**The Official Chane M&C 'Arx' owner's thread (A1, A1b, A2, A2b, A3, A5, etc.)** - Page 52 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 04-03-2016, 04:30 PM
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Sorry my fingers got in the way, I was just wondering if the Arx-1 would be a good Dolby Atmos speaker?

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Old 04-04-2016, 06:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Sorry my fingers got in the way, I was just wondering if the Arx-1 would be a good Dolby Atmos speaker?

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Yes, but total overkill. Atmos applies a convoluted EQ network and only requires bass response to 150hz (but can be set as high as 250hz).
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Old 04-04-2016, 09:28 AM
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Yes, but total overkill. Atmos applies a convoluted EQ network and only requires bass response to 150hz (but can be set as high as 250hz).
There are two ways to do speakers for Atmos overhead sound. The first is to use a speaker is placed on or near the front left and right speakers and aimed to the ceiling so that its sound reflects off the ceiling and down to the listening position. Such speakers are referred to as Dolby Atmos Enabled. They are designed to produce sound with a specific frequency response profile that helps remove the sense that any of their sound is coming from their actual location. Most are also designed physically to direct the higher frequencies only toward the ceiling. A conventional speaker such as the A1 would not be a good candidate for this. You will want speakers designed specifically for the purpose if you intend to go this route - they will be more effective.

The second way to do Atmos overhead sounds is to place an actual speaker on or in the ceiling. If you do it this way, the signals going to these speakers have the potential to be full range. Of course, as with all the other speakers in the system, bass management can be used to redirect the lowest two octaves or so to your subwoofer(s). The A1 would do well here I think, but I do not think that the A1 would be overkill at all. The speakers you use in this situation should probably be every bit as capable as your other surround speakers for the best effect. True, the Atmos soundtracks releases thus far are such that not very much is demanded of the overhead speakers. But that was the case with surround speakers many years ago, and look where we are now. Many action movies can give those surround speakers a good workout, and I expect that the same will be able to be said of overhead speakers as mixers learn how to use them more effectively over the coming years.

To sum up, a conventional speaker won't work as well as a Dolby Atmos Enabled speaker designed for that purpose, if you're going the upfiring route. But if you're going with actual speakers on or in ceiling, I think they should be as capable as your side and rear surrounds, which would mean that the A1 would work great and not be overkill at all.

My $0.02, FWIW.
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Old 04-04-2016, 11:43 AM
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Would the pioneer atmos modules be a good fit for Chane speakers? Any other suggestions for modules? Preferably that don't hurt the wallet too much.
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Old 04-04-2016, 12:19 PM
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^ I'm not much help there. I have read that people have not been terribly impressed with the Onkyo units or the Definitive Technology units. I have heard good things about the KEF units, but those are likely to be rather expensive. You might ask over in the Dolby Atmos thread which units people have found to be pretty good.

As far as matching acoustically with Chane models, the best you can hope for I think is that your receiver's auto-EQ routine gets them reasonably close. Matching timbres across speaker manufacturers is kind of a crapshoot.

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Old 04-04-2016, 01:15 PM
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I was thinking of using arx-5 as my mains, arx-2 for heights and arx-1 as my widths and a single arx-2 for my center channel, and using 1 pair Arx-1 for my rear heights and 1pair of arx-2 for rear mains. Would this be OK or would it be an overkill?

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Old 04-04-2016, 02:41 PM
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^ I'm not much help there. I have read that people have not been terribly impressed with the Onkyo units or the Definitive Technology units. I have heard good things about the KEF units, but those are likely to be rather expensive. You might ask over in the Dolby Atmos thread which units people have found to be pretty good.

As far as matching acoustically with Chane models, the best you can hope for I think is that your receiver's auto-EQ routine gets them reasonably close. Matching timbres across speaker manufacturers is kind of a crapshoot.
Thank you. I've heard good things about the pioneers and the Elacs. You're right though. It's a crapshoot.
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Old 04-04-2016, 02:57 PM
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I was thinking of using arx-5 as my mains, arx-2 for heights and arx-1 as my widths and a single arx-2 for my center channel, and using 1 pair Arx-1 for my rear heights and 1pair of arx-2 for rear mains. Would this be OK or would it be an overkill?

