Speakers less than 10K - preferably not veiled / smokey / dark / mysterious / laid-back / neutral - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 105 Old 09-04-2012, 07:48 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm looking for some suggestions on speakers whose sound signature is more forward. I do appreciate more neutral speakers but I find myself tending towards forward presentations.

I am open to monitors and floorstanders up to 10K. This inquiry is just about finding out what is out there so I'm not really looking for advice on speakers that fit room size / electronics etc.

Music preference is vocals / jazz / rap / reggae.
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post #2 of 105 Old 09-04-2012, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelkingdom View Post

I'm looking for some suggestions on speakers whose sound signature is more forward. I do appreciate more neutral speakers but I find myself tending towards forward presentations.
I am open to monitors and floorstanders up to 10K. This inquiry is just about finding out what is out there so I'm not really looking for advice on speakers that fit room size / electronics etc.
Music preference is vocals / jazz / rap / reggae.

In that price range you really should be visiting some of the audio shops near you and demoing brands such as:
- Revel
- Paradigm
- Triad
- PSB
- B&W
- etc

So many to choose from, but so much about speakers is personal preference.
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post #3 of 105 Old 09-04-2012, 08:32 AM
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Just get a brand you haven't owned. biggrin.gif

I know you already own B&W, so cross that out.

I forget what else you own. biggrin.gif

"Forward" and any terms commonly used are so subjective. To some people, "forward" could mean "accurate" or "real life" or "dynamic" sounding.

I like speakers that don't hold anything back or cover anything up. If the sound presentation is loud and in-your-face, then I want it in-your-face, not laid-back. If the sound is supposed to be cold and clinical, then I want it cold and clinical, not warm.

I assume that's what you want?
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post #4 of 105 Old 09-04-2012, 08:41 AM
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The title reminds me more of a woman than a speaker:)
Nuance likes this.
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post #5 of 105 Old 09-04-2012, 10:12 AM
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The KEF R900 is $5000 per pair and might float your boat.

The Gallo Acoustics CL-4 is another one that is excellent, for around $4000 or so (unparalleled IMO for vocals, and pretty amazing all-around).
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post #6 of 105 Old 09-04-2012, 11:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, I do love the B&W sound. I did not want to mention them because I know they are polarizing.

So,

PSB - I have a set of Imagine B that are great.

B&W - I have a set of 805N which are my favorites.

and some others...

I've auditioned Sonus Faber and Dynaudio with no emotional connection. I heard a 2K Klipsch tower that was a bit aggressive. I'm looking for top end magic - you know? Sorcery, like "how did they do that??" Also, I like the image to be close, not distant.
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post #7 of 105 Old 09-04-2012, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelkingdom View Post

Well, I do love the B&W sound. I did not want to mention them because I know they are polarizing.
So,
PSB - I have a set of Imagine B that are great.
B&W - I have a set of 805N which are my favorites.
and some others...
I've auditioned Sonus Faber and Dynaudio with no emotional connection. I heard a 2K Klipsch tower that was a bit aggressive. I'm looking for top end magic - you know? Sorcery, like "how did they do that??" Also, I like the image to be close, not distant.

So........what you want is the B&W 802D2, which is more than $10K. So you have to save up. biggrin.gif
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post #8 of 105 Old 09-04-2012, 04:27 PM
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diablo-rouge-thumb-1.jpg

Also check out the Focal Utopia III......Not the $190K 600 lbs Grande EM model, but the $13K Diablo model, which I might get.........I mean which you could get for $9K. biggrin.gif

I mean this one should sound just like the Grande EM sans the big bass, right? biggrin.gif
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post #9 of 105 Old 09-04-2012, 04:48 PM
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A forward sounding speaker will have an elevation (maybe even a peak) in the 1khz-4khz range, which is opposite of a BBC dip.


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post #10 of 105 Old 09-04-2012, 04:59 PM
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You want something in your face? Danley SH-50's. 4K each.

