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Old 06-03-2012, 12:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Hello

Im looking to add an Amp to my system.

Onkyo 808 135W/CH

Polk Audio M70 20-275W
Polk Audio CS2 20-175W
Polk Audio M40 20-125W

with an SVS Sonotube sub rounding out the low end

For right now im just looking to provide more power to the LR speakes. I am not made of money so Im not looking to spend more then $250ish on an amp.

Thanks.
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Old 06-03-2012, 01:16 AM
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I can't, in good conscience, recommend you purchase an amp for those speakers. It's a total waste of money and your amp should already provide plenty of power for them without clipping. There is no valid reason to need an amp.

According to the spec sheet, those speakers are 90db/8ohm. That is the furthest from a speaker needing an amp as it gets. If you want stronger dynamics, or a more balanced tonality, you will want to sell those and purchase more satisfactory speakers.
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Old 06-03-2012, 02:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you Eternal Velocity for all your great input.

You called what I have worked hard to obtain for myself "dreadful" but failed to give me any information on what you would call a more "satisfactory" speaker. Are you normally this much of an ass or did you have be taught?

Now maybe you missed the part where I said I am not made of money. I'm 23 years old working a full time job, going to college at night. Yea Polk audio might not be the most amazing brand but it sure sounds better then the TV speakers I was using and all my budget can afford right now. With how you responded to my question you're clearly made of money. So how about this. Pick out a set of speakers with "stronger dynamics", and that are "more balanced tonality" and send them my way. I would clearly benefit from such an upgrade. Just think, you would be saving me from the 90db/8ohm hell you seem to think I'm in.

My speakers may not be the best on the market but that does not give you any right to come on here and bash my system because it does not live up to your lofty expectations. I asked a question I had on my set up and you responded with calling what I have garbage. Thanks a lot. Way to be a 8====>
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Old 06-03-2012, 02:17 AM
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If you don't mind a bit of fan noise there are some powerful pro audio amps at that price range. Something like the older Crown xls series should let those speakers rock.
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Old 06-03-2012, 02:28 AM
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An amp would take the load off the Onkyo but I would only do so if you were planning on adding a couple more speakers for a 7.1 setup. Adding a couple more speakers would give you the excuse to beef up the surround presence. You could look at a 3-channel amp and drive the front three with it. That coupled with adding two more speakers would leave the Onkyo driving the least-demanding 4 speakers.

The Emotiva XPA-3 is $700 and is 200w x 3. D-Sonic is definitely out of your price range at $1400. Outlaw has 200w monoblock amps for $350 a piece. Not sure if you would be able to find anything decent in the 200 WPC range for $250.

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Old 06-03-2012, 02:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eternal Velocity View Post

I can't, in good conscience, recommend you purchase an amp for those dreadful speakers. It's a total waste of money and your amp should already provide plenty of power for them without clipping. There is no valid reason to need an amp.

According to the spec sheet, those speakers are 90db/8ohm. That is the furthest from a speaker needing an amp as it gets. If you want stronger dynamics, or a more balanced tonality, you will want to sell those and purchase more satisfactory speakers.

Nice of you to insult the dudes gear.
I guess playing the class warfare card makes you feel better about yourself. I also find it interesting that you use the spec sheet to come up with 90db/8ohm speakers don't need an amp. I am not going to agree or disagree here, but the spec sheet for another very popular polk speaker claims a 89db/8ohm rating and almost every person who owns or recommends the particular speakers say you need at least 200 watts to drive them properly.

To the OP, do you really need an amp or are you searching for bragging rights? With a competent avr such as yours you should be able to hit very loud reference level spl's in most room without clipping. Adding an external amp is not going to change the way your speakers sound, it will just change how loud they can get before distorting due to amp clipping. With your modest budget, I would look at some pro amps for crown or similar or take a look at some audiosource offerings if you feel you truly need an external amp. But don't expect a "night and day" difference with them or any external amp for that matter, just cleaner sound at high and higher volume levels.

