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post #1 of 32 Old 07-26-2012, 06:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi there,

Just a quick note here: not looking to start arguments about Bose.

I currently own a Bose Acoustimass 10 Series speaker system. I do love my Bose system, but I've always wondered what is actually better. I've seen a lot of "audiophiles" complain about the poor quality of Bose speakers systems.

I'm planning a move, and the new owner would like to keep my installed system. So I'm either going to buy the same system again, or (I'm hoping) you guys can convince me into a better way of spending $1000.

So, with a $1000 budget what SPEAKERS would you choose? It does not have to be a home theater in a box.

ps: I mention I have a Bose system, because I have tried other systems but have always preferred my Bose (literally set up multiple systems in my house). I was hoping someone with experience with a 5.1 Bose system could offer advice.

Thanks,
Have a great day!
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post #2 of 32 Old 07-26-2012, 07:29 PM
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Without getting too technical or bashing Bose, cause I'm not trying to... Are you set on having small satellite speakers? Or could you handle having some floorstanding speakers? If it's small speakers you're after, I'd recommend almost anything over Bose. Without going into technical aspects, they use the cheapest, most flimsy little paper cones and smallest little, cheap plastic enclosures. Again, not trying to bash, just stating what is. You could go with almost any other brand, Klipsch, Boston, Onkyo, Mirage, etc... You could search Google too. Pretty much any company out there that makes a satellite package will offer something built with better materials at less than half the price of a Bose package. It seems odd that you've heard countless other setups and think the Bose sound good. I guess I'd have to ask, what other speakers have you listened to? What type of room were they in? Are you absolutely certain everything was setup right? I've heard tons of speakers, small, large, tall, short, and Bose would be at the very bottom of my list for what I've heard.

Personally, if I were you, I'd buy a receiver and a couple of floorstanding speakers first, if $1,000 is your budget, save some more money and piece the rest of your system together down the road. I think you'd be much happier. Unless a Bose system is in a fairly small room, I think the speakers sound pretty strained and weak once you really need to crank the volume.

I'd look into spending maybe $300-$400 bucks on a receiver and then spend another $600 and get a set of decent towers, plenty of sales all over the internet on many different brands. Maybe add your center channel and surround speakers down the road. Look into getting a Denon, Onkyo, Yamaha, receiver, etc... Then get a couple of decent towers. Again, not bashing Bose, if you like them, that's what matters, but I think you could do a lot better and would be happier in the long run if you tried some other gear.

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Of course, I got it modified with the TK-427, which cheeks it up another, maybe, 3 or 4 quads per channel.
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post #3 of 32 Old 07-26-2012, 07:44 PM
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post #4 of 32 Old 07-28-2012, 07:54 PM - Thread Starter
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While those do seem like excellent suggestions, I'm looking for a complete setup (speaker wise) for $1000 or less that will perform better than my Bose. I don't have any intention on spending more, I know there's always better but I don't think that will be necessary :P
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post #5 of 32 Old 07-28-2012, 08:07 PM
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post #6 of 32 Old 07-28-2012, 11:29 PM
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2 pairs of Energy RC-10s @ $220/pr
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/542469405/energy-rc10?s_c=site_search

1 Energy RC LCR center speaker @ $250
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/542600578/

total for 4 bookshelf speakers and center = $690

Any one of the following 3 subwoofers.

1. Jamo sub650 @ $300
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/549645163/jamo-sub-650?s_c=site_search

2. Energy s10.3 @ $200
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882269026

3. Klipsch RW-12d @$300
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882269026

RW-12d comes on sale frequently, was $300 earlier this week.

I'm very confident this setup would blow your Bose AM-10 away.

So would these Jamo s606 towers with center and surrounds with any of the above subwoofers.
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/544231343/jamo-s606hcs3?s_c=site_search

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post #7 of 32 Old 07-28-2012, 11:31 PM
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What receiver do you own by the way? You obviously have one since the AM-10 package doesn't come with a receiver.

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post #8 of 32 Old 07-29-2012, 04:24 AM
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Pioneer SP-BS41-LR
DefTech ProCinema 600
Cambridge Audio Minx S215
NHT Super Zero 2.0

Any of those will blow the Bose completely away.

