**The Official Chane M&C 'Arx' owner's thread (A1, A1b, A2, A2b, A3, A5, etc.)** - Page 13 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #361 of 759 Old 12-12-2013, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Jon Lane View Post


I see: Someone whose motives you'd assumed and impugned is not actually a downright nuts industry slave.

Clarification accepted.

It's not a question of power. What "wake them up" means is something their users find on a regular basis as they experiment. You'd have to give it a try yourself because I can't describe sound using words and therefore won't engage semantic speculation about it.

What affects the sound of a speaker is its placement and the room acoustics in which it is placed. Of course the room calibration software that is employed in AV preamplifiers also affects it. If these are the things that wake them up, then I'm on board. It sounded to me like someone was accusing of you of promulgating the belief that unused potential amplifier power could affect the sound of speakers. While I think that is what the poster meant, I see that it is not a fair statement. Congratulations on winning the speaker shootout conducted by the Home Theater Shack group.
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post #362 of 759 Old 12-12-2013, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by FMW View Post

What affects the sound of a speaker is its placement and the room acoustics in which it is placed. Of course the room calibration software that is employed in AV preamplifiers also affects it. If these are the things that wake them up, then I'm on board.

Everything affects sound, not least of which are first arrival influencers like sources and electronics that impress themselves on the output well before the room gets involved. There's a lot of history and meat to the subject I can't get into, but countless accept that a good loudspeaker should provide a relatively transparent window onto things upstream of itself.
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It sounded to me like someone was accusing of you of promulgating the belief that unused potential amplifier power could affect the sound of speakers. While I think that is what the poster meant, I see that it is not a fair statement.

All other things being equal in an amplifier, at any linear operating level more power is not going to be audible if all its doing is standing by. Given that all things are never equal in differing amplification, it's entirely likely that moving from Amp A to a more powerful Amp B will alter the sound, many times perhaps for the better.
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Congratulations on winning the speaker shootout conducted by the Home Theater Shack group.

Thank you very much. Contact us privately if you're interested to talk more.

Jon Lane
Chane Music & Cinema
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post #363 of 759 Old 12-12-2013, 03:33 PM
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No, I'll go away and leave you with the cool aid. Best of luck to you.
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post #364 of 759 Old 12-12-2013, 04:56 PM
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So you're intimating that the Denon X2000 will be used by 99% of the people? That's a bit of stretch, wouldn't you say? Since just a single receiver wasn't recommended by Jon it's hard to see how that can be extrapolated to virtually every other unit that people will buy.

Not at all, I was referring to a post Jon made to the gentleman who was testing the three brands of speakers in this thread. He said the Arx A5 were not intended for a $500 or even $900 AVR. I've read through this thread and others, and I think Jon is a stand-up guy and very knowledgeable. I wasn't trying to criticize, just thought it was a curious comment.
The $300 bookshelves are less efficient, what amplification is recommended for those? I really like the Arx brand and have them on my short list for future speakers, but I doubt I will have separates any time soon.
Again, no disrespect was intended to Jon or Arx. I think it is great to have an owner/designer so involved here and the value of the speakers seems to be great. And thanks to Jon for your comments as well, what you say makes a lot of sense. (I'm posting from my phone and don't want to do a lot of multi-quoting lol)
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post #365 of 759 Old 12-12-2013, 08:30 PM
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I've ran the A5s off a lower end Onkyo 605 ($600 back in 2007) receiver a mid/high Onkyo 818 ($1000 a year or so ago) and a Onkyo 818 with Parasound Halo A23 amp and could not tell a difference at all between any of them.
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post #366 of 759 Old 12-12-2013, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post

I've ran the A5s off a lower end Onkyo 605 ($600 back in 2007) receiver a mid/high Onkyo 818 ($1000 a year or so ago) and a Onkyo 818 with Parasound Halo A23 amp and could not tell a difference at all between any of them.

I just ordered a pair of A5s from Jon and told him I planed to run them with a new Denon X2000 receiver and he mentioned that it wasn't the best option. I just couldn't afford to get anything better because I highly valued the bells and whistled packed into the denon (if I got a different avr i would just need to spend more money to get those features). I think Jon was just worried that the lower end AVR (it's not even that low end) wasn't going to be able to have the current supply necessary (he mentioned NAD might be better, among other brands too because of higher current output). Honestly since I already have the Denon I figured I will just give it a shot and see how it goes. I am hoping for the best.