I don't need snobs to tell me how to think, thank you!
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Old 06-03-2012, 02:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Square88 View Post

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Are you normally this much of an ass or did you have be taught?

Now maybe you missed the part where I said I am not made of money. I’m 23 years old working a full time job, going to college at night.

You go get em square88 - plenty of amps out there to fit your budget. have you done any searchin on A'gon? - Also, the comments above about perhaps not needing an amp may be true. Any more info on what you trying to accomplish would be helpful.
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Old 06-03-2012, 03:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Square88 View Post

....but failed to give me any information on what you would call a more "satisfactory" speaker.

That would depend on you. Why do you think you need to add an amp into your system?

Quote:


Are you normally this much of an ass or did you have be taught?

My intention was never to offend you. Sorry if I did.

Quote:


Now maybe you missed the part where I said I am not made of money.

I caught it well and fine, which is why I think it's 100% RIDICULOUS to be looking to add more electronics to your system. I guess I just don't comprehend the concept of people who don't have money, wanting to blow money.

Quote:


Yea Polk audio might not be the most amazing brand but it sure sounds better then the TV speakers I was using and all my budget can afford right now.

If it's satisfactory, then live with it. Why would you blow $250 on essentially redundant electronics???

Quote:


With how you responded to my question you’re clearly made of money.

No, I just think that you're better off investing that $250 into actual improvements in sound quality, or not spending it. In fact at no point did i suggest you even needed to "spend more" to get better sound.

Quote:


So how about this…. Pick out a set of speakers with "stronger dynamics", and that are "more balanced tonality" and send them my way.

Let me reword that part. "What are you expecting to improve with an amplifier"? Now you answer that.

The answer is either dynamics, where the speakers, not the 135 watt amp, are the limiting factor, or it is not dynamics, where any different amp should not make a meaningful difference, unless the onkyo is a poorly designed electronic (i don't know much about onkyo gear, never really messed with it). The only other explanation would be that you just want something to put on the tv stand to make yourself feel just like other people, but then why would you ask here? You could just pick whatever has the nicest aesthetics.

It seems to me that you're a fruitless journey with this thread, so I was trying to help you be smart with your hard earned money. Instead you twisted one, offhand (admittedly unecessary) comment into hurt feelings.

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I would clearly benefit from such an upgrade. Just think, you would be saving me from the 90db/8ohm hell you seem to think I’m in.

Huh? I clearly stated that 90db/8ohm is a positive - that such speakers do NOT require external amplification. In fact there are very few speakers out there that "need" external amplification, whether they're $200 or $6000, and they're normally speakers people would be better off not bothering with anyways, as power compression is no better than clipping amplifiers.

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I asked a question I had on my set up and you responded with calling what I have garbage.

Sorry if I used a strong word, but actually, all I said was that whatever you're hearing is what you should expect from those speakers. If to you it's satisfactory, don't spend another dime. If it's unsatisfactory, don't spend a dime on an amplifier, spend it on more satisfactory speakers.

Quote:


I guess playing the class warfare card makes you feel better about yourself.

Um... what? Are you implying that there is simply no possibility for there to be better options for loudspeakers, if the OP took his $250 amp budget, and sold his stereo mains and center? There is no "class warfare card" being pulled. If the OP is satisfied with what he has, then he has no need for an amplifier or to spend another dime.

Quote:


I also find it interesting that you use the spec sheet to come up with 90db/8ohm speakers don't need an amp.

If we're going to get technical, 90db/2.83v/m 3 ohm speakers don't need an amp either. I've got some 87db 4 ohm speakers in a huge room, that sound the same at listenable levels with a 100 watt amp and a 500 watt amp.

Quote:


I am not going to agree or disagree here, but the spec sheet for another very popular polk speaker claims a 89db/8ohm rating and almost every person who owns or recommends the particular speakers say you need at least 200 watts to drive them properly.