The most expensive one retails for $844

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post #9 of 32 Old 07-29-2012, 07:25 AM
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Put TV15 code in the shopping cart for 15% discount, a couple of these are a little over $1k but only a little.
If you like the Acoustimass 10 over any of these, well I really don't know what to say other than sit back and enjoy.

http://www.sounddistributors.com/buynow.asp?action=detail&prid=262&crid=63&cat_name=Home+Theater+Systems

http://www.sounddistributors.com/buynow.asp?action=detail&prid=127&crid=63&cat_name=Home+Theater+Systems

http://www.sounddistributors.com/buynow.asp?action=detail&prid=783&crid=63&cat_name=Home+Theater+Systems

http://www.sounddistributors.com/buynow.asp?action=detail&prid=691&crid=63&cat_name=Home+Theater+Systems

You might also contact Mike to see what kind of deal he can do for you, you have to call for prices.
Mike Garrett, AV Science Sales
Call Me: 585-671-2968
Email Me: Mike@AVScience.com

Regards,
Charlie

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post #10 of 32 Old 07-29-2012, 08:06 AM
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What is the size of your room?

All good choices mentioned here. All would blow away your Bose. How about something from an ID company?

Five Ascend Accoustics 200SE speakers $714 w/ shipping.
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/htm200/htm200.html

Combine them with one of the subs Afrogt mentioned.

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post #11 of 32 Old 07-29-2012, 02:19 PM
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4 Pioneer FS-51 towers
Pioneer C21 or C22 center
plus one of the subs mentioned earlier

or there is a best buy deal that just expired for 2 Pioneer FS-51s, a Pioneer c21 center, and 2 Pioneer BS-21s for surrounds for under 200$
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post #12 of 32 Old 07-29-2012, 02:47 PM
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It would be hard to beat this deal over at Crutchfield for a All-In-One Speaker system espesiclly for someone who is wanting to keep the total at around $1000. leaves plenty for upgrading to a new receiver...

Energy RC-Micro 5.1 http://www.crutchfield.com/p_732RCMIC/Energy-RC-Micro-5-1.html?tp=184

and for a bit more and better sub this is pretty decent....

Definitive Technology ProCinema 400 http://www.crutchfield.com/p_735PCIN4B/Definitive-Technology-ProCinema-400.html?tp=184



....and as for as AVR's something like

Yamaha RX-V473 http://www.crutchfield.com/p_022RXV473/Yamaha-RX-V473.html?tp=179

or

Denon AVR-1713 http://www.crutchfield.com/p_033AV1713/Denon-AVR-1713.html?tp=179
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post #13 of 32 Old 07-29-2012, 04:07 PM
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fwiw, don't know how big room is but if its small to medium size heres a suggestion
pair of infinity p163- fronts $217
infinity pc351 center $199
pair of infinity p153 -rears $146

premier acoustics pa-150 sub $425 acoustic sound design make offer on website can get it cheaper

i'm so laid back,i'm laid out
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post #14 of 32 Old 07-30-2012, 05:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Excellent responses, thank you guys! I'm still going to do research, but this gives me some products to at least start with. The room size will most likely be around 20'x16'. I did not mention the receiver/amp because I figured that was another topic. I will have to buy a new sound system, so I'm trying to determine if I want to go with Bose again, or try something new for a similar price ( and will it sound better).

I do still very much like my Bose, I got it at a very good price too. $400 seems good to me anyway, I've yet to be blown away by Polk Audio systems my friends have, and the like. I know Bose modifies all the sounds that pass through it, but I'm okay with that- as long as it sounds better. I like my explosions, bass, techno-music goodness. It's lame I know, but with Bose you essentially have Rolexes on your walls, so sometimes the compliments are cool- not ganna lie :P
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post #15 of 32 Old 07-30-2012, 05:06 PM
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Rolexes? Really? Never heard anyone say that before about Bose products.

Afro GT
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post #16 of 32 Old 07-30-2012, 05:36 PM
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The bottomline, there is a reason why Bose does not post measurement graphs of their speakers, and a reason few folks here recommend them. I know they sound good to you, but I compared a Bose system to some RBH bookshelf speakers and a subwoofer, and there was no comparison. The RBH bookshelves sounded so much fuller. Better highs and lows. Some good recommendations in this thread, all of which will be better than Bose.
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post #17 of 32 Old 07-30-2012, 10:39 PM
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you can check the EMP Tek E55Ti tower speakers for 557 a pair

EMP Tek 30-Day Risk Free Trial Return and Refund Policy.


http://www.emptek.com/e55ti_js.php




E56Ci Center Channel Speaker $315



E55Wi Surround On-wall Speaker $350 pair


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post #18 of 32 Old 07-30-2012, 11:24 PM
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To each his own. If you like how your Bose sound, so be it. But you also want to know if you can get "more" out of your money and you certainly can.

All suggestions here are good, but I think you may get burried here by too much info. If you want something simple, complete, and amazing sounding, get the following.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882120187&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-_-pla-_-NA-_-NA

You can get it cheaper if you google.

