Need HELP, please: replacement speakers for Paradigm Monitor 11's, Center 3, and Surround 3's. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 35 Old 10-01-2012, 02:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Some of you may already have read the fiasco that I have gone through with Paradigm, but if you have not, below are two threads to catch up, which leads me to this thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1431490/paradigm-monitor-series-7-very-disappointed-serious-quality-control-issues-and-manufacturing-flaws-non-responsive-customer-service

Paradigm has offered no explanation or acknowledged any issues with their Chinese-made new line of Monitor Series 7 speakers, but have offered to take the speakers back and give me a refund. I may just take them upon their offer.

I wold the like the replacements to sound equally, if not better, have a better build quality, but not to exceed the MSRP of the Paradigm's that may be replaced.

Getting a hold of anyone in upper management took some ingenious searching on Google, as their website provides no e-mail addresses or contact information whatsoever. The ones in the top upper management did not reply, nor care to discuss the issues.

My question, is the following, what other speakers should I be looking at? I know that sound is subjective, and my area is VERY limited to high end dealers. I need two tower speakers, 1 center channel speaker, and two surround speakers to be wall mounted. Again, this is to replace a pair of Paradigm Monitor 11's a Center 3, and a pair of Surround 3's. The surround must be of a bipole and/or dipole configuration, versus a direct firing bookshelf style of speaker. The bass is handled by an SVS PB12 +2.

I would prefer speakers that are made out of real wood veneers, versus vinyl, and that are solidly built, and that look as good aesthetically as they sound.

The system is installed in a relatively small den (14 x10 with 8-9 feet ceiling). I am using a Denon 4311 as the amplifier and sound processor. Not that it matters, but they system is hooked up with an Oppo DBP 93, and Sony XBR 929 55-inch TV. Speaker cables are Audioquest Type 2 and HDMI cables are Audioquest Cinnamon series.

I like a lot of mid-bass that can blend in with the sub and not leave a gap in the frequency response. I like to listen at loud volumes with no distortion with very bright, detailer, and clear highs. Therefore, I would prefer a tower with al least three midrange/woofers drivers.

The five speakers must NOT have a retail over 3K, but I must be able to find a retailer that is willing to negotiate a stellar price for the set-up. I prefer to be able to purchase through an established internet retailer, rather than being forced to go through a dealer that is mandated by the manufacturer.

I have considered a set-up with the B&W 683 towers, but have read that the matching center channel is horrible. Stepping up to the CM8 or CM9 is out of my price range. I am also considering the Monitor Audio Silver RX8 set-up? A PSB set-up with the T6 Imagine is a step down correct? The Image series is too high MSRP wise. What about Focal and Dynaudio? Those MSRP for quite a bit more? I listened to the Klipsch RF 82, but did not like them (highs were muffled, contrary to what most say that they are overly bright). I loved the RF7's, but a set-up with those is also out of my price range.

Please provide some opinions. Thank you.
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post #2 of 35 Old 10-01-2012, 03:00 PM
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How about two Aperion Versus Grand towers, Versus Grand Center, and a pair of Versus Surrounds

http://www.aperionaudio.com/speakers/verus-family

Total $3,100.

If you no like, send back for free, they pay shipping both ways.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewHTbuyer View Post

How about two Aperion Versus Grand towers, Versus Grand Center, and a pair of Versus Surrounds
http://www.aperionaudio.com/speakers/verus-family
Total $3,100.
If you no like, send back for free, they pay shipping both ways.

I am an amateur at this. Is this a good brand? There are hundreds of them out there (Def, Tech., Martin Logan, EMP, etc...). I have no way of auditioning almost none of them. What about KEF?
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post #4 of 35 Old 10-01-2012, 03:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewHTbuyer View Post

How about two Aperion Versus Grand towers, Versus Grand Center, and a pair of Versus Surrounds
http://www.aperionaudio.com/speakers/verus-family
Total $3,100.
If you no like, send back for free, they pay shipping both ways.

The specs on paper and looks of them look very nice. I just had never heard of this brand before.
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post #5 of 35 Old 10-01-2012, 03:17 PM
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Ascend Acoustics is an Internet direct audio retailer based out of CA, and they assemble their own speakers here in the US. They have an excellent reputation for good sounding speakers. Given your recent experience, thought you might like to explore the option of speakers that are assembled here.

I think they are in Southern California. Might be worth setting up a visit if you live nearby.

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post #6 of 35 Old 10-01-2012, 03:23 PM
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By all means, if you can get a refund, jump on it with both feet...quickly!

