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post #91 of 133 Old 06-23-2012, 09:52 AM
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On the topic of breakin, I wrote the following some time ago.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/603725/thiels-take-on-breakin#post_6538720

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post #92 of 133 Old 06-23-2012, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Then you've been looking in the wrong places. The effects of driver break in have been well known in the loudspeaker design community going on 80 years now. Of course, if you're not a member of that community then one would not expect you to be aware of this. I'd look up some references in my AES files, but if you're not an AES member I doubt you'd want to pay the fees to download them.
Edit: This source is free.
http://www.eminence.com/2011/06/speaker-break-in/

Not to take away from Big Tony's detailed examination of the phenomena rolleyes.gif but I think that this is a better explanation ...

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post #93 of 133 Old 06-23-2012, 10:22 AM
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Let me give a simple example that one might be able to relate. Does the elastic on your Underwear loosen up just a tad bit after the first few times you wear abd wash it? The difference is subtle, but it is there. If you can discern that, then this break in should not be that hard for you to understand.
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post #94 of 133 Old 06-23-2012, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by chikoo View Post

Let me give a simple example that one might be able to relate. Does the elastic on your Underwear loosen up just a tad bit after the first few times you wear abd wash it? The difference is subtle, but it is there.
It's closer to a new pair of cotton jeans, the type that aren't pre-washed. They're stiff, as are driver suspensions and surrounds. With flexing they get softer. Most of the process takes place early on, but it continues almost indefinitely. Most new woofers come though with Fs 5 to 10% above spec, while decades old drivers can measure 5 to 10% below spec. Some guitar players change drivers on a fairly regular basis because they don't care for the loss of high end response that comes with age, while others who prefer a more mellow tone search out old drivers, the older the better.

As for the phenomenon of a driver needing an additional break in after non-use, true, also seen in jeans. After being loosened by wearing them a few days you wash them and they're stiff again, though not as stiff as when new. Speaker suspensions do the same thing after resting, but the time to get them flexing right again is only a few seconds. When I measure a cab after not being used I always warm it up a bit, knowing from experience that if I don't it will be out of spec.
BTW, drivers with foam or rubber surrounds need far less break in than those with cloth surrounds, because foam and rubber don't soften nearly as much as cloth does.
IMO all drivers should be broken in by the manufacturer at the factory, but very few are, as break in takes time, and time is money.

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post #95 of 133 Old 06-24-2012, 06:05 PM
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Hey, Carnut, can you give me your impressions of the finish of the speakers. I see from the pictures that they're on display in your room, but I've heard that they don't look that good close up. Thanks again for the help.

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post #96 of 133 Old 06-26-2012, 07:15 PM - Thread Starter
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I have no issue what so ever with the finish, it is a Dull Black. It is not like a laminated one, but I knew that going in. I think they worked out all the finish problems with the New Cabinets they started making this year.
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post #97 of 133 Old 06-26-2012, 07:28 PM
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with grilles on they are black non-distinct boxes that do not call attention to themselves. perfect for dedicated home theater.
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post #98 of 133 Old 06-27-2012, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

So, I just put my money where my mouth is in this instance. Called CHT yesterday. Craigsub was busy, but he called me back a few hours later. Really nice guy to talk to, very knowledgeable, and if anyone has any doubts about their customers service, I would encourage them to call him up. I ended up ordering dual 2011 model downfiring SS 18.1s to replace my single Outlaw EX. I'll be glad to update about my customer service experience, but I don't anticipate any problems based on all the positive feedback I have seen from many other buyers.

I did almost the same yesterday! Except I opted for dual VS18.1's to replace my single Outlaw EX. So far Craig and everyone at CHT has been very helpful.
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post #99 of 133 Old 06-27-2012, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by thebriman View Post

I did almost the same yesterday! Except I opted for dual VS18.1's to replace my single Outlaw EX. So far Craig and everyone at CHT has been very helpful.

Cool biggrin.gif

We'll have to compare notes on how the vented vs. the sealed CHT subs sound in comparison to the EX smile.gif

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post #100 of 133 Old 06-27-2012, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by thebriman View Post

I did almost the same yesterday! Except I opted for dual VS18.1's to replace my single Outlaw EX. So far Craig and everyone at CHT has been very helpful.

