Amplifier for Revel Salon2 for 10K or less. - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 460 Old 08-20-2012, 05:45 AM
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Smokey the bear says... only you can prevent home theater fires.

butter and jelly please.
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post #182 of 460 Old 08-20-2012, 06:12 AM
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It should be "Thumpy the woofer" saying that...

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

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post #183 of 460 Old 08-20-2012, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

.
If after reading a rational warning regarding overloading one's circuits, one wants to chance burning their home down with an expensive home theater system because they didn't want to spend a thousand dollars to upgrade their electric service, that's on them.
Unless one is willing to indemnify another person, one should not discount warnings.
-

Definitely better safe than sorry.

Are we talking about causing fire while the audio system is playing and overloading ?
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post #184 of 460 Old 08-20-2012, 06:33 AM
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^^^

for rational warnings, sure...

however, the flaws in his "logic" have already been pointed out...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #185 of 460 Old 08-20-2012, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babak147 View Post

This is from a friend/dealer , Ithought it will add to the value of the discussion , I'm removing the name and contact to respect his privacy/identity as I didn't ask his permission to publish this, but it's just another opinion which I respect.
[IHi Babak,
 
I just today came across your $10k Amp thread and find it quite amusing.
 
I feel bad for you being a beginner getting such crazy advices from so many different self styled experts.
 
We spoke some time ago on the phone and you said you would contact me when you were ready to purchase your speakers.  I see you found a great price on a demo pair.  That is GREAT.
 
When it comes to amps, the guys who say there is "no difference" simply don't have enough experience, don't have any listening skills, or don't know how amps interact with different speakers to get certain sonic qualities.
 
Wouldn't it be great if you "DIDN'T" have to turn your speakers up really loud (potentially damaging your hearing) to hear the detail and resolution you want?
 
To be sure, you can use virtually any amp with a lot of power and get pretty good sound, but if you want quality sound with sound staging, imaging, resolution, detail, high quality bass, and all the rest, then you will need to get an amp or amps that will give you what your speakers are capable of producing.
 
If all you want is HT sound then grab an ATI (I am a dealer) and you'll be fine, but you wasted your $$ on REVEL speakers and their potential.
 
If you want to really learn this hobby (not just HT) then feel free to call me again and we can discuss what I would do for you and why.  Reading the responses from most of these guys (even the ones with speakers like yours) is comical since if you look at how they listen, and what they listen to, they really have no idea what they are talking about.][/I]

Your friend is wrong. We're right. End of discussion. biggrin.gif
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post #186 of 460 Old 08-20-2012, 06:45 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

Definitely better safe than sorry.
Are we talking about causing fire while the audio system is playing and overloading ?

As opposed to just sitting there, all pretty and nice, cool to the touch, looking all sweet an innocent?

tongue.gif

(j/k)

Folks here are complacent about home theater demands and their electric service. There are far too many house fires because of overloaded circuits. This is a well known homeowner problem and it's not wise to poo-poo or ignore issues of this kind when adding lots of way cool home theater gear, including high watt, outboard Amps.

Back in the 50's, 60's and 70's, houses didn't know what home theater was and in the 70's, rare was the home which had met a home computer. Most homes were built in those days with five, ten and fifteen amp circuits as lvrms, at most, had some 100w incandescent lights coupled with a tubed 25" TV and maybe a low watt, amplified stereo system. It's a different day and age which many houses were not built to safely deal with. Today, with portable heaters/AC units, lights, ceiling fans and home theater systems, quite easily, these appliances can suck 1500w out of the wall. At 15A, which most houses are wired for, if your service is 120v, you're 300w from max. You have more headroom with a 20A circuit. Unbeknownst to most people, wires are intended to heat up. If you're at the end of a long run, stating the obvious, you'll have more resistance and more heat will build up. Not good.

It makes sense to discuss the reality of this well known issue. It makes no common sense to poo-poo the discussing of this issue and discourage the spending of a service charge to have your wiring checked out by a professional.

Let's say, ninety-five out of a hundred times, the professional finds nothing and I'm wrong, what does anyone tell the five out of a hundred who's house burned down whom they discouraged the spending of a few bucks to have their house wiring checked out; "Gee, I'm sorry I caused you to burn your house down?"

