Vienna Acoustics Haydn Grand Bookshelf Speakers... worth $1400? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 36 Old 10-02-2012, 09:44 PM - Thread Starter
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I am thinking of getting a pair of these in January to replace my Cambridge Audio Minx speakers and want to know if they are worth their asking price and if I need a subwoofer or not.

I have listened to similar sized bookshelves from Focal and Paradigm and the bass is very good, even without a sub. I want to avoid a sub since I rent and need as much space as I can get. The room I'm renting now is not that large, about 12 x 11.

The white Viennas caught my eye but I don't know if they are worth it, I listen to music daily, 1-3 hrs, and I would opt to listen to music than watch a film if I had to choose for the week.
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post #2 of 36 Old 10-02-2012, 10:31 PM
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They are certainly worth it.
Theyre truelly a great speaker sonically and visually.
The bass is well produced (but if you wan a little extra punch add a sunfire sds 8 or cambridge audio minx x 300

What amplifier will you be running them with?
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post #3 of 36 Old 10-03-2012, 08:05 AM
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Which ones are we talking about - the Grands or the Grand SE?

If Grands, these are very good speakers but $1400 pair is pretty high. So I assume these are brand new. The MRSP was only $1500. With the SE's now out, I would expect a dealer to give more than $100 off a brand new pair of Grands. If used, I have seen mint pairs for for about 50% off list - $750 pair.

The bass is tight and fast, very impressive for pair of bookshelf models. They are 4 ohm, so make sure you have adequate high current power to get their woofers to show you what they can do. In a small room, I don't think you would need a sub.

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post #4 of 36 Old 10-03-2012, 12:07 PM
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What type of music do you listen to? What does the rest of your system consist of? As far as a sub is concerned, I like REL subs. Some can be small and they don't call attention to themselves. But, considering your room situation, you may be satisfied with just the speakers only. Of everything that you've heard, what is it about the Haydens that you like? What electronics were they using when you heard them?
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post #5 of 36 Old 10-07-2012, 08:43 PM - Thread Starter
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I will not be using an amp, just a mid range AV receiver, the Onkyo TX-NR609.

I listen to a whole variety of music, likely most having bass of some sort.

Suzanne Vega, Alice in Chains, Megadeth, Kesha, electronic stuff, A Perfect Circle, Shawn Colvin, Beatles....
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post #6 of 36 Old 10-08-2012, 08:47 AM
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You may not like this answer but as a VA Bach Grand owner, here is my opinion based on experience with Viennas..

For the type of music you like with a preference for bass, the Onyko 609 is not a good match for the Haydns. Also you say you prefer not to use a sub. The Haydn, either Grand or SE, is a 4 OHM speaker and at only 89 db sensitivity will require a lot more power and current to show you what they can really do. And why not get the most out of a great pair of speakers, especially at what you are considering to spend on them as indicated in your orginal post. Also if you go this route, and you are not pleased wit the results, your stuck because the Onyko does not have pre-outs for a dedicated amp to power the Haydns. I think the Focal and Paradigms you heard are a much better match with your receiver as they are far more efficient and 8 OHM speakers.

But If you really insist on pairing your AVR with the Haydns, then consider a sub. This will help with the bottom end. Good luck in what ever route you follow.

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post #7 of 36 Old 10-08-2012, 09:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you, that was very informative. I think either Focal or Paradigms will do, but I heard B&W makes speakers that rival to Paradigms. How are B&W speakers, in general, with the Onkyo receiver (I don't want to sell this and get another AVR, not for 2 years from now anyways)?
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post #8 of 36 Old 10-09-2012, 08:17 AM
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Glad it helped. B&W bookshelves, 600 & CM series are comparable to Focal 700 & 800 series in impedence & sensitive. Both brands are 8 OHMs nominal and will work better with your Onkyo than the Viennas. The Paradigms, either the Monitor or Studio series are the most efficient. All three brands are a better match for your AVR and I would select comparable models from each and start doing some serious listening. Further they are all quality products so problem here. But they do sound different from one another. Its up to you to find out which is the best sound for you so audition whereever possible. Good luck.

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post #9 of 36 Old 10-19-2012, 02:41 PM
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I have an HK 3490, and at 4 ohms it specs out as follows:

150 Watts x 2, both channels driven at full power at 4 ohms,
20Hz – 20kHz, <0.2% THD; 300 watts total

At 8 ohms:

120 Watts x 2, both channels driven at full power at 8 ohms,
20Hz – 20kHz, <0.07% THD; 240 watts total

I found a pair of Hadyn Grands used for $750. Would this tend to be a better option than the 8 ohm alternatives provided above considering my receiver?

Thanks for your help!
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post #10 of 36 Old 10-19-2012, 03:00 PM
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The HK 3490 is a powerful receiver that is not afraid to post its specs in 4 Ohms. And the specs are impressive. Your receiver will have no problem driving the Haydn Grands and getting the most out of them. Go for it and the price seems good provided the sepakers are in mint condition. Check the cabinets as well as the drivers themselves. Make sure there are no dents in the domes and the surrounds around the woofer are intact and secure. Try and hear them if possible.