My top recommendation is a pair of PSB Image T6 speakers, plus a pair of Image B6 speakers, and a Image C5 center speaker. These are very hard to beat for under $3000. The cherry finish is not real cherry, but the appearance is so nice that it is hard to tell from the real thing; high quality and durable (not just cheap vinyl, but a good-quality laminate). I had the T6 for a couple of years and they are excellent; great bass down to 40 Hz, also. Set your subwoofer rolloff filter for 50 Hz and they will deliver the goods.

Another very good possibility would be the KEF Q700 speakers for the front with a Q200c center speaker and a pair of Q100 speakers for rear/surround. I think these are all available from KEF Direct in real Oak, Cherry, or Mahogany. This would also be well under $3000.

IMO the B & W speakers in this price range are way overpriced for the sound quality they will give you. There are better speakers for less money from several other companies..

Dynaudio has some very good speakers, but a system of this type would be $4000-5000. They are made in Denmark, and their prices are a bit steep, even for their quality.
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post #7 of 35 Old 10-01-2012, 03:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks guys. Please keep the information coming. So how does Asperion Audio compare to Ascend and to PSB? What about Monitor Audio. The key here is negotiation as well. I paid no where near retail for the Paradigm's, and do not intend to do so with another brand, so the selection has to strike a balance between quality, sound, and price that I am able to obtain from a vendor or directly from the manufacturer.
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post #8 of 35 Old 10-01-2012, 03:41 PM
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Just like SVS when you ordered your sub, Ascend Acoustics as an Internet direct retailer is not going to negotiate with you. I think that they may offer discounts if you order a whole package.

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post #9 of 35 Old 10-01-2012, 03:45 PM
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I think that you will get excellent sound quality in either of the speaker systems I suggested for well under your stated maximum of $3000.

If you are more interested in screwing the price down than the sound quality you are going to live with for years, then that is a preoccupation that I do not understand.

In audio, it has been my experience that the high-quality equipment from top manufacturers is seldom heavily discounted. Your experience with Paradigm apparently has not taught you as much as it should have.
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post #10 of 35 Old 10-01-2012, 03:46 PM
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Hear the Aperion won Audioholics product of the year award

http://www.audioholics.com/buying-guides/product-awards-and-gift-guides/2010-audioholics-poy

That is a well respected website that does execllent reviews. I have never heard them personally, but there are many happy customers. FYI that review used bookshelves as the surrounds. Since that time Aperion introduced the dipole/bipole surrounds.

Ascend is also well loved, but as far as I know, they don't make dipole type surrounds, which you said was a requirement.

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Quote:
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Ascend is also well loved, but as far as I know, they don't make dipole type surrounds, which you said was a requirement.

Oopps. I missed that.

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post #12 of 35 Old 10-01-2012, 03:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks again to all. I really appreciate the responses here. I like the bipole type of surrounds, versus the bookshelf type direct firing, because of their ability to "diffuse" the surround better, and to immerse one in the action. This is a 5.1 system, so the surronds will be mounted on the wall to the side, with no rear surrounds.

Price wise, I got a GREAT deal on the Paradigms, so I listed the MSRP for what the Paradigm's go for, assuming that I can get the same discount structure on the replacement speakers taht MSRP for around the same price. This is very important. Kind of linke buying a Cotrvette, Mercedes, or BMW. Just because you are getting say an 80K car, it does not mean that you paid MSRP, and could have very well have paid 60K for an 80K car.

One point that I missed, the use is for around 50% music and 50% TV and movies, but I LOVE musical speakers, and really crave loud and clean bright high frequencies with a tight and punchy midrange. If not, the bass of the SVS dominates the arena.
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post #13 of 35 Old 10-01-2012, 03:58 PM - Thread Starter
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PS: I LOVE Audioholics, and have purchased a lot from them. Unbeatable prices along with service.
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post #14 of 35 Old 10-01-2012, 04:10 PM - Thread Starter
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PS: This speaker system is replacing a pair of 10-year old Polk RTI series (RTI 70 towers, CSI 40 center, and FXI 30 Bipole/Dipole surrounds). Does anyone have experience with the Polk RTI A9's? The one thing that I did not like about the Polk's that I had is that they were not bright/detailed enough in the high end.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by addictaudio View Post

PS: This speaker system is replacing a pair of 10-year old Polk RTI series (RTI 70 towers, CSI 40 center, and FXI 30 Bipole/Dipole surrounds). Does anyone have experience with the Polk RTI A9's? The one thing that I did not like about the Polk's that I had is that they were not bright/detailed enough in the high end.

