is low enough that it limits the amps' power output and headroom.

Some people say they have to turn the volume up to -5.0 or even -0.0. I don't know. It sounds to me that just maybe the gain is set too low.

A friend of mine recently bought the DefTech BP7001SC because they sounded so good to him and his wife at the dealer.

But when he got them home and ran Audyssey, he complained that the BP7001SC sounded "compressed" and not lifelike as they did at the dealer.

So I told him to turn off Audyssey and increase his channel levels. He immediately noticed a huge improvement in dynamics; he said his speakers just "came alive" like they did at the dealer.

this is interesting....thanks for your know how on this subject.I can understand his feelings as I felt the same about my setup....but increasing the levels of the channels seems to have made a good improvement....will do more testing and submit my findings on the deftech forum......thanks again for your imput...

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post #23 of 25 Old 05-31-2012, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ballroomBoom View Post

Thanks for the suggestions so far.

I own a Sony STR-DE197. I want to use it in my new speaker system that I'm building from scratch, although it's old and very basic. The specs say nothing of 4 ohms, so I'm trying to be careful.

I'll be using it for music most of the time. The types of music I like include New Age, which tends to have a lot of mids and highs, focused bass, and some gentle vocals.

As for adding an amp, I suppose I could, although prefer not to because I want to max out my $2000 budget on the towers alone.

Question is, if speakers like the Philharmonic 1 says "at or above 4 ohms", will I risk blowing my receiver? I know some of you say I won't have a problem, but I need to be dead sure or otherwise I'm out of luck without a receiver and out of money.

Apparently, the Sony STR-DE197 only weighs in at 15 pounds, which means it cannot have much power supply, and I would not risk blowing out a set of Philharmonics by trying to achieve any kind of realistic sound levels.

FWIW, based on my experience with my Onkyo 809 receiver for both music and movies, I would look at this Onkyo 609:

http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-Chann...8504660&sr=1-1

The 609 weighs in at 25 pounds and should play the types of music you mentioned to decent levels fairly easily. Plus, if you connect it to the internet, you will be able to pull in all kinds of streamed music. For under $400, it is hard to beat.

FAMILY ROOM SYSTEM--Legacy Signature II tower speakers, PSB Image 5T tower speakers, Denon AVR-X5200W, Krell FPB 400cx, Oppo BDP-83 universal disc player, RCA HD-DVD player, Samsung HL67A 750A TV
MASTER BEDROOM--Dynaudio Audience 82 tower speakers, Outlaw LFM-1 sub, Yamaha RX-V1800 receiver, Sherbourn 5/1500A 5-channel amp, Oppo DV 980H DVD player, Panasonic DMP DT210 Blu-ray player, Panasonic 60-ST60 plasma TV.
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post #24 of 25 Old 05-31-2012, 05:37 PM
 
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Yeah, I would not limit my speaker choices due to crappy AVR. I say get something like Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Pioneer.

For example, the Denon 2112 is $488 delivered. It will do 117 Watts into 8ohm & 144 Watts into 4ohm.

Then get the Philharmonic 1 for $1,600.
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post #25 of 25 Old 05-31-2012, 06:48 PM
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Denn 3312ci is on sale at EE right now... That's something to consider.
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