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index2020X's Avatar index2020X 08:48 PM 08-04-2012
Hello,

I am looking to buy a pair of Bowers & Wilkins CM5 or CM1 in New York City (or nearabouts). I see that they are available at Best Buy and a couple of other specialty retails stores. Didn't see them anywhere online and there don't seem to be other buying options in NY. Looking for any advice on where I might be able to get the CM5 at a good price... I don't think Best Buy negotiates prices...

Thanks,

Breako's Avatar Breako 01:07 AM 08-05-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by index2020X View Post

Hello,
I am looking to buy a pair of Bowers & Wilkins CM5 or CM1 in New York City (or nearabouts). I see that they are available at Best Buy and a couple of other specialty retails stores. Didn't see them anywhere online and there don't seem to be other buying options in NY. Looking for any advice on where I might be able to get the CM5 at a good price... I don't think Best Buy negotiates prices...
Thanks,

Do a dealer search on their website, there are lots of B&w dealers in or near NYC. Most dealers will negotiate price if you are serious and prepared to buy on site. I have never paid full retail for any make of speaker. B&w can be negotiated up to 20 percent off msrp at some locations. But be prepared to buy. Just trying to get aquote so you can then play that against another dealer usually does not work, nor should it
AcuDefTechGuy 08:55 AM 08-05-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by index2020X View Post

Hello,
I am looking to buy a pair of Bowers & Wilkins CM5 or CM1 in New York City (or nearabouts). I see that they are available at Best Buy and a couple of other specialty retails stores. Didn't see them anywhere online and there don't seem to be other buying options in NY. Looking for any advice on where I might be able to get the CM5 at a good price... I don't think Best Buy negotiates prices...
Thanks,

Definitely try to negotiate w/ local dealers for 20% off first.

If failed, talk to Elegant Audio Video. See what their best price is.

Then buy B&W from Best Buy. Open them. Listen. Put them back in box. Take back to Best Buy. Say online prices are much better. They will price match online to prevent a loss because open box items are a big loss.

But I agree w/ Breako. Local dealers would give up to 20% off if you have the cash on hand and ready to buy immediately.
cel4145's Avatar cel4145 09:27 AM 08-05-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

Then buy B&W from Best Buy. Open them. Listen. Put them back in box. Take back to Best Buy. Say online prices are much better. They will price match online to prevent a loss because open box items are a big loss.

B&Ws aren't generally sold online, are they?
postrokfan's Avatar postrokfan 10:48 AM 08-05-2012
You might check Audiogon as well. There are often B&W CM5s and CM1s available in excellent condition for $1000-$1200 (CM5) and $600-700 (CM1) respectively.
AcuDefTechGuy 12:43 PM 08-05-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

B&Ws aren't generally sold online, are they?

They are not suppose to. But if you don't have a local dealer, they will make an exception. Same with any brand.

All dealers have a choice. Compete with online businesses who are willing to deal or lose the sell and go out of business.

That is the name of the game. If you cannot compete online, you've already loss. The economy isn't looking too bright anytime soon.
AcuDefTechGuy 12:45 PM 08-05-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by postrokfan View Post

You might check Audiogon as well. There are often B&W CM5s and CM1s available in excellent condition for $1000-$1200 (CM5) and $600-700 (CM1) respectively.

That is a great idea. Audiogon and eBay. Some dealers actually sell on Audiogon and eBay. I always pay via PayPal or credit card for added protection.
index2020X's Avatar index2020X 02:29 PM 08-05-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breako View Post

Do a dealer search on their website, there are lots of B&w dealers in or near NYC. Most dealers will negotiate price if you are serious and prepared to buy on site. I have never paid full retail for any make of speaker. B&w can be negotiated up to 20 percent off msrp at some locations. But be prepared to buy. Just trying to get aquote so you can then play that against another dealer usually does not work, nor should it

Thanks to Breako and others for your responses.

I'll follow up on all the suggestions.

In the New York area, I found two retailers via the B&W website - Innovative Audio and Lyric Hi-Fi - that I visited. Sales folks there gave me the vibes that selling a $1,500 speaker system is below their dignity smile.gif Heard them say thinks like ... "we mostly do full HT systems for $50,000+". A rather snooty lot. smile.gif Not sure these guys would entertain any price negotiation... not even sure they want to sell CM5s alone at full price Apparently the recession didn't hit them smile.gif I also checked out Best-Buy Magnolia (sales guy was very nice and demo'd the CM5s very nicely) but obviously no flex on price.

Would love to get any dealer recommendations... dealers people know... and would be interested in my business!