Why, because you can an extra... 2db of headroom over a 135 watt amplifier? 2db of headroom is the difference between driving properly or not? Is OP's amp shutting down trying to drive these speakers:
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Old 06-03-2012, 03:31 AM
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Old 06-03-2012, 05:07 AM
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My intention was never to offend you. Sorry if I did.

Hey Velocity - FWIW, a small part of it is what you said but the bigger part was the general tone used while saying it. I get hit with this at work sometimes so I'll just say it to you like this - Though you probably didn't mean it, your remark had a tone of "talking down to" and basically "beating people over the head". In another context, a lot of what you said makes perfect sense.
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Old 06-03-2012, 07:42 AM
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Don't waist your money on an amp, upgrade your speakers first. If your budget is under a grand, then I recommend you look into used Def Tech's or Klipsch speakers. You won't notice any improvement in sound quality with those crapoy Polks.
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Old 06-03-2012, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

If you want a amp, get a amp

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...umber=248-6658

You will need rca - 1/4 cables to run it.

http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-CPR201-Du...8715865&sr=1-2

That Behringer only does 175 watts RMS at 8 Ohms.

An audiophile likes to talk about how much they spent and how good it sounds.

A DIY'er likes to talk about how little they spent and how good it sounds.

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Old 06-03-2012, 07:57 AM
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Post what city you live in. You may find a member that can bring and amp and a mult-meter and gain match at the speaker terminals and then let you make up your own mind.

What are your room dimensions? Seating distance from speakers?

An audiophile likes to talk about how much they spent and how good it sounds.

A DIY'er likes to talk about how little they spent and how good it sounds.

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Old 06-03-2012, 08:05 AM
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You would have to spend at least twice as much money to upgrade your main speakers significantly; those speakers are by far the best available for a comparable low price, IMO. Don't pay any attention to someone criticizing the speakers.

You also have tons of power to drive them, because they are very easy speakers to drive.

If I were you, I would upgrade to the CS20 center speaker, however; your center speaker is the weak link in your system.

Yes, there are amplifiers you could use to add more total power to your system, but not for $250. Spend the money on the CS20; that is the best place to use the money.

The Emotiva XPA-3 would be the cheapest solution, for around $700. The amps that are cheaper are Class D amplifiers intended for public address systems, and sound like crap; you don't want to go there!

I really don't think power is your problem, unless you are trying to blow the doors off; you have quite a bit now.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Square88 View Post

Hello

Im looking to add an Amp to my system.

Onkyo 808 135W/CH

Polk Audio M70 20-275W
Polk Audio CS2 20-175W
Polk Audio M40 20-125W

with an SVS Sonotube sub rounding out the low end

For right now im just looking to provide more power to the LR speakes. I am not made of money so Im not looking to spend more then $250ish on an amp.

Thanks.

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Old 06-03-2012, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Square88 View Post

Hello

Im looking to add an Amp to my system.

Onkyo 808 135W/CH

Polk Audio M70 20-275W
Polk Audio CS2 20-175W
Polk Audio M40 20-125W

with an SVS Sonotube sub rounding out the low end

For right now im just looking to provide more power to the LR speakes. I am not made of money so Im not looking to spend more then $250ish on an amp.

Thanks.


I can only provide the information that I have and had set up at one time.Just so you get an Idea of what I have... I also have an Onkyo 808 ( love it by the way) as I run to Klipsch KG 5.5's ( they have duel 10" drivers ) A Bic Pl-28 center channel ( has dual 8" drivers), klipsch SLX's for the surrounds (dual 4" drivers ), Bic Pl 76 towers as rear surrounds ( 6.5 dual drivers), Klipsch Q's as front highs and dual sub's.

Ok, now that i got threw that lol... I had an Emotiva UPA 2ch amp that was rated at 125wpc for a short time, it was used to run the L&R. For $300 it was a very good amp but to be honest i noticed no differnace. I'm not trying to compare apples to oranges more rather red apples to green apples . I realise its set up is different but that just want I experianced.

