* Offical HSU Sub Support Thread * - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 460 Old 07-25-2002, 05:51 AM
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Steve, that is what I was concerned about, that I was not getting the 90Hz to 60Hz range. If I set sub to OUT, do I still leave crossover on sub at 60 or change to 90? Thanks for your help.

Ron
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post #182 of 460 Old 07-25-2002, 06:44 AM
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Setting thee sub setting to "out" bypasses the sub crossover which is what you want if you are running line level inputs. It's the same result as turning the crossover all the way up as I explained in my last post. The receiver is handling the crossover. And as Steve said, if you have the gain knob set at the 12 oclock position, it is almost certainly running way hot. When calibrated, the gain knob will probably be somewhere near the 9 o'clock position or even below. Try getting used to having non boomy bass that integrates well rather than bass that overpowers the music. Give it a chance and I think you will be happier. For HT, in 5.1 or better, running hot is a matter of taste. I like it that way myself. I crank mine to about the 12 o'clock position for movies especially action, but I don't know exactly how many decibels hot that is.

Russ Tarvin
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post #183 of 460 Old 07-25-2002, 07:20 AM
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I ordered a VTF-3,which should be here possibly today.

I have a Denon 3802, 6-Rocket RS 750's and RSC 200.

To give me a head start or a good starting point what would be the recommended settings for the Denon and VTF-3 it sounds like I'll possibly have to do a lot of tweaking and for those of you who have narrowed it down a good reference point would help.

My listening is probably 90 percent Home Theater.

I presently have a Velodyne 12 in. would anyone recommend using it alongside the VTF 3 or would I be better off without it?

I have the radio shack SPL, AVIA, video essentials, I read somewhere, maybe on this long thread that the setting on the SPL should read higher (I think that's what I read) than the settings for the rest of the speakers is this so?

Please lay in on me so I can enjoy what you all are experiencing.

Harley
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post #184 of 460 Old 07-25-2002, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by HuskerHarley

To give me a head start or a good starting point what would be the recommended settings for the Denon and VTF-3 it sounds like I'll possibly have to do a lot of tweaking and for those of you who have narrowed it down a good reference point would help.
Is this what you are looking for?
1) Set all speakers to small
2) Set the sub to on
3) Set the crossover to 80Hz
4) Calibrate the 3802 level to 0 (your front speakers might be + 8db's or so).
5) turn volume know in back of vtf3 to about 20-25% (around the 9 o'clock a bit more if you want it "hot").
6) turn vtf3 crossover knob to max (something like 90Hz. I figure that the receiver is doing to crossover so I want the vtf3 to be out of the way. Someone please correct if I'm wrong.

That's what I have for -my- system.


Quote:
Originally posted by HuskerHarley

I presently have a Velodyne 12 in. would anyone recommend using it alongside the VTF 3 or would I be better off without it?
I'd say no to begin with at the least. See how you like the vtf-3 then start experimenting after you get things "down".
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post #185 of 460 Old 07-25-2002, 09:22 AM
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Husker,
I had the Velo CT150 next to the Hsu for a short while. I say short, because the Velo degrades the system severly. I got rid of mine right away.
Also, when you set the "sub out" to out, it gets the crossover out of the way and uses the receiver crossover. How are 750's treating you? :)

Russ Tarvin
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post #186 of 460 Old 07-25-2002, 12:22 PM
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OK Russ and Steve, I set my VTF-3 to "out" and 90Hz on the crossover dial. I recalibrated and 6db hot is just between 9 and 10 o'clock(+4db actual on the meter). I have a 5000cu.ft. room and I am sitting in the middle with the sub in a corner, maybe this has something to do that I need a little more volume. Played a few DVD tracks with kick drums and deep bass guitar and sounds pretty good, actually great! This sub is so great for music, and HT is a no brainer. Thanks for the tips.

