Which is the better speaker value, Infinity Primus P363 or JBL ES80? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 1Likes
  • 1 Post By Gene DellaSala
  • 2 Post By Kach22
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 20 Old 07-04-2012, 09:26 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
hiwatt357's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I purchased a pair of Infinity Primus P363 speakers just a little over a month ago when Fry's had them for $99.00 each. While I am happy with the sound, I have to admit that the Audioholics review of them (http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/floorstanding/primus-p363) has me concerned in regards to the impedance of the speakers. I am powering them with a Denon AVR-1712.

Then I noticed that Fry's has the JBL ES80's for $277.00 per pair right now, and it made me wonder which was a better value.

There seems to be a lot of praise for the Infinity's being a really good value for the money, ,but many have mentioned the issue with the real-world impedance of them.

I haven't found as much information on the JBL's, but from what I have found, they seem to be pretty highly rated as well, and they are a more expensive speaker (not that that matters a whole lot). I do see several mentions of them being "dark" and "boxy-sounding", which doesn't bode well. I haven't seen anything in regards to their real-world impedance, though.

I am just beyond the 30 day window from the purchase date, and I don't even know whether I could persuade Fry's to allow me to return and exchange them, so it may be irrelevant, but I am still curious as to what you folks think.

"I got Jackie Onassis in my pants..." - The Dictators

Scott.
hiwatt357 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 20 Old 07-04-2012, 04:24 PM
AVS Special Member
 
smasher50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: right behind you
Posts: 2,167
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 61 Post(s)
Liked: 1308
don't believe the article the infinity web site say they are 8 ohm and you should be o.k to go.for $100 i think they are a steal inthis class of speakers just sorry theres no frys around me or i would of picked up a pair for myself although i don't need anymore speakers ran out of rooms to put them in just ask my wife and friends:)

i'm so laid back,i'm laid out
smasher50 is offline  
post #3 of 20 Old 07-06-2012, 10:37 AM
Senior Member
 
Gene DellaSala's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 383
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by smasher50 View Post

don't believe the article the infinity web site say they are 8 ohm and you should be o.k to go.for $100 i think they are a steal inthis class of speakers just sorry theres no frys around me or i would of picked up a pair for myself although i don't need anymore speakers ran out of rooms to put them in just ask my wife and friends:)

You are free to not believe the measurements in my review but these speakers are in fact 4 ohm NOT 8 ohm. The folks at Harman peer reviewed my review and acknowledged my findings. I encourage you to look closely at the impedance measurements and note even by IEC standards, these speakers would be classified as 4 ohm. Also, they are 3dB less efficient than Harman claims.

That being said, they are still a nice speaker for $4-600/pair and a midline Denon should have no problem running them.
somedude1 likes this.

Best Regards;

Gene DellaSala (GDS)
President,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Gene DellaSala is online now  
post #4 of 20 Old 07-06-2012, 11:08 AM
Member
 
Kach22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 79
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
You already own them and were previously satisfied until you started reading more about them, just keep them and save yourself the hassle. If nothing broke by now, you receiver should be fine; I think there would be a lot more backlash on these speakers if they were actually destroying everyones receivers.

Most importantly, remember that even if you buy speakers that are $10k a piece, there will be people who say there are things wrong with them and you should have gotten something else, and then call you an idiot (particularly on the internet). Relax and enjoy some music.
10credi and Luke Momjian like this.
Kach22 is offline  
post #5 of 20 Old 07-06-2012, 12:46 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cel4145's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 11,742
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 238 Post(s)
Liked: 768
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kach22 View Post

You already own them and were previously satisfied until you started reading more about them, just keep them and save yourself the hassle. If nothing broke by now, you receiver should be fine

The Denon 1712 is rated for 6 to 16 ohm. If you frequently run the receiver hard, I would be concerned about the long term effects of having a set of 4 ohm speakers on it because a receiver will often run hotter with a lower impedance ohm load.

Since Infinity's impedance rating has been shown to be incorrect, that's ammunition for requesting a Fry's return. Just tell them the truth about your receiver not being rated for 4 ohm if this worries you.

