Bose Acoustimass 10 with Pioneer VSX-1022-k Speaker Settings - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 130 Old 10-05-2012, 08:09 PM
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Oh good grief. This place is amazing.

That is why you should stop promoting junk like Bose here.

You are just wasting your time in promoting a wrong product to a wrong crowd.


Bose is a Two-billion-dollar company. That just eats you up, doesn't it.

BTW, I didn't come here to promote anything. That's just the way it ended up. Sorry to upset y'all's world-view. You can get back to your comfort zones, now.
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post #92 of 130 Old 10-05-2012, 08:21 PM
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I don't mind an honest business making an honest profit. But they tout their products as quality, audiophile worthy gear. Nothing could be further from the truth. I seriously dislike people who purposely rip others off. Bose and Monster are the two worst offenders that come to mind.

Dumb enough to spend lots of cash on this junk!
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post #93 of 130 Old 10-05-2012, 08:56 PM
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I don't mind an honest business making an honest profit. But they tout their products as quality, audiophile worthy gear. Nothing could be further from the truth. I seriously dislike people who purposely rip others off. Bose and Monster are the two worst offenders that come to mind.


I believe they do sell quality products; just not over-built-to-audiophile-spec products. You have to admit, there is much over-build in audiophile land. Many audiophiles like that and demand it, which is all well and good. There's lot's of businesses lined up to take their money. But a lot of people don't care about that stuff, whether it's 1/2" thick faceplates or speaker wires that look like dolled up welding cables. I tend to straddle the fence, personally. I like and appreciate good build quality, but I appreciate it more when it's affordable and gives good performance for the dollar. If it looks good, is easy to use and integrates easily into my home, then that is even better. Different people will all weigh these different attributes...differently. Bose concentrates on one end of the spectrum; companies like Boulder, on the other. I don't think there is a good and bad, or a right and wrong, here. Besides, I think you have to ask who's ripping off who, when the mags tout speakers and amps that cost more than a really nice car!
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post #94 of 130 Old 10-05-2012, 09:26 PM
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The ultra high end manufacturers put the best components in their products and charge a huge premium for them. Are they worth it? I don't think so but at least you know what you are getting, and people who are passionate and somewhat knowledgeable about audio are the ones who buy these things. I have seen the guts of Bose systems and they are clearly cheaply made junk that they claim is high quality that they charge a huge premium for. Plus they prey on the ignorant consumer who doesn't know anything about what a real, quality audio system consists of. So who is the bigger crook here?

Dumb enough to spend lots of cash on this junk!
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post #95 of 130 Old 10-05-2012, 11:44 PM
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The high-end takes advantage of peoples passion. Try as I might. I honestly can't see how Bose is taking advantage of anyone. What are they hiding? They don't claim to have components full of boutique parts dripping with audiophile cache. They simply offer good sound, or at least, they sound good enough, if you prefer, w/o the audiophile muss, fuss and bother. And they do it with good-looking products that people want to own. Where's the crime?

Part of the Bose mantra, is that specs do not correlate to the enjoyment of music, therefore, they don't engage in specsmanship. Isn't that pretty much what a lot of tube and horn makers say, too? And I agree with them both. Two of my favorite speakers are the klipschorn and the Bose 901. Neither one measures particularly well. So what? They both can sound a lot like good, live music. We don't listen to specs and brand names. We listen to the music!
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post #96 of 130 Old 10-06-2012, 01:09 AM
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What are they hiding? Why don't they submit anything for THX certification? Why dont they post a measured frequency response graph?

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post #97 of 130 Old 10-06-2012, 01:30 AM
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Originally Posted by wlhungdude View Post

Why dont they post a measured frequency response graph?

Bose won't even post the frequency range for the Acoustimass, much less a graph. Wouldn't look too good to list as specs,

Bose Acoustimass 15: 46hz to 200hz, 280hz to 13.5khz, +/-10.5db

And can you imagine fielding the obvious questions from potential customers?

"What happened to 200hz to 280hz?"