Dumb enough to spend lots of cash on this junk!
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post #11 of 105 Old 09-04-2012, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

You want something in your face? Danley SH-50's. 4K each.

Yeah, I was going to say something from the high efficiency speakers of Danley, JTR, Seaton, CHT, etc.

Loud and in your face like an army drill sergeant. biggrin.gif
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post #12 of 105 Old 09-04-2012, 05:05 PM
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There are so many interesting speakers to chose from these days. Only a few have been mentioned but there are dozens worth listening to. I would suggest going over to Audiogon.com if you haven't seen that site already and click on full range speakers. The site is not what it used to be but almost every brand you can think of is on display there, with prices, both new and used. Find one that grabs your eye and then find a place to go listen.
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post #13 of 105 Old 09-04-2012, 05:09 PM
 
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What, no love here for the Klipsch, RF-7 II's or are they considered to cheap when compared to the stated budget? Due to the horns, Klipsch are considered forward sounding speakers.

If I were to replace our speakers, I'd go with some Martin Logan, Theos, but they're not considered forward sounding speakers.
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post #14 of 105 Old 09-04-2012, 05:24 PM
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Focal. The Diablo monitors might be over that budget but then below it is the BEs.

I prefer Dynaudio but at times get an upgrade thought. Focal would be on the list if I ever have a need to try something totally different it might lead me to Diablo.

I do find Focal a bit lean and would use a sub but then again I use a sub with my C1s.

Nice budget and glad you are open to monitors in that range. Of course you should audition but I would try to squeeze in Focal.

Yummy:

http://hometheaterreview.com/focal-diablo-utopia-speakers-reviewed/

Rick

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post #15 of 105 Old 09-04-2012, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.SoftDome View Post

Focal. The Diablo monitors might be over that budget

Well, the MSRP is over the budget @ $13K. But the street price is around $9K. The dealer cost is about $7K.

I assumed the $10K budget is out the door actual price.
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post #16 of 105 Old 09-04-2012, 05:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

So........what you want is the B&W 802D2, which is more than $10K. So you have to save up. biggrin.gif

You are probably right. That's what the crystal ball says anyways. Or further up the B&W chain...?
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post #17 of 105 Old 09-04-2012, 05:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

diablo-rouge-thumb-1.jpg
Also check out the Focal Utopia III......Not the $190K 600 lbs Grande EM model, but the $13K Diablo model, which I might get.........I mean which you could get for $9K. biggrin.gif
I mean this one should sound just like the Grande EM sans the big bass, right? biggrin.gif

I have not heard Focal except their car audio coaxials.
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post #18 of 105 Old 09-04-2012, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by michaelkingdom View Post

I have not heard Focal except their car audio coaxials.
Treat yourself. Go find some Focals to listen to. They're worth the effort.

Craig

Lombardi said it:
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."


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post #19 of 105 Old 09-04-2012, 06:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Okay, just learned the multi-quote fucntion so sorry for the series of posts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shivaji View Post

There are so many interesting speakers to chose from these days. Only a few have been mentioned but there are dozens worth listening to. I would suggest going over to Audiogon.com if you haven't seen that site already and click on full range speakers. The site is not what it used to be but almost every brand you can think of is on display there, with prices, both new and used. Find one that grabs your eye and then find a place to go listen.

I'm familiar with Audiogon and I'm glad it is on the mend after what happened over the past nine months!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

Yeah, I was going to say something from the high efficiency speakers of Danley, JTR, Seaton, CHT, etc.
Loud and in your face like an army drill sergeant. biggrin.gif

Ah, a whole group of manufacturers I have never heard. Are these primarily music speaker brands or HT brands? ID or distributed?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

What, no love here for the Klipsch, RF-7 II's or are they considered to cheap when compared to the stated budget? Due to the horns, Klipsch are considered forward sounding speakers.
If I were to replace our speakers, I'd go with some Martin Logan, Theos, but they're not considered forward sounding speakers.