Your questions are answered:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

HT: Energy RC-50, RC-LCR, Veritas VS Surrounds | Dual CHT SS 18.1s | Denon AVR-888 | modified Dayton SA1000 | Antimode 8033C
Desktop: CBM-170 SE | SVS SB-1000 | Audio-GD NFB-11 | HK 3390
Headphone & Portable HE-400 | K612 Pro | HP150 | DX50 | E12
cel4145 is online now  
post #6 of 20 Old 07-06-2012, 12:59 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
zieglj01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 10,866
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 352 Post(s)
Liked: 463
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiwatt357 View Post

I haven't found as much information on the JBL's, but from what I have found, they seem to be pretty highly rated as well, and they are a more expensive speaker (not that that matters a whole lot). I do see several mentions of them being "dark" and "boxy-sounding", which doesn't bode well. I haven't seen anything in regards to their real-world impedance, though.
I am just beyond the 30 day window from the purchase date, and I don't even know whether I could persuade Fry's to allow me to return and exchange them, so it may be irrelevant, but I am still curious as to what you folks think.

Denon is not real concerned about 4 ohms - and your speakers have been working for you.
http://denon.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/58/~/4-ohm-speakers-with-denon-a%2Fv-receivers-or-power-amps

"In general, you’ll find that Denon products are designed to function with a wide variety of loudspeakers and have power supplies and output circuitry more than able to meet the current demands of low impedance loads. If using 4 ohm rated speakers, common sense should always be taken as to the volume level setting, as it is easier to overdrive or "clip" an amplifier with 4 ohm speakers than with speakers with a rating of 6~16 ohms."

__________________________________________
Who and Where - is the Way, the Truth and the Life?

Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30
zieglj01 is online now  
post #7 of 20 Old 07-06-2012, 01:17 PM
Member
 
nirvanayoda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 58
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
For what it's worth, I was thinking about buying those JBL speakers, so I went to Fry's on Wednesday to check them out in person. I absolutely hated them. They sounded very dark, muddy, low, and overflowing with base. This was with the receiver set to several different modes, including passing the sound through directly. I compared them to the Klipsch Reference Series speakers next to them, but there really wasn't any comparison as the Klipsch was balanced and clear. I suppose I should not have been surprised, as JBL is known for bass.

I haven't heard the Infinitys, so I can't comment on those. I have to imagine they sound much better, though.
nirvanayoda is offline  
post #8 of 20 Old 07-06-2012, 07:31 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cel4145's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 11,742
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 238 Post(s)
Liked: 768
Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

Denon is not real concerned about 4 ohms. . . "If using 4 ohm rated speakers, common sense should always be taken as to the volume level setting, as it is easier to overdrive or "clip" an amplifier with 4 ohm speakers than with speakers with a rating of 6~16 ohms."

Yeah, but Denon doesn't want to rate their AVRs at 4 ohms in their owner's manuals for some reason. Could just be the THD is higher (distortion often goes up when running at lower impedance load); could be that some 4 ohm rated speakers trip the protection circuitry. And it likely will cause the receiver to run much hotter. Thus, I would still caution that if you are someone who likes to run the receiver hard, probably not the best idea to use 4 ohm speakers.

Your questions are answered:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

HT: Energy RC-50, RC-LCR, Veritas VS Surrounds | Dual CHT SS 18.1s | Denon AVR-888 | modified Dayton SA1000 | Antimode 8033C
Desktop: CBM-170 SE | SVS SB-1000 | Audio-GD NFB-11 | HK 3390
Headphone & Portable HE-400 | K612 Pro | HP150 | DX50 | E12
cel4145 is online now  
post #9 of 20 Old 07-07-2012, 05:59 AM
AVS Special Member
 
smasher50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: right behind you
Posts: 2,167
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 61 Post(s)
Liked: 1308
i'm just surprised that harman has not publicly announced that these are 4ohm rated speakers or some kind of recall letter to those who own them warning of over heating and damaging of some not so suitable avrs or recievers

i'm so laid back,i'm laid out
smasher50 is offline  
post #10 of 20 Old 07-18-2012, 05:29 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
hiwatt357's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks for all of the responses and comments. I wasn't on here for a little while due to work, vacation, work and surgery.

