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post #1 of 26 Old 08-20-2012, 09:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey Guys,

This past weekend I went ahead and bought my dream TV – the Panasonic 65” VT50. My next step is to build my home theatre system. I have a Denon AVR-487 from years ago which came with a receiver, DVD player, sub and speakers. The receiver is now outdated – it has only 2 HDMI inputs. I’ve been doing a lot of reading and trying to make sense of speakers, and the brands on this forum. I also love the fact that the community here is so helpful. If you guys have a few minutes, I would like your opinion on these questions:

  1. I live in an apartment where my living area is 15x13. I currently have my old 60” rear-projection TV on the corner wall (in red) with a sectional couch on the opposite wall (See attached picture). My new plasma will take its place.
    How would you go about designing a good home theater set up?
    Budget: $1500-$2000 for the speakers alone.
    Use: Movies and Video gaming. I’d say 55%Gaming, 40% movies and maybe a bit of music listening in there (about 5%). I will use my existing PS3 as my blu ray player.
  2. AVR Choice: I’m trying to decide between the Denon’s listed in batpig’s faq: Should I stick with the basic model Denon 1913 or go for the 2312ci or 2113ci?
  3. Do I need a 5.1 or 7.1 setup?
  4. Do I keep my existing sub from the Denon Avr-487 or invest in a new one? If I need to invest in a new one, thn the sub would cut in on my existing speaker budget
  5. Are floor standing/tower speakers or bookshelf speakers better?
  6. Where/How would you position the speakers?

I’d like to buy speakers thinking long term where in the eventuality I move to a bigger space or my own house, I would like to be able to use these speakers there as well.

Capture1.JPG 16k .JPG file

Thanks in advance for your help!
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post #2 of 26 Old 08-20-2012, 09:55 AM
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I'd go with the 2312CI if you can find it for a good price, you should be able to find it for around 400 bucks or less.

Go with a 5.1 setup. 7.1 is pointless unless you have a large home theatre. You can't run 7 speakers off an AVR very well without external amplification.

Definitely gonna want a new sub, I'd look at internet direct brands such as epik or HSU. Or you could do a DIY if you have the tools/knowledge for it. I'd budget at least 500 for a subwoofer. Subwoofers are so important for a good gaming/movie experience.

There's not much difference between floor standers and bookshelfs if you have a subwoofer. Find ones you like, doesn't really matter if they are towers or bookshelf. Bookshelfs are smaller so they take up less space, but you have to mount them or get stands.

Just position them standard, center as close to ear level as possible right under or above your tv. Left and right beside the tv, and surrounds behind you as much as possible. edit: just looked at your picture. I'd just put the surrounds on the back walls pointing towards the left and right sides of your couch. They won't be as good as behind, but there's no where else you can put them in that set-up.
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post #3 of 26 Old 08-20-2012, 11:29 AM - Thread Starter
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post #4 of 26 Old 08-20-2012, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vilas View Post

Thanks for your input. Did you take a look at thi sdeal from slick deals? http://slickdeals.net/f/5066148-Klipsch-Reference-Series-II-Speaker-System-Harman-Kardon-AVR-3650-Receiver-Harman-Kardon-Bridge-III-iPod-iPhone-Docking-Station-2-Pack-PA-150-15-Subwoofers-2595-amp-More-Fr? Seems like a good package for the price

meh. I hate the rf-82's they sound bad to me.

Also those speakers are MASSIVE. Like they dwarf every other speaker I have ever seen. And they're not really that nice looking imo.

And the package doesn't come with a good sub. Basically any popular speaker brand sells their subwoofers for way more than they're worth.

You should definitely go listen to them though, hopefully you have some stores near you that carry klipsch.
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post #5 of 26 Old 08-20-2012, 12:13 PM
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meh. I hate the rf-82's they sound bad to me.
Also those speakers are MASSIVE. Like they dwarf every other speaker I have ever seen. And they're not really that nice looking imo.

I agree about actually going and listening to what you plan on purchasing because the RF-82s aren't bad looking or sounding speakers to me and they are considerably smaller than what I own.
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post #6 of 26 Old 08-20-2012, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Zen Traveler View Post

I agree about actually going and listening to what you plan on purchasing because the RF-82s aren't bad looking or sounding speakers to me and they are considerably smaller than what I own.

Look at his picture he posted, his TV is in a corner, there isn't room for massive speakers. And he lives in an apartment, I doubt extremely large towers are necessary or ideal.
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post #7 of 26 Old 08-20-2012, 12:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Zen Traveler View Post

I agree about actually going and listening to what you plan on purchasing because the RF-82s aren't bad looking or sounding speakers to me and they are considerably smaller than what I own.

