Do I need Floor Standing Speakers - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 18 Old 08-29-2012, 12:54 PM - Thread Starter
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I am in the process of buying an Onkyo 626 or the Denon comparable unit and I need new speakers.

I am looking at buying the Energy Classics 5.0 from Vanns at $248. I already have a decent Polk Sub I purchased years ago. I have an Antique pair of Polk Monitor Floor speakers(cant remember what number) that I am sure my wife will want me to get rid of. Do I need them? or will the Energy Classic give me what I need in sound? Should I upgrade to newer pair of Floorstanding speakers?

BTW my room is 15x15
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post #2 of 18 Old 08-29-2012, 01:27 PM
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The Energy speakers do not have large enough drivers to provide adequate bass for the front channels. Many people buy them and are soon looking for something with better performance.

You want front speakers that are specified to go down to 60 Hz or lower, -3db.

There ARE many monitor/bookshelf speakers that will produce enough bass for the front channels IF they are mounted on rigid solid stands or placed on top of tables or bookshelves that provide a solid foundation.

The Polk Monitor 40 speakers are under $200 per pair, and they would be a good place to start.

The Monitor 30 and CS20 speakers can be used to complete a 5-channel setup.

BTW, I don't seem to be finding anything on a Onkyo 626 receiver; does one exist? perhaps you mean the TX-NR-616
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post #3 of 18 Old 08-29-2012, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mglines View Post

I am in the process of buying an Onkyo 626 or the Denon comparable unit and I need new speakers.

I am looking at buying the Energy Classics 5.0 from Vanns at $248. I already have a decent Polk Sub I purchased years ago. I have an Antique pair of Polk Monitor Floor speakers(cant remember what number) that I am sure my wife will want me to get rid of. Do I need them? or will the Energy Classic give me what I need in sound? Should I upgrade to newer pair of Floorstanding speakers?

BTW my room is 15x15

I've used the Energy speakers in a room of similar size and found them lacking, but for lower volume listening they might be sufficient for you. I still use two as surrounds in that room but use larger speakers for the front three. For their size and cost they are decent, but you can only get so much out of small speakers like that. Floorstanders, or bookshelves on stands, are an option depending on your WAF and her need for floor space smile.gif

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post #4 of 18 Old 08-29-2012, 01:41 PM
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You do NOT need front speakers specified to perform down to 60hz. While there might be some benefit in large rooms, at very high volume levels or if you have a very high power amp/AVR it certainly is not NEEDED when using a sub.

That said, the energies are pretty small but depending on your preferences might be adequate for you.

If it were me I would step up to something a little larger if you can. I run 5 NHT Superzero 2.0s in a 1650 cubic ft room on 50watts/channel. They do pretty well for movies going louder than I care to listen to for an entire movie.

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post #5 of 18 Old 08-29-2012, 01:43 PM
 
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Check these BIC, FH-6T's out as they may be more appropriate for your needs. A pair delivered, are about $60.00 more than your stated budget.
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post #6 of 18 Old 08-29-2012, 06:44 PM
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If you are happy with the way the old Polk Audio Speakers sound I don't see any reason to upgrade or get rid of them. I don't think she should make you get rid of the Polks. I am sure that she has stuff that you want gone, but you let her keep it. She should let you keep the polk speakers if you enjoy the sound from them. Some of those older Polk Audio speakers sound pretty good. I had neigbors who had two polk audio floorstanding speakers hooked up to a vintage marantz receiver. It sounded so amazing and would vibrate the steps.
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post #7 of 18 Old 08-29-2012, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commsysman View Post

The Energy speakers do not have large enough drivers to provide adequate bass for the front channels. Many people buy them and are soon looking for something with better performance.
You want front speakers that are specified to go down to 60 Hz or lower, -3db.
There ARE many monitor/bookshelf speakers that will produce enough bass for the front channels IF they are mounted on rigid solid stands or placed on top of tables or bookshelves that provide a solid foundation.