"Our speakers don't really produce usable sound in that range."

"Why do some other speaker manufacturers list a frequency range with +/- 3db"

"Because their speakers are way more accurate than ours."


LOL

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post #98 of 130 Old 10-06-2012, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by dat56 View Post

The high-end takes advantage of peoples passion. Try as I might. I honestly can't see how Bose is taking advantage of anyone. What are they hiding? They don't claim to have components full of boutique parts dripping with audiophile cache. They simply offer good sound, or at least, they sound good enough, if you prefer, w/o the audiophile muss, fuss and bother. And they do it with good-looking products that people want to own. Where's the crime?
Part of the Bose mantra, is that specs do not correlate to the enjoyment of music, therefore, they don't engage in specsmanship. Isn't that pretty much what a lot of tube and horn makers say, too? And I agree with them both. Two of my favorite speakers are the klipschorn and the Bose 901. Neither one measures particularly well. So what? They both can sound a lot like good, live music. We don't listen to specs and brand names. We listen to the music!
The part about horns not measuring well at all is not true. I have seen response ranges of horns measure incredibly well until you get sufficiently off axis where it drops off like a rock. The reason? I'll give you a hint, it's called controlled directivity.

Bose makes the claim that their products are high end audiophile grade and that they produce, ahem, "the lowest audible notes". That is demonstrably false.

Straight from their website pal,
Quote:
Four innovative Direct/Reflecting® cube speaker arrays and a horizontal center-channel speaker produce lifelike effects in 5.1-channel surround sound. Music and dialogue ring clear and true. And a proprietary Acoustimass module delivers profound low frequencies throughout the listening area. Two downward-firing drivers in the Acoustimass module enable realistic sound for low audible notes and effects.

Dumb enough to spend lots of cash on this junk!
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post #99 of 130 Old 10-06-2012, 07:08 AM
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Bose is a Two-billion-dollar company. That just eats you up, doesn't it.
BTW, I didn't come here to promote anything. That's just the way it ended up. Sorry to upset y'all's world-view. You can get back to your comfort zones, now.

I didnt know what size company Bose is. No I dont care how big they are. I dont have a problem if a multi-billion dollar company is making profit if they are selling products that are good value for the money, which isn't the case with Bose. Most people on this planet know that except those ignorant and gullible who buy Bose junk.

It does bother me that a company would make its profit by praying on the ignorant and gullible. At least the other B&M brands don't do that. They sell junk but they are also cheap. i.e you get what you paid for. Where as in the case of Bose, you DONT get what you paid for. You always get much less value for what you paid.

If you are not promoting Bose here, then why are you posting all the rebuttals here. You should go tell the folks who sent you here that they sent you to the wrong place to promote the Bose junk. LOL
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post #100 of 130 Old 10-06-2012, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

Four innovative Direct/Reflecting® cube speaker arrays and a horizontal center-channel speaker produce lifelike effects in 5.1-channel surround sound. Music and dialogue ring clear and true. And a proprietary Acoustimass module delivers profound low frequencies throughout the listening area. Two downward-firing drivers in the Acoustimass module enable realistic sound for low audible notes and effects.
If they adhered to a strict truth in advertising policy that blurb world read
Four cube speaker arrays and a horizontal center channel speaker produce lots of midrange, but no highs. Music and dialog don't sound the least bit life like. An Acoustimass module, the technology of which we copied, delivers fair lows at low volume, but will not reproduce the LFE content of movies. But they're really small, so if looks matter and how they sound doesn't, and you don't mind paying too much, these are the speakers for you!

