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post #1 of 29 Old 08-26-2012, 06:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Need recommendations on a center channel to put between 2 definitive technology 800 speakers. I have $200.00 to spend.
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post #2 of 29 Old 08-26-2012, 06:53 PM
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Just get another one and place it on its side.

http://www.amazon.com/Definitive-Technology-ProMonitor-Bookshelf-Speaker/dp/B000TD6QLK

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post #3 of 29 Old 08-26-2012, 07:32 PM
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The procenter 1000 is the matching center for the 800s.

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post #4 of 29 Old 08-27-2012, 04:57 AM
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Putting the same speaker on its side will sound better. Having the tweeter aligned directly with the woofers gives you more horizontal lobing.. Read this article to find out why having a two way on its side is better than that center.

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=89614

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post #5 of 29 Old 08-27-2012, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

Putting the same speaker on its side will sound better. Having the tweeter aligned directly with the woofers gives you more horizontal lobing.. Read this article to find out why having a two way on its side is better than that center.

Not really.  Any horizontal array will have lobing problems whether it is an MTM or an MT bookshelf design. 


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post #6 of 29 Old 08-27-2012, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Not really.  Any horizontal array will have lobing problems whether it is an MTM or an MT bookshelf design. 

...but if I've understood your, and others, comments correctly...

...the MT will have lobing only in the crossover region

...whereas the MTM will have lobing in the entire range of the two Ms plus the crossover range

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post #7 of 29 Old 08-28-2012, 04:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick240 View Post

...but if I've understood your, and others, comments correctly...
...the MT will have lobing only in the crossover region
...whereas the MTM will have lobing in the entire range of the two Ms plus the crossover range
Exactly.

http://www.audioholics.com/education/loudspeaker-basics/vertical-vs-horizontal-speaker-designs

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post #8 of 29 Old 08-28-2012, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick240 View Post


...but if I've understood your, and others, comments correctly...
...the MT will have lobing only in the crossover region
...whereas the MTM will have lobing in the entire range of the two Ms plus the crossover range

 

In theory.  However, the lobing is dependent on driver spacing and only significant when the driver spacing exceeds 1 or 1/2 wavelength (depending on who you believe).  Thus, "the two Ms" will have problems only at the upper end of their ranges and not at the lower end.  So, it comes out to the same issue:  Major lobing problems are generally in the crossover range, regardless of the number of drivers.


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post #9 of 29 Old 08-28-2012, 07:44 AM
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I suggest that you get the Cambridge Audio S50; it should be perfect for that setup, and it just happens to cost $200. You should no problems at all with that combination.


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Originally Posted by cowboys88 View Post

Need recommendations on a center channel to put between 2 definitive technology 800 speakers. I have $200.00 to spend.
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post #10 of 29 Old 08-28-2012, 01:13 PM
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I still say getting one of his L/R will still be the best match since it's the exact same speaker.

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post #11 of 29 Old 08-28-2012, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

I still say getting one of his L/R will still be the best match since it's the exact same speaker.

+1

I have SuperZero 2s and use one laid over on its side for a center and notice no issues whatsoever.

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post #12 of 29 Old 08-28-2012, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post


+1
I have SuperZero 2s and use one laid over on its side for a center and notice no issues whatsoever.

Not everyone hears the problems and that's OK.


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post #13 of 29 Old 08-28-2012, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Not everyone hears the problems and that's OK.
I'm ok, you're ok, we're all ok!biggrin.gif

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post #14 of 29 Old 08-29-2012, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

I'm ok, you're ok, we're all ok!biggrin.gif

We must all be lumberjacks! smile.gif
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post #15 of 29 Old 08-29-2012, 10:50 AM
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biggrin.gif

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5zey8567bcg

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post #16 of 29 Old 08-29-2012, 10:59 AM
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You need to call the manfacture to see if putting it on its side is acceptable, to many variables. But usally a center will have more mid rang drivers since it plays 80% or more if the voices. But whatever you gde get one that matches you have limited choices if you get another brand or a speaker that is not voiced the same it will stick out like a sore thumb.
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post #17 of 29 Old 08-29-2012, 11:25 AM
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This focus on using a bookshelf design and putting it on its side is interesting to me. People are so worried about lobing, when it is rather benign until well off axis. You are just trading one set of problems with another if you ask me...
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post #18 of 29 Old 08-29-2012, 01:40 PM
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You're not making any compromises if the tweeter radiates equally in all directions.

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post #19 of 29 Old 08-29-2012, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

You're not making any compromises if the tweeter radiates equally in all directions.

Nope.  In fact, it can be ameliorated with controlled dispersion but that kind of sophistication is beyond most middle-market products.


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post #20 of 29 Old 08-29-2012, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Nope.  In fact, it can be ameliorated with controlled dispersion but that kind of sophistication is beyond most middle-market products.
There are plenty of middle market controlled dispersion speakers. Or am I not understanding your response?