Ron
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post #187 of 460 Old 07-25-2002, 12:56 PM
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Now....you can equalize the thing using your Avia disc and running the decending bass test tones. I forget what they call them in the menu, but you'll find them. Those test tones will also tell you how well the sub is integrating with your mains. You are right in that a 5000 sq. ft. room may need a little boost.
Glad it's working out for you. It's a really nice sub.

Russ Tarvin
If it's too loud, you're too old.
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post #188 of 460 Old 07-28-2002, 05:21 PM
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Anyone have a couple VTF-2's in use? I have one VTF-3 that is a little large for my room (decor, waf) but interested in going to two VTF-2's. What would I lose or gain? I know a little extension but how about dynamics or impact?
thnx
andy
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post #189 of 460 Old 07-29-2002, 11:59 AM
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When is Hsu coming out with the 500 watt amp?
Is he going to build them into his box subs or are they just for his cylinder subs?
info, need info............
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post #190 of 460 Old 07-29-2002, 12:10 PM
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The 500w amp will be a new design. Class-H power supply with 35v and 70v rails. So with a 105v that the transistor has to withstand instead of the old 140v. It will allow for greater operation during dual sub setup.

A 5v and 70v rail would in theory be more sustainable due to the 75v going through the transistor all the time, but since the 5v rail will always be exceeded, it doesn't serve much purpose except during time swing in its complementary counterpart.

It will still be an individual unit.
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post #191 of 460 Old 07-29-2002, 12:30 PM
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lwang,

So this 500W amp will not fit into the VTF-3 subwoofer if I understand?

Well, anyway, Hsu will certainly make a VTF-4 subwoofer one day which have a 500W amp and with a better driver which can do 2 inches of excursion :D
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post #192 of 460 Old 07-29-2002, 12:32 PM
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So what will come first? The VTF-1 with the 1000w amp or the VTF-4 with the 500w amp? Or the new TN cylindrical subs?
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post #193 of 460 Old 07-29-2002, 12:55 PM
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Which sub is better as far as the existing box (VTF-3) vs tube (1220) goes?
Does one have an advantage for HT or Music over the other?
I know the 1220 can extend lower naturally but which has the higher spl output and overall better sound quality? I have heard that a cylinder usually equals less idstortion but flattens the sound more so than a cube. The VTF-3 has a very nice round sound to it, which sounds more like an additional speaker than an effect.

I have never heard the 1220 and I don't want to get into shipping expense back and forth just to experience it if it's not worth it.
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post #194 of 460 Old 07-29-2002, 01:10 PM
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The TN1220 has more internal volume, so it has the advantage of higher output in the low bass region. The 1220 also has less cabinet coloration since the cylindrical shape impedes no sound characteristics on its own.

Don't forget, all cylindrical subs are not the same, as is the fact that all box subs are not the same.

The rack mounted 500w amp has features more suited for 2ch speaker integration, with its discrete freq high and low pass filter. Something not available unless you hook up a whole buch of different boxes together.
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post #195 of 460 Old 07-29-2002, 06:04 PM
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What about the differences in output/spl in the 25-63hz between the VTF-3 & 1220?

That new amp Hsu is releasing, is that a single 500 watt amp that has outputs for 2 subs, which would make it a 250x2 or is it 500 per channel?
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post #196 of 460 Old 07-29-2002, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
That new amp Hsu is releasing, is that a single 500 watt amp that has outputs for 2 subs, which would make it a 250x2 or is it 500 per channel?
All of Hsu's amps are purposely build subwoofer amps. Building a 250x2 when the primary configuration for a subwoofer setup serves no purpose.

It is a 500w into 4ohms (1 sub), and probably ~900w into 2ohm (2 sub connected in parallel).


