Did I make a speaker/receiver mismatch? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 18 Old 08-27-2012, 11:07 PM - Thread Starter
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I went against my usual norm of researching, by way of a great deal on a receiver and set of speakers. I picked up a set of Martin Logan Motion 12s and a Denon AVR2312.. and now reading up on things, its a nono to have a receiver which performs ideally at 8ohms and speakers that are rated 4ohms.

The speakers sound great, but should I be worried?

Thanks all
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post #2 of 18 Old 08-28-2012, 06:17 PM
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OK you like the way it sounds.
That is the only thing that really matters.
As long as you don't play the system to loud you won't have any issues.
If you keep turning up the volume and the sound starts to change and sound bad, stop and lower the volume.
If the AVR shuts itself off that's also a sign that you are playing too loud.
Chances are you are going to be fine.
Enjoy your new gear.

Regards,
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post #3 of 18 Old 08-30-2012, 08:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi all

So I left system on playing radio at -50dbs over night, and I woke up and the receiver was in a turn on/off loop. Every time I turn it back on, it plays for a few minutes and turns itself off. I'm assuming some circuit board is fried???
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post #4 of 18 Old 08-30-2012, 09:16 AM - Thread Starter
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I've tried resetting, with no luck. Looks like I will be heading back to return the receiver.

As I'm heading back anyways.. should I replace the receiver with something else? Or the speakers? (They were Best Buy purchases) Total price was about $1100. Any other suggestions?

Thanks all
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post #5 of 18 Old 08-30-2012, 09:26 AM
 
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Never hurts to get a 4ohm rated AVR and the salesperson should have matched your gear as that's part of their education.

That being said, see what you can do to find in an AVR that's 4ohm rated or return both the AVR and the Martin Logan's, pick up another 2312Ci and a pair of 8ohm matched speakers and be done with it.
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post #6 of 18 Old 08-30-2012, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markusontherock View Post

I've tried resetting, with no luck. Looks like I will be heading back to return the receiver.
As I'm heading back anyways.. should I replace the receiver with something else? Or the speakers? (They were Best Buy purchases) Total price was about $1100. Any other suggestions?
Thanks all

Do you have a clean wire hook-up to the speakers and receiver > did you hook-up with
bare wire, or used somthing like banana jacks. Sometimes bare wire strands cause a
receiver to shut down. Also, could be a defective receiver.

However, the Denon is also strong at 6 ohms. Some Martin Logan speakers can be a
challange for receivers.

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post #7 of 18 Old 08-30-2012, 10:52 AM
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Is -50 loud?

Regards,
Charlie

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post #8 of 18 Old 08-30-2012, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markusontherock View Post

I've tried resetting, with no luck. Looks like I will be heading back to return the receiver.
As I'm heading back anyways.. should I replace the receiver with something else? Or the speakers? (They were Best Buy purchases) Total price was about $1100. Any other suggestions?
Thanks all

Yes, big mistake. You have to match the speakers with the Receiver's ohm rating. Like BeeMan458 said the sales or tech support at best buy should have caught this while making this sale. Also for long term system stability ensure that the wattage ratings also match. A receiver with a low wattage feeding a high capacity speaker will also kill your speakers as you will keep pumping the receiver for a higher sound volume. Unless you know what you are doing try to play safe by ensuring your receiver wattage matches 100 to 120% of the speakers load handling capacity.
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post #9 of 18 Old 08-30-2012, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chashint View Post

Is -50 loud?

Loudness is subjective and will vary with your receiver and speaker combination. -50 does not mean much without knowing your system specs. Your ears are the best judge here.

If you are hearing distortion from your system then it is too loud for your amp/speaker combination even if you perceive the sound as low volume.

A high capacity amp can play a lot louder and sound more pleasant then a low wattage amp. When the music is clean with very little distortion your ears won't perceive it as loud. And a lower volume sound with distortion will be perceived as loud by your ears.
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post #10 of 18 Old 08-30-2012, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by markusontherock View Post

I've tried resetting, with no luck. Looks like I will be heading back to return the receiver.
As I'm heading back anyways.. should I replace the receiver with something else? Or the speakers? (They were Best Buy purchases) Total price was about $1100. Any other suggestions?
Thanks all

Do you have a clean wire hook-up to the speakers and receiver > did you hook-up with
bare wire, or used somthing like banana jacks. Sometimes bare wire strands cause a
receiver to shut down. Also, could be a defective receiver.

However, the Denon is also strong at 6 ohms. Some Martin Logan speakers can be a
challange for receivers.

This is the first thing I would also check. Given the relatively low volume (if I read -50db correctly), I didn't think it would cause the receiver to go into protection mode. But "-50db" don't tell us much. Not sure if autocalibration was performed, what the trim levels are etc...

Arent' those speakers relatively sensitive? I guess I don't understand impedance in relation to sensitivity as well as I thought. Perhaps there is no relation. Maybe someone could link a post or give a brief explanation on this, I think it could help the OP and others make more informed decisions and not be at the mercy of BB salespoeple.
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post #11 of 18 Old 08-30-2012, 12:55 PM
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-50 db tells us it was playing at 50 decibles lower than reference. So I would not think this was too loud no matter how the volume control is calibrated. On my AVR, Pioneer SC-25, you would hardly hear it. I usually watch television at -22 db; movies -18 db. I don't think it was the volume - some other problem.