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post #21 of 29 Old 08-29-2012, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

There are plenty of middle market controlled dispersion speakers. Or am I not understanding your response?

The point I was making is that "if the tweeter radiates equally in all directions" it will not resolve the lobing problems associated with horizontally arrayed drivers.  In fact, controlled dispersion is possible way to ameliorate the problems.


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post #22 of 29 Old 08-29-2012, 08:58 PM
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The vertical null of a TM system is a phase alignment issue, it doesnt matter if it's CD or not. The best compromise for most people should be a vertical TM under the screen tilted back slightly.


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post #23 of 29 Old 08-29-2012, 09:10 PM
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The vertical null of a TM system is a phase alignment issue, it doesnt matter if it's CD or not. The best compromise for most people should be a vertical TM under the screen tilted back slightly.

Yup.


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post #24 of 29 Old 08-30-2012, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

The vertical null of a TM system is a phase alignment issue, it doesnt matter if it's CD or not. The best compromise for most people should be a vertical TM under the screen tilted back slightly.

Even then, it is still compromise. You are not completely on axis with the tweeter, and if you are then other seats will not be. More importantly, you lose sensitivity and gain distortion in a TM design over an MTM design. It is compromise no matter what unless you have a transparent screen with speakers exactly aligned, and usually those speakers will have a small line array (MTMMM) or need to be a well designed speaker to not run into compression/distortion at reference levels.
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post #25 of 29 Old 08-30-2012, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

The point I was making is that "if the tweeter radiates equally in all directions" it will not resolve the lobing problems associated with horizontally arrayed drivers.  In fact, controlled dispersion is possible way to ameliorate the problems.
ah, I see what you meant now. I guess my point was if the tweeter radiates equally in all directions, then laying it on its side would not make it sound differently, right? (at least I think so, I still have much to learn)

But I very much agree with you vis a vis the directivity and controlled dispersion.

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post #26 of 29 Old 08-30-2012, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

ah, I see what you meant now. I guess my point was if the tweeter radiates equally in all directions, then laying it on its side would not make it sound differently, right? (at least I think so, I still have much to learn).

As I understand laying the speaker horizontally doesn't create lobing, it just changes it from being in the vertical direction to the horizontal direction. Lobing happens because there are two source producing sound in the same frequency range and the two waves combine either cancelling or adding causing audible effects.

The point is that most people sit at the same vertical level when watching a movie but are horizontally dispersed in front of the screen.

Hence - vertical lobing is a non issue - horizontal lobing can be an issue with wide horizontal dispersion of people and/or particular speaker designs.

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post #27 of 29 Old 08-30-2012, 10:45 AM
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I have a similar question to that of the OP. I have a Boston Acoustics Soundware S 5.1 surround system. I don't much like the looks of the cube for the center channel, and I want to expand to a 7.1 system. As such, I'm looking for a dedicated center channel speaker that would match well to the Soundware S satelites. Then I could buy one more Soundware S and have a 7.1 system. Any recommendations?
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post #28 of 29 Old 08-30-2012, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pureiso View Post

Even then, it is still compromise. You are not completely on axis with the tweeter, and if you are then other seats will not be. More importantly, you lose sensitivity and gain distortion in a TM design over an MTM design. It is compromise no matter what unless you have a transparent screen with speakers exactly aligned, and usually those speakers will have a small line array (MTMMM) or need to be a well designed speaker to not run into compression/distortion at reference levels.

If you tilt the speaker back, you will be vertically on axis. Horizontally, a vertical TM configuration will have very wide dispersion at all frequencies but the very top of the tweeters response, which has nothing to do with vocal intelligibility. There are plenty of large woofer, high sensitivity 2-way designs available. A perfect example of this setup idea is the Klipsch Heresy



A smaller, cheaper option would be a Chase SHO-10 with a custom stand.

http://www.gwizpro.com/stands/proddetail.php?prod=SCStands


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post #29 of 29 Old 08-30-2012, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

If you tilt the speaker back, you will be vertically on axis. Horizontally, a vertical TM configuration will have very wide dispersion at all frequencies but the very top of the tweeters response, which has nothing to do with vocal intelligibility. There are plenty of large woofer, high sensitivity 2-way designs available. A perfect example of this setup idea is the Klipsch Heresy
A smaller, cheaper option would be a Chase SHO-10 with a custom stand.
http://www.gwizpro.com/stands/proddetail.php?prod=SCStands

Fair enough, many home theater setups will still have seats that could be easily off axis both vertically and horizontally even with an angled speaker. There are definitely some well designed 2-way speakers, some may be rather sensitive as well. However, using the same drivers in an MTM you will still have lower distortion especially in the vocal range that the midranges would be handling.
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