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post #1 of 24 Old 08-03-2012, 01:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello everyone , I have asked this question before in the receivers thread for my specific receiver but I wanted to ask it here also.

I have a Marantz SR-6006 which says that it is 110 watts per channel with 2 channels driven. Test show that it is 127 when just 2 channels driven at 8ohm 78 5 channels driven and 71 all 7 channels driven.

Now when i was running my old set-up :
2 Mirage OMD-15 (0-250 watts 87db 6ohm)
Mirage OMD-C1 (0-175 watts 87db 6ohm)
4 Mirage OMD-5 (0-175 watts 87db 6ohm)

I ran it in multichannel stereo mode and it sounded terrible in my opinion , very hollow and too much highs even with my Subwoofers. I was told that the receiver had more than enough power to handle the speakers but I went ahead and got a 3 channel amp anyway to run the fronts and center which to me made a big difference. Bass picked up and sound from the front stage was much fuller and more even toned enough to make listening to multichannel stereo bearable but only on certain sources.

Now I have changed my surrounds to 4 Mirage OS3-FS since I was able to grab them for $900. Their specs are 0-175 watts, 93db at 8ohm . With the receiver only running 4 channels now it should be doing between 85-90 watts per channel I'm guessing , should that be enough power to take full advantage of the speakers or will I hear a difference going to an amp that can put out 150-200watts per channel? For right now I am going easy on the new speakers and only pushing them at -23db in multichannel stereo mode while they get broken in so I haven't noticed any clipping yet but figured I would see what you guys think.
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post #2 of 24 Old 08-03-2012, 04:16 PM
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The fundamental problem with 99% of HT receivers is that the money all goes into the big long list of gee-whiz features, rather than the amplifiers or power supply, which get lowest priority in the design process.

The result is that you get about $20 worth of the cheapest possible parts to build each amplifier channel, and a power supply that is barely able to keep up with the current demand on peaks when the volume is turned up. It's not a pretty picture, from an engineering standpoint, and sometimes it don't sound all that good (as you have already noticed...lol).

A dedicated amplifier, on the other hand, has nearly 100% of the engineering time and money put into providing the best quality amplifier circuits and a very large power supply with large current reserves to prevent distortion when the amp is pushed hard. Your added amplifier naturally sounds better. It also takes a lot of load off of the receiver, so the reciver is not working as hard.

You should have your amplifier problem pretty much under control now. Now your problem is your speakers.

I hate to say this, but if I was going to purchase a set of speakers tomorrow, Mirage would come in dead last on my personal shopping list, in terms of best sound quality for the dollar.

If I was buying, I would concentrate on KEF, PSB, Monitor Audio, Epos, and other brands that have been praised consistently for their well-engineered good-sounding products over the years. Mirage quality went in the toilet at least 10 years ago, and the OMD-15 is a terrible-sounding speaker IMO.

If you want some really good sound, my advice would be to sell all of your Mirage speakers and audition something that sounds a lot better. Let your ears do the walking.
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post #3 of 24 Old 08-03-2012, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

If I was buying, I would concentrate on KEF, PSB, Monitor Audio, Epos, and other brands that have been praised consistently for their well-engineered good-sounding products over the years. Mirage quality went in the toilet at least 10 years ago, and the OMD-15 is a terrible-sounding speaker IMO.
If you want some really good sound, my advice would be to sell all of your Mirage speakers and audition something that sounds a lot better. Let your ears do the walking.

How about HSU Research, Aperion Audio, Ascend Acoustics, Arx, Emotiva, SVS, all have received rave reviews, all have outstanding top notch customer service, all have a huge following of satisfied customers, all are extremely well built and well engineered.

So pretty much Commsysman you only recommend products that The Audio Advisor sells right? I mean every brand you list is sold through The Audio Advisor. KEF, PSB, Monitor Audio, and Epos are all sold through Audio Advisor and those are the only brands you'll recommend rolleyes.gif

Sounds like a company man to me. Instead of constantly dismissing outstanding products cause they don't fit your critieria of being sold through The Audio Advisor how about you have a listen to a few of those brands and enjoy instead of pretending nothing else exists out side of The Audio Advisor.


Oh and by the way, KEF, PSB, MA and Epos make great stuff but there not the only choices out there.
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post #4 of 24 Old 08-04-2012, 07:53 AM
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You need to get your facts straight. For one thing, KEF is not sold by the company you mention so you are dead wrong about that, among other things. For another thing, I do not give a damn about the company you mention and I have not even mentioned it for at least 6 months. I do mention KEF Direct and Amazon occasionally as product sources; do you have a problem with them too?