But that wouldn't sell as many speakers.
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Bose is a Two-billion-dollar company.
Get it right. Amar Bose is a billionaire. He got that way by realizing obscene profit margins, selling poorly engineered cheaply built products at premium prices. Good for him, not so good for the uninformed consumers who filled his coffers. Now why don't you toddle off to an investment forum and defend Bernie Madoff.
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post #101 of 130 Old 10-06-2012, 11:18 AM
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The part about horns not measuring well at all is not true. I have seen response ranges of horns measure incredibly well until you get sufficiently off axis where it drops off like a rock. The reason? I'll give you a hint, it's called controlled directivity.
Bose makes the claim that their products are high end audiophile grade and that they produce, ahem, "the lowest audible notes". That is demonstrably false.
Straight from their website pal,

It is funny that they say dialogue rings clear and true when a significant portion of it comes from the sub LOL
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post #102 of 130 Old 10-06-2012, 11:30 AM
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The high-end takes advantage of peoples passion.

No, the high-end does not take advantage of people's passion. They offer really high-end choices for those who can afford and they back it up with high-end performances that are reviewed/verified/measured by professionals who have established credibility by doing that for several years.

You dont see Bose junk reviewed in Stereophile magazine or a benchmark of Bose junk by Secrets of Home Theater magazine. If they did, they would probably go out of business because people will stop subscribing to those magazines smile.gif
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They don't claim to have components full of boutique parts dripping with audiophile cache.

Then why is Bose junk so expensive. Dont give me lame excuse that it is due to the size. There are several satellite/micro models that are so much better value for the money. Many of them are ID companies that offer the same 30-45 day in-home trial.
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post #103 of 130 Old 10-06-2012, 11:38 AM
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It is funny that they say dialogue rings clear and true when a significant portion of it comes from the sub LOL

Sounds even better when the bass module is located in the corner. LOL

My aunt bought an Acoustimass setup in the 1990s. You know. Cubes hanging down from the ceiling. I hated it when watching movies at her house. Dialogue intelligibility was so bad that they had to leave the TV speakers on when they watched movies. I used to wish that they just a decent pair of bookshelves and a sub instead. Meanwhile, my setup at the time probably cost 2/3 as much and sounded way better.

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post #104 of 130 Old 10-06-2012, 11:42 AM
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I believe they do sell quality products; just not over-built-to-audiophile-spec products. You have to admit, there is much over-build in audiophile land. Many audiophiles like that and demand it, which is all well and good. There's lot's of businesses lined up to take their money. But a lot of people don't care about that stuff, whether it's 1/2" thick faceplates or speaker wires that look like dolled up welding cables. I tend to straddle the fence, personally. I like and appreciate good build quality, but I appreciate it more when it's affordable and gives good performance for the dollar. If it looks good, is easy to use and integrates easily into my home, then that is even better. Different people will all weigh these different attributes...differently. Bose concentrates on one end of the spectrum; companies like Boulder, on the other. I don't think there is a good and bad, or a right and wrong, here. Besides, I think you have to ask who's ripping off who, when the mags tout speakers and amps that cost more than a really nice car!

After coincidentally seeing your posts (dripping with butthurt) in several threads today, I must ask, how can you possibly be brainwashed by "BLOWS" after owning Khorns? Something doesn't add up here. I don't usually even post here, much less get involved with these pissing matches, but I couldn't help it this time. Bose represents a poor value for the money. There is nothing wrong with people pointing this out in an audio/video SCIENCE forum. If those that are married to vanity want to, they can keep/buy BLOWS.
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post #105 of 130 Old 10-06-2012, 12:10 PM
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i have a dayton audio system5.1 ( 4 - b652's , ccs 33b center and a dayton sub120 which i paid $212 at the time) in my garage for outdoor theater for the grand kids and i'd put it up against any acoustimass system

i'm so laid back,i'm laid out
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post #106 of 130 Old 10-06-2012, 01:14 PM
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i have a dayton audio system5.1 ( 4 - b652's , ccs 33b center and a dayton sub120 which i paid $212 at the time) in my garage for outdoor theater for the grand kids and i'd put it up against any acoustimass system

...and you would win, quite handily.
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post #107 of 130 Old 10-06-2012, 04:57 PM
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What would happen if I took some Bose cubes, hooked them up to my Emotiva XPR-5 amplifier, and cranked it up to reference? biggrin.gif

Seriously. Would there be any way of improving the sound quality of Bose speakers while maintaining the exact size of the cubes?