Old people have little to no tolerance for bad advice and people who feel comfortable giving bad advice. Experience dictates that well we shouldn't. Preventing people from making judgement errors is a good thing. Encouraging people to make bad judgement calls is a bad thing. Making fun of people is jerk behavior, we all know it and we all teach our children to be better then that.

-
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post #187 of 460 Old 08-20-2012, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

As opposed to just sitting there, all pretty and nice, cool to the touch, looking all sweet an innocent?
tongue.gif
(j/k)
Folks here are complacent about home theater demands and their electric service. There are far too many house fires because of overloaded circuits. This is a well known homeowner problem and it's not wise to poo-poo or ignore issues of this kind when adding lots of way cool home theater gear, including high watt, outboard Amps.
Back in the 50's, 60's and 70's, houses didn't know what home theater was and in the 70's, rare was the home which had met a home computer. Most homes were built in those days with five, ten and fifteen amp circuits as lvrms, at most, had some 100w incandescent lights coupled with a tubed 25" TV and maybe a low watt, amplified stereo system. It's a different day and age which many houses were not built to safely deal with. Today, with portable heaters/AC units, lights, ceiling fans and home theater systems, quite easily, these appliances can suck 1500w out of the wall. At 15A, which most houses are wired for, if your service is 120v, you're 300w from max. You have more headroom with a 20A circuit. Unbeknownst to most people, wires are intended to heat up. If you're at the end of a long run, stating the obvious, you'll have more resistance and more heat will build up. Not good.
It makes sense to discuss the reality of this well known issue. It makes no common sense to poo-poo the discussing of this issue and discourage the spending of a service charge to have your wiring checked out by a professional.
Let's say, ninety-five out of a hundred times, the professional finds nothing and I'm wrong, what does anyone tell the five out of a hundred who's house burned down whom they discouraged from spending a few bucks to have their house wiring checked out; "Gee, I'm sorry I caused you to burn your house down?"
Old people have little to no tolerance for bad advice and people who feel comfortable giving bad advice. Preventing people from making judgement errors is a good thing. Encouraging people to make bad judgement calls is a bad thing.
-

I agree except most are saying that the HT would not be the cause of said fire, usually a normal house appliance would do it. How many people have HT's anyways? If they do the majority are HTIB systems which don't draw any current to matter. The nut cases(us) who have major HT's put time into the everything, including the wiring.

The the OP, your friend is full of crap! He just wants to sell his amps. That whole low level resolution is BS. Of course a normal person can't notice the difference because they needed to be trained to, I say if one needs to be trained to hear that small difference(placebo) then it is not worth it anyways. I have done al this training and testing, in the end it is crap.
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post #188 of 460 Old 08-20-2012, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

As opposed to just sitting there, all pretty and nice, cool to the touch, looking all sweet an innocent?
tongue.gif
(j/k)
Folks here are complacent about home theater demands and their electric service. There are far too many house fires because of overloaded circuits. This is a well known homeowner problem and it's not wise to poo-poo or ignore issues of this kind when adding lots of way cool home theater gear, including high watt, outboard Amps.
Back in the 50's, 60's and 70's, houses didn't know what home theater was and in the 70's, rare was the home which had met a home computer. Most homes were built in those days with five, ten and fifteen amp circuits as lvrms, at most, had some 100w incandescent lights coupled with a tubed 25" TV and maybe a low watt, amplified stereo system. It's a different day and age which many houses were not built to safely deal with. Today, with portable heaters/AC units, lights, ceiling fans and home theater systems, quite easily, these appliances can suck 1500w out of the wall. At 15A, which most houses are wired for, if your service is 120v, you're 300w from max. You have more headroom with a 20A circuit. Unbeknownst to most people, wires are intended to heat up. If you're at the end of a long run, stating the obvious, you'll have more resistance and more heat will build up. Not good.
It makes sense to discuss the reality of this well known issue. It makes no common sense to poo-poo the discussing of this issue and discourage the spending of a service charge to have your wiring checked out by a professional.
Let's say, ninety-five out of a hundred times, the professional finds nothing and I'm wrong, what does anyone tell the five out of a hundred who's house burned down whom they discouraged the spending of a few bucks to have their house wiring checked out; "Gee, I'm sorry I caused you to burn your house down?"
Old people have little to no tolerance for bad advice and people who feel comfortable giving bad advice. Experience dictates that well we shouldn't. Preventing people from making judgement errors is a good thing. Encouraging people to make bad judgement calls is a bad thing. Making fun of people is jerk behavior, we all know it and we all teach our children to be better then that.
-