What do you own? What would you recommend for my setup?
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post #8 of 26 Old 08-20-2012, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vilas View Post

What do you own? What would you recommend for my setup?

Do you know what brands the dealers near you carry?
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post #9 of 26 Old 08-20-2012, 01:04 PM
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I own Klipsch RF-7s/RC-7 as my front soundstage and I was responding to one person's opinion about your choice of considering the RF-82s. His response seemed OT insofar as size is concerned and he may very well not like their sound, but others do. Insofar as what you should choose--I would go look and listen to what's on the market and the Klipsch Speaker package you are looking at is a good place to start. In that price range there are other companies that can compete and my opinion won't be better than what you can go and experience for yourself. Good Luck.
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post #10 of 26 Old 08-20-2012, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Zen Traveler View Post

I own Klipsch RF-7s/RC-7 as my front soundstage and I was responding to one person's opinion about your choice of considering the RF-82s. His response seemed OT insofar as size is concerned and he may very well not like their sound, but others do. Insofar as what you should choose--I would go look and listen to what's on the market and the Klipsch Speaker package you are looking at is a good place to start. In that price range there are other companies that can compete and my opinion won't be better than what you can go and experience for yourself. Good Luck.

Ha I was gonna guess those were the speakers you had :P

Just wondering, what size room do you have those in?

Also, how is mentioning speaker size off topic, in a 15x13 room in an apartment?

And I am just giving my opinion on the speakers that he is asking about. I clearly said that I personally don't like how they sound, but he should listen to them himself.
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post #11 of 26 Old 08-20-2012, 01:33 PM
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Ha I was gonna guess those were the speakers you had :P
Just wondering, what size room do you have those in?
Also, does OT mean off-topic or on-topic? lol.

A weird shaped 2,000 cu ft library. I have basically a small "foyer" behind my lp (low slanting ceiling) with RB-75s (large bookshelf speakers) Rears and a RSW-15 subwoofer. In the main room I sit within 9.5 ft from my front soundstage and have an RSW-12 sub on a sidewall with RF-3 towers (the same size as the RF-82s) as my side surrounds that are raised to the same height as my RF-7s. The ceiling in here is an irregular shaped A-Frame that goes up to about 16 ft.

Insofar as OT--I meant that I don't think the RF-82s are big speakers and saying " those speakers are MASSIVE. Like they dwarf every other speaker I have ever seen," seemed over-the-top given there are alot of bigger speakers out there.
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post #12 of 26 Old 08-20-2012, 01:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Do you know what brands the dealers near you carry?

I live in Houston, TX. I was told by another AVS member that I can go an listen to Paradigm and GoldenEar in person
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post #13 of 26 Old 08-20-2012, 02:00 PM
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This is is a tough room for large floorstanding speakers. Most florstanding speakers need a minimum of 12-24" from a boundary (side and back walls) to get proper imaging and sound. In your situation, you should be looking at smaller front ported bookshelf speakers (meaning a dedicated subwoofer is a must).

My actual recommendation is to mov the TV out of the corner and put it across from the couch on the longer wall. This will open up many more speaker options and will also improve your sound and viewing pleasure.
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post #14 of 26 Old 08-20-2012, 02:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

This is is a tough room for large floorstanding speakers. Most florstanding speakers need a minimum of 12-24" from a boundary (side and back walls) to get proper imaging and sound. In your situation, you should be looking at smaller front ported bookshelf speakers (meaning a dedicated subwoofer is a must).
My actual recommendation is to mov the TV out of the corner and put it across from the couch on the longer wall. This will open up many more speaker options and will also improve your sound and viewing pleasure.

I thought of doing that but that would decrease my viewing distance considerably. I still would consider it as I play around with options
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post #15 of 26 Old 08-20-2012, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen Traveler View Post

A weird shaped 2,000 cu ft library. I have basically a small "foyer" behind my lp (low slanting ceiling) with RB-75s (large bookshelf speakers) Rears and a RSW-15 subwoofer. In the main room I sit within 9.5 ft from my front soundstage and have an RSW-12 sub on a sidewall with RF-3 towers (the same size as the RF-82s) as my side surrounds that are raised to the same height as my RF-7s. The ceiling in here is an irregular shaped A-Frame that goes up to about 16 ft.
Insofar as OT--I meant that I don't think the RF-82s are big speakers and saying " those speakers are MASSIVE. Like they dwarf every other speaker I have ever seen," seemed over-the-top given there are alot of bigger speakers out there.

