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post #31 of 45 Old 10-08-2012, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by kerednai View Post

After chatting to the builder today I'm back to in-ceiling speakers for the sides too..
So now we are looking like:
L& R In-wall (e.g. UIW RLS III)
Center free standing (TBD)
Side Surround In-ceiling (e.g. UIW RCS II or maybe UIW RCS III)
Rear In-ceiling (e.g. UIW RCS II or maybe UIW RCS III)
I know the in ceiling probably isn't as good as in wall but I think in-ceiling is going to be more pleasing for the O/H and then I don't have to worry about any outside wall insulation issues, which living in MN I don't want to have to deal with afterwards.

I think you will be fine. I am suing the UIW RSS series for my side surrounds. They sound quite good. RSS III should be fine for side and RCS IIII for rears. Would be a kickass system with the RLS III left and right.
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post #32 of 45 Old 10-08-2012, 02:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Sounds good. Def Tech suggested 18" from the wall. I guess this would be just to the left of the first stud (from the right wall) so I'm sure that is why they recommend it. Once I have my fireplace moved to 45 degrees I'll be able to work out exactly how much space I have to play with.
Thanks for all your help. I'm sure I'll be posting back here once the fireplace is in position :-)
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post #33 of 45 Old 10-08-2012, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerednai View Post

Sounds good. Def Tech suggested 18" from the wall. I guess this would be just to the left of the first stud (from the right wall) so I'm sure that is why they recommend it. Once I have my fireplace moved to 45 degrees I'll be able to work out exactly how much space I have to play with.
Thanks for all your help. I'm sure I'll be posting back here once the fireplace is in position :-)

Sounds good, good luck!

If only I could talk you into a projector and acoustically transparent screen tongue.gif
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post #34 of 45 Old 10-10-2012, 11:54 AM
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kerednai, have you thought about an in-ceiling drop down or pull down projector screen? Possibly combined with a box around the PJ, you'd have an almost completely stealth setup. That might be even better for your O/H.

I'm also looking at Definitive Technology RSS for surrounds. I want to try the RLS for LCRs up front, but unfortunately my pull-down screen is not acoustically transparent. That leaves me with about 8 inches to the left and 18" to the right of the screen. For now, I've been using tall bookshelf speakers on the mantel behind the screen above the fireplace, but right in the corners. Less than ideal.

I've thought of two other options. One would be something like thre UIW RCS III in-ceiling just in front of the screen, but running wires would be a pain. The other possibility would be putting LCR speakers on the front-wall near the ceiling, behind the screen. The reason that is even possible is that the screen has about 2 feet of perforated black "drop" when the screen is retracted down.
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post #35 of 45 Old 10-10-2012, 04:21 PM - Thread Starter
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The O/H wants an on-demand TV that doesn't require pulling down a projector screen (even if its electric) and warming up the lamp etc..
So there are battles thats its worth fighting and there are battles that right now I am thinking its not worth fighting..
Any suggestions of a good "sales" image / video showing the benefits of this setup?
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post #36 of 45 Old 10-10-2012, 04:23 PM - Thread Starter
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OK.. you got me thinking - how much would a decent projector and screen cost?
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post #37 of 45 Old 10-10-2012, 05:44 PM
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Yeah, the projector is mostly good for movies or sports. Not just a quick "turn on the TV." That said, it's only about 60 seconds to turn on the projector, the AVR, and have the bulb warm up enough to see what you're doing.

I went with a Da-lite pull down screen mounted flush inside the ceiling, that I ordered through AVS. Dalite themselves were great. Though they sent the wrong size on a custom order, within 48 hours of receiving the wrong screen, they had a new custom-sized screen at my house.

I guess this discussion would belong more in the projector section rather than here in speakers.
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post #38 of 45 Old 10-10-2012, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerednai View Post

After chatting to the builder today I'm back to in-ceiling speakers for the sides too..
So now we are looking like:
L& R In-wall (e.g. UIW RLS III)
Center free standing (TBD)
Side Surround In-ceiling (e.g. UIW RCS II or maybe UIW RCS III)
Rear In-ceiling (e.g. UIW RCS II or maybe UIW RCS III)
I know the in ceiling probably isn't as good as in wall but I think in-ceiling is going to be more pleasing for the O/H and then I don't have to worry about any outside wall insulation issues, which living in MN I don't want to have to deal with afterwards.

I see no reason for 7.1 in that case. Go 5.1

Yeah - front projection all the way. Some folks have a 40" or so LCD, then a 100"+screen that comes down in front of it.

