**The Official Chane M&C 'Arx' owner's thread (A1, A1b, A2, A2b, A3, A5, etc.)** - Page 36 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Baselworld is only a few weeks away. Getting the latest news is easy, Click Here for info on how to join the Watchuseek.com newsletter list. Follow our team for updates featuring event coverage, new product unveilings, watch industry news & more!


Forum Jump: 
 129Likes
Reply
Thread Tools
post #1051 of 1067 Old 05-18-2015, 07:52 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Jon Lane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,216
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by BufordTJustice View Post
Also, a system's true efficiency is determined by its bass alignment. Reaction has chosen to trade extension for substantial amounts of output. Not a bad trade, IMHO. But, in terms of total displacement, it would be roughly comparable to an A5rx-c if we're talking the 10" concentric version
This is a very important point, and one that rarely comes up in conversations. This is unfortunate because it's essential.

A speaker system - that multiway, multi-driver array in a box you're hearing - has its foundational output determined by the lowest frequency driver in the passive system. (Subwoofers don't count because they're tacked on, both electrically and acoustically.)

The baseline output is therefore what's happening in the response plateau above the passive speaker's natural bass cutoff. Its bass cutoff should tell you a good deal about the speaker too, especially what to expect from it and how to use it.

(A 5.25" 85dB speaker with 50Hz bass response can never be a 10" midrange with 120Hz cutoff, and a 10" midrange cannot and should not substitute for a small monitor. Like expectations, comparisons should be made with this in mind.)

But let's ask ourselves an important question: What happens if I bend a speaker's entire response up a dB or two? What happens when I lift the entire response and operate the drivers in audibly much different areas than before (adding precious dB to my stated specifications at the same time, if I find that important to my marketing)?

We can still call the pushed response "flat" - it's just flat above a slightly higher bass cutoff - but what's it then do dynamically, across all uses and all conditions and all levels?

The obvious answer is that we've just changed the entire personality of the speaker. We've also had a big impact on where and how to use it.

A simple amplitude specification cannot tell us what something sounds like. Even apparently similar speakers can sound much different, while we should expect that highly dissimilar speakers for fundamentally different uses don't compare at all - I don't see Chane moving into repurposed stage monitors, for example, or accepting trebles with time and phase changes to get loudness. We don't make speakers specifically for 80Hz+ loudness in dark rooms either (if for no other reason that they cost a great deal to make right).

Environments impart a sound and they favor one type of system over another. So do setups: In fact, even a single speaker model can be found to sound much different depending on rooms, systems, and setups - bright versus dull, forward versus recessed, and bass heavy versus bass shy, all from the same model.

Your results may - and will - vary, as the saying goes, while all a speaker maker can do is provide the basic technology and advice. There, shoppers should compare actual acoustical platforms rather than specifications or especially, assumed responses. Honda sedans are not BMW coupes are not Ford pickups are not Ariel Atoms, and they won't be used the same ways either.

Chane always offers user assistance and tries to be as complete as we can with setup tips. I repeat that advice, and I see other makers doing so too.
Bertram31 and klatwork like this.

Jon Lane
Chane Music & Cinema
Jon Lane is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #1052 of 1067 Old 05-18-2015, 09:05 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Soulburner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,131
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Liked: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by BufordTJustice View Post
Uh, the total air mass that the triple split gap midwoofers can move would be very comparable to a much larger driver.

Also, a system's true efficiency is determined by its bass alignment. Reaction has chosen to trade extension for substantial amounts of output. Not a bad trade, IMHO. But, in terms of total displacement, it would be roughly comparable to an A5rx-c if we're talking the 10" concentric version.

Also, I think soulburner is actually referring to the mid bass part of the spectrum, and not so much the midrange.
While the CX-10 does extend lower than the A3rx-c that I had, it's not going to be shaking any windows. That's always going to be subwoofer territory.

Anyway, while I like to compare the traits of different products from a consumer perspective, I'm not at all implying that the two in question are comparable. We're talking about very different designs and price points. And, the fact that I had to double my budget to get something closer to what I was looking for says a lot about the value of the Arx line.
Soulburner is online now  
post #1053 of 1067 Old 05-18-2015, 09:15 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Jon Lane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,216
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
While the CX-10 does extend lower than the A3rx-c that I had, it's not going to be shaking any windows. That's always going to be subwoofer territory.
F3 is determined by enclosure volume and system efficiency. A 95dB system in 40 liters, for example, isn't at that level below the uppers tens of cycles...