Many thanks,
Kal Rubinson's Avatar Kal Rubinson 03:34 PM 08-05-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by index2020X View Post

1.  In the New York area, I found two retailers via the B&W website - Innovative Audio and Lyric Hi-Fi - that I visited.
2.  Sales folks there gave me the vibes that selling a $1,500 speaker system is below their dignity smile.gif Heard them say thinks like ... "we mostly do full HT systems for $50,000+". A rather snooty lot. smile.gif Not sure these guys would entertain any price negotiation... not even sure they want to sell CM5s alone at full price Apparently the recession didn't hit them smile.gif I also checked out Best-Buy Magnolia (sales guy was very nice and demo'd the CM5s very nicely) but obviously no flex on price.
 
1.  Add Park Avenue Audio and Stereo Exchange to the list.
2.  Vibes?  I don't know what you heard but how can you be sure if you do not ask?  If you are ready to buy (and have figured out a reasonable price), ask.  What have you got to lose, especially if you already think you don't like these guys.

Ears to you's Avatar Ears to you 08:35 PM 08-05-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by index2020X View Post

Hello,
I am looking to buy a pair of Bowers & Wilkins CM5 or CM1 in New York City (or nearabouts). I see that they are available at Best Buy and a couple of other specialty retails stores. Didn't see them anywhere online and there don't seem to be other buying options in NY. Looking for any advice on where I might be able to get the CM5 at a good price... I don't think Best Buy negotiates prices...
Thanks,

Hi index,

I have CM5s for my front main speakers, and I bought them off of Craigslist, although they were and still are relatively difficult to find versus other models. I have also dealt with Matthew Yates at Stereo Exchange and Scott Trusty at Lyric in White Plains. Matthew was particularly patient, knowledgeable, and not at all elitist about what I was looking for versus what else they were selling when I was looking to upgrade B&W 601s a few years ago. After I found a pair of CM5s on Craigslist about a year ago, I then bought a B&W CMC from Scott at Lyric, and he gave me a very good discounted price, as well as useful, practical advice about some possible system upgrades for the future that were manageable with my meager budget. If you can or want to go outside of NY to New Jersey, I have also dealt with Evan at Talk of the Town on Allendale, NJ, and he was also great to deal with. I hope that this feedback can be of some help to you, and good luck with your B&W system!
cel4145's Avatar cel4145 12:36 AM 08-06-2012
How about an alternative? If the B&W dealers in NYC are being too bratty to you, try to give some Focal Chorus speakers a listen. There have been quite a few people on this forum who started off wanting B&Ws, but ended up going with Focals after hearing them.
Kal Rubinson's Avatar Kal Rubinson 02:24 PM 08-06-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

How about an alternative? If the B&W dealers in NYC are being too bratty to you, try to give some Focal Chorus speakers a listen. There have been quite a few people on this forum who started off wanting B&Ws, but ended up going with Focals after hearing them.

It's not B&W, it's the OPs concerns about NYC dealers.  As for Focal, they are represented by many of the same dealers.


cel4145's Avatar cel4145 05:44 PM 08-06-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

It's not B&W, it's the OPs concerns about NYC dealers.  As for Focal, they are represented by many of the same dealers.

Right. The dealers he has been to that carry B&W. Perhaps a different dealer--such as one that carries Focals--might treat him differently. Maybe not. But if it were me in this situation, I might be ready to look for alternatives.
AcuDefTechGuy 05:48 PM 08-06-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Right. The dealers he has been to that carry B&W. Perhaps a different dealer--such as one that carries Focals--might treat him differently. Maybe not. But if it were me in this situation, I might be ready to look for alternatives.

Not if he were set on the B&W.

Like I was set on the 802D2. biggrin.gif
Kal Rubinson's Avatar Kal Rubinson 06:40 PM 08-06-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post


Right. The dealers he has been to that carry B&W. Perhaps a different dealer--such as one that carries Focals--might treat him differently. Maybe not. But if it were me in this situation, I might be ready to look for alternatives.

I fail to see what his "situation" is.  He seems to anticipate dismissal and disappointment without attempting any engagement.  Reminds me of the old "Keep your damn lawnmower!" story.


cel4145's Avatar cel4145 07:10 PM 08-06-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

I fail to see what his "situation" is.

I got the impression that he was made to feel like the dealers weren't that interested in having him as a customer. Sometimes I'll walk away in that "situation," too, even if I am very interested in the product and know what I want. Comes from having been involved in sales at one point in my life.
Breako's Avatar Breako 08:14 PM 08-06-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post


That really is what you need to eo. Be prepared to buy and make an offer. Worst thing that can heppen is hey say no, and you can buy or walk. Good luck.
Kal Rubinson's Avatar Kal Rubinson 08:36 PM 08-06-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post


I got the impression that he was made to feel like the dealers weren't that interested in having him as a customer. Sometimes I'll walk away in that "situation," too, even if I am very interested in the product and know what I want. Comes from having been involved in sales at one point in my life.