Only problem with L +R in wall, but not the center is how well will they match?
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post #39 of 45 Old 10-11-2012, 12:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Why do you see no reason for 5.1?
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post #40 of 45 Old 11-01-2012, 03:02 PM
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ack_bk, since I've seen you all over the in-wall speaker discussion, and your input for options seems to be the most suitable for my budget, I'm wondering if you can answer a couple questions for me. And because you're a fellow MN-an. Others feel free to chime in though. Anyway, I'm looking at a remodel in the basement, and leaning toward deftech all around. I'm sold on the RLS II for the fronts, L and R. First question is related to the center speaker. I'm thinking RLS II there as well, but it would have to be horizontal, AND it would have to be lower than what is likely ideal. I have a 58" plasma that it would have to go either over or under (I'm thinking under would be closer to ideal for sound). Would this be a mistake? Does anyone make a good enclosed in-wall center speaker with a pivoting tweeter? And if so, would it be better to have a center speaker too low on the wall, than mix and match different brands for the fronts? I'm assuming the answer is yes.

Next question is regarding the receiver. I currently have an HK AVR240 and I'm thinking of upgrading. I'm looking at the HK AVR3600 (since I've been happy with my HK), but I'm also considering the Denon AVR2311C1. Both look to be similar in cost on Amazon, but a larger mark-down on the HK. Thoughts? Does anyone know if one pairs better with deftech? I also have an SVS PB10-ISD sub, that I'll be keeping in the setup.

Not looking to hijack the thread - just didn't want to start a new one, since I have similar questions.
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post #41 of 45 Old 11-01-2012, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by shtan614 View Post

ack_bk, since I've seen you all over the in-wall speaker discussion, and your input for options seems to be the most suitable for my budget, I'm wondering if you can answer a couple questions for me. And because you're a fellow MN-an. Others feel free to chime in though. Anyway, I'm looking at a remodel in the basement, and leaning toward deftech all around. I'm sold on the RLS II for the fronts, L and R. First question is related to the center speaker. I'm thinking RLS II there as well, but it would have to be horizontal, AND it would have to be lower than what is likely ideal. I have a 58" plasma that it would have to go either over or under (I'm thinking under would be closer to ideal for sound). Would this be a mistake? Does anyone make a good enclosed in-wall center speaker with a pivoting tweeter? And if so, would it be better to have a center speaker too low on the wall, than mix and match different brands for the fronts? I'm assuming the answer is yes.
Next question is regarding the receiver. I currently have an HK AVR240 and I'm thinking of upgrading. I'm looking at the (since I've been happy with my HK), but I'm also considering the Denon AVR2311C1. Both look to be similar in cost on Amazon, but a larger mark-down on the HK. Thoughts? Does anyone know if one pairs better with deftech? I also have an SVS PB10-ISD sub, that I'll be keeping in the setup.
Not looking to hijack the thread - just didn't want to start a new one, since I have similar questions.

Where are you in MN? In your situation, you might be better off with a brand of in-wall that has a pivoting tweeter. The Speakercraft AIM LCR series has a pivoting tweeter and woofer. As for placement, are you sitting in a standard couch or do you have multiple rows of seating with raised seats? If it is a normal couch/chair I would mount below. If you go with the Speakercraft speaker above ( http://www.avhifi.com/shop/speakercraft-aim-lcr-1-in-wall-speaker-each.html ), I would go with the backer box too for sure: http://www.avhifi.com/shop/speakercraft-asm84600-sound-enclosure-each.html

You don't want to mix and match speaker brands across the front three speakers (timbre matching). A few more questions. What is your room size?

As for the AVR, have you looked at this site? You can usually get a good deal on Denon and while the receivers are refurbished, they come with a full manufacturers warranty. Between myself and friends and family I have ordered a half dozen receivers from them with great results:
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/category/AVReceiver/Home-Audio/Home-Theater-Receivers/1.html

I know the HK receivers use some sort of room EQ, but Denon uses Audyssey. A receiver like the Denon 1712 is a great bargain at $249 and has lots of options usually on found on more expensive receivers.
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post #42 of 45 Old 11-01-2012, 04:52 PM
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I was in the cities for about 15 years - moved to Moorhead a couple years ago to avoid losing more years off my life with the traffic down there.

The room is 17x25. Seating is normal - sectional and recliner.

What's the lowest you'd go with a center speaker with normal seating. I'm really sold on these deftechs, so I might be able to mount the tv a tad higher than I normally would, in order to go with the RLS II's. Unless you really think the pivoting tweeter/woofer is the best way to go if placing the center speaker below a flat panel?

