Anything better than Martin Logan MLT-2 5.1 for under $500? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 08-14-2012, 08:22 AM - Thread Starter
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About to pick up some MLT-2s for around $339 with shipping, but wanted to make sure there wasn't anything better for less than $500.

I will pair this with a Denon 1712 and the primary use is for bitstreaming high def audio from Blu-Ray movies over HDMI to the receiver.

I currently have an Onkyo HT-SR800 home theater in a box. Will this be a significant improvement?
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post #2 of 20 Old 08-14-2012, 08:40 AM
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I would look at 2 pairs of the new (phase 2) Pioneer bookshelf speakers
On sale at Best Buy
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Pioneer+-+4%26%2334%3B+Bookshelf+Speakers+(Pair)/5086955.p?id=1218610014045&skuId=5086955

The new center channel
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Pioneer+-+Dual+4%26%2334%3B+Center-Channel+Speaker/5086891.p?id=1218610015437&skuId=5086891

More info
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/Speakers/Home+Theater+Speakers

And, the Energy S10.3 sub - keep an eye on Newegg, it tends to go
on sale for $199 every weekend or two
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882269026

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post #3 of 20 Old 08-14-2012, 08:51 AM
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New Egg had that MLT-2 for $229.00 about two weeks ago...that would be better!

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and SLS Q line Audio surrounds, EMP 10i10i sub
Set up #2: Def Tech SM450, CLR2002, SLS Qline surrounds and Klipsch 12wD sub
Set up #3: JBL130, JBL120C and Klipsch synergy sub
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post #4 of 20 Old 08-14-2012, 08:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Would the Pioneer's be noticeably better than the MLT-2s?
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post #5 of 20 Old 08-14-2012, 10:31 AM
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the frequency response of the MLT-2 sats is 110hz - 20khz
the frequency reponse of the MLT-2 center is 130hz - 20khz

I'd prefer speakers than reach down into the 80hz range.

I would take a flyer on the Pioneers. You can actually listen to them at Best Buy. Or even better bring them home and listen in your own environment since you've got 30 days to return them.

The energy s10.3 will definitely be better than the MLT-2 sub.

Afro GT
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post #6 of 20 Old 08-14-2012, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thor17 View Post

Would the Pioneer's be noticeably better than the MLT-2s?

The new Pioneer speakers are good with nice bass and will work better - The only thing that I will buy
from Best Buy, is the Pioneer. And, the new ones are really better than the older ones.

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Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
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post #7 of 20 Old 08-14-2012, 10:51 AM
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I have a full set of the Pioneers and the Energy sub mentioned and they are great. All told I got the whole package for $420 shipped from NewEgg about a month ago. They do go on sale there often, so if you can be patient it will pay off.

On a slightly different note, I've heard you likely won't discern a difference in HD audio vs DTS core with budget-minded speakers. smile.gif
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post #8 of 20 Old 08-14-2012, 11:10 AM
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I know the term HtiB is discussed amongst audiophiles like it is some kind of racial slur...but the MLT-2 is essentially an HtiB speaker system, or maybe more accurately, a satellite speaker system. Most satellite system won't sound all that good in anything but a smallish room. However, I have not heard the MTL-2 system....

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and SLS Q line Audio surrounds, EMP 10i10i sub
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Set up #3: JBL130, JBL120C and Klipsch synergy sub
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post #9 of 20 Old 08-14-2012, 01:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks all. Looks like I may pick up these Pioneers. Would buying another pair of the bookshelf speakers to complete the 7.1 be overkill or could I get away with the rear surrounds from my Onkyo?
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post #10 of 20 Old 08-14-2012, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thor17 View Post

Thanks all. Looks like I may pick up these Pioneers. Would buying another pair of the bookshelf speakers to complete the 7.1 be overkill or could I get away with the rear surrounds from my Onkyo?

I would start with 5.1 for now - worry about 7.1 later.