Nope. There are just a few if you include speakers 24" H x 15" W x 12" D or so which are 3-ways or 2-way wave guides with 10-12"+ mid-bass drivers. A single 8" driver iis marginal for an 80Hz cross-over and has polar response issues unless paired with an extra beefy tweeter with a low cross-over point. Otherwise such speakers don't really exist for the listener, just for the interior designer (who wants small) and manufacturer (that wants a lower bill of materials cost
for bigger profits)

Output at the maximum linear excursion into full space for various representative drivers at 3 feet is as follows at 120, 80, 40, and 20Hz. Many drivers have less excursion and lower output. Subtract 3-5dB for living room dimensions and more for a larger space for the SPL at your listening position

Size Driver Sd (cm^2) x xmax (mm) 120Hz 80Hz 40Hz 20Hz
4 1/2" Seas W12CY001 50 x 3 89dB 82dB 70dB 58dB
5 1/4" Peerless 830873 88 x 3.5 95dB 88dB 76dB 64dB
6 1/4" Seas L16RN-SL 104 x 6 101dB 94dB 82dB 70dB
7" Seas W18EX001 126 x 5 102dB 95dB 83dB 71dB
8.5" Seas W22EX001 220 x 5 106dB 99dB 87dB 75dB
10" Peerless 830452 352 x 12.5 118dB 111dB 99dB 87dB

Good jazz recordings at 85dBC SPL average can have 107dB peaks at the speaker. Reference level home theater can get you to 110dB.
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post #8 of 18 Old 08-29-2012, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

You do NOT need front speakers specified to perform down to 60hz. While there might be some benefit in large rooms, at very high volume levels or if you have a very high power amp/AVR it certainly is not NEEDED when using a sub.

Right, although the consumer market wants bass extension and more of them will buy a 2-3 cubic foot speaker which extends to 20Hz than one which only goes to 80 so you generally need to buy 20Hz extension to get adequate output where you'll be using a speaker.
Quote:
That said, the energies are pretty small but depending on your preferences might be adequate for you.
If it were me I would step up to something a little larger if you can. I run 5 NHT Superzero 2.0s in a 1650 cubic ft room on 50watts/channel. They do pretty well for movies going louder than I care to listen to for an entire movie.

That's because of distortion. It really limits your listening levels.
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post #9 of 18 Old 08-30-2012, 05:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok someone just talked me into the Denon AVR-2312Ci

Now to do my speakers
I am looking to spend less than $500 bucks on the speakers.
I take it with this Receiver I can use the Energy 5.0 for my 2 rear wall, 2 front side wall and center channel.
Use my old Polk Sub and my Polk Floor Standing Monitor's for now and be fine in a room that is 15x15?
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post #10 of 18 Old 08-30-2012, 07:43 AM
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Sure you could use the Denon 2312 with the Energy speakers but you can do better.

If you've got $500 get something bigger than the Energy satellites. Try for some bookshelf speakers with 5.25" or 6.5" drivers if possible.

Get a couple pairs of these Pioneer bookshelf speakers at $99/pr
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117406

And add the matching C21 center on sale for $49
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117404

For the same $250 you get a much better system..

Now if you're looking to hang speakers on a wall then that would be a problem as the Pioneers are a bit bulky for that.

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post #11 of 18 Old 08-30-2012, 07:51 AM
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Another option for bookshelf speakers.

Polk RTi6 @ $129/pr. Buy two pair.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882290252&Tpk=polk%20rti6

Polk Csi3 center
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_107CSI3B/Polk-Audio-CSi3-Black-oak-finish.html?tp=189&kw=&org=pla&nw=g&crv=15802862185

You'll get 5 speakers under $400 shipped. And they might even match your current Polk towers.

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post #12 of 18 Old 08-30-2012, 11:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

Now if you're looking to hang speakers on a wall then that would be a problem as the Pioneers are a bit bulky for that.

the 2 front side and rear side will be hung so I might want to get something smaller to hang on the wall..