Thanks for all the info, and for the tip on the site! I have not been to that one before - looks like there are some great deals on there. You mention the 1712, would the 2112 or the 2312 be overkill? I had budgeted a little more for the AVR, so either of those would definitely be in my range.
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post #43 of 45 Old 11-01-2012, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by shtan614 View Post

I was in the cities for about 15 years - moved to Moorhead a couple years ago to avoid losing more years off my life with the traffic down there.
The room is 17x25. Seating is normal - sectional and recliner.
What's the lowest you'd go with a center speaker with normal seating. I'm really sold on these deftechs, so I might be able to mount the tv a tad higher than I normally would, in order to go with the RLS II's. Unless you really think the pivoting tweeter/woofer is the best way to go if placing the center speaker below a flat panel?
Thanks for all the info, and for the tip on the site! I have not been to that one before - looks like there are some great deals on there. You mention the 1712, would the 2112 or the 2312 be overkill? I had budgeted a little more for the AVR, so either of those would definitely be in my range.

Well I would invite you over for a demo, but 200+ miles is a little far smile.gif

I think you can make the Deftech speakers work. Ideally you want the tweeter of the speaker at ear level. On my couch (I am 5'11") that puts the tweeter at 45". The UIW RLS IIII is 5 7/8" wide which would add another 2 1/2 inches to the 45". That would put the speaker at roughly 47 1/2" above the floor which might work. If you mount the TV just above the speaker that would put the bottom of the TV 50" off the floor. You probably have a few inches to play with on the horizontal center speaker, so I would estimate 47-50" off the floor would be ideal placement.

Have you considered a projector and acoustically transparent screen for the basement? You have ample room and a good 1080p PJ and screen could be had for about $1500-2000 shipped depending on screen size. Then you would have ideal speaker placement behind the screen (vertical speaker) and a much larger screen for the money. Just a thought to consider.

If the higher end receivers have features you want they may not be overkill, but I am using a 1712 and it has no problem driving the efficient Deftech speakers, and it had all the features I really wanted (namely Audyssey MulttEQ XT). If you have the budget the then spending $100-200 more for a better featured receiver is not a waste unless you would not use the features.
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post #44 of 45 Old 11-02-2012, 12:27 PM
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Thanks for all the info - I think I'm going to try to make deftechs work. I measured it out and ear-level puts speaker placement at about 40-42 inches. Currently I have the center at 36", so I'm thinking I could mount the tv a few inches higher, to get to the optimal center speaker height. I'm thinking the RLS II for front LCR, the RSS III for the surround, and either the RSS III (wall) or RCS III (ceiling) for the rears, depending on what I decide during the remodel.

I considered the projector route, but I'm not sure my space would allow for it. I have a 1910 house, and have the ceiling height restrictions in the basement that go along with houses built around that time. In fact, my remodel will be a pretty big challenge in itself, with a large chunk of the budget going toward asbestos abatement and pipe re-routing. Unless I decide to dig. But that's a discussion for a different site, eh? In either case, I'm likely looking at no more than a 6 1/2 ceiling height in the end, which I'm guessing would make projector placement a bit of a challenge. It's something worth exploring though.

As for the AVR, after reviewing the specs, I guess I'll just have to decide of it's worth the extra $160 to go with the 2312 over the 1712. The network options on the 2312 look appealing, but I probably get most of that through my blu-ray. Apple AirPlay sounds "neat", but not sure it's worth the extra $$ for primarily that, and the extra 15 watts per channel. Good to know that the 90-watt 1712 would drive the deftech speakers just fine though.

Thanks again for all the info!!
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post #45 of 45 Old 11-02-2012, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shtan614 View Post

Thanks for all the info - I think I'm going to try to make deftechs work. I measured it out and ear-level puts speaker placement at about 40-42 inches. Currently I have the center at 36", so I'm thinking I could mount the tv a few inches higher, to get to the optimal center speaker height. I'm thinking the RLS II for front LCR, the RSS III for the surround, and either the RSS III (wall) or RCS III (ceiling) for the rears, depending on what I decide during the remodel.
I considered the projector route, but I'm not sure my space would allow for it. I have a 1910 house, and have the ceiling height restrictions in the basement that go along with houses built around that time. In fact, my remodel will be a pretty big challenge in itself, with a large chunk of the budget going toward asbestos abatement and pipe re-routing. Unless I decide to dig. But that's a discussion for a different site, eh? In either case, I'm likely looking at no more than a 6 1/2 ceiling height in the end, which I'm guessing would make projector placement a bit of a challenge. It's something worth exploring though.
As for the AVR, after reviewing the specs, I guess I'll just have to decide of it's worth the extra $160 to go with the 2312 over the 1712. The network options on the 2312 look appealing, but I probably get most of that through my blu-ray. Apple AirPlay sounds "neat", but not sure it's worth the extra $$ for primarily that, and the extra 15 watts per channel. Good to know that the 90-watt 1712 would drive the deftech speakers just fine though.
Thanks again for all the info!!

Your speaker selections make a lot of sense. 6.5' ceilings would make a projector more of a challenge, but you might be able to shelf mount. At any rate good luck!
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