Jon Lane
Chane Music & Cinema
Jon Lane is offline  
post #1054 of 1067 Old 05-18-2015, 04:16 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
BufordTJustice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 483
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
While the CX-10 does extend lower than the A3rx-c that I had, it's not going to be shaking any windows. That's always going to be subwoofer territory.

Anyway, while I like to compare the traits of different products from a consumer perspective, I'm not at all implying that the two in question are comparable. We're talking about very different designs and price points. And, the fact that I had to double my budget to get something closer to what I was looking for says a lot about the value of the Arx line.
I'm not quite sure about your statement regarding the bass extension.... the A3rx-c is +/- 3dB from 55hz to 25khz, while the CX-10 is +/- 3dB from 57hz to 18khz. That would be basically identical in most listening spaces with comparable placement and boundary reinforcement with regard to bass extension.

Arcam AVR300, Panny BDT-500, Toshiba SD-9200 CD transport, Vizio XVT 55" LED/LCD (full direct-backlit w/ local dimming), Arx A5 & A3rx-c Mains, Arx A2rx-c center, HSU VTF-15h, BJC ten white w/ ultrasonically welded connectors.
BufordTJustice is online now  
post #1055 of 1067 Old 05-18-2015, 04:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Soulburner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,131
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Liked: 163
They do state roughly the same specs. I did not measure to know for sure, so I'm only going off of auditory memory, which could be faulty. But running them full range I felt like there was a small difference. Anyway, like I said I didn't conduct a proper test so I shouldn't have made that statement. In my experience though, the CX-10 blends better with my sub using a 60Hz crossover.
BufordTJustice likes this.
Soulburner is online now  
post #1056 of 1067 Old 05-18-2015, 08:21 PM
Senior Member
 
65 Electra Glide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 433
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
They do state roughly the same specs. I did not measure to know for sure, so I'm only going off of auditory memory, which could be faulty. But running them full range I felt like there was a small difference. Anyway, like I said I didn't conduct a proper test so I shouldn't have made that statement. In my experience though, the CX-10 blends better with my sub using a 60Hz crossover.
Given what your avatar says, maybe you shouldn't make such definitive statements based upon "auditory memory".
kaiforce likes this.
65 Electra Glide is offline  
post #1057 of 1067 Old 05-18-2015, 08:27 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Soulburner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,131
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Liked: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by 65 Electra Glide View Post
Given what your avatar says, maybe you shouldn't make such definitive statements based upon "auditory memory".
At least I admitted it when pointed out. I'm a reasonable person.

I know what I'm hearing in my room. Therefore I feel I'm qualified to comment on it. You decided to make a post which has no utility other than to troll. If that's your plan, great, but please take it somewhere else.

Last edited by Soulburner; 05-18-2015 at 08:42 PM.
Soulburner is online now  
post #1058 of 1067 Old 05-19-2015, 07:06 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 45
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 4
Just to dumb down the level of discourse here (since, as a total noob, I understand about 1% of the words in the above posts), anyone have any idea if these Kanto SP26 stands would work with a pair of A1's?

http://www.amazon.com/Kanto-SP26-PAI.../dp/B00X16S7PA
HofW is offline  
post #1059 of 1067 Old 05-19-2015, 07:49 AM
Senior Member
 
kaiforce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 305
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 65 Post(s)
Liked: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by HofW View Post
Just to dumb down the level of discourse here (since, as a total noob, I understand about 1% of the words in the above posts), anyone have any idea if these Kanto SP26 stands would work with a pair of A1's?

http://www.amazon.com/Kanto-SP26-PAI.../dp/B00X16S7PA
For that price I would recommend Sanus stands. They have a bigger base for the speakers and can be filled with sand. There are a few different sizes made from the steel material. Skip the plastic ones.

http://www.amazon.com/SANUS-SYSTEMS-...s=sanus+stands
kaiforce is online now  
post #1060 of 1067 Old 05-19-2015, 09:06 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 45
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaiforce View Post
For that price I would recommend Sanus stands. They have a bigger base for the speakers and can be filled with sand. There are a few different sizes made from the steel material. Skip the plastic ones.

http://www.amazon.com/SANUS-SYSTEMS-...s=sanus+stands
They actually are (or could be) $119 on massdrop, though I guess when you add in the $21 shipping its more or less a wash (and a disadvantage given you can't return them as you could the Sanus-es).
HofW is offline  
post #1061 of 1067 Old 05-20-2015, 08:16 AM
Member
 
SandstormGT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 113
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Liked: 37
Has anyone done a direct comparison or owned both the:

Chane A5rx-c Towers
vs
SVS Prime Towers

They both come out to be about the same price after shipping is calculated, but the SVS can also be auditioned and sent back within 45 days(free of charge) with no questions asked and 5 year warranty along with other customer centric perks.