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Hmm, I'm counting two A5, five A2 and four A1. In Atmos speak, you have (going clockwise around the room) L, C, R, SR, SBR, SBL, SL. And then up top you have a TF (top front) pair and a TR (top rear) pair. This would be a 7.1.4 system. If it were me using that set of speakers to set up a 7.1.4 system, I'd do A5 for L an R, A2 for C, SR, SBR, SBL, and SL, and the four A1 for TF and TR pairs on the ceiling.

Edit: There are other Atmos layouts of course, including using wides and no back surrounds (sides only). A bit off-topic though . . .

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Old 04-05-2016, 05:53 AM - Thread Starter
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There are two ways to do speakers for Atmos overhead sound. The first is to use a speaker is placed on or near the front left and right speakers and aimed to the ceiling so that its sound reflects off the ceiling and down to the listening position. Such speakers are referred to as Dolby Atmos Enabled. They are designed to produce sound with a specific frequency response profile that helps remove the sense that any of their sound is coming from their actual location. Most are also designed physically to direct the higher frequencies only toward the ceiling. A conventional speaker such as the A1 would not be a good candidate for this. You will want speakers designed specifically for the purpose if you intend to go this route - they will be more effective.

The second way to do Atmos overhead sounds is to place an actual speaker on or in the ceiling. If you do it this way, the signals going to these speakers have the potential to be full range. Of course, as with all the other speakers in the system, bass management can be used to redirect the lowest two octaves or so to your subwoofer(s). The A1 would do well here I think, but I do not think that the A1 would be overkill at all. The speakers you use in this situation should probably be every bit as capable as your other surround speakers for the best effect. True, the Atmos soundtracks releases thus far are such that not very much is demanded of the overhead speakers. But that was the case with surround speakers many years ago, and look where we are now. Many action movies can give those surround speakers a good workout, and I expect that the same will be able to be said of overhead speakers as mixers learn how to use them more effectively over the coming years.

To sum up, a conventional speaker won't work as well as a Dolby Atmos Enabled speaker designed for that purpose, if you're going the upfiring route. But if you're going with actual speakers on or in ceiling, I think they should be as capable as your side and rear surrounds, which would mean that the A1 would work great and not be overkill at all.

My $0.02, FWIW.
I disagree with the part I have bolded above. Most Dolby Atmos enabled speakers are very poorly constructed and they use an arcane HRTF crossover/passive EQ network that is the textbook definition of absurd.

Read about HRTF here:
https://www.audioholics.com/loudspea...nd-dolby-atmos

Dolby Atmos speaker design discussion:
https://www.audioholics.com/loudspea...vation-speaker

And the Atmos Elevation Speaker patent:
http://www.google.com/patents/WO2014107714A1?cl=en

Further, I've heard Atmos setups wherein a dedicated A-E speaker was employed and then swapped for a quality bookshelf (in this case, the bookshelf was an older NHT Super Zero)....and the bookshelf absolutely blew away the dedicated Atmos speaker. However, the bass output of the bookshelf had to be curtailed inside the AVR in order to prevent localization and corresponding reduction of the effect. I've also heard in-ceiling setups (which are superior, in my opinion) and those, too had to have the bass knee elevated to the 250hz setting for greatest Atmos effect over the widest listening area. Lowering the knee detracted from the effect and shrank the sweet spot.

