Clarification on technological advancements in tweeters - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 83 Old 07-31-2012, 10:41 PM - Thread Starter
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So technology is rapidly changing and im trying to keep up. But questions arise, and i can never find the answers i really want, even with googles help lol.
So to start, it would be awesome if some of you audiophiles can throw in some of your own opinions and facts to help discuss what you think of between different/newer tech vs tried and true tech.

My first would be: Silk dome tweeters VS Beryllium inverted dome

Im runing in my home theater, Dynaudio D-28 for tweeters. Yes they are dated, but amazing in sound. A friend of mine recently persisted his own facts that Focal's Beryllium inverted dome is by far much better than dynaudio's Silk dome. Even to say, they are the best tweeters in the world. He said they sound better in every way, and are more accurate. I have never heard the Beryllium dome tweeters...

What do you guys think?
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post #2 of 83 Old 08-01-2012, 04:25 AM
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I think that most experts agree that the best tweeters on the market are ribbon tweeters, but of course they are very expensive. There are certainly other types that have been taken to a very high performance level though. One big issue with tweeters, of course, is the horizontal dispersion pattern, which can limit where you can sit.

The Monitor Audio Gold series uses ribbon tweeters, for example.

The Gallo Acoustics speakers use a unique tweeter with a hemispherical diaphragm with near-180 degree dispersion pattern that gives listeners better sound in a wide area. That is a very nice-sounding tweeter with unique characteristics.

One thing that is interesting is to actually find out what one can hear. A friend of mine was waxing lyrical over tweeter characteristics until he had an actual hearing test at an audiologist and found out that he doesn't hear anything to speak of above 4500 Hz...lol.

In any case, there is very little musical content of any kind above 6 Khz, so tweeters that advertise response up to 20 or 30 Khz are kind of ridiculous. The violin and piccolo can go up to around 4000 Hz, and other instruments only go to about 2 Khz. Sound quality is the issue, not extended frequency response.

It is pretty common for adult males to hear very little above 6 or 7 Khz. Don't assume you can hear higher than that until you get tested. You probably can't.
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post #3 of 83 Old 08-01-2012, 04:36 AM
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What facts did your friend bring forward to conclusively state that the tweeters he favors are superior? By themselves, inverted domes are nothing new and I have a paper that analyzed sundry tweeters that claimed to be Beryllium but had precious little of the element. This isn't to say the Focal's are inferior but speakers are systems and one cannot arbitrarily substitute one tweeter for another.

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
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post #4 of 83 Old 08-01-2012, 07:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey, thanks for reply's.

As far as how high i can hear, i haven't been tested by a professional. however i played audible frequencies on my system until i could no longer hear them. 26 khz was the max i reached (im only 25 years old).
you know those older T.V. sets from the 80's? They always made high pitched noises that drove me nuts sometimes lol

@ Chu Gai, what my friend brought to the table, was his own word saying he has facts and magazines claiming the beryllium tweeters from focal are the most accurate tweeters in the world. and therefore being the best because they also sound the best.

Tho what i find funny is how someone like him can say this tweeter is oh so accurate, but in a real world set up, if the tweeter is THAT quick, it can throw off the system balance by overwhelming the mids.. In a "technical" setup, the tweeter should be placed a few inches (depth) back from the mid. considering frequencies travel at different speeds, you want the tweeter to hit your ear at the same time as the mid/bass. IF the tweeter gets there first, your actually depreciation the sound..

He has no clue what im talking about with that..
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post #5 of 83 Old 08-01-2012, 02:51 PM
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FYI the high-pitched sound that you can hear from many older (non-HDTV) TV sets is the horizontal oscillator frequency, which is radiated as an audio wave by the vibration of the Horizontal amplifier coupling transformer. It is slightly above 15 Khz. I could hear that when I was your age, but few men over 40 can hear it.

