NHT SuperZero 2.0's for 5.1 setup in large open room - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 25 Old 06-30-2012, 08:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Moved to a new house and am planning a reasonably priced HT setup. First thing to know is that the room is 18x16x18 (two story ceiling).

I'm currently looking at purchasing 5 SZ 2.0's, but need to know if that should be "enough" speaker to work with the space of the room. Was also planning on pairing the SZ's with an Emotiva X-Ref 10 or Ultra 12 (can get the Ultra 12 used locally), because I figure I need a larger sub to handle the cubic footage of the room. I'm currently undecided on the receiver.

My two biggest concerns are: will the SZ 2.0's be adequate for the space, and will something like an Emotiva Ultra 12 match well with the SZ2.0 without overpowering them?
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post #2 of 25 Old 06-30-2012, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trakslacker View Post

Moved to a new house and am planning a reasonably priced HT setup. First thing to know is that the room is 18x16x18 (two story ceiling).
I'm currently looking at purchasing 5 SZ 2.0's, but need to know if that should be "enough" speaker to work with the space of the room. Was also planning on pairing the SZ's with an Emotiva X-Ref 10 or Ultra 12 (can get the Ultra 12 used locally), because I figure I need a larger sub to handle the cubic footage of the room. I'm currently undecided on the receiver.
My two biggest concerns are: will the SZ 2.0's be adequate for the space, and will something like an Emotiva Ultra 12 match well with the SZ2.0 without overpowering them?

Honestly, they probably will not be enough. I own 3 on wall NHT L5 speakers. They do well in my room, but it is 10x12 with 8 foot ceilings. 86 dB sensitivity is pretty low, and that is a large space you need to fill. I would probably look for another option, maybe with a larger driver and definitely higher sensitivity, around 90+. Maybe take a look at the Infinity Primus 163. It has a 6 inch driver and is rated at 90 dB.

http://us.infinitysystems.com/product-detail-11657/p163bk.html

As for the sub, they will both also be lacking in that 5000 cubit foot room. You could never get any real output anywhere near 20 or likely even 30 Hz. But, it also depends on your listening preferences. If you end up with 5 satellite speakers that only play down to 120 or 100 Hz or so, adding one of the 2 subs you listed would definitely give you more punch down low and result in a much better sounding setup.

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post #3 of 25 Old 06-30-2012, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trakslacker View Post

Moved to a new house and am planning a reasonably priced HT setup. First thing to know is that the room is 18x16x18 (two story ceiling).

What is your max budget? Need to go bigger on the sats, and maybe check some
other subs.

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post #4 of 25 Old 06-30-2012, 09:32 PM
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would a 15 inch powered sub be good to help fill the space or even a 12 inch sub zieglj01?
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post #5 of 25 Old 06-30-2012, 09:41 PM
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No they won't be enough. I have SuperZeroes. I love them to death, but they're not great for HT, especially in a large room. They feel a little constrained at moderate and louder volumes.The dynamics just aren't great. I went to SuperOnes which are much better but you need good amplification to get enough volume from them.
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post #6 of 25 Old 06-30-2012, 10:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the responses! My budget is around $1200 all in (including receiver), though I could stretch that to a max of $1500 for the right combo.

I should also note that I would not consider myself an audiophile, as this will actually be my first HT setup. I'm just looking for something that sounds nice for movies and a fair bit of music - I'm shooting for something that's going to sound nicer than your run of the mill $500 HTIB.

I should also note that the rears will need to be wall-mounted, hence my looking at the SZ's for their relatively small size.

Thanks again for the input, and feel free to make alternate suggestions! I've still got a lot to learn. smile.gif
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post #7 of 25 Old 06-30-2012, 10:27 PM
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Check out this thread

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1417819/good-5-1-set-up-recommendations-1-500-budget

Ther are probably many others with similar budgets. That way you can get some more ideas.

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post #8 of 25 Old 07-01-2012, 06:48 AM
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For a subwoor, consider the PA-150 as a good budget sub that can handle a large room. HSU also has good speaker subwoofer combos in your price range.
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post #9 of 25 Old 07-01-2012, 07:46 AM
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I'd take a good hard look at the SVS SBS speaker systems. They have great dynamics and will easily fill your room.
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post #10 of 25 Old 07-01-2012, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnythan View Post

I'd take a good hard look at the SVS SBS speaker systems. They have great dynamics and will easily fill your room.

But their sensitivity is very low - 84.5dB @ 2.83V/m (which should be roughly the same as 1w/m if it's a true 8ohm load) for the SCS-02. The bookshelves are even lower. And it seems SVS no longer sells the towers.