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Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30
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post #11 of 20 Old 08-14-2012, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thor17 View Post

Thanks all. Looks like I may pick up these Pioneers. Would buying another pair of the bookshelf speakers to complete the 7.1 be overkill or could I get away with the rear surrounds from my Onkyo?
fwiw,imo unless your room is very large 7.1 is a bit of overkill

i'm so laid back,i'm laid out
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post #12 of 20 Old 08-14-2012, 06:11 PM
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I agree. Get the new Pioneer 5.0 set. Put the rest of your budget into a better subwoofer. The Pioneer SW-8 subwoofer is very small and underwhelming. The Energy S10.3 mentioned above in the thread is nice. The BIC F12 is also a good entry level budget subwoofer for HT.

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post #13 of 20 Old 11-24-2012, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

the frequency response of the MLT-2 sats is 110hz - 20khz
the frequency reponse of the MLT-2 center is 130hz - 20khz
I'd prefer speakers than reach down into the 80hz range.
I would take a flyer on the Pioneers. You can actually listen to them at Best Buy. Or even better bring them home and listen in your own environment since you've got 30 days to return them.
The energy s10.3 will definitely be better than the MLT-2 sub.

Crazy n00b question: what exactly does that mean if the frequency response of the MLT-2 center is higher (at 130hz)?

Currently, I have the Onkyo S-3400 HTIB and have my "Crossover" setting at 100hz. The Onkyo speakers have a frequency range of 80 Hz–20 kHz, BUT they only have a 3.5" driver with no tweeters for highs. The lack of tweeters is why the MLT-2's are interesting (since it has 1" tweeters), yet people are saying that the MLT-2's have limited frequency. Why is setting Crossover at 130hz or 140hz considered detrimental in the world of audio quality? confused.gif

(P.S. The frequency range is one of the reasons why I am also considering the Energy Take Classic 5 speakers in lieu of the MLT-2's.)
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post #14 of 20 Old 11-24-2012, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comp625 View Post

Crazy n00b question: what exactly does that mean if the frequency response of the MLT-2 center is higher (at 130hz)?
Currently, I have the Onkyo S-3400 HTIB and have my "Crossover" setting at 100hz. The Onkyo speakers have a frequency range of 80 Hz–20 kHz, BUT they only have a 3.5" driver with no tweeters for highs. The lack of tweeters is why the MLT-2's are interesting (since it has 1" tweeters), yet people are saying that the MLT-2's have limited frequency. Why is setting Crossover at 130hz or 140hz considered detrimental in the world of audio quality? confused.gif
(P.S. The frequency range is one of the reasons why I am also considering the Energy Take Classic 5 speakers in lieu of the MLT-2's.)

For one thing, if you are setting your Onkyo xover at 100Hz, and your speaker is starting at 130Hz, you will lose frequency content from 100 to 130Hz.
the frequency rating of the speaker is basically the frequency that it is tested and "sort of flat". Anything outside those range starts to rollover.
If you have a subwoofer, then it is not such a big deal if you xover at say 120-130Hz for your speaker, since at below 120/130Hz, it goes to subwoofer so you do not lose content. However, since frequency above 100Hz starts to be directional, then you will have some content coming out from subwoofer, which could not be ideal. The director may intend those to come out from the front speakers, and if you say place your subwoofer in a corner, it might sound strange.
On the other hand, frequency content below 80Hz are usually non directional, so it does not matter where you put your subwoofer.

Hope that helps.
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post #15 of 20 Old 11-24-2012, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comp625 View Post

The Onkyo speakers have a frequency range of 80 Hz–20 kHz, BUT they only have a 3.5" driver with no tweeters for highs.
The 80 hz on them Onkyo speakers is optimistic - they are lucky to hit 120 hz in an average room.
You may be able to hear their 80 hz, if you hold the speaker close to your ear.