I did hear the Klipsch RF-7 and they were indeed forward. I liked them and I seem to remember they were straightforward, uncomplicated and nice and bright. I'd like to hear them again. The owner I heard them from was blasting AC/DC at murderous volumes so I don't think I heard their full capabilities.
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Originally Posted by Mr.SoftDome View Post

Focal. The Diablo monitors might be over that budget but then below it is the BEs.
I prefer Dynaudio but at times get an upgrade thought. Focal would be on the list if I ever have a need to try something totally different it might lead me to Diablo.
I do find Focal a bit lean and would use a sub but then again I use a sub with my C1s.
Nice budget and glad you are open to monitors in that range. Of course you should audition but I would try to squeeze in Focal.
Yummy:
http://hometheaterreview.com/focal-diablo-utopia-speakers-reviewed/
Rick

So, is Focal similar to B&W in the treble region? They have nice styling!
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post #20 of 105 Old 09-04-2012, 06:02 PM
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You might try them. I had Focal in a prior car and it was quite awesome. I have auditioned Diablo and they are fantastic. I have such an investment in my Dynaudio C1s and Confidence Center it's scary to think about a move. Those MSRP at $16k for L/R/C. Not sure I can take the hit and start again. Thank Gawd they don't suck but urges do happen.

The Diablo is a great speaker. Most of the Focal line is nice like Dynaudio.

Have fun. Pasted a review of Diablo in my post above.

Rick

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post #21 of 105 Old 09-04-2012, 06:08 PM - Thread Starter
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post #22 of 105 Old 09-04-2012, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelkingdom View Post

Okay, just learned the multi-quote fucntion so sorry for the series of posts.
I'm familiar with Audiogon and I'm glad it is on the mend after what happened over the past nine months!
Ah, a whole group of manufacturers I have never heard. Are these primarily music speaker brands or HT brands? ID or distributed?
I did hear the Klipsch RF-7 and they were indeed forward. I liked them and I seem to remember they were straightforward, uncomplicated and nice and bright. I'd like to hear them again. The owner I heard them from was blasting AC/DC at murderous volumes so I don't think I heard their full capabilities.
So, is Focal similar to B&W in the treble region? They have nice styling!

I use B&W CM5s in my bedroom setup. Not at the level of Diamonds but it is just bedroom and bedroom display. I do not personally find B&W at the level of sound quality as Focal or Dynaudio but it was an easy Best Buy purchase. Sound is subjective. You need to hear yourself.

As a starting point and not set in gold the sound you seek will most likely come from a metal dome tweeter over a soft dome tweeter. You listened to Dynaudio and Sonus Faber and both use a soft tweeter.

Focal makes their own drivers and arguably the best in the world after Dynaudio of course.!!!

Rick

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post #23 of 105 Old 09-04-2012, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelkingdom View Post

You are probably right. That's what the crystal ball says anyways. Or further up the B&W chain...?

Well, that would be a little obese on both the speakers and budget. biggrin.gif

My 802D2 street price brand new wasn't very far north of $10K. I've seen some dealers offer the 802D2 demo for $10K.

The 800D2 will set you back double. eek.gif

I'd rather get 2 pairs of the 802D2 than one pair of the 800.

Or three of the 802D2 + pair of Funk 18.0 TSAD unpowered subs ($4200).

My 802D2 thanked me for pairing them with dual Funk 18.0 subs. biggrin.gif

I think my 802D2 are NOT shy at all; they will scream in your face if that's what the material calls for. biggrin.gif
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post #24 of 105 Old 09-04-2012, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelkingdom View Post

Is this a distant relative? http://app.audiogon.com/listings/focal-jm-lab-mezzo-utopia-speakers--2

Yeah, like 2 generations ago. biggrin.gif

I think the latest Utopia are in their 3rd generation - Utopia III.
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post #25 of 105 Old 09-04-2012, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelkingdom View Post

I have not heard Focal except their car audio coaxials.