What receivers are most of you running?
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post #367 of 759 Old 12-13-2013, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by carter840 View Post

I just ordered a pair of A5s from Jon and told him I planed to run them with a new Denon X2000 receiver and he mentioned that it wasn't the best option. I just couldn't afford to get anything better because I highly valued the bells and whistled packed into the denon (if I got a different avr i would just need to spend more money to get those features). I think Jon was just worried that the lower end AVR (it's not even that low end) wasn't going to be able to have the current supply necessary (he mentioned NAD might be better, among other brands too because of higher current output). Honestly since I already have the Denon I figured I will just give it a shot and see how it goes. I am hoping for the best.

What receivers are most of you running?


Right now, I have a Denon 2113ci ( very similar to your Denon X2000) running my A5's ...........I don't listen at "wake-the-neighbors" volumes and I think they sound pretty good.........but I also have been following this thread ( and this topic in general) and am thinking about upgrading to an AVR with preouts so I can see if there is any difference ( especially as I convert my system from a 2.1 to a 5.1 or 5.2 system in the next year). Then I see GTSuper's comment concerning this, and I wonder some more..........
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post #368 of 759 Old 12-13-2013, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by padgman1 View Post

Right now, I have a Denon 2113ci ( very similar to your Denon X2000) running my A5's ...........I don't listen at "wake-the-neighbors" volumes and I think they sound pretty good.........but I also have been following this thread ( and this topic in general) and am thinking about upgrading to an AVR with preouts so I can see if there is any difference ( especially as I convert my system from a 2.1 to a 5.1 or 5.2 system in the next year). Then I see GTSuper's comment concerning this, and I wonder some more..........

It makes me wonder if I should return my AVR to AV Science and order the X3000. I will give them a call and see what they can do in terms of return shipping and a price on the X 3000.
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post #369 of 759 Old 12-13-2013, 01:42 PM
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95w vs. 105w @ 8ohms. X3000 looks to have a slightly more powerful power supply...but all the rest are just 'if you need them' type features. Inaudible.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1465528/the-official-2013-denon-e-series-x-series-avr-model-owners-thread-faq/0_100#post_23134186

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post #370 of 759 Old 12-13-2013, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by ousooner2 View Post

95w vs. 105w @ 8ohms. X3000 looks to have a slightly more powerful power supply...but all the rest are just 'if you need them' type features. Inaudible.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1465528/the-official-2013-denon-e-series-x-series-avr-model-owners-thread-faq/0_100#post_23134186
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Originally Posted by carter840 View Post

It makes me wonder if I should return my AVR to AV Science and order the X3000. I will give them a call and see what they can do in terms of return shipping and a price on the X 3000.



Update (edited)
Yeah, my mistake. I was thinking the X3000 had pre-outs for the mains, but I was wrong. You don't get that on the denon line until the X4000, which is way out of my budget. I think I am just going to stick with the X2000, the spending has to stop somewhere. Can someone tell me if the amp isn't powerful enough and I crank up the volume what would I hear to indicate that something is not right? I plan to test once I get the speakers and new AVR settup (late next week). Also for the record I doubt doubt what Jon was saying for a second, I just was curious if the improvement in sound would even be noticed by a novice like myself, and if it was worth the increase in cost to solve.
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post #371 of 759 Old 12-13-2013, 02:31 PM
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You'll be just fine..
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Panny 65st60 / Denon X1000 / EMP e55ti / EMP e56ci / EMP e5bi / (2) e1010i
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post #372 of 759 Old 12-18-2013, 05:45 PM
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Hi: I currently own Magnepan 3.7's, but after reading all the positive comments on the Arx 5's, I'm considering replacing them with the 5's. I'm thinking the 5's will do the high frequencies competitively to the Maggie's and the bass better, particularly for home theater use, my primary utilization. I'd welcome any thoughts, comments or suggestions. Thanks
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post #373 of 759 Old 12-19-2013, 10:18 AM
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Do you have a sub..? Aren't those like 7-8x the price? lol

Panny 65st60 / Denon X1000 / EMP e55ti / EMP e56ci / EMP e5bi / (2) e1010i
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post #374 of 759 Old 12-20-2013, 05:28 PM
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Yes, in fact, I have 2 subs (Rythmik sealed 15's). The Maggie's are tremendous music speakers, but I'd like to have more grunt in the bass, and the Arx 5's would do that. I also like the Ascend Sierra towers, but I think the Arx 5's are very competitive sonically and much cheaper. I love the ribbon on the Maggie's, but the Arx has tjis thpe of tweeter too, plus better bass. Believe me, I've studied this for hours, and the sense I get is actually that the Arx 5's may outperform my Maggie's for a fraction of the price. Just looking for a little reassurance!
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post #375 of 759 Old 12-20-2013, 11:36 PM
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Anyone driving these with a pioneer 1120 or similar? I heard talk of needing expensive amps, but that doesn't make a ton of sense to me with these being somewhat of a budget option. Spending a ton on electronics has never appealed to me,but maybe I need to change that thought.
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post #376 of 759 Old 12-21-2013, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by ghettob170 View Post

Anyone driving these with a pioneer 1120 or similar? I heard talk of needing expensive amps, but that doesn't make a ton of sense to me with these being somewhat of a budget option. Spending a ton on electronics has never appealed to me,but maybe I need to change that thought.