All of those speakers are very popular brands and are sold by hundreds of retailers and I could care less who people choose to buy them from. You seem to have some sort of an unreasonable obsession about that company; I certainly do not. They are 2000 miles away from me and are completely irrelevant to me. Your allegations are completely unreasonable and seem to be based only on some sort of persisting delusion. They don't make any sense to me.

Those I cited are only a few brands that I happen to have a lot of experience with; of course there are many others that make good speakers. I just mentioned a few that I personally know something about. Why would I recommend others that I do not know much about? That makes no sense at all. If you have a problem with that, it is your personal problem and you will have to deal with it all by yourself.

The very best speakers I know of are from Vandersteen and Gallo Acoustics (both of which I own), but due to their higher prices I only mention them when a person seems to be interested in something that expensive.



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Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post

How about HSU Research, Aperion Audio, Ascend Acoustics, Arx, Emotiva, SVS, all have received rave reviews, all have outstanding top notch customer service, all have a huge following of satisfied customers, all are extremely well built and well engineered.
So pretty much Commsysman you only recommend products that XXXXXXXXX sells right? I mean every brand you list is sold through The XXXXXX company. KEF, PSB, Monitor Audio, and Epos are all sold through XXXXXXXX and those are the only brands you'll recommend.
Sounds like a company man to me. Instead of constantly dismissing outstanding products cause they don't fit your critieria of being sold through XXXXXXXX how about you have a listen to a few of those brands and enjoy instead of pretending nothing else exists out side of XXXXXXXX.
Oh and by the way, KEF, PSB, MA and Epos make great stuff but there not the only choices out there.
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post #5 of 24 Old 08-04-2012, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

The fundamental problem with 99% of HT receivers is that the money all goes into the big long list of gee-whiz features, rather than the amplifiers or power supply, which get lowest priority in the design process.

The result is that you get about $20 worth of the cheapest possible parts to build each amplifier channel, and a power supply that is barely able to keep up with the current demand on peaks when the volume is turned up. It's not a pretty picture, from an engineering standpoint, and sometimes it don't sound all that good (as you have already noticed...lol).

A dedicated amplifier, on the other hand, has nearly 100% of the engineering time and money put into providing the best quality amplifier circuits and a very large power supply with large current reserves to prevent distortion when the amp is pushed hard. Your added amplifier naturally sounds better. It also takes a lot of load off of the receiver, so the reciver is not working as hard.

You should have your amplifier problem pretty much under control now. Now your problem is your speakers.

I hate to say this, but if I was going to purchase a set of speakers tomorrow, Mirage would come in dead last on my personal shopping list, in terms of best sound quality for the dollar.

If I was buying, I would concentrate on KEF, PSB, Monitor Audio, Epos, and other brands that have been praised consistently for their well-engineered good-sounding products over the years. Mirage quality went in the toilet at least 10 years ago, and the OMD-15 is a terrible-sounding speaker IMO.

If you want some really good sound, my advice would be to sell all of your Mirage speakers and audition something that sounds a lot better. Let your ears do the walking.


Hmmmm. The op asked about what to power his speakers with, and laid out some details, rather than asking for a recommended speaker brand and of his speakers were any good.

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post #6 of 24 Old 08-04-2012, 08:42 AM
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It appeared to me that his basic problem, which he expressed pretty clearly, was that his system was not sounding good to him, and he asked "what do you guys think".

I expressed my opinion on the reasons why he might not be happy with what he is hearing. It seemed relevant at the time. It's only a personal opinion, and he is free to ignore it.


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Hmmmm. The op asked about what to power his speakers with, and laid out some details, rather than asking for a recommended speaker brand and of his speakers were any good.
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post #7 of 24 Old 08-04-2012, 08:54 AM
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You should be fine. Surround speakers do not take much juice to drive. Marantz receivers are good quality amps. If you have not already, spend some time with your receiver and get to know all the features and settings. The days of just plugging something in and playing are over, and just a few tweaks and running some EQ can make a big difference.
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post #8 of 24 Old 08-04-2012, 09:11 AM
 
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Originally Posted by pukemon View Post

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What's with the advertisement?
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post #9 of 24 Old 08-04-2012, 09:28 AM
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What's with the advertisement?

its not an advertisement he just responded from his phone is all...wink.gif

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its not an advertisement he just responded from his phone is all...wink.gif

Being old and jaded, who posts their phone and software ID unless an advertisement? To me, being non-audio related, posting in this fashion comes across as an effort in obtaining free advertising; spam.

As an example of how posting in that fashion comes across: Hi, I'm posting from my Microsoft ergonomic keyboard, using Windows 7, visualizing on my Samsung SyncMaster P2370HD monitor with Firefox on the screen using an Asus.............."

If management is comfortable with this behavior, I'm good and will look the other way.