I guess with strong enough amplification, and a reasonably close seating position - maybe they could work. But that's alot of space to fill.
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post #11 of 25 Old 07-01-2012, 09:57 AM
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Take a look at the PA 150 sub prices here
http://slickdeals.net/f/4628734-Premier-Acoustic-PA-150-1000-watt-Sub-15-for-299-delivered-AC

This is a nice receiver - Denon 891
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/DENAVR891/DENON-AVR-891-7.1-Channel-105W-A/V-1.4-3D-Ready-Receiver/1.html

You can also start with the HSU Hybrid 3 > 3.1 package - then save up for
the surrounds, and a second sub (if you want more bass).
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/hybrid3pkg.html
And, look at Denon 791 receiver
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/DENAVR791/DENON-AVR-791-7.1-Channel-A/V-Home-Theater-Receiver/1.html

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post #12 of 25 Old 07-01-2012, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keyboardcat View Post

would a 15 inch powered sub be good to help fill the space or even a 12 inch sub zieglj01?

In general, a well designed and engineered 15" subwoofer will out-perform a 12" one.
However I will take a good 12" subwoofer, over a weak sloppy 15" one. The thing is,
not everyone is looking for an ultimate head-banger set up >> also, that some people
simply desire a good system, and will be happy if it performs well at moderate listening
levels - and will be happy if the sub helps to fill in the lower bass > with their selected
5.0 speakers. There are some good options out there for family oriented listening, that
will spank the HTIB systems.

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post #13 of 25 Old 07-01-2012, 11:49 AM
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Those SZ speakers are totally inadequate for that room size, plus they have very low sensitivity. A bad choice in every respect.

You need front speakers that can deliver a reasonably large amount of power for that room, and they will not. You also want speakers for the front that you can operate down to 60 Hz. Operating the subwoofer above 60 Hz is highly undesirable.

I suggest you consider getting four of the Boston Acoustics Classic II CS26 speakers, for around $320, and a CS226CC for $100. They should do a good job. They go down to about 55 hz and can deliver plenty of power.

For some really good speakers, if you have the money, you could get a pair of KEF C3 speakers ($329) and C6 LCR speaker for $269 at the KEF Direct website, plus a pair of C1 speakers for $250.

A Denon 1612 receiver is a good reasonably priced receiver for your system.

The Ultra 12 subwoofer should be about right. Room size is the only consideration; not the other speakers.



Quote:
Originally Posted by trakslacker View Post

Moved to a new house and am planning a reasonably priced HT setup. First thing to know is that the room is 18x16x18 (two story ceiling).
I'm currently looking at purchasing 5 SZ 2.0's, but need to know if that should be "enough" speaker to work with the space of the room. Was also planning on pairing the SZ's with an Emotiva X-Ref 10 or Ultra 12 (can get the Ultra 12 used locally), because I figure I need a larger sub to handle the cubic footage of the room. I'm currently undecided on the receiver.
My two biggest concerns are: will the SZ 2.0's be adequate for the space, and will something like an Emotiva Ultra 12 match well with the SZ2.0 without overpowering them?
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post #14 of 25 Old 07-02-2012, 06:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the responses everyone! It's pretty clear I was off base with the thought of using the SZ's for the size room I have.

After reading through suggestions in this thread and other, I've narrowed in on two systems that I think would work for my room.

Setup One: 4x Primus P163 bookshelf speakers http://us.infinitysystems.com/product-detail-11657/p163bk.html
1x Primus PC351 Center speaker http://us.infinitysystems.com/product-detail-11657/pc351bk.html
1x Hsu Research VTF2-Mk4 () OR Outlaw Audio LFM-1 EX (http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/lfmEX.html).

Setup Two: Hsu Research Hybrid 2 5.1 Package http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/hybrid2pkg.html

Both of these setups would keep me in the ballpark of $1,500 with a reasonably priced receiver.


Do these options seem more in line with what I'm needing for 5k sq ft? Can anyone give input on either the Primus or Hsu speakers? Do either of the subs listed seem adequate?

Thanks!
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post #15 of 25 Old 07-02-2012, 06:22 AM
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Yeah that's a more appropriate setup. I'd avoid the HSU speakers. They're interesting, but they apparently just don't have the sound quality of others in the price range.

You could also consider the Ascend Acoustics. A pair of CBM-170 bookshelf speakers with a 340 center and HTM-200 surround speakers would probably run about the same as the Infinity.

BTW, the 163s might be a little big for surrounds depending on your setup. At 16 lbs each and 15 inches tall they're pretty big for wall mounting.
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post #16 of 25 Old 07-02-2012, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trakslacker View Post

Thanks for the responses everyone! It's pretty clear I was off base with the thought of using the SZ's for the size room I have.
After reading through suggestions in this thread and other, I've narrowed in on two systems that I think would work for my room.
Setup One: 4x Primus P163 bookshelf speakers http://us.infinitysystems.com/product-detail-11657/p163bk.html
1x Primus PC351 Center speaker http://us.infinitysystems.com/product-detail-11657/pc351bk.html
1x Hsu Research VTF2-Mk4 () OR Outlaw Audio LFM-1 EX (http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/lfmEX.html).
Setup Two: Hsu Research Hybrid 2 5.1 Package http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/hybrid2pkg.html
Both of these setups would keep me in the ballpark of $1,500 with a reasonably priced receiver.
Do these options seem more in line with what I'm needing for 5k sq ft? Can anyone give input on either the Primus or Hsu speakers? Do either of the subs listed seem adequate?
Thanks!