I listened to the Quintet by Klipsch at HH Gregg and they sounded pretty good.

Man finding a TV I liked was easy. This speaker business is tough!


BTW thank you for your help!
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post #13 of 18 Old 08-30-2012, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

Sure you could use the Denon 2312 with the Energy speakers but you can do better.

If you've got $500 get something bigger than the Energy satellites. Try for some bookshelf speakers with 5.25" or 6.5" drivers if possible.

Get a couple pairs of these Pioneer bookshelf speakers at $99/pr
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117406

And add the matching C21 center on sale for $49
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117404

For the same $250 you get a much better system..

Now if you're looking to hang speakers on a wall then that would be a problem as the Pioneers are a bit bulky for that.

Hmmm....I just clicked on those links and right now they're 150/pr plus 99 for a total of 400....sale over? With mounts like the AM-40 still might be a good way to go, altho those mounts aren't cheap.

OP, another consideration with wall mounting is if the speakers are rear-ported, not best to put up against a wall.

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post #14 of 18 Old 08-30-2012, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

Hmmm....I just clicked on those links and right now they're 150/pr plus 99 for a total of 400....sale over? With mounts like the AM-40 still might be a good way to go, altho those mounts aren't cheap.
OP, another consideration with wall mounting is if the speakers are rear-ported, not best to put up against a wall.

If you look carefully the SP-C21 center is $99 with a $50 off promo code knocking the price down to $49
$50 off w/ promo code EMCNBHB96, ends 9/3
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117404


The BS-41 bookshelf speakers are $149/pr with a $50 off promo code knocking the price down to $99/pr
$50 off w/ promo code EMCNBHB95, ends 9/3
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117406

Total for all five speakers will be $250 shipped.

Afro GT
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post #15 of 18 Old 08-31-2012, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

Hmmm....I just clicked on those links and right now they're 150/pr plus 99 for a total of 400....sale over? With mounts like the AM-40 still might be a good way to go, altho those mounts aren't cheap.
OP, another consideration with wall mounting is if the speakers are rear-ported, not best to put up against a wall.

If you look carefully the SP-C21 center is $99 with a $50 off promo code knocking the price down to $49
$50 off w/ promo code EMCNBHB96, ends 9/3
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117404


The BS-41 bookshelf speakers are $149/pr with a $50 off promo code knocking the price down to $99/pr
$50 off w/ promo code EMCNBHB95, ends 9/3
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117406

Total for all five speakers will be $250 shipped.

Momentary color blindness! See it now, didn't see it then, thanks!

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post #16 of 18 Old 08-31-2012, 10:31 AM
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If you are looking to hang your front left and right channel speakers on a wall, I would avoid rear ported speakers? What did you pay for your receiver? IMHO, and it may be too late, you might have been better off buying a cheaper 5.1 Denon that still has lots of features (including Audyssey MultiEQ) for under $200 and putting more money towards your speaker budget.

I would consider Infiity Primus. Amazon has a good sale right now:
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=primus+speakers

They are front ported. I would recommend the 163's for your mains and the 143 for surround duty.
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post #17 of 18 Old 08-31-2012, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

If you look carefully the SP-C21 center is $99 with a $50 off promo code knocking the price down to $49
$50 off w/ promo code EMCNBHB96, ends 9/3
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117404
The BS-41 bookshelf speakers are $149/pr with a $50 off promo code knocking the price down to $99/pr
$50 off w/ promo code EMCNBHB95, ends 9/3
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117406
Total for all five speakers will be $250 shipped.

I just ordered these exact speakers to replace my Energy take 5's. I've been more than happy with the Energys, but got a good deal on the Pioneers, so I thought I'd try them out. I'll post my personal preferences after this weekend when I get them hooked up to my new Yamaha 373.
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post #18 of 18 Old 08-31-2012, 02:59 PM
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speaking of amazon they are taxing more states recently. they tax mine tomorrow
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