Their flagship Utopia Grande EM speakers are almost 600 lbs each and almost $200K/pr. eek.gif

Can you say "trickle down effect" ? biggrin.gif

Wilson Audio uses Focal beryllium tweeters. Of course, the Focal sound much better. biggrin.gif
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post #26 of 105 Old 09-04-2012, 06:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.SoftDome View Post

I use B&W CM5s in my bedroom setup. Not at the level of Diamonds but it is just bedroom and bedroom display. I do not personally find B&W at the level of sound quality as Focal or Dynaudio but it was an easy Best Buy purchase. Sound is subjective. You need to hear yourself.
As a starting point and not set in gold the sound you seek will most likely come from a metal dome tweeter over a soft dome tweeter. You listened to Dynaudio and Sonus Faber and both use a soft tweeter.
Focal makes their own drivers and arguably the best in the world after Dynaudio of course.!!!
Rick

Yes, the Sonus Fabers I heard had the Scan Speak Ring Radiator tweeter which was amazing. Detailed without being harsh. However, they were not to my taste. I think you are right that I am a metal tweeter guy. My B&Ws do start to hurt after a while but until they hurt, they sound beautiful. Do the C1s have a metal tweeter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

Well, that would be a little obese on both the speakers and budget. biggrin.gif
My 802D2 street price brand new wasn't very far north of $10K. I've seen some dealers offer the 802D2 demo for $10K.
The 800D2 will set you back double. eek.gif
I'd rather get 2 pairs of the 802D2 than one pair of the 800.
Or three of the 802D2 + pair of Funk 18.0 TSAD unpowered subs ($4200).
My 802D2 thanked me for pairing them with dual Funk 18.0 subs. biggrin.gif
I think my 802D2 are NOT shy at all; they will scream in your face if that's what the material calls for. biggrin.gif

So, if you had to choose between your Revels and your B&Ws and you could only have one pair, what would you keep?
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post #27 of 105 Old 09-04-2012, 06:33 PM
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Where are you located? I know the MSRP is more than your budget, but I think you could get a good deal from my local dealer on these. He has a pair currently available for audition and I assure you with 100% confidence that they will blow you away.

Marten Django It's the tower speaker in the bottom row of pictures.
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post #28 of 105 Old 09-04-2012, 07:04 PM
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If your budget is really $10k and given your comments / preferences the Usher BE10 ( metal dome tweeter) is certainly worth a listen. A second suggestion is the Dali Euphonia, not a metal tweeter but a hybrid tweeter. I've heard both and was awestruck! You need to demo these.
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post #29 of 105 Old 09-04-2012, 07:48 PM
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This is a great quest and I hope you get to listen to many but here is some of a list from my search. Some go beyond your budget. Do you just want stereo or will movies or multichannel music be important later?

Aerial Acoustics Model 7Ts

B&W 803D

Dynaudio Confidence C2

Dynaudio Sapphires

Focal Electra 1028 Be

Focal Electra 1038 Be

JBL Synthesis 1400 Array

Kef 203/2

Kef 205/2

Klipsch P-37F

Klipsch LaScala

Legacy Focus SE

Paradigm Signature 8

Pioneer S-1EX

Reference 3A Grand Veena

Revel Studio 2

Salk Soundscape 8

Thiel CS2.4

Main Kef: Reference 205/2 & 202/2c, Surrounds: Kef XQ40, Velodyne Optimum 12, Integra DHC 80.3, Oppo BDP-103, Bryston 4Bsst2, Parasound Halo A31. Second B&W: 685 (3), CCM618, Def Tech Powerfield 1500, Onkyo TX-NR1008, DBP 2010, Samsung BD-C7900, Zone 2 Klipsch AW650. Sitting still CCM616, Kef...
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post #30 of 105 Old 09-04-2012, 07:48 PM
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http://www.musicdirect.com/p-53437-wharfedale-jade-7-tower-speakers-pr.aspx
Not sure if you would like these or not, but thought I'd throw out the new Wharfdale Jade series speakers. I second the Dali's mentioned by stevensctt, as well as Legacy Audio. Hope you find the right speaker/sound you are looking for.

Cliff
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