That might all be meaningful if you actually understood the draw an HT requires to run under normal operating conditions.
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post #189 of 460 Old 08-20-2012, 07:17 AM
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waiting patiently for an example to be provided where a house fire was directly related to overloading by a ht setup....

following the "logic" being presented, every outlet in the house should have a dedicated circuit, and we should all have 1000 amp service...

no one is proposing intentionally overloading circuits... however, simply adding up "max consumption" of the equipment doesn't tell you anything, as they (especially amplifiers) will not have anywhere near a constant draw of max...

the suggestion of starting a seperate thread to discuss this, ummm, "danger" is a good one...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #190 of 460 Old 08-20-2012, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babak147 View Post

I just today came across your $10k Amp thread and find it quite amusing.....
 
I feel bad for you being a beginner getting such crazy advices from so many different self styled experts....

is comical since if you look at how they listen, and what they listen to, they really have no idea what they are talking about.][/I]

Since your dealer is reading this: The OP needs to use his own ears to evaluate with. He doesn't need to spend $10K or anywhere near that to get the Revels sounding great.

An audiophile likes to talk about how much they spent and how good it sounds.

A DIY'er likes to talk about how little they spent and how good it sounds.

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post #191 of 460 Old 08-20-2012, 07:30 AM
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What amp is your dealer recommending?

An audiophile likes to talk about how much they spent and how good it sounds.

A DIY'er likes to talk about how little they spent and how good it sounds.

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post #192 of 460 Old 08-20-2012, 07:32 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinjuku View Post

He doesn't need to spend $10K or anywhere near that to get the Revels sounding great.

Waiting........waiting........wait for it........"THUMP!" The sound of the audio dealer passing out and hitting the floor.

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post #193 of 460 Old 08-20-2012, 07:33 AM
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Here is another vote for Emotiva XPA 1's. I have 3 running my newly acquired Salon 2's and my Mythos 10 center channel. Tremendous headroom. Sounds very dynamic yet smooth. Ultimately try out as many as you can and decide. Emo is a safe bet with their return policy, although I doubt you will want to once you've heard them.
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post #194 of 460 Old 08-20-2012, 07:35 AM
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Concerning the 20 yr. warranty on the Bryston amp that has been mentioned in this thread numerous times. It certainly is a huge leap of faith that Bryston will still be in business 20 years from now. I'm surprised that no one here has mentioned this yet, with all the skeptical talk of double blind testing.

Example... My house has Hurd windows. They had a long warranty. Hurd went bankrupt not too long ago, but is now back in business. Do they honor those pre-bankruptcy warranties? NO! They did not survive the court bankruptcy procedure.
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post #195 of 460 Old 08-20-2012, 07:35 AM
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@mako...

sadly, the way that the great majority "try out" amplifiers (or other stuff) has a grand total of zero validity...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #196 of 460 Old 08-20-2012, 07:39 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I agree except most are saying that the HT would not be the cause of said fire, usually a normal house appliance would do it. How many people have HT's anyways? If they do the majority are HTIB systems which don't draw any current to matter. The nut cases(us) who have major HT's put time into the everything, including the wiring.

Two points, I've over and over and over again, made the point, when the addition of high watt, outboard Amps and second, not according to comments left here. The vocal naysayers here have made it very clear, they actively discourage having wiring inspected as they actively post the discouragement by others, from doing the same. When adding high powered outboard Amps, the continued discouragement of having, one's electrical system inspected, is flat out immoral as doing so gives one a false sense of security.

As long as I can, while challenged on this subject, because it's a reasonable expectation, I will continue to defend the position that if adding high powered, outboard Amps to a home theater system, then one should at minimum, hire a certified electrician to have their home wiring/service panel certified to be adequate for home theater use. On the part of others, to say otherwise, is flat out wrong; bad advice.