I like the Primus and HSU combo. Your room is still rather large for a single VTF2-Mk4, but the budget it the budget, and you could always add a second later on.
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post #17 of 25 Old 07-02-2012, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

The Ultra 12 subwoofer should be about right. Room size is the only consideration; not the other speakers.

While the Ultra 12 would be a nice sub for a room about half your size, as a smaller sealed sub, it doesn't have near the output that the other 12" ported subs you are considering do. The EX has much more SPL (volume) output than the Ultra 12, and will produce the lower frequencies much better (a plus for movie watching) . In case you are interested, here are reviews of each with measurements. The Ultra 12 measurements were taken at 1m away; the EX at 2m, so substract 6db from the Ultra 12 measurements when comparing the output.

The EX is the better choice over the HSU VTF-2 MK4 which would probably struggle a little in that size space at higher volumes when movie watching. The HSU VTF-3 MK4 is the comparable sub to the Outlaw EX in SPL if you want to go with HSU.

Either the Infinity Primus, Ascend Acoustics, or HSU speakers would work very well for you, and much better than the SuperZeros for your size room. I would think you would be very happy with any of those smile.gif

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post #18 of 25 Old 07-02-2012, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trakslacker View Post

Thanks for the responses everyone! It's pretty clear I was off base with the thought of using the SZ's for the size room I have.
After reading through suggestions in this thread and other, I've narrowed in on two systems that I think would work for my room.
Setup One: 4x Primus P163 bookshelf speakers http://us.infinitysystems.com/product-detail-11657/p163bk.html
1x Primus PC351 Center speaker http://us.infinitysystems.com/product-detail-11657/pc351bk.html
1x Hsu Research VTF2-Mk4 () OR Outlaw Audio LFM-1 EX (http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/lfmEX.html).
Setup Two: Hsu Research Hybrid 2 5.1 Package http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/hybrid2pkg.html
Both of these setups would keep me in the ballpark of $1,500 with a reasonably priced receiver.
Do these options seem more in line with what I'm needing for 5k sq ft? Can anyone give input on either the Primus or Hsu speakers? Do either of the subs listed seem adequate?
Thanks!

I vote for the Outlaw sub also, as stated above. It will do the best in that room and has lots of output.

As far as speakers, what you like is very subjective. The Kef C3 and Boston Acoustic CS26 suggested above both look pretty good too. The best would be to try and listen to some near you and figure out what you like.

Just one point though..the Hsu and Boston Acoustics speakers are rear ported while the Infinity and Kef have front ports. A rear ported speaker needs air behind it to breath. So, if the speakers are going to be wall mounted, on a stand near a wall, or stuffed in a cabinet, maybe lean towards the Infinity of Kef options.

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post #19 of 25 Old 07-02-2012, 10:34 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnythan View Post

Yeah that's a more appropriate setup. I'd avoid the HSU speakers. They're interesting, but they apparently just don't have the sound quality of others in the price range.
You could also consider the Ascend Acoustics. A pair of CBM-170 bookshelf speakers with a 340 center and HTM-200 surround speakers would probably run about the same as the Infinity.
BTW, the 163s might be a little big for surrounds depending on your setup. At 16 lbs each and 15 inches tall they're pretty big for wall mounting.

As someone who owns both the Primus and Hsu speakers, I can tell you the Hsu speakers are not lacking in quality. In fact, with regards to bass they have superior performance to all the Primus speakers except the P362/3. Those three-way Primus towers are really good speakers though, if your budget is strict, I would just skip the surrounds and get the p363. They really are that good.

That being said, you can get the Infinity p163 speakers for less than $90 each shipped, if you look around. That is a great deal. The mounts to use are the AM40 Pinpoint mounts, they can be had for about 60 for a pair. They can hold the 15 lbs with no problem and do not even require you to drill a hole in your speakers. The Outlaw LFM-1 EX sub will have stronger output than the VTF2 especially in the low end, but the VTF3 bests the LFM-1 EX in the very deepest bass. If you can afford it, the VTF3 is the way to go here, but sometimes those Outlaws have some killer sales. But they are all great subs and closely related.
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post #20 of 25 Old 07-02-2012, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