I'm thinking that there isn't really a good way unless they made one cube bigger and went with a 3.5" driver along with a 1" tweeter, like a lot of computer speaker manufacturers have done. I have a pair of Creative GigaWorks T40 II's that have this arrangement using two 3.5" drivers. They sound OK but would sound MUCH better if the enclosure wasn't plastic. I'm guessing that Bose cubes sound like crap compared to the T40's.

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post #108 of 130 Old 10-06-2012, 06:50 PM
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What would happen if I took some Bose cubes, hooked them up to my Emotiva XPR-5 amplifier, and cranked it up to reference? biggrin.gif.
A short lived loud noise, followed by magic smoke and then silence.

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post #109 of 130 Old 10-06-2012, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by wlhungdude View Post

What are they hiding? Why don't they submit anything for THX certification? Why dont they post a measured frequency response graph?


I answered this in my previous post.

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Originally Posted by dat56 View Post

The high-end takes advantage of peoples passion. Try as I might. I honestly can't see how Bose is taking advantage of anyone. What are they hiding? They don't claim to have components full of boutique parts dripping with audiophile cache. They simply offer good sound, or at least, they sound good enough, if you prefer, w/o the audiophile muss, fuss and bother. And they do it with good-looking products that people want to own. Where's the crime?
Part of the Bose mantra, is that specs do not correlate to the enjoyment of music, therefore, they don't engage in specsmanship. Isn't that pretty much what a lot of tube and horn makers say, too? And I agree with them both. Two of my favorite speakers are the klipschorn and the Bose 901. Neither one measures particularly well. So what? They both can sound a lot like good, live music. We don't listen to specs and brand names. We listen to the music!
The part about horns not measuring well at all is not true. I have seen response ranges of horns measure incredibly well until you get sufficiently off axis where it drops off like a rock. The reason? I'll give you a hint, it's called controlled directivity.

Bose makes the claim that their products are high end audiophile grade and that they produce, ahem, "the lowest audible notes". That is demonstrably false.

Straight from their website pal,
Quote:
Four innovative Direct/Reflecting® cube speaker arrays and a horizontal center-channel speaker produce lifelike effects in 5.1-channel surround sound. Music and dialogue ring clear and true. And a proprietary Acoustimass module delivers profound low frequencies throughout the listening area. Two downward-firing drivers in the Acoustimass module enable realistic sound for low audible notes and effects.


"Low" is not "lowest". I see no reference in any Bose ads to "audiophile grade". Your claim is not substantiated by the supplied quote.

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Bose is a Two-billion-dollar company. That just eats you up, doesn't it.
BTW, I didn't come here to promote anything. That's just the way it ended up. Sorry to upset y'all's world-view. You can get back to your comfort zones, now.

I didnt know what size company Bose is. No I dont care how big they are. I dont have a problem if a multi-billion dollar company is making profit if they are selling products that are good value for the money, which isn't the case with Bose. Most people on this planet know that except those ignorant and gullible who buy Bose junk.

It does bother me that a company would make its profit by praying on the ignorant and gullible. At least the other B&M brands don't do that. They sell junk but they are also cheap. i.e you get what you paid for. Where as in the case of Bose, you DONT get what you paid for. You always get much less value for what you paid.

If you are not promoting Bose here, then why are you posting all the rebuttals here. You should go tell the folks who sent you here that they sent you to the wrong place to promote the Bose junk. LOL


Again you hurl personal insults. "Ignorant and gullible"? And that would be because I like the Bose products that I own?

Have I insulted your choices? -NO. Have I insulted your intelligence? -NO. I guess it's only OK to post here if you agree with the "concensus" opinion? And what country are we in?? You folks are sure a thin-skinned bunch. Must be very insecure.

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Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Now why don't you toddle off to an investment forum and defend Bernie Madoff.


It's hard, having your bias's challenged, isn't it.