My uncle has it in his house and it sound incredible for the price. My own system costs about 4 or 5 times as much but the Onkyo is definitely an amazing system. It comes with everything you need and even Audyssey.


Only one moot point with the Onkyo system. Their cables are junk. You should use your own, thicker gauge speaker wire. Example Blue Jean cables. Google them. Good luck


Ray


EDIT: HOLY SH... Newegg has the Onkyo system for a killer price. Put it in your shopping cart for the real price. I think this is unbeatable for its price plus you have a lot of money left for other things like better cables and maybe speaker stands etc.

Projector: AE7000
Screen: 5x12 Wilson Art Laminate Designer White
Receiver: Denon 2112Ci
Fronts: DefTech 8020ST
Center: DefTech 8040HD
Side Surround: DefTech SR 8040 BPs
Rear Surround: DefTech PM 1000s
Subwoofers: 2x HSU VTF 15H's
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post #19 of 32 Old 07-30-2012, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raehza View Post

To each his own. If you like how your Bose sound, so be it. But you also want to know if you can get "more" out of your money and you certainly can.

All suggestions here are good, but I think you may get burried here by too much info. If you want something simple, complete, and amazing sounding, get the following.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882120187&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-_-pla-_-NA-_-NA

You can get it cheaper if you google.

My uncle has it in his house and it sound incredible for the price. My own system costs about 4 or 5 times as much but the Onkyo is definitely an amazing system. It comes with everything you need and even Audyssey.


Only one moot point with the Onkyo system. Their cables are junk. You should use your own, thicker gauge speaker wire. Example Blue Jean cables. Google them. Good luck


Ray


EDIT: HOLY SH... Newegg has the Onkyo system for a killer price. Put it in your shopping cart for the real price. I think this is unbeatable for its price plus you have a lot of money left for other things like better cables and maybe speaker stands etc.


are you okay?seriously are you kidding?

zenvent you cant go wrong with afroggt advice, Is the best so far for your budget.

Panasonic 65VT60 / Marantz SR7005 / Marantz UD7007 /2 PSA XS30 /Revel Performa3 F206 / Revel Performa3 C205 / Revel Surrounds/Sonos Connect/ Roku 3 / Amazon Fire tv / Xbox One / HTPC / Darbee 5000 /Sonos for bedrooms,kitchen,bathroom/Master bedroom Sonos sound bar/Sonos sub and Sonos surrounds.
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post #20 of 32 Old 07-31-2012, 12:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raehza View Post

To each his own. If you like how your Bose sound, so be it. But you also want to know if you can get "more" out of your money and you certainly can.
All suggestions here are good, but I think you may get burried here by too much info. If you want something simple, complete, and amazing sounding, get the following.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882120187&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-_-pla-_-NA-_-NA
You can get it cheaper if you google.
My uncle has it in his house and it sound incredible for the price. My own system costs about 4 or 5 times as much but the Onkyo is definitely an amazing system. It comes with everything you need and even Audyssey.
Only one moot point with the Onkyo system. Their cables are junk. You should use your own, thicker gauge speaker wire. Example Blue Jean cables. Google them. Good luck
Ray
EDIT: HOLY SH... Newegg has the Onkyo system for a killer price. Put it in your shopping cart for the real price. I think this is unbeatable for its price plus you have a lot of money left for other things like better cables and maybe speaker stands etc.
That right there is why I say a THX certification is basically worthless. You might hit reference levels if the room is not larger than 5X5!

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post #21 of 32 Old 07-31-2012, 01:08 AM
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THX certified system in a box and bose = marketing gimmick

Panasonic 65VT60 / Marantz SR7005 / Marantz UD7007 /2 PSA XS30 /Revel Performa3 F206 / Revel Performa3 C205 / Revel Surrounds/Sonos Connect/ Roku 3 / Amazon Fire tv / Xbox One / HTPC / Darbee 5000 /Sonos for bedrooms,kitchen,bathroom/Master bedroom Sonos sound bar/Sonos sub and Sonos surrounds.
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post #22 of 32 Old 07-31-2012, 06:42 AM
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Onkyo makes great receivers. Onkyo DOES NOT make great speakers...the BA or Energy systems recommended above with a Denon or Onkyo receiver would give you a very good system and way better than satellite speakers, like Bose. Physicis tells you- small drivers equal small sound!