Ha, maybe a bit over the top. I just wanted to emphasize it because most people in an apartment don't want big speakers. And in all the place i've seen them demo'd, they were the biggest speaker by at least 5-6"s :P
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post #16 of 26 Old 08-20-2012, 02:57 PM
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I thought of doing that but that would decrease my viewing distance considerably. I still would consider it as I play around with options

your viewing distance would still be like 11 feet right? That would be a better option I think, for optimal listening/watching. But wouldn't be as good for large groups of people.
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post #17 of 26 Old 08-20-2012, 02:59 PM
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I'd go with the 2312CI if you can find it for a good price, you should be able to find it for around 400 bucks or less.

That's cheaper than I have seen on amazon. Where could I find it for that price?
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post #18 of 26 Old 08-20-2012, 03:01 PM
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I thought of doing that but that would decrease my viewing distance considerably. I still would consider it as I play around with options

I sit 12' from a 125" screen....

For reference:
http://carltonbale.com/1080p-does-matter/

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html
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post #19 of 26 Old 08-20-2012, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vilas View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

This is is a tough room for large floorstanding speakers. Most florstanding speakers need a minimum of 12-24" from a boundary (side and back walls) to get proper imaging and sound. In your situation, you should be looking at smaller front ported bookshelf speakers (meaning a dedicated subwoofer is a must).
My actual recommendation is to mov the TV out of the corner and put it across from the couch on the longer wall. This will open up many more speaker options and will also improve your sound and viewing pleasure.

I thought of doing that but that would decrease my viewing distance considerably. I still would consider it as I play around with options

you'd be better off decreasing your viewing distance... personally, i wouldn't sit any farther away from that screen than 8 feet... and i'd probably want to be closer...

similar to ack, i sit 10 ft from a 110" screen.... works for me... smile.gif

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post #20 of 26 Old 08-20-2012, 05:02 PM - Thread Starter
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oh okay. Do people who have floor standing speakers really have much of room around them? Most setups ive seen show the speaker near a wall. If I moved my tv to the center like you suggested, then I could look to getting mid-tower speakers?
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post #21 of 26 Old 08-20-2012, 05:11 PM
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^^^

if you want them to sound good, yes...

many people, however, put them either "out of the way" or "where they look good"... which is why you see so many pictures of, ummm, "suboptimal" speaker setup...

if i was you (and i'm not), i'd look towards bookshelves and a strong sub... bookshelves can be much more "placement friendly"...

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post #22 of 26 Old 08-20-2012, 05:13 PM
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Bookshelfs or slim towers sealed or front ported.

These would work nicely. http://www.nhthifi.com/Absolute-Tower-Speaker?sc=12&category=3773

And agree with moving the TV to the long wall. I sit 9ft from a 70" screen and it seems too far.

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post #23 of 26 Old 08-20-2012, 05:22 PM
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That's cheaper than I have seen on amazon. Where could I find it for that price?

There should be a price drop soon I think, when they do final clearance on them.

if not, its still only 550.
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post #24 of 26 Old 08-20-2012, 10:15 PM - Thread Starter
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is there a rule of thumb when you are mixing and matching speakers? like can you have the center speaker from 1 company, the front speaker pair from another company and the surround rear ones from the 3rd one? add in the subwoofer and you have 4 different brands..
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post #25 of 26 Old 08-21-2012, 06:19 AM
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is there a rule of thumb when you are mixing and matching speakers? like can you have the center speaker from 1 company, the front speaker pair from another company and the surround rear ones from the 3rd one? add in the subwoofer and you have 4 different brands..

Generally what people say is front 3 speakers the same brand and model line. All front speakers will have a matching center. Surrounds don't matter as much, unless you listen to SACDs or other multi channel music. Subwoofers don't matter at all what brand. Personally, I don't have matching fronts/center, I don't think it is as crucial as people make it out to be. My speakers are from the same brand however, just not the same model line. On my other system I have a klipsch center and paradigm towers, and I don't mind it. I can sometimes tell the tone difference in the speakers, but it's barely noticeable and not a big deal I don't think.
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post #26 of 26 Old 08-21-2012, 06:25 AM
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The problem I see is that you live in an APT.
This (if you care about your neighbors) limits the volume you can listen at.
So at lower volumes, I would keep your current sub and look for some nice bookshelf speakers
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