Based on the Dolby Patent, it is not their intent to direct any amount of bass energy to those speakers, that (in fact) the lack of bass and midbass signal is what helps create the Atmos Effect in the first place (which is increased ambience). From the patent itself (emphasis mine):

"10. A system for rendering sound using reflected sound elements, comprising: a speaker placed at a speaker location and comprising a housing enclosing a plurality of drivers, wherein a first driver of the plurality of drivers is a front-firing driver configured to transmit sound waves along a first axis proximately corresponding to the ground plane, and a second driver of the plurality of drivers is an upward-firing driver oriented at an inclination angle relative to the ground plane and configured to reflect sound off an upper surface of a listening environment to produce a reflected speaker location; and
a virtual height filter applying a frequency response curve to an audio signal generated by a renderer and transmitted to the upward-firing driver, wherein the virtual height filter at least partially removes directional cues from the speaker location and at least partially inserts the directional cues from the reflected speaker location.



11. The system of claim 10 wherein the audio signal comprises a full bandwidth signal, the system further comprising a crossover coupled to the speaker, the crossover having a low- pass section configured to transmit low frequency signals below a threshold frequency to the front-firing driver, and a high-pass section configured to transmit high frequency signals above the threshold frequency to the upward firing driver.




12. The system of claim 11 wherein the virtual height filter is integrated with the crossover as part of an integrated crossover/filter circuit.




13. The system of claim 12 wherein the crossover/filter circuit is one of: a digital component implemented as a digital signal processor (DSP) device or a logic gate circuit, and an analog circuit, and wherein the crossover/filter circuit is one of a: passive device network and an active device network."

Also from the patent:

"BRIEF SUMMARY OF EMBODIMENTS [0010] Embodiments are directed to speakers and circuits that reflect sound off a ceiling or upper surface to a listening location at a distance from a speaker. The reflected sound provides height cues to reproduce audio objects that have overhead audio components. The speaker comprises one or more upward firing drivers to reflect sound off of the upper surface and represents a virtual height speaker. A virtual height filter based on a directional hearing model is applied to the upward-firing driver signal to improve the perception of height for audio signals transmitted by the virtual height speaker to provide optimum reproduction of the overhead reflected sound. Additionally, the virtual height filter may be incorporated as part of a crossover circuit that separates the full band and sends high frequency sound to the upward-firing driver. Room correction processes are also used to provide calibration and maintain virtual height filtering in systems that perform automatic room equalization and other anomaly negating processes."



Gene D. over at Audioholics demonstrates, correctly, that a HRTF filter network is not only not a necessary component of an Atmos system, but can actually introduce artifacts into the signal that serve to degrade the Atmos effect itself. Focusing on obtaining a quality speaker that works within the listening environment is a better solution....and one that I have already recommended. Lastly, based on the patent itself, there are not going to be bass frequencies directed to any Atmos speakers. Ever.

EDIT: Also from the patent:

"[0058] As shown in FIGS. 4 A and 4B, the renderer outputs separate height and direct signals to directly the respective upward firing and direct speakers. Alternatively, the renderer could output a single audio signal that is separated into height and direct components by a discrete separation or crossover circuit. In this case, the audio output from the renderer would be separated into its constituent height and direct components by a separate circuit. In certain cases the height and direct components are not frequency dependent and an external separation circuit is used to separate the audio into height and direct sound components and route these signals to the appropriate respective drivers, where virtual height filtering would be applied to the upward firing speaker signal. [0059] In most common cases, however, the height and direct components may be frequency dependent, and the separation circuit comprises crossover circuit that separates the full-bandwidth signal into low and high (or bandpass) components for transmission to the appropriate drivers. This is often the most useful case since height cues are typically more prevalent in high frequency signals rather than low frequency signals, and for this application, a crossover circuit may be used in conjunction with or integrated in the virtual height filter component to route high frequency signals to the upward firing driver(s) and lower frequency signals to the direct firing driver(s). FIG. 7 is a diagram illustrating a virtual height filter system including crossover circuit, under an embodiment. As shown in system 700, output from the renderer 702 through an amp (not shown) is a full bandwidth signal and a virtual height speaker filter 708 is used to impart the desired height filter transfer function for signals sent to the upward firing speaker 712. A crossover circuit 706 separates the full bandwidth signal from renderer 702 into high (upper) and low (direct) frequency components for transmission to the appropriate speakers 712 (upward firing) and 714 (direct). The crossover 706 may be integrated with or separate from the height filter 708, and these separate or combined circuits may be provided anywhere within the signal processing chain, such as between the renderer and speaker system (as shown), as part of an amp or pre-amp in the chain, within the speaker system itself, or as components closely coupled or integrated within the renderer 702. The crossover function may be implemented prior to or after the virtual height filtering function."