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and SLS Q line Audio surrounds, EMP 10i10i sub
Set up #2: Def Tech SM450, CLR2002, SLS Qline surrounds and Klipsch 12wD sub
Set up #3: JBL130, JBL120C and Klipsch synergy sub
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post #23 of 32 Old 07-31-2012, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zenvent View Post

Excellent responses, thank you guys! I'm still going to do research, but this gives me some products to at least start with. The room size will most likely be around 20'x16'. I did not mention the receiver/amp because I figured that was another topic. I will have to buy a new sound system, so I'm trying to determine if I want to go with Bose again, or try something new for a similar price ( and will it sound better).
I do still very much like my Bose, I got it at a very good price too. $400 seems good to me anyway, I've yet to be blown away by Polk Audio systems my friends have, and the like. I know Bose modifies all the sounds that pass through it, but I'm okay with that- as long as it sounds better. I like my explosions, bass, techno-music goodness. It's lame I know, but with Bose you essentially have Rolexes on your walls, so sometimes the compliments are cool- not ganna lie :P

I know many people who own Bose systems and think the same as you, but it is just a simple matter of being exposed to something better (that costs the same) to change your opinion.
Not to pick on Polk either, but you mentioned them. They are also near the bottom of my speaker list so it is quite possible the Bose system sounds better especially if you are comparing to a Polk 5.1 channel system that cost $500 total.
If the Acoustimass 10 system retailed at $400 I think there would be very little complaining about them on the forum, at that price you could do worse.
Problem is Amazon has the Bose listed at $999 and at that price they are just not competitive and I think it would be hard to do worse than the Bose no matter what 5.1 channel system you picked.
It is well proven that people hear with much more than their ears, in your mind Bose is a Rolex, your friends must feel the same if they compliment you on your system, which strengthens the belief the Bose sound good.
You also own these speakers and are accustomed to their sound so you expect any speaker that sounds good to sound the same.... I had to fight through that when I was replacing my 30 year old speakers.
In the end it is you that has to live with and listen to whatever you buy, so if you really want more Bose then that is probably what you should get.

Regards,
Charlie

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post #24 of 32 Old 07-31-2012, 03:39 PM
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Woah guys calm down. I didn't say "PICK THIS BECAUSE IT"S GOT THE THX CERTIFICATION!!!". I have personal experience with the system and am more than confident that it will way surpass his Bose system for a mere 650 bucks and change. He still has money left for other things plus it's an easy HTIB set up.

I didn't make that HTIB

Projector: AE7000
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Receiver: Denon 2112Ci
Fronts: DefTech 8020ST
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Side Surround: DefTech SR 8040 BPs
Rear Surround: DefTech PM 1000s
Subwoofers: 2x HSU VTF 15H's
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post #25 of 32 Old 08-01-2012, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
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@raehza, I think they're complaining because it's not going for $650 but for $1099 in shopping cart (at least for me it is right now).

@chashint, I completely agree, well written. I know I've grown accustomed to these speakers, and that is why I'm being very warry with "professinoal" advice. I have heard $10,000 systems and felt they sounded like "crap". In all reality I've probably grown custom to my Bose distortion sound.

I purchased my Bose for $400 refurbished, and I got an onkyo receiver for $150 refurb. The system sounds very good for the money, but it leaves something to be desired after having it for 5 years or so. Especially when I have to buy a new system anyway.

I am going to attempt to check out some of the recomended speakers in person, to see if I actually like the sound. I'm still looking for suggestions, and I'd love to hear about any all in one systems if they seem worth it.

I can get another Bose Acoustimass 10 for about $700 with receiver at this very moment, so that is the competition smile.gif
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post #26 of 32 Old 08-01-2012, 10:39 AM
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There are speakers systems that will measure better than Bose. Bose systems have no tweeters and no real subwoofer, so they will leave significant gaps in the freq response. There are small satellite systems that measure better than Bose (look at the CA Minx system and the published freq responses...). But if the Bose system sounds good to you, then why fix what ain't broken?

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and SLS Q line Audio surrounds, EMP 10i10i sub
Set up #2: Def Tech SM450, CLR2002, SLS Qline surrounds and Klipsch 12wD sub
Set up #3: JBL130, JBL120C and Klipsch synergy sub
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post #27 of 32 Old 08-01-2012, 10:48 AM
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if you're convinced the Bose sounds great to you and is all you need then get another AM-10 system.

But the recommendations you have been given are all better than the AM-10.

It is YOUR money so do what works best for you.

Afro GT
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post #28 of 32 Old 08-01-2012, 11:39 AM
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It does come down to individual choice, and if you love your Bose, then stay with them and be happy. You asked for better than Bose, partially out of curiosity and because you have a choice to make, whether to leave the speakers behind and get something different or replace them with more Bose. Like you mentioned, there is also the Rolex factor, in that the Bose marketing has made them the Cadillac of speakers.