I understand but, if this is so, it is possible that their attitude resulted from reading his ambivalent body language.  He has nothing to lose by opening his mouth and being explicit about his interest.


Purpose's Avatar Purpose 09:34 PM 08-06-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

I understand but, if this is so, it is possible that their attitude resulted from reading his ambivalent body language.  He has nothing to lose by opening his mouth and being explicit about his interest.

Hmmm, "ambivalent body language"? I am sorry, but I have heard similar rationales employed far too often to justify all types of problematic behavior in retail establishments throughout the city. I have a hard time accepting that such behavior is legitimate, unless the customer is really behaving in a truly abhorrent fashion. I dont know what happened to this guy, but, given my own experiences I sadly cant dismiss his account out of hand.

That said, I auditioned the CM8 and CM9 at innovative audio and had a good experience. They were fairly attentive. Had I decided to go with those instead of the studio 60s I purchased, I would have bought them there. I am sorry you had that experience.
index2020X's Avatar index2020X 09:45 PM 08-06-2012
On a serious note - thanks for all the suggestions and names of places I should check out.

On a less serious note - I am amused that everyone naturally assumes / goes with the assumption that the OP is male. Women don't buy high-end speakers?
Purpose's Avatar Purpose 09:53 PM 08-06-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by index2020X View Post

On a serious note - thanks for all the suggestions and names of places I should check out.
On a less serious note - I am amused that everyone naturally assumes / goes with the assumption that the OP is male. Women don't buy high-end speakers?

Of course they do. However, I only know but some many women that would revel in using the phrase "WAF" as much as it is used here or commiserating about their inability to buy speakers the size of their SUV because of their wife. biggrin.gif
Kal Rubinson's Avatar Kal Rubinson 10:53 AM 08-07-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purpose View Post


Hmmm, "ambivalent body language"? I am sorry, but I have heard similar rationales employed far too often to justify all types of problematic behavior in retail establishments throughout the city. I have a hard time accepting that such behavior is legitimate, unless the customer is really behaving in a truly abhorrent fashion. I dont know what happened to this guy, but, given my own experiences I sadly cant dismiss his account out of hand.
That said, I auditioned the CM8 and CM9 at innovative audio and had a good experience. They were fairly attentive. Had I decided to go with those instead of the studio 60s I purchased, I would have bought them there. I am sorry you had that experience.

First, you are misreading my statements.  I have not had such experiences nor have I said that they are justified in any way.

Second, his account seems to be about the "vibes" at these places but that goes both ways.  Until he actually engages in a discussion, none of it is real.

Third, in agreement with your experience, I have found that if you express a serious interest, you will be taken seriously.


Purpose's Avatar Purpose 11:47 AM 08-07-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

First, you are misreading my statements.  I have not had such experiences nor have I said that they are justified in any way.
Second, his account seems to be about the "vibes" at these places but that goes both ways.  Until he actually engages in a discussion, none of it is real.
Third, in agreement with your experience, I have found that if you express a serious interest, you will be taken seriously.

hmmm
I dont recall asserting that you you had any such experiences. I stated that my thoughts were based on my own experiences. That said, I am glad that you have not had to deal with that type of treatment, and am also glad that you agree that such behavior would not be justifiable.

Here is where we diverge (and I think this was the same point of departure originally). "Until he actually engages in a discussion, none of it is real." I dont agree with that statement. It has been shown time and time again that even the nonverbal behavior of shop owners can make some customers feel much more welcome than others. In other words, it can be very real. Now, as I said in my previous statement, I dont know exactly what happened to this guy, so I cannot make a judgment at this point as to fault (either customer or shop). However, given my own experience, I am also not willing to dismiss his account out of hand.

Suffice it to say though that I have been that NYC customer who is looking to make a serious purchase and who is ignored or not given the same respect as other customers. I can tell you first hand that it is unfortunately real. And, it certainly results in a loss of business when it happens to me.
cel4145's Avatar cel4145 12:06 PM 08-07-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

I understand but, if this is so, it is possible that their attitude resulted from reading his ambivalent body language.  He has nothing to lose by opening his mouth and being explicit about his interest.