The comment was to simply give the OP a heads-up warning as folks here have taken the comment totally off topic.

-
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post #197 of 460 Old 08-20-2012, 07:40 AM
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@easy...

"huge" leap of faith? maybe... i suppose it's possible that any company can go out of business, it happens daily...

the reason that warrantee is brought up so often is because it's unique AND they stand behind it, no questions asked... i was the 4th owner of a 12 year old unit and blew an amp channel... called, sent it in (no "what did YOU do to it?" type questions) and had it back in 2 weeks...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #198 of 460 Old 08-20-2012, 07:48 AM
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The OP has purchased an awesome pair of speakers. The pursuit for amplification of said speakers is one I'd love to be standing at the trail head, ready for whatever lay ahead. I, would not let my currant electrical situation stand in my way. Your (In my mind, any) system may require amperage than can be safely supplied. I would safely & to code make sure my system had what it needed when I plugged a piece in. If you need to add a 20 amp circuit or more I would do it, also consider future needs. I am in no way talking about surge and or conditioning, $150 outlets, after market PC, . . ., as Chris said just don't use the ultra cheap $1 outlets. Put your feet up & enjoy your system knowing your electrical needs will not be a problem. Enjoy your path finding amp(s) that you like.

Steve
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post #199 of 460 Old 08-20-2012, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Two points, I've over and over and over again, made the point, when the addition of high watt, outboard Amps and second, not according to comments left here. The vocal naysayers here have made it very clear, they actively discourage having wiring inspected as they actively post the discouragement by others, from doing the same. When adding high powered outboard Amps, the continued discouragement of having, one's electrical system inspected, is flat out immoral as doing so gives one a false sense of security.
As long as I can, while challenged on this subject, because it's a reasonable expectation, I will continue to defend the position that if adding high powered, outboard Amps to a home theater system, then one should at minimum, hire a certified electrician to have their home wiring/service panel certified to be adequate for home theater use. On the part of others, to say otherwise, is flat out wrong; bad advice.
The comment was to simply give the OP a heads-up warning as folks here have taken the comment totally off topic.
-

I still agree, but, they are also saying those high powered amps won't be utilized to their max, not even close. If using for high powered subs that is a different story. If he runs these speakers in stereo(I am assuming he is) then the max these speakers will see is 300 watts and anything near this I bet won't sound too good so he would back it off a bit. I does not matter if he adds a 10000 watt amp, it won't draw more than the speaker can handle. He is looking at 600 watts max I bet and that is for 3 second peaks if that. Most of the time people are listening to less than a 1 watt to 10 watts.
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post #200 of 460 Old 08-20-2012, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnjoyingMyRide View Post

The OP has purchased an awesome pair of speakers. The pursuit for amplification of said speakers is one I'd love to be standing at the trail head, ready for whatever lay ahead. I, would not let my currant electrical situation stand in my way. Your (In my mind, any) system may require amperage than can be safely supplied. I would safely & to code make sure my system had what it needed when I plugged a piece in. If you need to add a 20 amp circuit or more I would do it, also consider future needs. I am in no way talking about surge and or conditioning, $150 outlets, after market PC, . . ., as Chris said just don't use the ultra cheap $1 outlets. Put your feet up & enjoy your system knowing your electrical needs will not be a problem. Enjoy your path finding amp(s) that you like.

Not needed at all, again, those speakers can only handle so much power. If he adds a Lab Gruppen 14K(14000 watts), his speakers will only use what it can. It will sound bad before it uses too much power.
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post #201 of 460 Old 08-20-2012, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I agree except most are saying that the HT would not be the cause of said fire, usually a normal house appliance would do it. How many people have HT's anyways? If they do the majority are HTIB systems which don't draw any current to matter. The nut cases(us) who have major HT's put time into the everything, including the wiring.

Two points, I've over and over and over again, made the point, when the addition of high watt, outboard Amps and second, not according to comments left here. The vocal naysayers here have made it very clear, they actively discourage having wiring inspected as they actively post the discouragement by others, from doing the same. When adding high powered outboard Amps, the continued discouragement of having, one's electrical system inspected, is flat out immoral as doing so gives one a false sense of security.