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Originally Posted by yamafied View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by smasher50 View Post

i have a dayton audio system5.1 ( 4 - b652's , ccs 33b center and a dayton sub120 which i paid $212 at the time) in my garage for outdoor theater for the grand kids and i'd put it up against any acoustimass system

...and you would win, quite handily.


And you know this because...?

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Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jevans64 View Post

What would happen if I took some Bose cubes, hooked them up to my Emotiva XPR-5 amplifier, and cranked it up to reference? biggrin.gif.
A short lived loud noise, followed by magic smoke and then silence.

They are rated for amps up to 200W per channel when used with the Acoustimass module. You might want to read the specs that Bose does post since they are so important to you.
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post #110 of 130 Old 10-06-2012, 08:04 PM
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Good golly dat56 give it a rest,, you're especially screaming "shill" with your repetitive posts on this one subject, everyone gets it you think Amar Bose deserves more money, most of the rest of us don't once you look around and inform yourself. You're enabling the others and they can't resist is one way to think about it. smile.gif It's also frikkin' boring in this thread and I think I saw another last night where you guys were getting it going again. Good grief, the OP has left the thread. Give it a rest everyone.

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post #111 of 130 Old 10-06-2012, 10:17 PM
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Return the Bose.

Take a look at NHT, they have a 5.1 package built around their zero speakers for $500. Way better sound quality. There are several more good options that this group will offer.
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post #112 of 130 Old 10-06-2012, 10:50 PM
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Good golly dat56 give it a rest,, you're especially screaming "shill" with your repetitive posts on this one subject, everyone gets it you think Amar Bose deserves more money, most of the rest of us don't once you look around and inform yourself. You're enabling the others and they can't resist is one way to think about it. smile.gif It's also frikkin' boring in this thread and I think I saw another last night where you guys were getting it going again. Good grief, the OP has left the thread. Give it a rest everyone.


It is getting a little old, isn't it. Repetitive? Yes, that too. Not to worry, these things run their course. At least it's a bit of a release for me, because I do get tired of all the knee-jerk anti-Bose bile on internet audio forums. I figure if others have the right to spew it, I have the right to call them on it.

The OP asked about the settings on his receiver that he was driving Bose acoustimass speakers with. When I looked at the thread, no one had answered his question. I did. And I called out those who had instead, just as they do in other Bose-related threads, used his post as an opportunity to make anti-Bose comments and suggestions as to what he should buy instead. (Pretty much anything,except Bose, is acceptable I gather.) And from there on it was attacks on Bose and attacks on me. This is better than Bose; That is better than Bose; Bose is for the ignorant, the uninformed, blah, blah, blah...and I'm screaming "don't you people get it? I don't care what you like and I don't care what you own. You share your experience and I'll share mine. Mine is just as valid as yours......and never will anyone even address my point.

So, sure, I'm tired of it, too. It's too bad there can't be fair, polite and respectful give and take. I don't see this kind of passion and hatred ignited anywhere else on the internet, other than in the areas of politics and religion. I guess that's the thing I may as well accept: Those are the three things you can't discuss in polite company --politics, religion...and Bose!
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post #113 of 130 Old 10-07-2012, 05:53 AM
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Again you hurl personal insults. "Ignorant and gullible"? And that would be because I like the Bose products that I own?


It is a well known fact that people who buy speakers from a B&M stores are ignorant and gullible. So I am not adding insult to injury. It is not that they do a lot of research and end up buying over priced Bose junk. They just buy it based on word of mouth or because all they want is something very unobtrusive but makes some sound, even if it predominantly comes from the sub in the corner. LOL.

Like I said before there are 2 main categories of Bose owners. Both are ignorant and gullible but at least one category realizes that they didnt get good value for the money, try to do some post-Bose-purchase-research, return the Bose junk and buy something better value for their money like the OP. Those folks have never heard names like Advent, Khorns, B&W, RBH etc. They dont know what Frequency Response is nor what a subwoofer is.