I have the dual VS-18.1s with Dayton Amp. I'm very pleased with them.biggrin.gif I also had multiple conversations with them (Craig and Molly) over the phone and via PMs throughout the process. They were always very helpful.

resolution good....
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post #101 of 133 Old 06-27-2012, 03:15 PM - Thread Starter
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For those on the fence do not hesitate to work with Chase, one sketchy at best post, it is very clear there is more to that story.
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post #102 of 133 Old 06-27-2012, 05:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Lets see they sound better than Monitor Audio RX-8's that cost more than twice as much and that is not a knock on the RX-8's, they were on my short list. Sounds like a design flaw to me. Why don't you just let it go and stop posting about them, last I checked you never owned any of the products you keep giving your 2 cents about.
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post #103 of 133 Old 06-27-2012, 10:55 PM
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I love my quad EX's. But one thing I KNOW the CHT will do better on is...it won't chuff. 3 inch ports.... Now what?

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #104 of 133 Old 06-28-2012, 01:53 PM
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There must be something missing from this thread since I have no idea what the last 3 posts are talking about...
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post #105 of 133 Old 06-29-2012, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Carnut12 View Post

Back to my subject I plan on watching several movies this weekend, wife and kids are away so I get a weekend to myself!!!!!!!!!!!!

Have you seen this thread in the AVS subwoofer forum: The New Master List of BASS in Movies with Frequency Charts. The four to five star movies in that list have some scenes with incredible bass and would really show you what your subs can do biggrin.gif

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post #106 of 133 Old 06-29-2012, 04:04 PM
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I don't know where I-Robot ranks on the list but we just picked it up on BD and watched it again .... pretty good flick and the couches vibrated off and on throughout the movie.

Regards,
Charlie

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post #107 of 133 Old 06-29-2012, 04:29 PM
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Carnut12 and others, had to join your appreciation thread and praise both Pro10's and a Sho10 for my front stage. Have loved the clarity, full response, lack of overly bright sound, but mostly the dynamics! Makes listening to conversation during highly destructive scenes a breeze.

To find a speaker set that can keep up with the power of my CS-18.2 has made my HT experience very enjoyable for me. It may not have quite the impact at 20 Hz as you guys with ported, but It definitely has the super tightness and the range that sets this specially designed Eminence driver far and above any competition at anywhere near the price range! The bugger just doesn't seem to have a limit.

Naysayers will come and go, but Chase is here to stay!
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post #108 of 133 Old 06-29-2012, 04:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Have you seen this thread in the AVS subwoofer forum: The New Master List of BASS in Movies with Frequency Charts. The four to five star movies in that list have some scenes with incredible bass and would really show you what your subs can do biggrin.gif

I had not seen that, thank you!!!!!!!!!!
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post #109 of 133 Old 06-29-2012, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Have you seen this thread in the AVS subwoofer forum: The New Master List of BASS in Movies with Frequency Charts. The four to five star movies in that list have some scenes with incredible bass and would really show you what your subs can do biggrin.gif
I think what it shows is what the movie is capable of. To find out what your sub is capable of you'd need to use a capable microphone.

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post #110 of 133 Old 06-30-2012, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

I think what it shows is what the movie is capable of. To find out what your sub is capable of you'd need to use a capable microphone.

Yeah, for me, those test tones just don't sound as good on my sub as WoW and Star Trek (2009). wink.gif

At some point, one does have to move beyond frequency response and graphs and evaluate speakers/subs based on how they sound. The data is the means to an end, not the end in itself smile.gif

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post #111 of 133 Old 06-30-2012, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Yeah, for me, those test tones just don't sound as good on my sub as WoW and Star Trek (2009). wink.gif
At some point, one does have to move beyond frequency response and graphs and evaluate speakers/subs based on how they sound. The data is the means to an end, not the end in itself smile.gif
You've misunderstood what I said. To find out if your sub is capable of playing what's in the movie, you need to be able to record what's being played back and compare the two.no test tones involved. Then and only then will you unambiguously know what the sub or subs can really do. Look for posts by the screen name Bossobass for just what I'm talking about.

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post #112 of 133 Old 06-30-2012, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

You've misunderstood what I said.