The only true way to find out is to try it yourself as I did. I would suggest looking into the local craigs list, Ebay and such as you should to be able to find a used amp for around the price you posted.

Another note: the Onkyo 808 does not have a main 12v trigger for an amp as you will have to use the zone 2 trigger. Its not a big deal really but it is a pain to have to set it up every time ;0. i had to use the harmony remote with a little tweaking to set it up then the wife was happy.

Anyhow... good luck.
Jeff
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Old 06-03-2012, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Jinjuku View Post

That Behringer only does 175 watts RMS at 8 Ohms.

His receiver does 135 with 2 channels driven, and less with all channels. What's your point?
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Old 06-03-2012, 12:23 PM
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Find a used Parasound HCA 1000. I bought mine on EBay for around $275. Very nice for the dough. They pop up on Audiogon occasionally but they go quickly.

Kaboom.
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Old 06-03-2012, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by wingnut4772 View Post

Find a used Parasound HCA 1000. I bought mine on EBay for around $275. Very nice for the dough. They pop up on Audiogon occasionally but they go quickly.

Funny, about three weeks ago level matched a Crown XLS 1000 Drive Core ($245 at Guitar Center with coupon code) and my remaining Parasound HCA 1000A.

Get the Crown. It will be brand new with warranty. It's dead silent. I sold my Parasound on Craigslist for $250.

The Crown has more head room and crossover is new with 3 year warranty, the Parasound has a 12v relay.

An audiophile likes to talk about how much they spent and how good it sounds.

A DIY'er likes to talk about how little they spent and how good it sounds.

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Old 06-03-2012, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Jinjuku View Post


Funny, about three weeks ago level matched a Crown XLS 1000 Drive Core ($245 at Guitar Center with coupon code) and my remaining Parasound HCA 1000A.

Get the Crown. It will be brand new with warranty. It's dead silent. I sold my Parasound on Craigslist for $250.

The Crown has more head room and crossover is new with 3 year warranty, the Parasound has a 12v relay.

But the Parasound sounds purdy.

Kaboom.
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Old 06-03-2012, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by wingnut4772 View Post

But the Parasound sounds purdy.

So does the Crown Plus the HCA 1000 sounded like drek when it ran out of stream but the Crown held together.

An audiophile likes to talk about how much they spent and how good it sounds.

A DIY'er likes to talk about how little they spent and how good it sounds.

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Old 06-03-2012, 04:04 PM
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So does the Crown Plus the HCA 1000 sounded like drek when it ran out of stream but the Crown held together.

Hmmm never heard the crown. I'll have to check it out.

Kaboom.
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Old 06-03-2012, 08:29 PM - Thread Starter
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some great ideas guys, thanks.
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Old 06-04-2012, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

You would have to spend at least twice as much money to upgrade your main speakers significantly; those speakers are by far the best available for a comparable low price, IMO. Don't pay any attention to someone criticizing the speakers.

You also have tons of power to drive them, because they are very easy speakers to drive.

If I were you, I would upgrade to the CS20 center speaker, however; your center speaker is the weak link in your system.

Yes, there are amplifiers you could use to add more total power to your system, but not for $250. Spend the money on the CS20; that is the best place to use the money.

The Emotiva XPA-3 would be the cheapest solution, for around $700. The amps that are cheaper are Class D amplifiers intended for public address systems, and sound like crap; you don't want to go there!

I really don't think power is your problem, unless you are trying to blow the doors off; you have quite a bit now.


I respectfully disagree

My father-in-law has those same Polks, so I am familiar with the sound quality of said speakers. I have no idea how much they cost new, but, assuming they were under a grand, the OP could pick up a treo of Elemental Design Cinima12's or Chase SHO-10's or even a used treo of Klipsch Herseys for far less. I highly doubt that anyone would disagree with my opinion that any of those would blow the Polks out of the water (if they heard the Polks compared to any of the ones I listed).