I would look at the Focal Chorus, and Monitor Audio Silver series - they both
have good detail.

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post #16 of 35 Old 10-01-2012, 08:50 PM - Thread Starter
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I would look at the Focal Chorus, and Monitor Audio Silver series - they both
have good detail.

Can Focal speakers be purchased online, or do they have to physically be purchased from a dealer?
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Quote:
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Can Focal speakers be purchased online, or do they have to physically be purchased from a dealer?

They are at >
Dedicated Audio
http://dedicatedaudio.com/

MusicDirect
http://www.musicdirect.com/

Spearit Sound
http://spearitsound.com/

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post #18 of 35 Old 10-01-2012, 09:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

They are at >
Dedicated Audio
http://dedicatedaudio.com/
MusicDirect
http://www.musicdirect.com/
Spearit Sound
http://spearitsound.com/

Wow, so many choices, now how to make the right choice, given that I cannot demo any of them? B&W, PSB, Monitor Audio, Focal, Dynaudio, Aperion, and the list goes on and on...
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post #19 of 35 Old 10-02-2012, 10:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Any other suggestions? How does the KEF Q900 towers and such fit in?
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post #20 of 35 Old 10-02-2012, 10:48 AM
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How much money do you have to spend? $3k MSRP doesn't really say much.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

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post #21 of 35 Old 10-02-2012, 10:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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How much money do you have to spend? $3k MSRP doesn't really say much.

I would like to spend up to 2K, which is fesable with quotes that I have received from set-ups that MSRP/retail for around 3K - 3.5K or so, depending upon the structure of each manufacturer and distribution methods.
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post #22 of 35 Old 10-03-2012, 10:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Any other suggestions or input? Please kindly PM me contact information if you all have any personal connections with vendors for the above mentioned brands and set-ups.

Seriously considering the Aperion Versu Grand Tower set-up.
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post #23 of 35 Old 10-03-2012, 01:23 PM - Thread Starter
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OK, between the two set-ups below, which one would you pick based upon my criteria in the first post, and why (NOT taking price as a consideration)?


APERION: Verus Grand Towers, Verus Surrounds, Verus Grand Center

PSB: PSB Image T6's, PSB Image C5, PSB Image S5's
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post #24 of 35 Old 10-03-2012, 06:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Up to the top for the evening.
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post #25 of 35 Old 10-03-2012, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by addictaudio View Post

OK, between the two set-ups below, which one would you pick based upon my criteria in the first post, and why (NOT taking price as a consideration)?
APERION: Verus Grand Towers, Verus Surrounds, Verus Grand Center
PSB: PSB Image T6's, PSB Image C5, PSB Image S5's

My 2 cents
First, both systems are made by well respected companies, so I bet you will be happy with both.

Second, I believe the PSB Imagine line is more comparable to the Versus Grand by price than the Image line.

Finally, what I would do is buy the towers from both and compare for yourselves. The Aperions are risk free and if you buy the PSB locally, you can probably get them to agree to a free return period. Even if you have to pay a little bit to return them, that would be worth it to me to be able to do a direct comparison. Then return the towers you do not like and order the rest of the system from the company you liked better.

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post #26 of 35 Old 10-04-2012, 11:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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My 2 cents
First, both systems are made by well respected companies, so I bet you will be happy with both.
Second, I believe the PSB Imagine line is more comparable to the Versus Grand by price than the Image line.
Finally, what I would do is buy the towers from both and compare for yourselves. The Aperions are risk free and if you buy the PSB locally, you can probably get them to agree to a free return period. Even if you have to pay a little bit to return them, that would be worth it to me to be able to do a direct comparison. Then return the towers you do not like and order the rest of the system from the company you liked better.

Thanks for the suggestion. There are very few dealers in my area. Unfortunately, it will not be an option to get the PSB's on a trial basis, though.

You are correct, it appears like the Aperion Grand Verus tower would compare more to the Image T2, in terms of number of drivers, frequency response, and the use of real wood veneers.
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post #27 of 35 Old 10-04-2012, 03:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Any opinions on the Legacy speakers?
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post #28 of 35 Old 10-04-2012, 07:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Any other options or input?
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post #29 of 35 Old 10-05-2012, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
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Any opinions on the Legacy speakers?

Legacy Audio? Those are great, but most of their models will be out of your price range, except maybe used speakers.

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post #30 of 35 Old 10-05-2012, 10:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Legacy Audio? Those are great, but most of their models will be out of your price range, except maybe used speakers.

I noticed that after the fact, LOL, as they do not list prices on their website:) Still searching. All opinions and advice are welcomed.
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