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post #16 of 20 Old 11-24-2012, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fight4yu View Post

For one thing, if you are setting your Onkyo xover at 100Hz, and your speaker is starting at 130Hz, you will lose frequency content from 100 to 130Hz.
the frequency rating of the speaker is basically the frequency that it is tested and "sort of flat". Anything outside those range starts to rollover.
If you have a subwoofer, then it is not such a big deal if you xover at say 120-130Hz for your speaker, since at below 120/130Hz, it goes to subwoofer so you do not lose content. However, since frequency above 100Hz starts to be directional, then you will have some content coming out from subwoofer, which could not be ideal. The director may intend those to come out from the front speakers, and if you say place your subwoofer in a corner, it might sound strange.
On the other hand, frequency content below 80Hz are usually non directional, so it does not matter where you put your subwoofer.
Hope that helps.

I apologize, I think I was unclear in my description.

My current Onkyo HT-S3400 (HTIB) speakers have frequency that starts at 80hz, so a Crossover setting at 100hz is OK. However, zieglj01 brings up a good point that I've heard before; the Onkyo speakers SAY they reach down to 80hz but it truly operates around the 120hz range (at best).

IF I were to "upgrade" to the Martin Logan MLT-2, I would GAIN a 1" tweeter for highs and a slightly larger 4" woofer for mids. My Onkyo only has 3.5" woofer with no tweeter. However, I would have to set my Crossover to 130hz/140hz. So in a way, I gain better clarity for the high's, but I lose out on the low's since they would be deferred to my subwoofer.

ALTERNATIVE #2, if I were to "upgrade" to the Energy Take Classic 5 speakers, I would gain the 0.75" tweeters, but would lose on the mid's since the Energy's only have a 3" woofer (smaller than what I have right in the Onkyos). However, the frequency is not bad; it's rated for 110HZ – 20kHZ -- meaning I would set my Crossover to 120hz, no?

P.S. I'm no audiophile, but I do place more value into dialogue clarity and crispness in music (e.g. classical). That's why I want to upgrade my current speakers. smile.gif
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post #17 of 20 Old 11-24-2012, 04:30 PM
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Why are you forcing yourself to only look at satellite speakers? Something a little bigger would perform better.

the Pioneer BS-21 would be better and also the Polk Monitor 30.

Afro GT
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post #18 of 20 Old 11-24-2012, 04:49 PM
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FWIW. I'm looking at the MLT-2's for next year (I need to keep the footprint small and it's too close to Christmas to buy them now). Currently, my speakers are what came with my HTiB. The sound was certainly ok for our listening environment and needs, but once I set the x-over for the sub at 120Hz, with the other speakers set to Small, the sound changed dramatically, and for the better, at least to my ears. The bass was clear and non-directional, dialog is totally clear, the "atmosphere" of the sides (a 5.1 system) is great, and the front sound stage is wonderful. Sure, I'm missing some range but 5.1 (OTA tv), DVDs, and blu-rays sound great! If you are an audiophile this is probably heresy, but I think for the "regular" listener, this approach is fine until you can get speakers with bigger drivers, etc.
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post #19 of 20 Old 11-24-2012, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

Why are you forcing yourself to only look at satellite speakers? Something a little bigger would perform better.
the Pioneer BS-21 would be better and also the Polk Monitor 30.

Space restrictions. frown.gif

I would totally consider larger speakers, including the Polk Monitor 30's, the Pioneer BS-21's (that my buddy just bought! frown.gif) or the NHT AbsoluteZero's.
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post #20 of 20 Old 11-24-2012, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post

FWIW. I'm looking at the MLT-2's for next year (I need to keep the footprint small and it's too
close to Christmas to buy them now).

If you are still shopping in January, and if you still need a small footprint - and if they are still around,
Then put this Acoustic Energy set on a short list. Acoustic Energy makes good product. The sats use
to list for $249 each, and the sub for $749
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/ACENAEGOPACK/ACOUSTIC-ENERGY-AEGO-AE12-5.1-Home-Theater-Speaker-Package-Gloss-Black/1.html

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Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30
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