How Do I Power B&W 802 Diamonds? Final Thoughts - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 16 Old 09-08-2012, 07:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks all from the original thread. Some good info, some not.

I purchased the 802 Diamonds (as they are called since the model change in 2011) from a B&M shop. I used the *****************.com quote to negotiate a 20% discount. Got another 2% off by paying by check instead of credit card, plus they were going to deliver it to my house (100 miles). The 6% state tax got me back to the web price with their shipping and membership fee. Was never really comfortable purchasing from an unathorized web dealer,

I called 7 dealers within a 100 mile radius. Everyone at first said that they can not price quote on the phone. Fine, I call some one else. I later received calls from 6 of the dealers. Some said that they can not discount or else they would lose their B&W dealership. Some gave me discounts. I negotiated a deal, the daeler called back later and said he couldn't sell in my area because af an agreement between dealers. After some conversation, I had to drive to his store to make the deal.

My power supplies are going to be emotiva 500W power blocks for the mains and an emotiva 200W xpa3 to power the front (B&W htm3) and sides (B&W 804 S). Cost is $2700 for1600 Watts. I am going to use the Onkyo tx-sr876 as a pre pro.

The source will be an Oppo blue ray player (SACD and DVD-A) for movies and surround sound music. Music will be provided by a home built computer using a 600 GB hdd and a creative X-Fi sound card. CD's were ripped using .wav files at 1440 kbs (cd standard). Albums were ripped at twice the CD standard. Sometimes the albums sounded better than a cd, sometimes not. CD's made in the 80's and "best of" were usually the cd's that lost out to the ripped albums. One of these days I'll have to do a comparison between a CD played on the Oppo versus the computer.

Everyone from the thread said that biamping the rear and front amps from the onkyo 7.1 receiver did nothing. Still not sure about that. Both Onkyo and B&W said it boosted the power to the mains. When I did a level check on the speakers using the receivers white noise signal, I got a 3 db difference from the mains (B&W 804 S) and the center (B&W HTM3). These speakers have identical woofers, mid range, tweeter and the same sensitivity.
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post #2 of 16 Old 09-08-2012, 08:07 AM
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My final thought is........ I really like your speakers. wink.gif
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post #3 of 16 Old 09-08-2012, 10:55 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

My final thought is........ I really like your speakers. wink.gif


How do you like your B&W's and how do they rate versus your other speakers? Why did you go with them, because I thought you said hey tested poorly both on and off axis??
Billy p likes this.
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post #4 of 16 Old 09-08-2012, 11:31 AM
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Smallpox,

Congrats on the new gear, bet it will sound incredible. Now the good part, enjoy :-) Or you can go obsessive compulsive on tweak tweak tweak, measurement gear, treatments, tweak more, etc... :-)

I'm curious why you did not go with the XPR-5, mind sharing your thoughts?
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post #5 of 16 Old 09-08-2012, 01:19 PM - Thread Starter
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I didn't go with the XPR5 because it requires a dedicated 120 amp line and has a plug that is similar to your clothes dryer. I asked the same question to emotiva. They said that 2000 watts requires a dedicated line. I may ask the question again, since the other amps are not available till the end of the month.
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post #6 of 16 Old 09-08-2012, 04:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smallpox View Post

I didn't go with the XPR5 because it requires a dedicated 120 amp line and has a plug that is similar to your clothes dryer. I asked the same question to emotiva. They said that 2000 watts requires a dedicated line. I may ask the question again, since the other amps are not available till the end of the month.

Not sure what you were told but their website has a different take.

"The XPR-5 requires a 20 Amp circuit and standard IEC 20 Amp outlet (which is different than a 15 Amp outlet).If you don’t have a proper circuit and outlet, we recommend you have one installed by a qualified electrician.We recommend that the XPR-5 be plugged into its own dedicated 20 Amp circuit."

A 20A outlet will take either a standard plug or a 20A plug.

5A084_AS01?$productdetail$

I have one of these 20A outlets installed in our home for safety purpose (plug-in bathroom heater on a GFI) as we have standard 20A house circuit breakers. FWIW, a 240V dryer circuit is simply a pair of 50A, 120V circuits. The point of that little tang is to tell the user, "Hey, this is a 20A plug and it will suck the life out of your outlet." Hence why you need a dedicated 20A circuit, so the appliance has full command of the available 20A.