What you are talking about is an array that is phase and time aligned, a concept which was pioneered and advanced by the designs of Richard Vandersteen, who makes some of the best-sounding speakers in the world.
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post #6 of 83 Old 08-02-2012, 12:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post


One thing that is interesting is to actually find out what one can hear. A friend of mine was waxing lyrical over tweeter characteristics until he had an actual hearing test at an audiologist and found out that he doesn't hear anything to speak of above 4500 Hz...lol.

In any case, there is very little musical content of any kind above 6 Khz, so tweeters that advertise response up to 20 or 30 Khz are kind of ridiculous. The violin and piccolo can go up to around 4000 Hz, and other instruments only go to about 2 Khz. Sound quality is the issue, not extended frequency response.

It is pretty common for adult males to hear very little above 6 or 7 Khz. Don't assume you can hear higher than that until you get tested. You probably can't.

Sorry, but I just couldn't let this slide.

FYI, Someone who can't hear much above 4500Hz has some SERIOUS hearing loss. Common for adult males to hear little above 6-7kHz? Are we talking about normal humans, or the ones who spent their entire childhood cranking their headphone volumes past the maximum level? I might understand if you simply missed typing a 1 in front of ALL those numbers, but certainly not 4.5kHz, 6kHz or 7kHz.

The average adult who hasn't suffered severe hearing damage/loss from dangling lit firecrackers next to their ears, can generally hear to about 15-16kHz. Younger folks (and some older folks who are very fortunate, or have taken precautions to avoid exposure to high SPL's) can hear anywhere up to 22kHz (few folks, even young ones can hear higher than that, but many playback systems likely produce distortion/harmonics in the audible range when attempting to play that high).

There's a site called Mosquito Ringtones specifically meant for young folks with cellphones. It has ringtones ranging from 22kHz down to ~15kHz. As the site details, "most adults can't hear much past 15kHz, so listen to all the tones and use the highest audible frequency, and you can now have your cellphone ring in class and your teachers will probably never hear it".

BTW, as far as music not having much past 6kHz, cymbals and many other instruments produce frequencies above 6kHz. Listen to cymbals on speakers that are flat to 20kHz vs speakers that roll off at 12-13kHz (eg. some Bose examples) and anyone without severe hearing damage should be able to clearly hear the difference. Look for a program by Harman called 'How To Listen' and it will let you hear the differences between the same tracks played with a boost or dip at various frequencies.
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Originally Posted by Zero.exe View Post

@ Chu Gai, what my friend brought to the table, was his own word saying he has facts and magazines claiming the beryllium tweeters from focal are the most accurate tweeters in the world. and therefore being the best because they also sound the best.

Tho what i find funny is how someone like him can say this tweeter is oh so accurate, but in a real world set up, if the tweeter is THAT quick, it can throw off the system balance by overwhelming the mids.. In a "technical" setup, the tweeter should be placed a few inches (depth) back from the mid. considering frequencies travel at different speeds, you want the tweeter to hit your ear at the same time as the mid/bass. IF the tweeter gets there first, your actually depreciation the sound..

He has no clue what im talking about with that..
All frequencies travel at the speed of sound through the air. Different frequencies don't travel at different speeds, they travel at the same speed for a medium of given density i.e. ALL frequencies travel faster through metal than they do through air. When using some EQ like Audyssey, the measuring mic needs to be isolated from vibrations through the floor because they travel faster through the floor than through the air, potentially throwing of the distance/delay settings especially for low frequency capable speakers and subs (the low frequencies don't travel any faster through the floor than the other frequencies, but it's the lowest octaves that are more likely to vibrate the floor). The crossover circuits built into multi driver speakers though, can (and do) cause varying delays and hence phase differences which is why some manufacturers compensate with 'time-aligned' designs with the drivers at varying depth offsets to accommodate the different delays.