As long as I can, while challenged on this subject, because it's a reasonable expectation, I will continue to defend the position that if adding high powered, outboard Amps to a home theater system, then one should at minimum, hire a certified electrician to have their home wiring/service panel certified to be adequate for home theater use. On the part of others, to say otherwise, is flat out wrong; bad advice.

The comment was to simply give the OP a heads-up warning as folks here have taken the comment totally off topic.

-

do you also recommmend the same before someone plugs in a hair dryer or a space heater? or any other device that has a high constant draw? heck, even devices that may have high peak usage?

you have a gross misunderstanding of the draw of even those "high power amps" in real life usage... i suggest you back off a bit and acquire some knowledge, as your continued repetitiveness about something you clearly do not grasp isn't winning you any points... hint: even if you do peak out a very high wattage, it is nowhere near constant...

again, no one here is suggesting anything unsafe... cry wolf all you like....

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #202 of 460 Old 08-20-2012, 09:45 AM - Thread Starter
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My room.
I took these 3 photos with my cell yesterday, Sorry for poor quality , The room is not finished yet , It will give you an idea of size and power requirement.
Dimensions 21X26 ft.





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post #203 of 460 Old 08-20-2012, 09:48 AM
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^^^

hope there's some room in the budget for some carpeting, at the very least... smile.gif

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #204 of 460 Old 08-20-2012, 09:57 AM
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I would spend around half of my original amp budget of $10k on room treatments. No amp no matter how great its suppose to sound is going to over come bad room acoustics. Bass traps, treatment for reflections and decay times is going to be needed. The room is going to make or break a great sounding speaker. Its a very nice room but will benefit from some serious room treatments to get the best sound out of you nice Revels. Send those pics to GIK and see what recommendations they could give you to treat the room The room looks very "alive" which means all the hard surfaces like glass and the wood walls and flooring will greatly accent the treble making it very bright and fatiquing to listen too for extended periods of time.

http://www.gikacoustics.com/products.html
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post #205 of 460 Old 08-20-2012, 10:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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^^^
hope there's some room in the budget for some carpeting, at the very least... smile.gif
No Carpets , I hate carpets , May be a rug of some kind but no carpets , I dont care how compromised the sound is going to be , lol.
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post #206 of 460 Old 08-20-2012, 10:06 AM
 
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No Carpets , I hate carpets , May be a rug of some kind but no carpets , I dont care how compromised the sound is going to be , lol.

Thank-you! If you had chosen cover those beautiful wood floors with carpet and I died, I would have had to come back and haunt you. tongue.gif
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post #207 of 460 Old 08-20-2012, 10:15 AM
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My room.
Dimensions 21X26 ft.





Sweet.

Get the ATI. If you want better aesthetic, pay more for the Lexicon. If you want even better aesthetic, pay even more and get the Mark Levinson.

Harman speakers meet Harman amps. biggrin.gif

The Crown (also Harman), would do great in terms of SQ and power, but seriously lack the aesthetic for that beautiful room. In any case, you will need 20A circuits in that room.

Sweet.
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post #208 of 460 Old 08-20-2012, 10:21 AM
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No Carpets , I hate carpets , May be a rug of some kind but no carpets , I dont care how compromised the sound is going to be , lol.

I would agree as well. Not that beautiful room. Some tasteful rugs, but no carpets or big acoustic panels all over the walls. eek.gif

Sure, the room may not be 100% perfect. But that's why you got the Salon2, which has excellent off-axis response. No worries IMO. Some rugs and drapes or curtains and some soft sofas and such.
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post #209 of 460 Old 08-20-2012, 10:49 AM
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have you thought about Butler Audio .
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post #210 of 460 Old 08-20-2012, 11:58 AM
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^^^
hope there's some room in the budget for some carpeting, at the very least... smile.gif
No Carpets , I hate carpets , May be a rug of some kind but no carpets , I dont care how compromised the sound is going to be , lol.

well, then, why are you so worried about the "sound quality" of your amp? confused.gif

all the great off axis response in the world isn't gonna help if the room is an echo chamber...

me confused... you went out and spent a LOT of money on speakers... why? audiophile jewelry?

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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