If someone has owned other brands and is familiar with the technical jargons, it is just hard to believe that they would end up liking the Bose junk. I dont think you own Bose just because you like it. You cannot be serious smile.gif when you say you liked Bose junk over brands like Advent, Klipsch, B&W, RBH etc., especially after having owned them. You are just a Bose promoter. As you can see, you just cant promote that junk here. So stop wasting your time promoting/defending over priced, under performing junk and spend your time doing something worthwhile.

You are welcome to criticize other brands people own here. Other than nitpicking, you may not find a lot of issues with most other entry or mid level speaker models as they are not over priced, under performing junk. Like I said before, we get what we paid for or even more with other brands. That is not the case with Bose and this I believe is the ONLY reason why there is so much resentment towards Bose junk. You dont see people criticizing all other cheap junk that is sold at BestBuy. Do you?

BTW have you ever thought of starting a Bose Owners Thread here? LOL There you will not see such anti Bose feelings smile.gif
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post #114 of 130 Old 10-07-2012, 06:16 AM
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They are rated for amps up to 200W per channel when used with the Acoustimass module. You might want to read the specs that Bose does post since they are so important to you.
Thermal power ratings are meaningless, as are all of the so-called specs that Amar does deign to reveal. The output of a driver is limited by the driver's displacement, T/S spec Vd. In the case of the Bose cubes even crossed over at 200Hz they're displacement limited to about ten watts before they reach their excursion limit. Being generous they might be capable of 95dB at 1 meter, with zero headroom. That's a long way from reference.
This is another example of your not having the necessary knowledge to teach anything, nor the willingness to learn anything. That pretty much personifies the definition of an internet troll.

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post #115 of 130 Old 10-07-2012, 06:26 AM
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http://www.bose.com/controller?url=/shop_online/speakers/stereo_speakers/901_speakers/index.jsp

That is the kind of specs that a furniture company would post. i.e dimensions LOL

There is no mention of FR in the manual either
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post #116 of 130 Old 10-07-2012, 06:35 AM
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If I can get a pair of Klipsch RF82's for $1200 (a lot less if I go with sound distributors) but if I still buy the Bose 901 junk for some $1400, I ought to be ignorant and gullible. Or how about the Vienna Acoustics Haydn Grand for $1500 a pair. There are so many options at $1400 (both small and large) that are so much better value for the money than the 901 junk at $1400.

I dont have a problem if the 901's are sold for some $400.

BTW did you notice the image in my avatar. They are the Klipsch KG3.2's which I refinished. I also made the stands myself (just MDF and 2x4's and some paint from Home Depot). I only spent a couple of 100 bucks. You cant buy bookshelf speakers that sound better than those for that price. Now that is what I call "value for the money".

They are probably as wide and as tall as the 901 junk (with the stands). So the size argument is not going to fly.

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post #117 of 130 Old 10-07-2012, 06:58 AM
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http://www.bose.com/controller?url=/promotions/entry_pages/solo/index.jsp&mulsourceid=BB1029160&src=BB1029160

Now that is called deceptive marketing or praying on the ignorant and only the ignorant and gullible people will fall for such claims. There are many soundbars that can be bought for same price or less and they dont make such ridiculous claims. They are just simple solutions but there are not any better than TV speakers. This is the main reason why people have such aversion towards Bose junk. Stop promoting junk as a value product.
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post #118 of 130 Old 10-07-2012, 07:06 AM
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Stop associating junk with a space shuttle. That is an insult to the entire Space Shuttle program as much as it is to compare the 901 junk to Magnepans and say that the 901's sound better.

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post #119 of 130 Old 10-07-2012, 07:44 AM
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Stop associating junk with a space shuttle.]
It's actually a pretty good comparison, the Shuttle also being an example of the epitome of 1970s technology. And both now belong only in museums.

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post #120 of 130 Old 10-07-2012, 08:11 AM
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BTW have you ever thought of starting a Bose Owners Thread here? LOL There you will not see such anti Bose feelings smile.gif

That's a good idea. It could be called the "Bose Dark Ages Thread." You know. Pre-enlightenment. Read from the gospel of the Bose book of speaker alchemy. No audio science allowed. wink.gif

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