Although Focal's Beryllium tweeters are very good, the overall design of the speaker is of greater importance than the material of the tweeter, and as far as the inverted dome Beryllium tweeter being the 'Best Tweeter In The World', that's just marketing. There are many tweeter materials and designs that sound fantastic AND measure incredibly well. There are ribbon tweeters like the Raal, the many Heil AMT variations that have sprung up since that patent expired, not to mention dome tweeters made with more conventional materials. Some of them do have certain characteristics and drawbacks of course, eg. some silk dome tweeters start rolling off sooner and aren't flat to 20kHz. Some metal dome tweeters develop resonance and/or produce distortions at higher frequencies (actually they all do, it's just whether it matters in the audible range).

Yes, Focal makes some very nice speakers that sound great and measure very well too, but so do MANY other speaker manufacturers using different types of tweeter designs and materials.


Max
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post #7 of 83 Old 08-02-2012, 02:08 AM
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As usual commysman is putting out more bad info.
Billy p likes this.

Dumb enough to spend lots of cash on this junk!
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post #8 of 83 Old 08-02-2012, 06:55 AM
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Most of the time Audio isn't like seeing the big difference between a 1080p blu-ray and a 480p DVD on a 80" TV.

With Audio, the differences are there, but usually small and most of us won't be able to tell the difference if we perfectly level match the comparison.

I'm talking about comparisosn among quality audio, not TV speakers and boom boxes and bad speakers. biggrin.gif

So when you see people say that one tweeter or driver technology is significantly better than another, one amp is so much better than another, one wire is better than another, one CD player or DAC is so much better than another, it is just bias.

Everyone has a different opinion.

It's funny how everyone thinks his speakers, amps, pre-pro, and media players are the best, isn't it? biggrin.gif
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post #9 of 83 Old 08-02-2012, 07:15 AM
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Bad information?? I have my facts right; I don't know what your problem is.

Talk to any audiologist if you don't believe me.

My audiologist (at Kaiser hospital) is the one that told me that men over 40 can seldom hear 10 Khz, and she has actually tested thousands of them. Men under 30 do much better, of course.

My wife can only hear up to 13 Khz, and I can only hear up to 8 khz, but our audiologist says that that is much better than average for people over 60. It certainly has no effect on listening to music, since there is no significant musical content above 6 Khz anyway. Cymbals will produce frequencies around 10 Khz when brushed with wire brushes, but their normal output is much lower. Nothing else is that high.

A chart of the instruments of the orchestra show only the violin, piccolo and harp go up to 4 Khz, and nothing goes higher. The highest sound of the human voice is approximately 2000 hz. These are facts that are available to anyone who wants to look them up.

When people cannot hear past 2500 Hz they recommend hearing aids (or when the overall hearing acuity is poor).
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As usual commysman is putting out more bad info.
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post #10 of 83 Old 08-02-2012, 07:36 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

One thing that is interesting is to actually find out what one can hear. A friend of mine was waxing lyrical over tweeter characteristics until he had an actual hearing test at an audiologist and found out that he doesn't hear anything to speak of above 4500 Hz...lol.

Adding to your above. He doesn't hear at the SPL he was tested at but if one increase the EQ at the point of their drop off by three to six dB, most will hear perfectly fine. As an old guy who had his hearing tested, I found I have to jack up the outer bands to get a "flat" response. Amazing what a few dB increase does for your hearing.

Quote:
It is pretty common for adult males to hear very little above 6 or 7 Khz.

Much of which is due to a survival instinct.

Guy to wife: "What!, I can't hear you honey. Give me ten and I'll be right there."

Guy to friend: "The garbage disposal is stuck.....give me another beer."

eek.giftongue.gifbiggrin.gif
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post #11 of 83 Old 08-02-2012, 07:44 AM
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That is a cute joke, but since the highest female voice is no higher than 2 khz, it does not make much sense in fact. We can all hear them, for better or for worse...lol.

