**The Official Chane M&C 'Arx' owner's thread (A1, A1b, A2, A2b, A3, A5, etc.)** - Page 39 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1141 of 1151 Unread 07-19-2015, 11:12 AM
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It isn't distortion. What I hear from my current speakers, and what I've heard from some others, is much more true to life than what I heard in my 3 weeks with the A3s. I really wanted to like them, and I acknowledged the things they did well. I just couldn't get them to open up for me, and I don't know why. Even dialogue didn't sound natural.
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post #1142 of 1151 Unread 07-19-2015, 11:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
It isn't distortion. What I hear from my current speakers, and what I've heard from some others, is much more true to life than what I heard in my 3 weeks with the A3s. I really wanted to like them, and I acknowledged the things they did well. I just couldn't get them to open up for me, and I don't know why. Even dialogue didn't sound natural.
Most dialog is recorded in a studio, heavily EQ'd, and dynamically compressed in different ratios for different bans of the frequency spectrum, so stating what dialog sounds "natural" and what doesn't fails to account for distortions that begin early in the creation of the source material.

I understand what you're saying, but your experience is fairly unique. And I don't know if you're referring to an effect in radiation pattern, frequency response, phase shift, etc.

Arcam AVR300, Panny BDT-500, Toshiba SD-9200 CD transport, Vizio XVT 55" LED/LCD (full direct-backlit w/ local dimming), Arx A5 & A3rx-c Mains, Arx A2rx-c center, HSU VTF-15h, BJC ten white w/ ultrasonically welded connectors.
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post #1143 of 1151 Unread 07-19-2015, 11:27 AM
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Let me try and sum up from a few excerpts in a useful conclusion for readers. Please know that my opinion isn't directed at any one commenter but rather at how we can get some clarity bringing a few remarks into perspective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bertram31 View Post
Music like Donald Fagen sounds really good through them.

[...]

We blasted some Katy Perry, Lady Gaga and Naked and Famous through them as well as some other pop crapola. That all sounded amazingly good too!

[...]

They seem to really fall down on certain types of rock music. Few and far between though.

[...]

I cannot stress again the difference the receiver made. Especially when you want to "turn it up"!
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
...really good at classical, pop and electronic, not so good with rock which likes a stronger midrange.
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Originally Posted by glennds View Post
HT oriented and music oriented doesn't matter. When I am shopping for equipment, "cohesive, musical, and involving" are not attributes that I am looking for. I am looking for accuracy.

I believe that the audio gear (speakers & amps) should reproduce the audio signals with exacting detail and accuracy which involves a flat frequency response. This gear will reproduce audio that is coherent, musical, and involving if the audio signal has those qualities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
When you look at speakers today, there are definitely "music" speakers and "movie" speakers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by glennds View Post
To me there is no difference between movie audio and music audio.

[...]

I believe there are many settings in which a "music" speaker can reproduce proper SPLs for both movie and music.

I think the biggest difference lies with the type of listener. One likes overly bombastic audio, the other likes accurately reproduced audio.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BufordTJustice View Post
...lack of compression in [XYZ driver] means the tonal balance won't change nearly as much as a[n inferior driver] until much later in the volume/output curve.

I wonder how much of this "coming alive" is based upon our minds and ears expecting a certain amount of distortion and that tonal change that most std motor types undergo?
Speaker basics, being as brief as possible:

1. "Accuracy" is a misnomer because it only applies to one behavior of many. Applied to a multi-faceted device like a speaker sometimes it's useful as a vague subjective label, but speaker output - of which only about 1% is audible - is simply too complex to be "accurate". These various outputs - as I think Mark Seaton rightly observed here recently - exist on or in a number of domains, or dimensions.

2. There are a number of very important speaker behaviors that are rarely discussed and grasped even less. Buford touches on one. For example, distortion exists in such a varied state that like "accuracy", it doesn't lend itself to casual bench-racing. You have to listen to get a sense of it just like you have to listen to get a sense of anything in audio.

3. Everything in audio has a sound. We don't hear everything, at least not in identical degrees and rankings, but virtually everything has a sound. Recordings have a sound and if you're not getting a clear sense of it, your speakers aren't capable of reproducing it. Amplifiers matter (and arguments to the contrary can be just semantics). In some speakers I can hear ambient humidity but I can't measure it or find a panel of listeners that can. So, everything can be said to have a sound to some relative degree. It's a safer starting point than some may realize.