I decided not to get the JBL's for various reasons, primarily because I had read more than one case similar to nirvanayoda's experience with the speakers sounding "muddy". I haven't noticed the Denon AVR-1712 running particularly hot, but then again, I haven't really cranked it. The volume usually stays at -20db or so, and I haven't had a chance to view a full Blu-Ray movie with them yet. I will keep an eye on them, though, and hope that the circuit protection will kick in should there be an issue.

Thanks once again for all of the replies!

"I got Jackie Onassis in my pants..." - The Dictators

Scott.
hiwatt357 is offline  
post #11 of 20 Old 03-01-2013, 06:24 PM
Newbie
 
Davemz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I know it's way past the time for returns but wanted to through my 2 cents in. The only hitch with the JBL es-80s is they need proper power to open up. Did a lot of digging online and found that people who give these at least 100 watts each are extremely satisfied with the performance on every level. I bought a set and power them with a Pioneer receiver at 100 watts per channel in 5.1 with Polk Monitor series on everything but the JBL fronts and watching bluray these crumble the walls. I can easily tell that they need more power though. $297. pair out the door at Frys and am extremely satisfied with my home theater. My experience extremely positive and theye're not at all fugly looking as someone had said in regards to the Infinity speakers.
Davemz is offline  
post #12 of 20 Old 03-15-2013, 05:50 PM
Member
 
khansha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 42
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Kind of curious - any opinions on the JBL ES 80s?
khansha is offline  
post #13 of 20 Old 05-27-2013, 06:54 AM
Member
 
screeli's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 30
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I just purchased the Pioneer SC-1222-K 600W that I have been told is rated for 4ohm. i too found the Fry's $108 deal, but am new to buying speakers so I wasnt sure if this was the right buy. I have to decide today if I'm going to get the Infinity Primus P363. What I'm currently considering is the Polk Audio RTi8, and the ARX A3c. Obviously they're not all the same price so i was trying to get a feel for best bang for the buck. I'm really hoping the P363 is up to par for that price i think is a steal!
screeli is offline  
post #14 of 20 Old 05-27-2013, 07:44 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
afrogt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 23,165
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Liked: 389
since you're purchasing locally you've got 30 days to return the Infinity speakers to Fry's if you don't like them. You get a full refund too so you really have nothing to lose.

Afro GT
afrogt is offline  
post #15 of 20 Old 05-27-2013, 09:19 AM
Member
 
screeli's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 30
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
i agree. im heading to bestbuy right now to see if theyll price match. they did when i found the pioneer on newegg for half off!
screeli is offline  
post #16 of 20 Old 05-27-2013, 03:06 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
afrogt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 23,165
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Liked: 389
Best Buy doesn't sell Infinity P363's to my knowledge.

Afro GT
afrogt is offline  
post #17 of 20 Old 05-27-2013, 03:15 PM
Member
 
screeli's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 30
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
bestbuy wouldnt match the price because they were only sold online by third party. boo...

heres the deal. i have until wednesday to decide on the Infinity Primus P363s. See my current options below and let me know your thoughts...

Option 1 - Infinity Primus P363 (2 for $265 after shipping) coupled with PC351 ($200) - $465 TOTAL
Option 2 - Polk Audio RTi12 (2 for $300 used coupled with CSi5 ($185 used) - $485 TOTAL
Option 3 - JBL E380 (2 for $340) coupled with JBL ES25 ($170) - $510 TOTAL

Comments would be greatly appreciated!
screeli is offline  
post #18 of 20 Old 06-24-2013, 12:23 PM
Newbie
 
Playback1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have a 10 month old 5.1 sound system made up of four Infinity P363s, an Infinity PC351 center channel and a Velodyne VX-11 10" powered subwoofer driven by a Denon AVR-1613 audio/video receiver. The system is positioned diagonally in a 15' by 13' living room with a 40” Samsung LED LCD TV above the PC351. The Infinity PC363's, Denon AVR and Velodyne VX-11 were purchased from Fry's Electronics. The PC351 center channel was purchased from Amazon.com.