You missed the wink above wink.gif

Graphs and charts are useful for making purchasing and placement decisions. But in the end, once someone has their subs and has optimized the setup, all that matters to many people is how they sound as part of the aesthetic experience. Choosing movies from that list is one of the best ways to engage in that bass aesthetic experience. How much the movie recording matches the sub output recording does not need to factor into that experience, except for those for whom it is all about that eternal quest for perfect reproduction of the original recording.

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post #113 of 133 Old 06-30-2012, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

You've misunderstood what I said. To find out if your sub is capable of playing what's in the movie, you need to be able to record what's being played back and compare the two.no test tones involved. Then and only then will you unambiguously know what the sub or subs can really do. Look for posts by the screen name Bossobass for just what I'm talking about.

The only problem with that is you need a mic that is flat to 3hz for it to be accurate in spec labs. You can not add a file for say a behringer mic or galaxy mic. Bosso has an awesome mic which needs to corrections. I know someone was working on spec lab to add files but I am not sure how it is going. Once we can do that you know I will plaster graphs all over the place.

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post #114 of 133 Old 06-30-2012, 01:38 PM
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Can anyone recommend a speaker stand that can be filled with sand/shot for the SHO-10's?
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post #115 of 133 Old 07-01-2012, 01:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Can anyone recommend a speaker stand that can be filled with sand/shot for the SHO-10's?

I used the Sanus Steel series, it is the same flat black as the speakers, I did not fill them, but it says you can. Is there really that big of a difference if you fill them in sound or is it more for stability?

Anyway I love mine, some descriptions say they are Gloss, but they are not. Funny part is I was expecting gloss, so glad I got Flat.

Forgot to mention I used the SFC-18 for the Center (Works GREAT), SF-22 for fronts, and SF-26 for the rears.
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post #116 of 133 Old 07-01-2012, 01:44 PM
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I rarely have time to post these days, but I thought I would throw another chip in the hat for CHT. I've since replaced my polks and bic's with PRO-10's and a SHO-10 center, along with two VS18.1's. Like another member said, I also remember thinking to myself, for what I paid, I can't imagine anything sounding any better without insane amounts of money!

I'll have to check out the sanus stands, I too am in the middle of what feels like "speaker stand hell". I'm not really happy with anything I have currently.
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post #117 of 133 Old 07-03-2012, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnut12 View Post

I used the Sanus Steel series, it is the same flat black as the speakers, I did not fill them, but it says you can. Is there really that big of a difference if you fill them in sound or is it more for stability?
Anyway I love mine, some descriptions say they are Gloss, but they are not. Funny part is I was expecting gloss, so glad I got Flat.
Forgot to mention I used the SFC-18 for the Center (Works GREAT), SF-22 for fronts, and SF-26 for the rears.

Thanks, I'll check them out. Want to be able to fill the stands for stability (have kids).

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Originally Posted by XARiUS View Post

I rarely have time to post these days, but I thought I would throw another chip in the hat for CHT. I've since replaced my polks and bic's with PRO-10's and a SHO-10 center, along with two VS18.1's. Like another member said, I also remember thinking to myself, for what I paid, I can't imagine anything sounding any better without insane amounts of money!
I'll have to check out the sanus stands, I too am in the middle of what feels like "speaker stand hell". I'm not really happy with anything I have currently.

So why did you decide to go with the PRO-10's witha SHO-10 center vs. all SHO-10's?
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post #118 of 133 Old 07-07-2012, 11:55 AM
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Ok, I pulled the trigger and ordered 3 SHO-10's for the front stage. Can't wait to get them! I was hesitant about placing the SHO-10 center on its side, as my wife probably would not like the height of the speaker, but screw it. I'll just take the flak when I get them... So how long did it take you folks to get your speakers?
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post #119 of 133 Old 07-07-2012, 12:37 PM
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Order placed June 27th. Still waiting. Allegedly R&L carriers took the week off so hopefully they will ship out this monday.
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post #120 of 133 Old 07-07-2012, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beezar View Post

Ok, I pulled the trigger and ordered 3 SHO-10's for the front stage. Can't wait to get them! I was hesitant about placing the SHO-10 center on its side, as my wife probably would not like the height of the speaker, but screw it. I'll just take the flak when I get them... So how long did it take you folks to get your speakers?

Congrats!
Mine were shipped next day. However I remember seeing a post on CHT forum recently about running low on SHO-10 stock, you might want to check with Craig.
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