4. Environments matter, in some cases, a lot. They don't necessarily matter more than first arrival energy - what we hear directly from the speaker before room influence - but what works in a mixed use above-ground living room in a music arrangement isn't necessarily what works pushed against the wall in a concrete basement with a dominant subwoofer in play.

Any competent speaker design can and will be said to sound too north or too south or too hot or too cold with nothing more than a change of venue. The speaker isn't the culprit, its environment is.

5. Pursuant #4 , setup is just as important. Right you can get realism, wrong you never will.

6. While the auditory system is remarkable tuned and remarkably consistent, it's said there are roughly two classes of audiophiles. Some hear largely static frequency balance...and some hear all the rest.

This explains why - again, assuming a competent and genuinely good-sounding speaker - really hardcore audiophiles end up concentrated far more on sources and amplifying electronics than on speakers. This is where the "subjectivist" vernacular comes in, and where it's a completely viable and credible language.

7. We don't hear well when trying to hear well. One of the flaws with blind testing is the stress factor - you'll actually hear a very great deal only days or weeks after the fact, and when you're not paying attention at all, and even when you really don't care to hear a change or a component or a particular setup. Music and cinema are for enjoyment and making either a competitive chore ruins the effect and impairs progress. Perception and enjoyment can be delicate. Enjoy them.

8. Pursuant #7 , proof of the phenomenon is all those times when a second person remarks, without cause or provocation, that a particular alteration to a system produced X effect...at the same instant as the first person made it. And exactly describing what the first person had just observed, more times than not completely blind.

I can't remember how many times in 35 years I've experienced this - right down to the moment an unexpected change occurred - and yet I've never experienced a false positive. Relax, listen to as much stuff as you possible can, and trust your internal system.

9. Speakers come in electric, acoustical, and mechanical classes and should be compared as such - if you really must compare speakers instead of comparing any one of them to live unamplified sound, keep them in approximate classes. A five inch bookshelf 2-way is not a four foot electrostat is not a foot-wide coaxial stage monitor. A phase and time correct response (see: one-way panel) is not an inverted-polarity response with irrecoverable time errors (see: repurposed stage monitor).

A 40Hz speaker is not a 80Hz speaker, a 86dB speaker is not a 96dB speaker, and a 8 ohm load is not a 4 ohm load. And a $400 speaker is not always another $400 speaker. Think car shopping - some dealers carry Honda sedans and others carry Ford trucks. We know this before we set out so apply the same thought to speakers.

10. Public speaker recommendations rarely take all that matters into consideration because that would be impossible. Popularity is likely no more an intrinsic measure of good sound than color or veneer is, although in the best of cases it may be helpful.

If "what's best" is the question, the answer should include "best in what way?" when in practice it mostly answers "what's recommended these days." There is no best and your musical enjoyment and their consensus aren't correlated by a hard rule, if at all.

If you're getting a consistent theme from all this it's because there is one: Listen. Listen a lot, listen to everything, and listen as casually as you can, avoiding preconception, determination, opinion, and especially competitive bench-racing. Although it absolutely and essentially employs it, audio is not a science. In your house, it's also not a competition.

Audio is a series of human compromises, some known and some not, and every now and again it can (and should) transcend what you'd otherwise expect from a stack of black boxes over there on the other wall.

It can - and should - entrance you. Is it?

If it's not...then it's not, and you're just not there yet. And while there is a lot of confirming subjective experience we can share with friends and associates, and while those experiences can be uncannily intuitive, prescient, and confirming, for real progress to occur eventually someone has to break out into the wild and hear it first, so to put it.

Enjoy the exploration and try not to get too tied up in what only seems like good advice but hasn't - yet, at least - really dazzled you with the sound of real acoustical events happening in real acoustical spaces.