As someone who owns both the Primus and Hsu speakers, I can tell you the Hsu speakers are not lacking in quality. In fact, with regards to bass they have superior performance to all the Primus speakers except the P362/3. Those three-way Primus towers are really good speakers though, if your budget is strict, I would just skip the surrounds and get the p363. They really are that good.
That being said, you can get the Infinity p163 speakers for less than $90 each shipped, if you look around. That is a great deal. The mounts to use are the AM40 Pinpoint mounts, they can be had for about 60 for a pair. They can hold the 15 lbs with no problem and do not even require you to drill a hole in your speakers. The Outlaw LFM-1 EX sub will have stronger output than the VTF2 especially in the low end, but the VTF3 bests the LFM-1 EX in the very deepest bass. If you can afford it, the VTF3 is the way to go here, but sometimes those Outlaws have some killer sales. But they are all great subs and closely related.
i would hope the HSU speakers sound better as they cost 2x as much per pair compared to the primus.
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post #21 of 25 Old 07-02-2012, 12:32 PM
 
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The Hsus aren't quite 2x as expensive. First, you can't always get the Primus speakers for that cheap, they have to be on sale, and also you would have to get them on sale from somewhere that has free shipping to get them for less than 90. Second, the Hsus go on sale themselves sometimes, although they have never been that low. Also, unlike the Primus speakers, you do get discounts for buying the Hsus in packages. So, usually it's nowhere near a 2x price ratio, as the usual price for the p163 is $139. If there isn't a sale on them and you are getting the Hsu speakers in a package or on a sale, the Hsu can actually be cheaper.
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post #22 of 25 Old 07-02-2012, 09:27 PM
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true. i got my p163 pair for just 170 with free shipping from crutchfield. i was using the lower 85 price as opposed to the usual 139/ speaker.
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post #23 of 25 Old 07-03-2012, 12:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

As someone who owns both the Primus and Hsu speakers, I can tell you the Hsu speakers are not lacking in quality. In fact, with regards to bass they have superior performance to all the Primus speakers except the P362/3. Those three-way Primus towers are really good speakers though, if your budget is strict, I would just skip the surrounds and get the p363. They really are that good.
That being said, you can get the Infinity p163 speakers for less than $90 each shipped, if you look around. That is a great deal. The mounts to use are the AM40 Pinpoint mounts, they can be had for about 60 for a pair. They can hold the 15 lbs with no problem and do not even require you to drill a hole in your speakers. The Outlaw LFM-1 EX sub will have stronger output than the VTF2 especially in the low end, but the VTF3 bests the LFM-1 EX in the very deepest bass. If you can afford it, the VTF3 is the way to go here, but sometimes those Outlaws have some killer sales. But they are all great subs and closely related.

ShadyJ - Can you provide your thoughts on the Primus vs. Hsu speakers? Do you have a preference for HT vs. music? The Hsu's seem to have good reviews, but the consistent theme seems to be that they are fairly "restrained" or "laid-back" in their sound. I'm thinking folks are just implying these are very neutral speakers, but would appreciate your insight on how they sound in different applications.

Thanks to everyone else for their replies as well. The Primus P163s seem a good deal at $85 each (found a local place that will match that price), but as someone mentioned above, I'm concerned that using the large P163s as rear satellites (have to be wall mounted) would hurt the WAF. If I used P163s as the front L/R channels with a PC251 or 351 for center channel. Can someone recommend a good speaker to use for rear surrounds in the same ~$100 price range that would complement the Primus front channels?
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post #24 of 25 Old 07-03-2012, 06:38 AM
 
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Like I said, the Hsus have stronger and deeper bass than the p162s (the p162s are exactly the same as the p163, except for the color of the front baffle). The p162 have crisper treble, certainly hotter than the HB-1s. It might be for this reason that I can listen to the HB-1s more comfortably for longer periods of time at high volume levels. I prefer music on my HB-1s, but the Primus speakers do music great too. For movies they are both great. I would say if you have a larger room, the HB-1s are more appropriate since it seems like they can handle higher volumes more easily. For a smaller room, the p162s might be more appropriate since their off-axis performance is likely better and they don't have the controlled directivity of the Hsus. I think you would be happy with either speaker. If you can make the swing, the p363s would be better for large rooms, they have fantastic mids thanks to their superb mid woofer which is supposed to be one of the best being made today at any price. But again though, while I do find the highs to be a bit crisper and more enveloping, I do find the speaker more fatiguing then the Hsus for prolonged high volume listening, like an entire album.

For a center channel with the Primus, get the c351- like I said, those mid woofers are fantastic. For rears, you can use p153s or p143s, those are smaller and less expensive speakers then the p163s, and would serve fine as surround speakers.
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post #25 of 25 Old 02-10-2013, 10:56 AM
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Hi, Did you purchase the speakers for your home? What did you end up buying & are you happy with them? We have a big open room also & I am very interested in seeing what you did. Thank you so much!
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