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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Adding to your above. He doesn't hear at the SPL he was tested at but if one increase the EQ at the point of their drop off by three to six dB, most will hear perfectly fine. As an old guy who had his hearing tested, I found I have to jack up the outer bands to get a "flat" response. Amazing what a few dB increase does for your hearing.
Much of which is due to a survival instinct.
Guy to wife: "What!, I can't hear you honey. Give me ten and I'll be right there."
Guy to friend: "The garbage disposal is stuck.....give me another beer."
eek.giftongue.gifbiggrin.gif
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post #12 of 83 Old 08-02-2012, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

Bad information?? I have my facts right; I don't know what your problem is.
Talk to any audiologist if you don't believe me.
My audiologist (at Kaiser hospital) is the one that told me that men over 40 can seldom hear 10 Khz, and she has actually tested thousands of them.
My wife can only hear up to 13 Khz, and I can only hear up to 8 khz, but our audiologist says that that is much better than average for people over 60. It certainly has no effect on listening to music, since there is no significant musical content above 6 Khz anyway.
A chart of the instruments of the orchestra show only the violin, piccolo and harp go up to 4 Khz, and nothing goes higher. The highest sound of the human voice is approximately 2000 hz. These are facts that are available to anyone who wants to look them up.
When people cannot hear past 2500 Hz they recommend hearing aids (or when the overall hearing acuity is poor).

I've tested recently and can hear up to 18 kHz, but I am only turning 40 in a few weeks. This is freightening now that statistically speaking I will loose 8khz in a month! Just as well that I already wasted half the money on speakers that are spec'd up to 35 kHz given I can't hear 50%! But being told that I wasted 70% makes me really sad...

....anyway, to the OP: I've listened to the Monitor Audio Gold GX ribbon tweeter (I have the Silver RX series) and I can't say that it sounded so much better (or different for that matter) that *I* would spend the extra moolah...
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post #13 of 83 Old 08-02-2012, 07:58 AM
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Don't be sad; if you can hear 7 khz, you can hear 99.9% of everything there is to hear. Too bad about those brushed hi-hat cymbals, but you won't miss anything else.
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Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

Don't be sad; if you can hear 7 khz, you can hear 99.9% of everything there is to hear. Too bad about those brushed hi-hat cymbals, but you won't miss anything else.

That's where DAC's, headphone Amps, high-end recordings/headphones and an EQ come in. Now one can once again hear and enjoy the fully expanded sizzle of brushed cymbals as they enjoy the extended decay of lingering piano notes in their favorite jazz piece.

Mmmmmmmmmm!

Nothing that another fifteen hundred to $2k can't fix.

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post #15 of 83 Old 08-02-2012, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

Bad information?? I have my facts right; I don't know what your problem is.

Talk to any audiologist if you don't believe me.

My audiologist (at Kaiser hospital) is the one that told me that men over 40 can seldom hear 10 Khz, and she has actually tested thousands of them. Men under 30 do much better, of course.

My wife can only hear up to 13 Khz, and I can only hear up to 8 khz, but our audiologist says that that is much better than average for people over 60. It certainly has no effect on listening to music, since there is no significant musical content above 6 Khz anyway. Cymbals will produce frequencies around 10 Khz when brushed with wire brushes, but their normal output is much lower. Nothing else is that high.

A chart of the instruments of the orchestra show only the violin, piccolo and harp go up to 4 Khz, and nothing goes higher. The highest sound of the human voice is approximately 2000 hz. These are facts that are available to anyone who wants to look them up.

When people cannot hear past 2500 Hz they recommend hearing aids (or when the overall hearing acuity is poor).
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

As usual commysman is putting out more bad info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

Don't be sad; if you can hear 7 khz, you can hear 99.9% of everything there is to hear. Too bad about those brushed hi-hat cymbals, but you won't miss anything else.
I think you might be confusing the difference between fundamental frequencies and overtones and harmonics. Yes, the fundamental frequencies from many musical instruments are in the lower range, but I'd assume that the majority of folks here at AVS can appreciate the difference between audio systems that can fully reproduce ALL the components of a musical note. It's not only the sound of a wire brush stroking a cymbal that generates frequencies above 6kHz, ANY cymbal strike generates frequencies over 6kHz along with the lower frequency fundamentals.