I'm driving the A5's with a 110wpc Pioneer and everything works great.
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post #377 of 759 Old 12-22-2013, 09:11 AM
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I'm driving the A5's with a 110wpc Pioneer and everything works great.

Alright, sounds great. THanks for the info.
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post #378 of 759 Old 12-23-2013, 10:21 AM
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I'm driving the A5's with a 110wpc Pioneer and everything works great.

Just put my order in for the A5's. Pretty excited.
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post #379 of 759 Old 12-23-2013, 10:44 AM
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Just put my order in for the A5's. Pretty excited.

Just noticed you were the guy from the Energy RC thread tongue.gif I thought for a second their I had convinced 2 people to make a purchase biggrin.gif You are going to absolutely love them, mark my words biggrin.gif
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post #380 of 759 Old 12-24-2013, 03:38 AM
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I've had my Arx A3rx-c and A2rx-c for about a 1.5 weeks now. I absolutely love them. Went from a 7.2 set up to a 5.1 set up. I'm eventually going back to a 7.2 in the future.

Prior setup:
Front L/R: Polk Audio Monitor 70 II
Center: Polk Audio Monitor 25c
Surround: Jamo S426
Surround back: Energy EF-500
Sub: Dual Klipsch RW-12D
AVR: Pioneer SC-1522-K

Current setup:
Front L/R: Arx A3rx-c
Cenert: Arx A2rx-c
AVR: Pioneer SC-1522-K

Tomorrow I will be receiving a pair of A3 for my surround speakers. I am still waiting on shipping confirmation for my PSA-XV15.
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post #381 of 759 Old 12-26-2013, 01:15 PM
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I am not a guy who writes reveiws but wanted to give back to this forum as i came to know about ARX through AVS forum.

 

Have been playing Ar2x-c LCR's in the front for 2 weeks now and it sounds just amazing. Have about 20hrs into it and we (I and my wife) could hear the distinct difference in sound and clarity and it keeps improving as hrs gets in to the speakers and all of this to our untrained ears.. Extremely happy so far.

 

Have FL & FR 4 feet away from the Center and the soundage is awsome.

 

Current Setup = 5.1

 

FL / CC / FR = Ar2x-C

Sorrounds = Energy CB-5 ( Will replace it with A4 when its available)

Sub = Outlaw M8

AV receiver = Yamaha Rx-v773

PS3

46" Sony Bravia 3D TV

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post #382 of 759 Old 12-26-2013, 01:22 PM
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I am not a guy who writes reveiws but wanted to give back to this forum as i came to know about ARX through AVS forum.

Have been playing Ar2x-c LCR's in the front for 2 weeks now and it sounds just amazing. Have about 20hrs into it and we (I and my wife) could hear the distinct difference in sound and clarity and it keeps improving as hrs gets in to the speakers and all of this to our untrained ears.. Extremely happy so far.

Have FL & FR 4 feet away from the Center and the soundage is awsome.

Current Setup = 5.1

FL / CC / FR = Ar2x-C
Sorrounds = Energy CB-5 ( Will replace it with A4 when its available)
Sub = Outlaw M8
AV receiver = Yamaha Rx-v773
PS3
46" Sony Bravia 3D TV

Congrats. I found out about Arx from the Home Theater Shack forum. They did a $1000 speaker review, and the A5 won. At the moment I am trying to decide if I should buy an amp to power my surround A3 towers.
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post #383 of 759 Old 12-26-2013, 04:37 PM
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Congrats. I found out about Arx from the Home Theater Shack forum. They did a $1000 speaker review, and the A5 won. At the moment I am trying to decide if I should buy an amp to power my surround A3 towers.

If you already have an AVR, try it first. Based on your listening levels and type of music, that may be sufficient. I think most people with ARX speakers are perfectly happy with their AVR. Some upgrade to an amp.
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post #384 of 759 Old 12-27-2013, 07:24 AM
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I wouldn't get too caught up with getting an extra amp either, I went from a $200 Denon receiver(75x5) to an Emotiva UMC 200 and UPA 500 and there are no differences in sound at the same levels. Where there is a difference is the emotiva allows a 4th order high pass crossover to the mains which noticeably blends in better with the sub, the alternative with a receiver is to plug the port which will combine for a 4th order roll off so no big deal. Also the UMC 200 has a parametric EQ which is very nice especially for the sub so that combined with the much higher build quality and I'm happy I went that route but any receiver will power the ARX line just fine so I wouldn't worry about that.
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post #385 of 759 Old 12-27-2013, 07:37 AM
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Congrats. I found out about Arx from the Home Theater Shack forum. They did a $1000 speaker review, and the A5 won. At the moment I am trying to decide if I should buy an amp to power my surround A3 towers.