Hsu's VTF-1 didn't materialize because a 1000w subwoofer amp cannot be build affordably.
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post #197 of 460 Old 07-29-2002, 10:01 PM
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OH damn!!! A 1000W Hsu VTF-1 subwoofer :eek: :eek: :eek:
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post #198 of 460 Old 07-30-2002, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by firepinch
OH damn!!! A 1000W Hsu VTF-1 subwoofer :eek: :eek: :eek:

Hell, a 500watt VTF-1 would be WOW!


Hsu needs to bring out a new line of cylinder subs or do a update of the current ones to compliment the new amp. Isn't the 1220 & 1225 rated for 250 @4 ohms not 500? If this is the case, wont the new amp be overkill or cause even possible damage to those cylinder subs without updating them with new drivers that can handle the additional output?
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post #199 of 460 Old 07-30-2002, 08:56 AM
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That's what I don't get. The VTF-3 is only using a fraction of the power available to perform at high SPL's with plenty of headroom left. The driver bottoms before you run out of headroom. :D

Russ Tarvin
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post #200 of 460 Old 07-30-2002, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rt297
That's what I don't get. The VTF-3 is only using a fraction of the power available to perform at high SPL's with plenty of headroom left. The driver bottoms before you run out of headroom. :D
And it doesn't look like Hsu is building or updating his current line of cylinders. If he/they were, I would think it would be in the item description of the 500 watt amp. I wish they would add a picture of the back of this amp and a more detailed description.

Don't yah just love it when new toys are being announced?

Does anyone have 2 VTF-3's?
If so how far apart do you have them set up?
I was thinking stacking them when I get a 2nd.
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post #201 of 460 Old 07-30-2002, 10:23 AM
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SeanD up in Canada had 2 VTF-3's, but he was going to get rid of one because it was way overkill. I don't know if he did though. Someone else also has two, but I can't remember his name.
Are the drivers for the TN series still at the top?

Russ Tarvin
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post #202 of 460 Old 07-30-2002, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Hell, a 500watt VTF-1 would be WOW!
A 500w VTF-1 would not be enough. I talked to the Dr. about do some voice coil re-wiring so that it will in effect become a 2 ohm load (since it is 4 layer), thereby being able to wrestle 900 or so watts out of the current amp. It was an option, but it is not up to me.

Quote:
Hsu needs to bring out a new line of cylinder subs or do a update of the current ones to compliment the new amp. Isn't the 1220 & 1225 rated for 250 @4 ohms not 500? If this is the case, wont the new amp be overkill or cause even possible damage to those cylinder subs without updating them with new drivers that can handle the additional output?
The 1220 & 1225 could handle the 500w of power easily. it all depends on the freq one is driving it. I've seen the clip light turn flicker in the front and the sub shows no strain. I was told the 500w amp is not for the old 10V since that driver could not handle the 500w, but the 250w is perfectly fine for it.

Quote:

And it doesn't look like Hsu is building or updating his current line of cylinders. If he/they were, I would think it would be in the item description of the 500 watt amp. I wish they would add a picture of the back of this amp and a more detailed description.
Hsu doesn't pre-announce products months in advance just to hype people up. Nobody said there isn't a new TN sub. And who said there isn't updates to the existing TN sub? It is just not broadcast to the whole world.

The only reason the VTF-1 or something like the 500w amp is brought up is because it got pried out of Dr. Hsu.
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post #203 of 460 Old 07-30-2002, 10:56 AM
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Iwang, maybe you are misunstanding me or I you, but I am only trying to inquire more info on this amp and his new upcoming products if any.

BTW, it's good business practice to announce (hype) new upcoming products. Hype/advertising sells!
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post #204 of 460 Old 07-30-2002, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rt297
SeanD up in Canada had 2 VTF-3's, but he was going to get rid of one because it was way overkill. I don't know if he did though. Someone else also has two, but I can't remember his name.
Are the drivers for the TN series still at the top?
It wont be overkill in my room, which is very demanding on subs.