How is it that we can distinguish the same musical note played on a variety of different instruments? The difference between the note played on a flute vs an oboe vs a saxophone, vs a trombone, vs a trumpet? They're all wind instruments, but the harmonics and overtones are different for each of them (I'm not saying that any person in particular may know exactly what instrument is playing, but they can distinguish that they are being played on different instruments). For that matter, some folks can distinguish the difference between a Stradivari and Guarneri violin, the same instrument made by the two different and most well known violin makers. Pianists and familiar listeners can also distinguish the difference between the sound of a Steinway Grand vs a Bosendorfer or Fazioli. The ability of the audio system to reproduce all the audible harmonics and overtones of a sound along with the fundamentals is a HUGE part of the quality of the system to me. There's a distinct difference to me between hearing a violin solo on a system that rolls off above 10kHz vs one that can play flat to 20khz.

The human hearing system is amazingly adaptable, which is why we can recognize voices even when they are played out of the tiny speakers on a cellphone or clock radio. We can even immediately recognize musical instruments played on these tiny speakers, because the human brain can recognize sounds from the fundamentals where the overtones and harmonics are missing, and also from the harmonics and overtones when the fundamentals are missing because the playback system cannot reproduce them properly.

Here's an interesting little interactive music chart.
http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/main_display.htm

It displays the frequency ranges that encompass the range of sounds produced by various instruments (including the male and female voices). There's also a little chart that displays the 'equal loudness contours' for average human hearing acuity. Our hearing is more sensitive to the mids (interestingly, our greatest sensitivity in the frequency range seems to be right around the frequency of a younger female or young child's scream that cuts through natural background ambient noise. Scientists pose that this might be an evolutionary bias, to trigger survival responses). Our brains are also incredibly adaptable, and surveys and testing has shown that people can actually 'fill in the gaps' so to speak, from progressive hearing loss. Tests conducted for hearing loss on orchestra members who are routinely subjected to pretty high SPL's have shown that a statistically significant percentage of them have higher than average levels of hearing loss for their respective age groups, especially in the ranges our ears are most sensitive to, but they have automatically adapted and compensated and aren't even aware that there are gaps in their hearing acuity. Their minds still hear the sounds they expect to hear, even when audio tests show that they don't hear them all that well anymore.

As long as an audio system can reproduce about 400Hz to 4kHz, (especially the 2kHz-4kHz range where our hearing sensitivity is most acute), we can recognize what we're hearing, but there's no question that I can hear a distinct difference between the quality of the sound coming out of a cheap clock radio from the 80's with very limited frequency reproduction from a 1/4" driver vs my sound system.

I can't speak for everyone else, but while I can still hear it, I prefer to hear everything produced by the instruments I'm listening to. Sure I can recognize the instruments being played on a clock radio, but when I'm listening to it for my enjoyment, I prefer to hear it on equipment that can reproduce the whole range as opposed to just between 400Hz to 4kHz.

Unfortunately, you're right, as we age, our hearing becomes increasingly deficient at the higher frequencies, and how bad this loss is varies from person to person based on genetics and lifestyle. I do know some folks over 60 who still have acute hearing up to 16-18kHz, as well as a few folks in their 20's who don't hear much over 12kHz (only one of whom did not routinely subject themselves to very high SPL's from concerts/clubs etc.). At 40, I can still hear 16kHz, (which I'm very fortunate and grateful for considering the abuse, both inadvertent and conscious, that my ears have been subjected to), These days, I try to take more precautions to preserve my hearing because I derive so much enjoyment from it. Hopefully, I'll be able to enjoy it and the pleasure that the enjoyment of music brings me, for many years to come.


Max
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post #16 of 83 Old 08-02-2012, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

Don't be sad; if you can hear 7 khz, you can hear 99.9% of everything there is to hear. Too bad about those brushed hi-hat cymbals, but you won't miss anything else.
Utter nonsense. The normal upper hearing range of the average middle aged male is between 12-14kHz.

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2003/ChrisDAmbrose.shtml

Either you or your audiologist doesn't know what they are talking about.