Congrats to you too.

 

Like the other person said, try it out with your AVR . I currently have them set up in my living room which is 18x20x12 open at one end connecting a 18x10x12 dinning space and with this room size, yamaha is able to supply to play it loud (beyond my audible level) without clipping  and while doing so my neighbours came knocking my door to check whats going on. But i must tell you that i am hitting -10db to -15db volume level in my AVR for my room size in a 5.1 setup.

 

Since you A3's for sorrounds, try testing and you may just be fine and do share your experience. I have the same question that you have on the need of additional amps when i go for 7.1 setup in the future. But at this point i dont see a need.

 

Jon emphasis on high current models powering  the speakers. My Yamaha is definetly not one among them. I plan to experiment in the future with an amp for the fronts and let AVR handle the sorrounds. But for now i am still caliberating and fine tuning the setup and exploiting the AVR that i have in hand.

 

If possible test your speakers once it has say 10-15hrs of break in time with Master and Commander blu-ray , storm sequence ( if you havent already) . I watched 2 days back for the first time and i was just blown away and jumped and screamed in joy as if i was a kid even with my tiny CB-5 doing sorround duty. With A3's in the sorround it should be even better and thoroughly enjoyable.

 

Good luck !!

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post #386 of 759 Old 12-27-2013, 10:04 AM
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The amps only provide a steady amount of power to your speakers. So, I don't believe the sound will be better or worse. However, as you increase the volume your AVR alone won't have enough power to drive all the speaker and clipping will occur. If you have more power then you can increase the volume and clipping won't happen unless it surpasses the amps capabilities.

When I'm by myself I like to play music at reference levels. So, I think I'm going to need an external amp for my surrounds.
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post #387 of 759 Old 12-27-2013, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New 2 HT View Post


Current Setup = 5.1

FL / CC / FR = Ar2x-C
Sorrounds = Energy CB-5 ( Will replace it with A4 when its available)
Sub = Outlaw M8
AV receiver = Yamaha Rx-v773
PS3
46" Sony Bravia 3D TV

Three A2's across the front? How do you have them placed? Upright or on their side? Did they recommend that you rotate the tweeter if they're upright?
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post #388 of 759 Old 12-27-2013, 01:34 PM
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Yes. Left and Right's are upright with tweeter position rotated. Center is on the sides with no change to the tweether position.

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post #389 of 759 Old 12-28-2013, 10:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gmash View Post

It does seem odd to design a budget speaker line that isn't suitable for use with the receivers than 99% of people will be using to power them.

I have used a Lepai 2020+ 10w amp to power several Arx models, including the new A3rx-c's and an A2rx-c, with no trouble. They don't "need" a better amplifier to make great music...but they do benefit (as does any quality loudspeaker design) from quality amplification.

What Jon may have been getting at, is that from an amplifier design standpoint, some low-level AVR rated "110 watts RMS x 7 channels" into 6 ohms when it's power supply is only capable of supplying 250VA isn't likely to be optimal....MAYBE that's not the best choice to run quality speakers. I don't think that is an inaccurate or unfair statement to make and I happen to agree with it.

Like I said, they don't need better amplification....but that can be a legitimate upgrade path. There is a middle ground of performance between a $299 AVR and a $5k+ component system, in my experience.

Arcam AVR300, Panny BDT-500, Toshiba SD-9200 CD transport, Vizio XVT 55" LED/LCD (full direct-backlit w/ local dimming), Arx A5 & A3rx-c Mains, Arx A2rx-c center, HSU VTF-15h, BJC ten white w/ ultrasonically welded connectors.
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post #390 of 759 Old 12-28-2013, 10:19 AM - Thread Starter
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For the thread, I'm now breaking-in some A3rx-c's and an A2rx-c. I'll report back in a few weeks once I've developed some listening impressions.

Teaser: they are REALLY smooth so far compared to the first gen A3/A2.

Arcam AVR300, Panny BDT-500, Toshiba SD-9200 CD transport, Vizio XVT 55" LED/LCD (full direct-backlit w/ local dimming), Arx A5 & A3rx-c Mains, Arx A2rx-c center, HSU VTF-15h, BJC ten white w/ ultrasonically welded connectors.
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