In real terms, depending on how hard it is to run the cable, it will run between $200.00 and $700.00 to have the circuit run and you want to have a permit pulled for your safety. FYI, if no permit is pulled and your insurance company finds out, you'll have your homeowners insurance voided. Not good.

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post #7 of 16 Old 09-08-2012, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smallpox View Post

I didn't go with the XPR5 because it requires a dedicated 120 amp line and has a plug that is similar to your clothes dryer. I asked the same question to emotiva. They said that 2000 watts requires a dedicated line. I may ask the question again, since the other amps are not available till the end of the month.

20 A, not 120 A, but yes a dedicated line. The plug is the same size as a normal 15 A plug but does have a "sideways" blade like your dryer (but the plug is much smaller, and 120 V instead of 240 V).

You would probably be better off with an extra dedicated line for all that power anyway, whether a pair of XPA-1's and an XPA-3 or XPR-5, and all the other stuff in the room. A standard 15 A line only supports 1800 W max nominally, but you are unlikely to push the limits during normal operation.


Edit: I see BeeMan said much the same whilst I was writing...

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #8 of 16 Old 09-08-2012, 04:24 PM
 
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Yeah, what DonH50 posted. biggrin.gif
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post #9 of 16 Old 09-08-2012, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smallpox View Post

When I did a level check on the speakers using the receivers white noise signal, I got a 3 db difference from the mains (B&W 804 S) and the center (B&W HTM3). These speakers have identical woofers, mid range, tweeter and the same sensitivity.

Yes but the cabinet sizes are different so that alone will contribute to differences in performance and also their placement in the room contributes as well and can do so in a big way. I have seen my left front and right front get set to separate levels both with the automatic level adjustments in my Lexicon or when I use the ole Radio Shack sound level meter. This was the case with my Paradigm Studio 100's and my 802 Diamonds and I have calibrated many times, whenver I change the layout of the gear or add items to the room which could affect the sound. Sometimes the center was set to the same level as either the left or the front and sometimes it gets set to a different level. When I bi-amped my 802's there was no noticeable increase/decrease in the levels than when the speakers were not bi-amped.

Congrats on the speakers by the way biggrin.gif You'll have to post some pictures either here or in the main B&W owners thread.

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post #10 of 16 Old 09-08-2012, 06:55 PM - Thread Starter
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The biamping thing will be a moot point.

The dedicated 20 A line would be a lot of $, since the breaker is in the basement, and my man cave is on the second floor in the opposite corner. I can not see a scenario where I am drawing more than a 1000W.

Unfortunately, the speakers in "rosenut" and the emotiva amps will not be available until the end of the month.

The other reason I went with the monoblocks and the xpr 3 is that they will be right at the recomended power limits for my speakers.
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post #11 of 16 Old 09-08-2012, 08:21 PM
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You'll probably be fine. Worst-case an electrician would probably run a conduit outside. Personally I would also have chosen the monoblocks over the XPR, and put the amps on the floor behind the 802's. Passive bi-amping offers no audible benefit IMO but I have never tried it (have run active bi-amping many times). If there is a level difference something ws not calibrated properly.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #12 of 16 Old 09-09-2012, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Breako View Post

How do you like your B&W's and how do they rate versus your other speakers? Why did you go with them, because I thought you said hey tested poorly both on and off axis??

Yes, there's no hiding that embarrassing fact regarding the on-axis and especially off-axis response of B&W speakers. Even the Infinity P363 has better on-axis and off-axis. biggrin.gif

Perhaps it's because of the 1st order crossover B&W uses, which are not as great as the 4th order crossovers used in the KEF Reference, Revel Salon2, Linkwitz Orion, Philharmonic 3, PSB, etc. Yes, I would have liked B&W using 4th order Linkwitz-Riley XO.

But.......let's be real. If B&W speakers totally suck, Lucasfilm, Abbey Roads, and everyone else would not buy them and B&W would be out of business.