Dumb enough to spend lots of cash on this junk!
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post #17 of 83 Old 08-02-2012, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

Utter nonsense. The normal upper hearing range of the average middle aged male is between 12-14kHz.
.
I'm 62, I can hear well up to 12kHz, 14kHz if it's loud enough. That's after 47 years as a professional musician.

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post #18 of 83 Old 08-02-2012, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

I'm 62, I can hear well up to 12kHz, 14kHz if it's loud enough. That's after 47 years as a professional musician.

Well you do have giant green ears! tongue.gif
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post #19 of 83 Old 08-02-2012, 10:34 AM
 
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Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

I'm going to have to agree here. I can't hear above 9kHz for sure (tried one of those online sound tests biggrin.gif). Don't know how accurate those tests are.

Depends. How accurate (sensitive) PC audio system and headphones are which you're testing through?

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post #20 of 83 Old 08-02-2012, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

Utter nonsense. The normal upper hearing range of the average middle aged male is between 12-14kHz.
http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2003/ChrisDAmbrose.shtml
Either you or your audiologist doesn't know what they are talking about.

Quote:

Depends. How accurate (sensitive) is your PC audio system and headphones you're listening through?


I just tried this online test:

http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_frequencycheckhigh.php

I can hear 16kHz tones (JLab earbuds). biggrin.gif

This is on my Motorola Xoom tablet. Without earbuds, I can easily hear 15kHz. biggrin.gif

Just tried w/ my EVO 4G phone using JLab earbuds. I can hear 16kHz tones also.
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post #21 of 83 Old 08-02-2012, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

Utter nonsense. The normal upper hearing range of the average middle aged male is between 12-14kHz.
http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2003/ChrisDAmbrose.shtml
Either you or your audiologist doesn't know what they are talking about.
That link, written by students, is a simplified overview and makes no attempt to even delve into hearing loss. For example these links,
http://hearinghealthfoundation.org/85
https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://www.employmentincentives.com/state_incentives/documents/statistics_about_hearing_loss.doc&pli=1
indicate that hearing impairment cannot be considered as rare. There are members on AVS who have indicated they have tinnitus to varying degrees which causes impairment in their daily lives let alone in the enjoyment of music.

Commysman, IMO has oversimplified matters but to me he's not incorrect WRT stating that in general increasing age brings about diminished hearing. Further, he may also not be incorrect in stating that there's little musical content above 6 kHz. Consider that there's quite a bit more octaves below 6 kHz than above it and also consider that musical energy goes roughly the inverse of frequency. That doesn't mean there's no benefit in having a well behaved speaker flat to 18 kHz and possibly above. To see some of this, download a free copy of Audacity. Then rip some of your favorite songs and use the program to analyze the wavs.

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post #22 of 83 Old 08-02-2012, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

Utter nonsense. The normal upper hearing range of the average middle aged male is between 12-14kHz.
http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2003/ChrisDAmbrose.shtml
Either you or your audiologist doesn't know what they are talking about.
That link, written by students, is a simplified overview and makes no attempt to even delve into hearing loss. For example these links,
http://hearinghealthfoundation.org/85
https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://www.employmentincentives.com/state_incentives/documents/statistics_about_hearing_loss.doc&pli=1
indicate that hearing impairment cannot be considered as rare. There are members on AVS who have indicated they have tinnitus to varying degrees which causes impairment in their daily lives let alone in the enjoyment of music.

Commysman, IMO has oversimplified matters but to me he's not incorrect WRT stating that in general increasing age brings about diminished hearing. Further, he may also not be incorrect in stating that there's little musical content above 6 kHz. Consider that there's quite a bit more octaves below 6 kHz than above it and also consider that musical energy goes roughly the inverse of frequency. That doesn't mean there's no benefit in having a well behaved speaker flat to 18 kHz and possibly above. To see some of this, download a free copy of Audacity. Then rip some of your favorite songs and use the program to analyze the wavs.
Thanks for the link to Audacity! Interesting program. Cursory analysis of the uncompressed WAV of 'From Gagarin's Point Of View' by the Esbjorn Svensson Trio, shows that there is content even over 20kHz.