The quality of the sound from this system is very good when well recorded CDs, DVDs and Blu-ray are played. My goal was to create a sound system that would make any well recorded musical instruments sound like the real instrument(s), voices or sound effects were being played in the listening room.
A good center channel speaker is very important as this system is used for listening to classical music and DVD/Blu-ray movies meaning that any type of sounds may be coming from any channel. The PC351, 80-20KHz 3 way speaker, combined with subwoofer provides a full range center channel and the four P363’s with automatic cross over to the common subwoofer does the same for the remaining channels.

The Denon AVR-1613 with room equalization decodes and drives the several speakers in a sound managed way using several possible decoding systems. I find for classical music the Pro logic II Music or the Multichannel modes usually work best but I run thru the several possible decoding modes when first playing an audio CD and place a label on the CD as to which decoding mode gives the most pleasing sound with spatial aspects. DVD and Blu-ray disks automatically trigger the correct decoding mode on the Blu-ray player and Denon AVR-1613.

AVR to speaker cabling consists of Monster brand XPHP-CL cable with 4% silver bearing solder used to 'tin' the cable ends. 20 GLS Audio Locking Series Banana Plugs available from Amazon.com were screw attached to the soldered ends of the stranded cable.

The plastic plugs on the Infinity speaker's binding post/banana plug can quickly and cleanly be removed by using a conical tipped, 15 watt soldering iron with the tip pushed into the center of the plastic plug until the plug starts to melt and distort. The plug will then stick to the conical soldering iron tip as the soldering iron is pulled back. The total process takes about 2 seconds and the gold plated banana connector on the speakers is left open, shining and clean. Be sure to remove the plastic plug from the soldering iron immediately after it is withdrawn as the plastic is melting and releasing vapors.

Using the locking banana plugs and 'tinning' the ends of the stranded Monster cable screwed to the locking banana plugs at both the AVR and the Infinity speakers made an audible difference in the sound clarity compared to making bare wire connections to the speaker binding posts. (This may be partly due to the elasticity of the plastic center around which each of the copper strands in Monster cable are wound possibly deforming with time thereby reducing the pressure when a binding post connection is made and possibly allowing some strands of the copper wire to actually not be in connection with the amplifier and speaker binding post. #16 gage lamp zip cord 15 feet in length terminated in a 7.5 ohm resistance showed a negliable loss over the audio frequency range and may be an entirely acceptable alternative to Monster brand cabling. However, only the monster cable was used in the final system setup).

The self-powered woofer is connected via co-axial cable between the LF output on the AVR and a ‘Y’ connector to both the co-axial inputs on VX-11. The VX-11 subwoofer's cutoff control is set to highest crossover frequency (140 Hz) so that the Denon AVR may choose the best crossover frequency based on each speaker and listening room characteristics.

The Denon AVR 1613 draws 44 watts from the 120 VAC power line when ON and 52 watts when playing 5.1 channel sound at a moderate listening level. This means that about 8 watts of true RMS audio power is being used for moderate sound pressure levels in a similar sized room thus indicating that any decent quality amplifier should be able to drive these speakers easily even though in some frequency ranges the input impedance of the P363s dips to 4 ohms.

Hope that this information is helpful.
Playback1 is offline  
post #19 of 20 Old 11-25-2013, 03:19 PM
Member
 
ask_j's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: CT
Posts: 68
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi I am similar situation of deciding between these two. I have already placed the order for Infinity @214 per pair but that is back ordered now, on black friday they have ES-80 @276 per pair. I currently have Denon 2112Cl, with energy take 5 and bic PL200. Which one of these should I consider?
ask_j is offline  
post #20 of 20 Old 11-27-2013, 04:45 PM
Newbie
 
Davemz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I would definitely get the es80 if you ever plan on upgrading your receiver. I compared the primus 363 and es80s at Frys and the JBLs definitely dominated. Dimension wise they're about twice as big, lol. The thing is..... the build quality and sound quality are also twice as good imho. I bought the JBLs and never regretted it for a second. However, I'm giving them about 120 watts each with a Denon AVR 3803 I scored on eba for $120. shipped. All I can say is wow! Here's a link to other reviews of proud es80 owners http://www.testfreaks.com/hifi-speakers/jbl-es80/
Davemz is offline  
Reply Speakers

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off