I think the 802D2 sound great in my room paired with dual Funk 18.0 subs, ATI AT2004 amp and Denon 3310, in 2.1 stereo mode, bypassing any RC like Audyssey and any EQ or DSP modes, playing the music I listen to.

To say one speaker sounds better than another is pure personal preference. 100% subjective. And we all know the room acoustics and speaker placement play a part in SQ.

Oh, I think the 802D2 look really, really great. biggrin.gif
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post #13 of 16 Old 09-09-2012, 10:37 AM
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I tried a quick search but I could not find it but I remember a review of I believe the 800 where they acknowledged while the measurements were not perfect they said there must have been a lot of listening conducted as part of the development. In my search for that Article I saw one on the 802D2 by Aron Garrecht for Soundstage where he ended up buying them for his Reference Speakers. A few years back he purchased the Kef XQ40s as his Reference replacing his 804 S. I certainly would not refuse any 80XD2s as a gift. biggrin.gif

Edit: Aron did acknowledge the mids were not fully neutral due to the Kevlar mids but thought as a whole, they were better than the Wilson Audio Sophia 3 even though the Wilson had better bass. In spite of all this, B&W just seems to get it right.

Main Kef: Reference 205/2 & 202/2c, Surrounds: Kef XQ40, Velodyne Optimum 12, Integra DHC 80.3, Oppo BDP-103, Bryston 4Bsst2, Parasound Halo A31. Second B&W: 685 (3), CCM618, Def Tech Powerfield 1500, Onkyo TX-NR1008, DBP 2010, Samsung BD-C7900, Zone 2 Klipsch AW650. Sitting still CCM616, Kef...
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post #14 of 16 Old 05-27-2013, 07:02 AM
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Smallpox - I'm in a similar place that you were in when starting this thread and getting ready to purchase a set of 802's. I'm interested in upgrading a new "listening system" to 802 or 803 diamonds as well as deciding on how to power them over the next several months while the room is being finished. The 802 speakers blew me away when listening at the local dealer. I'm hooked and hoping they'll fit the room and my within my budget. I've found an unbelievable amount of useful information on product & setup on this forum. I want to negotiate a good deal from an authorized dealer if I can't find a great pair and deal locally.
I could use some advice on how you were able to negotiate your best deal as mentioned in the beginning of the thread. You started with a non-authorized online retailer offering 20% off. Can you enlighten me further? I've been down the road of, "We don't quote pricing on the phone etc." and liked your thought process and execution on the 802 purchase. Driving to get the best deal - after - knowing what I'll get when I get there, is no issue for me either.
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post #15 of 16 Old 05-27-2013, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweengolly View Post

Smallpox - I'm in a similar place that you were in when starting this thread and getting ready to purchase a set of 802's. I'm interested in upgrading a new "listening system" to 802 or 803 diamonds as well as deciding on how to power them over the next several months while the room is being finished. The 802 speakers blew me away when listening at the local dealer. I'm hooked and hoping they'll fit the room and my within my budget. I've found an unbelievable amount of useful information on product & setup on this forum. I want to negotiate a good deal from an authorized dealer if I can't find a great pair and deal locally.
I could use some advice on how you were able to negotiate your best deal as mentioned in the beginning of the thread. You started with a non-authorized online retailer offering 20% off. Can you enlighten me further? I've been down the road of, "We don't quote pricing on the phone etc." and liked your thought process and execution on the 802 purchase. Driving to get the best deal - after - knowing what I'll get when I get there, is no issue for me either.

All depends on how hard the dealer is willing to work to win your business and stay alive in this poor economy.

Some dealers will not even try. Nothing you can do about that.
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post #16 of 16 Old 05-27-2013, 11:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Same here. Called around and got a wink, wink quote of $12000 as long as I went to the shop and did the paper work there. Most dealers gave me the can't sell below retail or they lose their franchise. Got mine in Canton, Ohio. The web site that quoted the discounted price had reviews that indicated that they were a scam site.

I powered mine with Emotiva UPA 1, 500 watt monoblocks (wait until they do their 10% off sales) and an Integra 80.3 pre/pro (offered the shop $1800 and they took it).

I have had the set up for ~ 6 months now and am very satisfied with my investment.
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