I've been in situations where that is not the case, and the salesman still have reacted as described. Funny thing. I'm 6' 7" in height, and I was in a big and tall store for about ten minutes looking around in Manhattan just a week ago. Obviously a definite potential customer at my height; typically, I get assaulted by sales people in a big and tall store. But not in Manhattan. No one bothered to ask if they could help me, even though I was the only customer in the store and there were several sales people around. Probably because I wasn't wearing a fancy suit (we had just come back from Coney Island) and I was browsing different sales racks. I didn't "look" like I might spend several hundred dollars. Obviously, they weren't hungry enough to see if they could get my business. So I left.

I definitely get the "vibe" that the OP describes.
Ears to you's Avatar Ears to you 12:58 PM 08-07-2012
I think that some of the elitist attitude is regional, and has increased over the years. I live 1/2 hours north of New York City in Westchester County, and when we had several high end stores in our area years ago, the "vibe" was more friendly and deferential up here. Even when comparing Lyric's stores in NYC and White Plains, there was a noticeable difference in how I had been treated.

Alternately, my family now lives in Seattle, and when I make it a point of checking out Hawthorne Stereo and Definitive Audio, the 2 stores that I enjoy dealing with there, the difference is huge. I haven't bought anything at either store yet, due to the fact that I would need to ship my purchases back to NY, but the salespeople that I have dealt with who clearly know my situation have been generally more generous with their time, knowledge, and courtesy than most of their counterparts in NY.

My critical factor is making a connection with an audio salesperson who will listen to me, as opposed to one lecturing me regarding their exclusive version of audio truth. I seek out and am totally open to hearing and incorporating audio info, but I just want it presented in an interchange, and not a tiresome monologue. Again, I have found that the audio folks in Seattle as a whole listen better to their customers than the ones in NYC, but it varies tremendously, as I mentioned in my earlier post in this thread about the 2 people I had dealt with around B&W equipment that were very helpful. The one thing I do often see/feel in most stores (audio, clothing, drugstores, food, etc.) in NY, is an East Coast 'tude of aloofness and condescension (even in Best Buy) which is very, very rare in Seattle, and the opposite carries through to almost any kind of stores there - certainly not just audio.
Brian B's Avatar Brian B 03:33 PM 08-07-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by index2020X View Post

Thanks to Breako and others for your responses.
I'll follow up on all the suggestions.
In the New York area, I found two retailers via the B&W website - Innovative Audio and Lyric Hi-Fi - that I visited. Sales folks there gave me the vibes that selling a $1,500 speaker system is below their dignity smile.gif Heard them say thinks like ... "we mostly do full HT systems for $50,000+". A rather snooty lot. smile.gif Not sure these guys would entertain any price negotiation... not even sure they want to sell CM5s alone at full price Apparently the recession didn't hit them smile.gif I also checked out Best-Buy Magnolia (sales guy was very nice and demo'd the CM5s very nicely) but obviously no flex on price.
Would love to get any dealer recommendations... dealers people know... and would be interested in my business!
Many thanks,

I agree with Kal. You need to decide what you want from the dealer. If all you are looking for is a great price then go in prepared to buy and just negotiate. That will show you are serious and will make any further (future) purchase you make from the dealer easier.

B.
Kal Rubinson's Avatar Kal Rubinson 06:44 PM 08-07-2012

Wow.  I guess the stereotype of the snooty NY audio dealer is not imaginary.  I have to say that I have not experienced it except once.  I responded with attitude (I am a New Yorker) and he turned tail.  

 

Bottom line, imho, is that you should just speak up for what you want and indicate that you are a serious customer.  If they do not respond to that, screw 'em.

 

(N.B.: I have no experience with Big & Tall shops and prefer to have clothing salesmen leave me alone.)

 

(P.S.:  I know most of these stores and would be surprised if a solid $1500 sale was despised.)


mjt5282's Avatar mjt5282 06:47 PM 08-07-2012
in my limited experience trying audio retail in NYC, most salesmen want to 1) have an appointment setup in advance 2) discuss and demo desired equipment if you pass their "qualification standards" 3) attempt to upsell you to a higher end, more expensive brand or model . My experiences with brick & mortar stores around NYC is that you won't get significant discounts unless 1) they are attempting to resell cherished customers used equipment or 2) attempting to sell demo equipment and bring new equipment into their shop or 3) they are bankrupt and liquidating their inventories.

My specific recommendations are as follows : NYC - Stereo Exchange (they stock B&W, Meridian, etc) , Lyric in White Plains (but call in advance and setup an appointment...they seem to focus on LPs/analog but are helpful) and my favorite zen-master Audio sales person - Terry Menacker at Overture AV in Wilmington, DE . I think just staying in business is an achievement in brick & mortar high-end audio these days ...
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