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Old 04-08-2016, 11:34 AM
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Any idea when the center channel will be back in stock?
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Old 04-08-2016, 06:22 PM
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Any idea when the center channel will be back in stock?
They are coming out with an updated one sometime this spring. The current one is gone.

http://www.chanemusiccinema.com/foru...A2Rx-C-Restock
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Old 04-08-2016, 06:37 PM
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They are coming out with an updated one sometime this spring. The current one is gone.

http://www.chanemusiccinema.com/foru...A2Rx-C-Restock
Jon, mentioned to me that there was something going to be up regarding the new A2 this week. Have checked every single day and nothing just yet. But, I am sure the info with be forthcoming very soon. Personally, I can't wait! Looking forward to it!

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Old 04-09-2016, 03:34 PM
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Probably not....

Jon shipped me a proof-of-concept pair and they arrive tomorrow.


Can you share your thoughts on these at this time? I'm very interested in these from what I've read.
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Old 04-09-2016, 10:40 PM
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I want to buy the A1s to use as surrounds. Is that even a good option? They will be mounted on the walls.
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Old 04-10-2016, 01:37 PM
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I have the A1s as surrounds and they work great for me...they're a perfect compliment to my A2 center and A5s L/R. It's really nice to have timbre matched speakers all the way around. I don't have mine mounted on the wall but I don't think it'd be hard to do.
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Old 04-10-2016, 02:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Can you share your thoughts on these at this time? I'm very interested in these from what I've read.
Unfortunately, i can't. Not yet, anyway. Partially because refinements are still being made.

I might share a teaser pic later this week. Might not. But this A2 revision is a solid step into some serious, dedicated 2-channel territory.

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Old 04-10-2016, 03:09 PM
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I want to buy the A1s to use as surrounds. Is that even a good option? They will be mounted on the walls.
I almost went with the A1's but it would have been forced for my space since the main listening couch is up against the same wall they would be mounted on, meaning they would need to be angled in pretty heavily. I ended up picking these:

http://www.fluance.com/surround-soun...kers-black-ash

They came last week, haven't had the chance to put them in yet, but I really like the natural angle and flush wall mount. It should be perfect for my space. If I had a walkway behind the couch, creating more distance, and less angle, I would have definitely gone with A1's though.
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Old 04-12-2016, 03:17 PM
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Unfortunately, i can't. Not yet, anyway. Partially because refinements are still being made.

I might share a teaser pic later this week. Might not. But this A2 revision is a solid step into some serious, dedicated 2-channel territory.
BTJ, do you think the new A2 will mesh well with a pair of A5's in a 3.1 setup ?
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Old 04-13-2016, 09:46 AM - Thread Starter
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BTJ, do you think the new A2 will mesh well with a pair of A5's in a 3.1 setup ?
It will mesh better than ever.

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Old 04-14-2016, 10:35 AM
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It will mesh better than ever.
That's awesome. I'll definitely be ordering one when they are released.
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Old 04-14-2016, 11:22 AM
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They are coming out with an updated one sometime this spring. The current one is gone.

http://www.chanemusiccinema.com/foru...A2Rx-C-Restock
well, crap. Just got 3 of these not too long ago, and now they are already outdated a bit...
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Old 04-14-2016, 01:39 PM
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I plan to order (3) of the new A2.4's as soon as they are available. Would order right now if I could. Already have the stands. BTW, the stands are very nice. Just waiting to pounce!