I am just looking for the best speaker tower in this price range.
SandstormGT is offline  
post #1062 of 1067 Old 05-20-2015, 08:29 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
BufordTJustice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 483
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by SandstormGT View Post
Has anyone done a direct comparison or owned both the:

Chane A5rx-c Towers
vs
SVS Prime Towers

They both come out to be about the same price after shipping is calculated, but the SVS can also be auditioned and sent back within 45 days(free of charge) with no questions asked and 5 year warranty along with other customer centric perks.

I am just looking for the best speaker tower in this price range.
Haven't heard the prime towers. On HTS the original A5 was compared very favorable with the ultra tower. I'd expect the rx-c version to out class the prime version, though there's no way to know without listening to both.

The crossover, however, seems ridiculously and needlessly complicated by their own description. They even admit to doubling the number of components in the bass section and I'm not sure if they're admitting to them not being properly time-aligned due to the level of marketing speak. The Arx series is a minimalist design. Remember that a better description for a crossover is a DIVIDING NETWORK. All of the sound must pass through it and each component interplays with every other component. Adding complexity is NOT a good idea.

Bit, like I said, I haven't heard them so I can't comment on them beyond their design philosophy at this point.

Arcam AVR300, Panny BDT-500, Toshiba SD-9200 CD transport, Vizio XVT 55" LED/LCD (full direct-backlit w/ local dimming), Arx A5 & A3rx-c Mains, Arx A2rx-c center, HSU VTF-15h, BJC ten white w/ ultrasonically welded connectors.
BufordTJustice is online now  
post #1063 of 1067 Old 05-20-2015, 09:00 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 42
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked: 12
i doubt the aluminum dome tweeters on the SVS will sound better than the chanes planar tweeter...
I'm still waiting for a professional review on the A5rx-c...will they ever..
klatwork is online now  
post #1064 of 1067 Old Yesterday, 05:34 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 42
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked: 12
you know what the funny thing is with the heated debates / discussions above
soulburner is talking about the A3rx-c which is a A2rx-c center with an MDF stand...which he thought didn't align with the online reviews he's read (which are mostly for the A5s) with regards to soundstage, mid-bass, etc......
and everyone else is disagreeing because we are all thinking about the A5rx-c

Last edited by klatwork; Yesterday at 05:41 AM.
klatwork is online now  
post #1065 of 1067 Old Yesterday, 09:30 PM
AVS Special Member
 
GusGus748s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Visalia, CA 93291
Posts: 6,752
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 239 Post(s)
Liked: 627
Quote:
Originally Posted by klatwork View Post
you know what the funny thing is with the heated debates / discussions above
soulburner is talking about the A3rx-c which is a A2rx-c center with an MDF stand...which he thought didn't align with the online reviews he's read (which are mostly for the A5s) with regards to soundstage, mid-bass, etc......
and everyone else is disagreeing because we are all thinking about the A5rx-c
The A5's sound much better than A3's in my personal opinion and experience. I am very happy I went ahead from A3's to A5's!
GusGus748s is online now  
post #1066 of 1067 Old Today, 06:10 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
BufordTJustice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 483
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by GusGus748s View Post
The A5's sound much better than A3's in my personal opinion and experience. I am very happy I went ahead from A3's to A5's!
I'm going to mass load the bottom chamber of my A3rx-c towers and report back. Curious to see if any improvement will be discernible.

Arcam AVR300, Panny BDT-500, Toshiba SD-9200 CD transport, Vizio XVT 55" LED/LCD (full direct-backlit w/ local dimming), Arx A5 & A3rx-c Mains, Arx A2rx-c center, HSU VTF-15h, BJC ten white w/ ultrasonically welded connectors.
BufordTJustice is online now  
post #1067 of 1067 Unread Today, 06:52 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 42
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked: 12
talk about A3rx-c ...i see them on the massdrop.com group buy now....
IMO, if you can afford it, it's better to just go for the A5rx-c
klatwork is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Speakers



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off