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post #11 of 24 Old 08-04-2012, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by josh6113 View Post

its not an advertisement he just responded from his phone is all...wink.gif

Being old and jaded, who posts their phone and software ID unless an advertisement? To me, being non-audio related, posting in this fashion comes across as an effort in obtaining free advertising; spam.

As an example of how posting in that fashion comes across: Hi, I'm posting from my Microsoft ergonomic keyboard, using Windows 7, visualizing on my Samsung SyncMaster P2370HD monitor, using an Asus.............."

If management is comfortable with this behavior, I'm good and will look the other way.

What a ding dong. It is a preloaded signature from an app and since I recently flashed jellybean it went back to default. Get with the the times. The guy up above is advertising speakers when op is asking about sufficient receiver power.

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Originally Posted by pukemon View Post

What a ding dong. It is a preloaded signature from an app and since I recently flashed jellybean it went back to default. Get with the the times. The guy up above is advertising speakers when op is asking about sufficient receiver power.
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Now you're making a personal attack, also against the forum rules of no personal attacks. Again, if management is okay with this behavior then it's none of my business and in the meantime, nobody here is a ding-dong as it sounds like you want to spam the board with your non-speaker related advertising.
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post #13 of 24 Old 08-04-2012, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Now you're making a personal attack, also against the forum rules of no personal attacks. Again, if management is okay with this behavior then it's none of my business and in the meantime, nobody here is a ding-dong as it sounds like you want to spam the board with your non-speaker related advertising.

Enough from both of you. As the other member stated when posting responses from some smart phones, the phone adds a "tagline" if you will to the response....ie: Sent by Iphone etc. It's not an ad...so no it's not against forum rules.

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post #14 of 24 Old 08-04-2012, 12:31 PM
 
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Enough from both of you. As the other member stated when posting responses from some smart phones, the phone adds a "tagline" if you will to the response....ie: Sent by Iphone etc. It's not an ad...so no it's not against forum rules.

I reported the comment and forum rules do not allow for personal attacks and if it's added by the iphone company, of course it's an advertisement. As I posted, if you're good with this type of spam, it's none of my business. Just being thoughtful towards forum rules.

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post #15 of 24 Old 08-04-2012, 01:07 PM
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I reported the comment and forum rules do not allow for personal attacks and if it's added by the iphone, of course it's an advertisement. As I posted, if you're good with this type of spam, it's none of my business. Just being thoughtful towards forum rules.
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beeman it isn't an advert as I stated...why are you taking this so personal?...just relax and continue the speaker jab...smile.gif...no laws were broken...smile.gif...these sigs from phones useing certain apps has been around for a looong time....relax my friend...smile.gif

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post #16 of 24 Old 08-04-2012, 01:19 PM
 
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beeman it isn't an advert as I stated...why are you taking this so personal?...just relax and continue the speaker jab...smile.gif...no laws were broken...smile.gif...these sigs from phones useing certain apps has been around for a looong time....relax my friend...smile.gif

Thanks for the heads-up as it comes across as the manufacture intended, advertisement; come buy with us. And yes, it does tick me off that every manufacture thinks they have a right to stick their advertisements into every aspect of our lives. I see forums of this type as sacrosanct. Us old guys are like that; old school vs new school.

As I posted, if this is the expected norm, I'll carry on. cool.gif
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post #17 of 24 Old 08-04-2012, 02:48 PM
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no harm done...and yes I agree with your statement about companies getting involved where they don't belong...smile.gif

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no harm done...and yes I agree with your statement about companies getting involved where they don't belong...smile.gif

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post #19 of 24 Old 08-04-2012, 05:37 PM - Thread Starter
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I just wanted to chime on, thanks for the comments about the power, I appreciate it. One thing though is I didn't have a problem with the speakers sound, when run in 2 channel the sound was fine. It wasn't until the receiver spit the signal into 7 channels that the sound was bad which I chalk up to either bad decoding or lack of power. If I only ran 2 channels for everything I think it would have been fine but I'm not a 2 channel only kind of guy. Even with the amp now I won't listen to 7 channel stereo with Internet radio because it sounds so watered down and terrible, I have to move it to 2 channel to get a fuller sound which I think perhaps is more of a receiver issue for not being able to produce the same level of sound throughout all 7 channels. It is clear that the drop in power being sent is causing the lack of a fuller sound or that the receiver is not able to mirror the signal to the respective speakers when all channels are driven.