Max
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post #23 of 83 Old 08-02-2012, 12:33 PM
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Now that we know commsysman is partially deaf let's get back to the original topic

Tweeters have advanced greatly over the last few years, but it doesn't have anything to do with the dome material, that's mostly marketing. The motor designs have greatly advanced, allowing very low crossover points with low distortion, that's where the difference is.
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post #24 of 83 Old 08-02-2012, 12:56 PM
 
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I just tried this online test:

By the time I got to a 100Hz, I thought I was either going blow up or launch, could have gone either which way.

eek.gif

Using headphones, I started hearing at 20Hz but the headphone gain was turned up. With the gain down, I wasn't really aware until 30Hz. Reminded me of 1950's SiFi flicks.

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post #25 of 83 Old 08-02-2012, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by djbluemax1 View Post

Thanks for the link to Audacity! Interesting program. Cursory analysis of the uncompressed WAV of 'From Gagarin's Point Of View' by the Esbjorn Svensson Trio, shows that there is content even over 20kHz.
Max
It's a fun program. One thing to consider is what the levels of the signals are because while present, they might not be of sufficient amplitude to solicit a response. Further, the intensity of high frequency signals drops rapidly with distance with the drops increasing with frequency. There's an equation for this somewhere! I happen to be of the opinion that speaker design should aim for good linear response to 18K and above.

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post #26 of 83 Old 08-02-2012, 01:14 PM
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Hey, I just tried the test and I don't think my computer speakers go above 13khz as I heard the same clack sound(like clipping badly) from 14khz and up. I will have to try this on the system at home since the speakers can play to 20khz.
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post #27 of 83 Old 08-02-2012, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

It's a fun program. One thing to consider is what the levels of the signals are because while present, they might not be of sufficient amplitude to solicit a response. Further, the intensity of high frequency signals drops rapidly with distance with the drops increasing with frequency. There's an equation for this somewhere! I happen to be of the opinion that speaker design should aim for good linear response to 18K and above.

Thanks Chu - nice program and an easy way to show how badly brick walled a lot of rock music is. Oh, the clipping. eek.gif
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post #28 of 83 Old 08-02-2012, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

I just tried this online test:
http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_frequencycheckhigh.php
I can hear 16kHz tones (JLab earbuds). biggrin.gif
This is on my Motorola Xoom tablet. Without earbuds, I can easily hear 15kHz. biggrin.gif
Just tried w/ my EVO 4G phone using JLab earbuds. I can hear 16kHz tones also.

Thanks for sharing that. I am 47, have tinnitus and some hearing loss at 8k hz, and I can hear the 14k hz test tones no problem.

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post #29 of 83 Old 08-02-2012, 01:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Did I accidentally start something? o_O

haha anyway I was totally unaware most music doesn't have frequencies above 6khz. I Learn something new everyday =)
But the ill-logical question underlies in my mind of "what is better" between the Dynaudio Silks VS the Focal Beryllium.

So lets do this. Ill ask 2 Questions, everyone give me 2 answers. They should be one word answers.

(1) What do you think is better, Dynaudio Silks OR Focal Beryllium?
(2) What do you PREFER, Dynaudio Silks OR Focal Beryllium?

Lets see what we come up with. Im Very curios. Thanks guys for your participation. =)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

I just tried this online test:
http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_frequencycheckhigh.php
I can hear 16kHz tones (JLab earbuds). biggrin.gif
This is on my Motorola Xoom tablet. Without earbuds, I can easily hear 15kHz. biggrin.gif
Just tried w/ my EVO 4G phone using JLab earbuds. I can hear 16kHz tones also.

FWIW, I'm using a Xonar, Essence, STX sound card and Sennheiser HD650's on custom headphone cables for playback listening. I get up to 13kHz-14kHz tones with minor fluctuations in the 10Hz - 8kHz tones with an 8KHz tone hole. The wife get's up to a definite 14kHz tone.

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