I also respectfully disagree with your statement about amps. You can find a good used Crown amp for under $200.

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Old 06-04-2012, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Eternal Velocity View Post

I can't, in good conscience, recommend you purchase an amp for those speakers. It's a total waste of money and your amp should already provide plenty of power for them without clipping. There is no valid reason to need an amp.

According to the spec sheet, those speakers are 90db/8ohm. That is the furthest from a speaker needing an amp as it gets. If you want stronger dynamics, or a more balanced tonality, you will want to sell those and purchase more satisfactory speakers.

There is not a damn thing wrong with this post. It's accurate, specific, and direct. How sensitive have we become when, unless we tip toe around, people get their noses out of joint over the truth.

Hell, OP, If you want your hand held, or your nose wiped go back to grade school.

J Dunlavy:.. if you stop to think about it, no loudspeaker can sound more accurate than it measures ...
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Old 06-04-2012, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by htcritic View Post


There is not a damn thing wrong with this post. It's accurate, specific, and direct. How sensitive have we become when, unless we tip toe around, people get their noses out of joint over the truth.

Hell, OP, If you want your hand held, or your nose wiped go back to grade school.

No, you're wrong about this. The original post from Eternal Velocity, edited later but quoted by one or two other comments, added a needlessly stinging evaluation of the OP's speakers. Why are people around here in such a hurry to be rude to each other?

I shouldn't talk, though--I've re-worded and deleted many a post that came off mean-spirited. Sometimes I wasn't quick enough to prevent anybody from seeing me at my impolite worst.

Once again, I am sorry to take a sledgehammer to so small and fragile a nut. -- Richard Dawkins, The Greatest Show On Earth
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Old 06-04-2012, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by SaviorMachine View Post


No, you're wrong about this. The original post from Eternal Velocity, edited later but quoted by one or two other comments, added a needlessly stinging evaluation of the OP's speakers.

A stinging evaluation of speakers? Is insulting to who? The speakers don't mind. Unless the OP designed the speaker or owns the company why would he be offended by a criticism of a speaker? It's an inanimate object.

I happen to think those speakers are weak as well. The OP might be a great kid, loves his mother, country, and God. But what are we coming to when we're supposed to be sensitive to a speaker?

Too me, the offensive thing was the OP calling the responder an ass. If you come here looking for advice and opinions then be prepared to accept them without cursing at people. The OP personally attacked the guy and nobody said a word. The responder attacked a speaker and gets a load of shite.

Typical

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Old 06-04-2012, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by htcritic View Post


A stinging evaluation of speakers? Is insulting to who? The speakers don't mind. Unless the OP designed the speaker or owns the company why would he be offended by a criticism of a speaker? It's an inanimate object.

I happen to think those speakers are weak as well. The OP might be a great kid, loves his mother, country, and God. But what are we coming to when we're supposed to be sensitive to a speaker?

Too me, the offensive thing was the OP calling the responder an ass. If you come here looking for advice and opinions then be prepared to accept them without cursing at people. The OP personal attacked the guy and nobody said a word. The responder attacked a speaker and gets a load of shite.

I kinda agree. Maybe it's not sugar coated or touchy feely but it's honest. And we are all here to learn.

Kaboom.
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Old 06-04-2012, 09:12 AM
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^^^

+1

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Old 06-04-2012, 09:16 AM
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Heh. I love neither my mother, nor my country, nor anybody's god; so I guess I'll just politely disagree with you in a very general way, and wish you a good day

Once again, I am sorry to take a sledgehammer to so small and fragile a nut. -- Richard Dawkins, The Greatest Show On Earth
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Old 06-04-2012, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htcritic View Post

A stinging evaluation of speakers? Is insulting to who?

To the person who bought them. Lots of people buy Polks so why insult their taste to give your opinion about amplification for them?

If you were standing next to the OP when giving your advice, would you word it any differently? If so, then what's wrong with the same degree of polite in the written word?

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