TN series still has the driver up top.
I don't mond them up top, but it would be better if they had protection/grill for the speaker. I am very interested in how they would stack up against a VTF-3 other than the TN 1220 being able to play louder at lower volumes.
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post #205 of 460 Old 07-30-2002, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Iwang, maybe you are misunstanding me or I you, but I am only trying to inquire more info on this amp and his new upcoming products if any.
We must have misunderstood each other, but you sounded like you wanted Hsu to provide that information on their website.

You can try to get that info from people on the web who might know something about it (like the VTF-4(I don't know anything about it))

Quote:
TN series still has the driver up top.
I don't mond them up top, but it would be better if they had protection/grill for the speaker.
Hsu was going to make a adaptor plate for the TN amp which goes between the dirver and tube, where it would have feet coming out of plate so as to allow for the driver to reside at the bottom. Instead of coming out with it for his current sub, he has other plans. I guess getting such a low production run might not be beneficial cost wise.

What would be interesting is a stand for subs laid out on the side, where one sub could be on top of each other. End result would still be something 2ft high and easily disappears behind shelves/rack/sofa.


SO what do you want to know about the amp?

What does a sub amp look like in the back? Line in/Line out. Main Speaker in/Speaker/out. Subwoofer speaker out. This one has a switch for crossover out and polarity switch and access panel for crossove rmodule change
.
Internals of the current amp:

500w mono amp, 800w or so when 2 subs are paralleled. Amp circuit designed by people at Crown. Class AB with a +/-70v rail. Soft clipping and different EQ setting for different sub (1220/1225). 6 output transsitors, 27,000 uF power supply capacitance. Metal film resistors and polycarbonate capacitors throughout the amp.

Crossover section: Seperate L & R high pass crossover, single summed low pass crossover. All crossover utilize Class-A circuitry, discrete crossover freq by plug-in resistor modules utilizing Sallen-Key topology in a cascading 12dB/oct layout to for a 24dB L-R crossover. State Variable crossover is not used due to it not being able to offer different HP/LP crossover freq. Infinitely variable crossover freq not utilized due to its bad sounding characteristics, especially in the high pass section.

Quote:
BTW, it's good business practice to announce (hype) new upcoming products. Hype/advertising sells!
I guess some people are more dedicated designers and others are more businessmen. Bose belongs in one group and Nelson Pass belongs in another. You go figure out where the other companies fits in.
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post #206 of 460 Old 07-30-2002, 01:14 PM
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Well, I guess that's more than enough info on the new amp to quench my thirst for knowledge ;)

Bose isn't exactly what I was shooting for as an example. :rolleyes:
How bout companies like Microsoft and Sony?
They base their existance around hype.
:eek:
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post #207 of 460 Old 07-30-2002, 04:31 PM
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Russ is correct,
I have 2 VTF-3s in my setup. My room is 16 X 26 X 7.5 with concrete floors. I have them stacked.I'm not sure if I'd say it was WAY overkill but I'm sure I could probably get away with one. I still might sell one yet.
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post #208 of 460 Old 07-30-2002, 05:49 PM
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Hi Sean,
Dragged you out of the woodwork huh? I tell you, I'm loving my little Hsu, so I know with 2 of them, you must be rockin'. Do you still have the SVS's as well?

Russ Tarvin
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post #209 of 460 Old 07-30-2002, 08:20 PM
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Hi Russ,
You did drag me out indeed. I haven't been posting much lately. I love the VTF-3s . I actually sold my SVS subs to a friend of mine who made me an offer I couldn't refuse. I was going to get the plus series SVS with the money from the sale but decided to try out the Hsu subs. The SVS subs were great for HT but IMHO the HSU have the edge for music (for my tastes anyway). Happy camper :)
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post #210 of 460 Old 07-30-2002, 08:26 PM
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Sean,
I know what you mean. A friend of mine has an SVS that I have listened to at his house. He never calibrates anything, so it never sounds right. I was going to bring it over to my house to audition it some, but now I'm happy enough to not want to rock the boat.

Russ Tarvin
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