I'm happy with my speakers because for my budget they offered more than what i have been able to hear at Bestbuy or Hhgreg and I have had mirage since 2007 and have grown accustomed to the sound of omnipolar.I only spent $2800 for 2 OMD-15, 4 OMD-5, 2 OMD-C1, and 4 OS3-FS , the price was good in my opinion .I have never heard PSB or KEF or any other of those listed above but I do know that I don't care for brands like def tech, Polk , and Klipsch which i have been able to hear. I know that there are better things out there and when I get the chance and have 5k+ to put together another 5.1 and 7.1 setup I may travel to another state to be able to listen to the elite brands. Just don't tell my wife that I plan in buying speakers again for another 10 years because she didn't talk to me for a week when I bought these.
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post #20 of 24 Old 08-04-2012, 05:46 PM
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since I read your post and im a deftech owner...smile.gif..lol...what about deftech do you not like?...and have you heard there new stuff?...sry but you left yourself open for this question...smile.gif

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post #21 of 24 Old 08-04-2012, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Being old and jaded, who posts their phone and software ID unless an advertisement? To me, being non-audio related, posting in this fashion comes across as an effort in obtaining free advertising; spam.

Blame AVS. Since AVS didn't upgrade their mobile app when they did the site upgrade, they now recommend that people use Tapatalk (which I refuse to buy).

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post #22 of 24 Old 08-04-2012, 06:10 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't mind the question, everyone has their own preferences. I don't know which set I heard in bestbuy 2 years ago but the Magnolia guy was trying to sell them to someone and I was listening to the sound and I felt they were very high pitched and didn't sound natural, it sounded very mechanical if that makes sense. They were sats that much I know and I just felt that my Nanos were better sounding and didn't seem as stressed as those that he was selling.

The only other time I heard some floorstandings was at a house where I was selling my Nanos to a guy from Craigslist and we got to talking about different speakers and sounds etc and he took me to his rec room and showed me some towers he had for a few years and absolutely loved. They didn't sound bad but they were very directional it seemed to me. If I wasn't between them or more than 7 or 8 feet to the side of them they seemed to lose a bit of quality to me . When he put a movie in it was also easy to tell which speaker the sound was coming out of which I didn't like because i didn't get a sense of the speakers not being there. The sound from where the center channel would have been did not seem to image that of being centered either. I'm by no means trashing any other brand or any choice of speakers but they just were not for me.

I know people like Martin Logan but I also bought a pair off newegg and sold them 2 weeks later because the sound was so focused that the bass and fullness disappeared as soon as you moved out of their direct path so there was no option for side listening .
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post #23 of 24 Old 08-04-2012, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sumbadhatharry View Post

I don't mind the question, everyone has their own preferences. I don't know which set I heard in bestbuy 2 years ago but the Magnolia guy was trying to sell them to someone and I was listening to the sound and I felt they were very high pitched and didn't sound natural, it sounded very mechanical if that makes sense. They were sats that much I know and I just felt that my Nanos were better sounding and didn't seem as stressed as those that he was selling.
The only other time I heard some floorstandings was at a house where I was selling my Nanos to a guy from Craigslist and we got to talking about different speakers and sounds etc and he took me to his rec room and showed me some towers he had for a few years and absolutely loved. They didn't sound bad but they were very directional it seemed to me. If I wasn't between them or more than 7 or 8 feet to the side of them they seemed to lose a bit of quality to me . When he put a movie in it was also easy to tell which speaker the sound was coming out of which I didn't like because i didn't get a sense of the speakers not being there. The sound from where the center channel would have been did not seem to image that of being centered either. I'm by no means trashing any other brand or any choice of speakers but they just were not for me.
I know people like Martin Logan but I also bought a pair off newegg and sold them 2 weeks later because the sound was so focused that the bass and fullness disappeared as soon as you moved out of their direct path so there was no option for side listening .

cool....I was just being goofy but nice to hear your thoughts on the matter...smile.gif....the deftech's at best buy or any speaker there is hardly ever setup correctly so what you heard I can understand...smile.gif....deftech's new line is pretty amazing....here is a fun little demo I did....it's a youtube vid so sound is crappy but I did it just for kicks...smile.gif

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KkNHKOZTbI&feature=plcp


my deftech's are efficient but stupid me when I got my reciever I didn't get one with pre outs for an amp later....so now I am looking at a new reciever with pre outs and getting an XPA-5 eventually...smile.gif

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Blame AVS. Since AVS didn't upgrade their mobile app when they did the site upgrade, they now recommend that people use Tapatalk (which I refuse to buy).

We're back to my comment that if it's okay with management, then it's none of my business. Sorry to read you have to buy another mobile app so as to make somebody else happy. The nice thing about being an old guy, other than an occasional whiskey and cigar, we don't need anything else. I only turn the clam shell cell phone on these days to put an order in for something I found online. No stores that don't have what I want, no traffic, no gas, no crowds, no clerks that don't have a thoughtful clue; it's great.

The whole thing struck me as funny. Guess that's what happens when you tune in, retire and dropout. smile.gif All's well that ends well.

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