Some things to consider - most if not all of the speakers suggested, in tandem with the subs included will cover the whole human listening range of ~20Hz to 20KHz. If there are dropouts or fluctuations, then you are either missing sounds, dialog, etc. from movies, music, games that you're playing.

The Bose system has gaps at:

20 Hz to 46Hz , 200 to 280Hz, 13.5kHz and above.

That means that you are unable to hear those sounds, since the speakers can't reproduce them. You may hear the harmonics to them, which are much weaker copies of them at other frequencies, but they are not the main signal.

The human listening range covers these frequencies that we're all interested in for music and voice (song and dialogue) - I've highlighted the sounds that the Bose speakers will not cover:

For Instrumental Music:

Instrument Frequency range Hz
Piano (concert) 27.50 - 4,186.00 Low end, covered by a good sub, other range just missing.
Bass Tuba 43.65 - 349.23 upper half,
Double Bass 41.20 - 246.94 top end
Cello 65.41 - 987.77 in the lower area
Viola 130.81 -1,174.00 in the lower area
Violin 196.00 - 3,136.00 low tones
Clarinet 164.81 - 1,567.00 low area
Flute 261.63 - 3,349.30
French horn 110.00 - 880.00 low end
Trombone 82.41 - 493.88 middle half
Trumpet 164.81 - 987.77 mid to low
Guitar 82.41 - 880.00 lower area of notes

For human voices:

Type of voice Frequency range Hz
Bass 87.31 - 349.23 heavily affected
Baritone 98.00 - 392.00 as is this
Tenor 130 - 493.88 mid to lower half
Contralto 130.81 - 698.46 lower area
Soprano 246.94 - 1,174.70 mostly unaffected

Any sounds over 13KHz you won't hear either. Human hearing goes up to 20KHz, most people vary, but for example I was tested and can hear to 17.5KHz (getting older).

Here's some more information on frequency vs. what you want to hear

Another problem with Bose speakers that has been identified is that the range of their activity is measured (independently) at +/- 10.5 db for their response across these frequencies. That means that the ability to reproduce the above sounds for Bose speakers is withing a large sound range as opposed to most speakers which are measured at being able to reproduce them with +/- 3db or so reliability. So no only are there gaps in the sounds being produced, but also the variability of the sound is 3 X what is expected from other speakers.

In the end, though you have to be happy with your speakers. If you decide to go with Bose because that's what you like, then more power to you, but these are the deficiencies in Bose speakers, and the suggestions you've been given correct those to a large degree.
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post #29 of 32 Old 08-01-2012, 01:58 PM
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a member Wingman0121 of caraudio he disassemble a bosecube and describes what he saw.

here is the link
http://www.caraudio.com/forums/home-audio-video/466497-closer-look-bose-jewel-cube-speaker.html

A closer look at a Bose Jewel Cube speaker


So I got a bunch of these Bose speakers, sold them all except this one because it came defective from the factory, so I decided to give it an autopsy...


Accidentally pushed the dustcap in... rarely does a speaker look about the same after you did that.



Molded plastic frame and cabinet with some poly-fill inside, strangely the inside of the white cabinet is smooth just like any other plastic, so that sort-of-a-cabinet feel on the outside is an added finish. Those internal speaker wires are solid-core.

The driver? I donno about you but it looks like it came out of a TV Shielded so we can't see the actual size of the magnet.



Why do they cost so much if it's made in Mexico?



I cut the cone assembly off and the cone isn't very solid, I can bend it easily with my finger even if I just touch it. The coil and spider looks pretty ordinary.




Top of the pole.




I was able to sell working pairs of these single cubes for about $60. For that money you can buy a set of used JBLs or Cerwin Vegas, which would definitely sounds hell of a lot better.


Panasonic 65VT60 / Marantz SR7005 / Marantz UD7007 /2 PSA XS30 /Revel Performa3 F206 / Revel Performa3 C205 / Revel Surrounds/Sonos Connect/ Roku 3 / Amazon Fire tv / Xbox One / HTPC / Darbee 5000 /Sonos for bedrooms,kitchen,bathroom/Master bedroom Sonos sound bar/Sonos sub and Sonos surrounds.
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post #30 of 32 Old 08-01-2012, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zenvent View Post

I have heard $10,000 systems and felt they sounded like "crap".

I have never heard a $10K system that sounded like crap.
Please give details of this experience, I would like to know what speakers and where you auditioned them.

Regards,
Charlie

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