You will know it when you hear it.
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Last edited by Jon Lane; 07-19-2015 at 04:19 PM.
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post #1144 of 1151 Unread 07-19-2015, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
It isn't distortion. What I hear from my current speakers, and what I've heard from some others, is much more true to life than what I heard in my 3 weeks with the A3s. I really wanted to like them, and I acknowledged the things they did well. I just couldn't get them to open up for me, and I don't know why. Even dialogue didn't sound natural.
I think you've made your point . . . and pursuant typical, common audio phenomenon, is contrary to what others have heard and reported. I don't say that to disagree, just to point out the nature of audio. For example:

Quote:
The mids are quite breathtaking. They could be a tad smoother and there’s the slightest hint of dryness to them, but it’s only there if you really listen for it. Artists like Lana del Rey, Zoë Johnston, and Richard Bedford sound better on the Arx than I’ve ever heard them before. When running the speakers as Small, the mids open up more as the woofers are freed of their low-frequency shackles. Vocals are effortless in this configuration – pure audio bliss. The midrange really is where the Arx excel, due to their natural timbre. They sound real, not artificial.
Source.

Hopefully the thread can get back to topic?

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Last edited by Jon Lane; 07-23-2015 at 07:25 PM.
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post #1145 of 1151 Unread 07-23-2015, 06:38 PM
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anyone from Toronto wants to listen to A5rx-c and A2/A1rx-c in person?
I have the entire set, but I want to hear how they sound with a marantz 7008/7009...thinking about selling my x4100 and get a 7009..
if anyone has a highend marantz, you can bring it over and test the speakers...and I can find out whether it's worth getting the Marantz
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post #1146 of 1151 Unread 07-23-2015, 08:00 PM
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^ Wish I had both...the Marantz AND the Chanes! Should be a really sweet combination. Have fond memories of the Marantz 5400 I had about a decade ago, went really well with my very neutral and revealing Ascends.
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post #1147 of 1151 Unread 07-24-2015, 05:38 AM
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Spoiler!


That was not as brief as possible lol.. but I enjoyed the little excerpt and the insight from someone who probably knows more about what they're talking about than someone who doesn't.

I for one.. love the Chane speakers.. with all genre's. I'm a critical listener at times but I can't dismiss the fact that I'm getting such a great value for what I spent.

I do want to know if a new center channel is in the works though?? Just rumors and speculation?
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post #1148 of 1151 Unread 07-24-2015, 06:44 AM
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What kind of speakers did you end up going with again, soulburner?

Main: Mitsubishi 73734 DLP|Amazon Fire TV|Toshiba HD DVD-A35|Sony BDP-S1100|Denon AVR-4311CI|MartinLogan Preface|Phantom|MartinLogan Encore TF|2 - DIY Class G 540w 12" Subs|APC H15|Harmony 720 Remote|Linksys E3000 Dual Band N-Router|Linksys SE2500 Ethernet Switch

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post #1149 of 1151 Unread 07-24-2015, 06:58 AM
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Solid review of the A2rx-c's was posted up just yesterday.. made a good coffee read this morning:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...er-review.html
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post #1150 of 1151 Unread 07-25-2015, 06:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrel! View Post
What kind of speakers did you end up going with again, soulburner?
IIRC, he went with these:

http://reaction-audio.myshopify.com/...ant=2843228929

Arcam AVR300, Panny BDT-500, Toshiba SD-9200 CD transport, Vizio XVT 55" LED/LCD (full direct-backlit w/ local dimming), Arx A5 & A3rx-c Mains, Arx A2rx-c center, HSU VTF-15h, BJC ten white w/ ultrasonically welded connectors.
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post #1151 of 1151 Unread Today, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RochRx7 View Post
Solid review of the A2rx-c's was posted up just yesterday.. made a good coffee read this morning:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...er-review.html
Thanks for posting! That review echoes a lot of the same things I experienced with mine. It is nice to see that other people hear and feel the same way about them. Especially the part about 2.1 for music. I find myself doing the the exact same thing. Even in 2.1 I could swear the center is/was on. I have actually have had to get up and confirm that it was in fact OFF.

Without Music, life would be a mistake... (FN)
There are no facts, only interpretations... (FN)

PS3, HK AVR-254, HK DVD-38, Yamaha YBA-11, Panasonic TC-55LE54, Chane A2rx-c L/C/R, Chane A1rx-c LR/RR, Rythmic Sub on the way.
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