Cheers,

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Old 04-14-2016, 05:56 PM - Thread Starter
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well, crap. Just got 3 of these not too long ago, and now they are already outdated a bit...
Yours certainly aren't broken. Not by a long shot. In fact, the A2rx-c is one of the best MTM models available under $750. Midrange distortion is extremely low, they can play as loud as some high efficiency models, and their dispersion pattern is excellent.

The new revision is just better. I'm tight lipped for a reason.

What I'm hearing now, the A2.4 in a vertical stereo pair.... They're sounding a lot more like an expensive pair of stand monitors. If you catch my drift.

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Old 04-14-2016, 07:18 PM
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Yours certainly aren't broken. Not by a long shot. In fact, the A2rx-c is one of the best MTM models available under $750. Midrange distortion is extremely low, they can play as loud as some high efficiency models, and their dispersion pattern is excellent.

The new revision is just better. I'm tight lipped for a reason.

What I'm hearing now, the A2.4 in a vertical stereo pair.... They're sounding a lot more like an expensive pair of stand monitors. If you catch my drift.
This is exactly why I plan to order (3) of them.......well at least a set, then order a 3rd later on. Or, might just go ahead and order (3) who knows. Am so ready to pounce.......LOL!!!!!!

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Old 04-14-2016, 08:54 PM
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Yours certainly aren't broken. Not by a long shot. In fact, the A2rx-c is one of the best MTM models available under $750. Midrange distortion is extremely low, they can play as loud as some high efficiency models, and their dispersion pattern is excellent.

The new revision is just better. I'm tight lipped for a reason.

What I'm hearing now, the A2.4 in a vertical stereo pair.... They're sounding a lot more like an expensive pair of stand monitors. If you catch my drift.
I know this of course, love them & have no complaints, just wish I could afford to ...play...
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Old 04-15-2016, 04:41 PM - Thread Starter
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I know this of course, love them & have no complaints, just wish I could afford to ...play...
They're shockingly good in strict 2.0. They have superior clarity, bass, treble/bass extension, dynamics, imaging, and smoothness compared to the ML Motion 35XT and theSonus Faber Veneer 1.5. That's all i could fit in my lunchtime hour-long listening session.

These could be the new 2 channel sleeper in the under $1K ID category. Nearly ruler flat to 32k AND even flatter off-axis response than the current A2rx-c (possibly rivaling some ribbon drivers ). Just a sweetheart. From Kid Cudi to Art Blakeley. That's all for now.
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Old 04-15-2016, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by BufordTJustice View Post
They're shockingly good in strict 2.0. They have superior clarity, bass, treble/bass extension, dynamics, imaging, and smoothness compared to the ML Motion 35XT and theSonus Faber Veneer 1.5. That's all i could fit in my lunchtime hour-long listening session.

These could be the new 2 channel sleeper in the under $1K ID category. Nearly ruler flat to 32k AND even flatter off-axis response than the current A2rx-c (possibly rivaling some ribbon drivers ). Just a sweetheart. From Kid Cudi to Art Blakeley. That's all for now.
Oh man am chomping at the bits here.....am so ready to order me a set! But, thank you for the insights. Keep them coming. Just hope I can order soon!

Cheers,

Phil

Taylo Reference Monitors For Sale! Read more here: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/209-au...tors-sale.html Thanks!
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Old 04-15-2016, 06:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh man am chomping at the bits here.....am so ready to order me a set! But, thank you for the insights. Keep them coming. Just hope I can order soon!

Cheers,

Phil
It's not a finished thing.... still some refinements to be made. But Jon's accomplished a thing with this one.
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Old 04-15-2016, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofreak38 View Post
Oh man am chomping at the bits here.....am so ready to order me a set! But, thank you for the insights. Keep them coming. Just hope I can order soon!

Cheers,

Phil
It's not a finished thing.... still some refinements to be made. But Jon's accomplished a thing with this one.

I'm confused. I thought the new updates for the A2rx-c were only slight improvements?
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Old 04-15-2016, 07:39 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm confused. I thought the new updates for the A2rx-c were only slight improvements?
I was wrong. It's a big improvement. If not in parts, in execution.
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