Also, count me in as one who thinks the Denon 2312 you have is not adequate for ML 4ohm speakers. I would be looking for something rated into 4 ohms if you really like the ML's. Or stick with Denon and look at a 8 ohm set. Good luck and hope it all works out.

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post #12 of 18 Old 08-30-2012, 01:40 PM
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That AVR should handle the MLs without issue unless you get crazy and drive them full blast for hours. I demoed some Motion 12s at a BB Magnolia running off a lower end Yamaha without any issues and it was cranked up.

Then again, maybe the Yamahas can handle lower impedance better than Denon.

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post #13 of 18 Old 08-30-2012, 03:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the comments and suggestions.

No, at 50db the output isnt loud, not a whisper, but a very moderate level. My current connection is using the bare wires, so I will try connecting via banana plugs. Though, I'll still need to find a way to reset the receiver... unless changing the connection fixes the power interrupt issue?

The Denon 2312 is a 7.2 channel, 105 watts per channel. Confirmed that its to be used for 6-16ohm speakers, and the Martin Logans are 4ohms (something I didnt know about previously)

Bit strange that you need to properly pair up speakers and receivers with the correct ohms, but finding that rating on a receiver isnt easy! If you scroll through all the specs which are provided on a Best Buy website, you won't even find it!

Guess what makes my situation worse, is that I purchased it in the US, and am back home in Canada.. so I need to make a trip to make the exchange frown.gif
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post #14 of 18 Old 09-08-2012, 06:57 AM
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I've run Onkyo (809 and 818)and Yamaha (RX-A1000) receivers with 4 ohm Emotiva speakers (88db sensitivity) without problems. Might want to try something along those lines if you are set on keeping your speakers. Sensitivity is more important than Ohms I believe.
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post #15 of 18 Old 09-08-2012, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SB77 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by markusontherock View Post

I've tried resetting, with no luck. Looks like I will be heading back to return the receiver.
As I'm heading back anyways.. should I replace the receiver with something else? Or the speakers? (They were Best Buy purchases) Total price was about $1100. Any other suggestions?
Thanks all

Yes, big mistake. You have to match the speakers with the Receiver's ohm rating. Like BeeMan458 said the sales or tech support at best buy should have caught this while making this sale. Also for long term system stability ensure that the wattage ratings also match. A receiver with a low wattage feeding a high capacity speaker will also kill your speakers as you will keep pumping the receiver for a higher sound volume. Unless you know what you are doing try to play safe by ensuring your receiver wattage matches 100 to 120% of the speakers load handling capacity.

nope, sorry... that's simply not true... while some difficult loads (which are defined by more than simply nomimal impedance, there are other factors such as phase angles in play) may present an amplifier with something they cannot handle, the great majority will not run into this issue... primarily because they will never turn the volume knob far enough to the right for it to be an issue...

part 2 is not true at all....

imo/ime... if most posters who worry about "ohm ratings" had never discovered avs, they would never have worried about it, as it will never effect them... too many people jump into these threads with "advice" and "scare stories" that have no relevance in real world usage... also, some confuse their previous experience with tube amps and ohm taps (where it does matter) as being relevant with ss amps...

the avr has a very good way of telling you you are over stressing it... it will go into protection...

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post #16 of 18 Old 09-08-2012, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

nope, sorry... that's simply not true... while some difficult loads (which are defined by more than simply nomimal impedance, there are other factors such as phase angles in play) may present an amplifier with something they cannot handle, the great majority will not run into this issue... primarily because they will never turn the volume knob far enough to the right for it to be an issue...
That depends on the type of protection used by the amp/receiver. If it's a simple heat/current sensor that shuts the amp down when the current draw is excessive then how loud you're pushing it comes into play. But more sophisticated protection devices will detect too low an impedance load even with the volume quite low, even off in some cases. And some speakers present more problems than others even of the same rated impedance, so the safe route is to make sure the amp is rated for the load.

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post #17 of 18 Old 09-11-2012, 07:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Update: So I tried banana plugs, in the event they were shorting out the receiver, no luck. Every time the receiver is on for more then 5 seconds it goes into an on-off cycle. So I'll be making the drive to the US to return the receiver.. and possibly the speakers as well.

I noticed on the Canadian Best Buy site, they provide information on whether a receiver can drive 4ohm speakers (which I havent been able to find on the US site)

Looks like I will need to spend an additional $300 or so to get a receiver which can drive 4 ohm speakers. Onkyo tx-nr717 or Harman Kardon AVR2650.

So if I decide to keep the Martin Logan 12s ($400 for the pair) my receiver will cost about $1000. Total cost $1400

Any opinions if I'm better off returning the ML 12s as well, and sticking to a $600 receiver, and choosing another pair of 8ohm floor standing speakers ($400) and maybe picking up a center for $400?

Thanks all!
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post #18 of 18 Old 09-11-2012, 07:22 PM
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I guess it depends if you can you find some 8 ohm speakers that sound as good as the ML12's to you?

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