Finally the Hayns Grands are front ported so make sure you use quality strands to support their weight. Vienna have very robust build quality. Good luck - it should be a fine pairing.

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post #11 of 36 Old 10-19-2012, 03:02 PM
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Fantastic! Thanks so much for the input!
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post #12 of 36 Old 10-19-2012, 03:06 PM
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Fantastic! Thanks so much for the input!
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post #13 of 36 Old 10-19-2012, 10:10 PM
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I have a pair of the original Haydns. I'm not a fan. Because of the way the speakers are phased, there's a huge gap in frequency response around 2KHz. The speakers sound muffled to me. It's possible that newer ones fix this, but I doubt it. If you do decide to use Haydns, try to place them fairly high, or tilt them back. Normally speakers sound best right in front of the tweeter, but because of the specific characteristic of the VA speakers they sound better somewhat below that line.
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post #14 of 36 Old 10-20-2012, 12:49 PM
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I tried these years ago along with the matching center. I liked them but I had a Yamaha AVR2400 that completely choked with these speakers . It got like a stove to the touch and would shut down at moderate volumes.

I feel VA requires a separate amp to sound their best but to each his own. You may get sound with some AVRs but my in home demo said otherwise.

I really really like these for stereo but the center sounded a bit veiled. Perhaps lack of a better amp and the comment in post above has some merritt .

Rick

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post #15 of 36 Old 01-01-2013, 10:34 AM
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I am considering picking up a set of Haydn's or B&W CM1 (Wharfedale Diamond 10.1/10.2 were suggested also). How do these compare to one another? Are they pretty comparable? I still need to pick a sub to complement. I don't have a receiver for this yet either. It seems like most of them are 8 ohm rather than the 4 ohm.
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post #16 of 36 Old 01-03-2013, 05:09 PM
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Im considering a pair Haydn grand bookshelf at $1,300/pair and they can offer me a deal if I get the center too. Sounds interesting since I would have never considered them thinking they would be more expensive. Will go and audition them maybe next week. Also considering the paradigm s20 v5 and the Polk LSiM 703. Any other speaker worth considering? I wanted to demo the KEF R300 but I can't find a dealer in my area.

In any case, I have an Onkyo TX-SR705, which has pre-outs but I can't buy a power amp until maybe next year, So I'm hoping it can handle the load in the mean time. My room is also small at around 11.5ft x 13.5ft.

I plan on using them on their own for two channel and cross them at 80hz to my sub for movies. Do you guys think my amp can power the Vienna Bookshelf?

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post #17 of 36 Old 01-03-2013, 05:33 PM
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I have wondered myself what is the big deal with the Vienna Accoustics brand. they are pricey. I see them used a lot online, but most of the time only have one speaker. This is strange. I have read post on here about onkyo not liking 4 ohm speakers always. One guy had problems with his monitor audio speakers and the receiver. the onkyo kept going into protection mode and shutting down. since vienna are 4ohms, if I were you I wouldn't bother with them. I would go for a good speaker that is 8 ohms. I just got a nad c326bee and it even gets warm sometimes. i hope that it last at least the two year warranty.
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post #18 of 36 Old 01-03-2013, 05:34 PM
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when I heard the arcam receiver I asked the worker if I could hear the vienna accoustics speakers. they didn't want to hook them up for me. I don't see a lot of dealers that even have them in the show room.
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post #19 of 36 Old 01-03-2013, 05:44 PM
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Being a VA owner, of course I am going to recommend the Haydn Grands over the other two. But I would still encourage you to audition all of them. What sounds best to me may not be the best sound for you.

I think you would be OK with your receiver. From the specs you posted, it is rated at handling 4 Ohm speakers. And you'll be crossing them over to a sub from time to time in a relatively small room. Finally, the good news is that if you do go with the Haydns and for some reason the Onkyo doesn't work out, you have the pre-outs to add an amp. It should be comforting to know you have this flexibility for an upgrade in the future. If you like the sound of the Viennas the best during your auditions, then go for it.

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post #20 of 36 Old 01-03-2013, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keyboardcat View Post

I have wondered myself what is the big deal with the Vienna Accoustics brand. they are pricey. I see them used a lot online, but most of the time only have one speaker. This is strange. I have read post on here about onkyo not liking 4 ohm speakers always. One guy had problems with his monitor audio speakers and the receiver. the onkyo kept going into protection mode and shutting down. since vienna are 4ohms, if I were you I wouldn't bother with them. I would go for a good speaker that is 8 ohms. I just got a nad c326bee and it even gets warm sometimes. i hope that it last at least the two year warranty.

You should listen to a pair and then you would know. They are an extremely smooth, warm speaker along the lines of Sonus Faber and some Dynaudios. Further, VA's have great bass response without a sub.

Curious...why would you recommend to a potential buyer of Haydn Grands not to bother when by your own admisison in you have never heard them?

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post #21 of 36 Old 01-03-2013, 06:04 PM
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because I thought that maybe his onkyo couldn't handl;e 4ohms like the other guys. I like your rca dog picture. I will try to be more open minded about the brand Paraneer.
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post #22 of 36 Old 01-03-2013, 06:06 PM
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is focal as good as people say that it is Paraneer? I hear a lot of people brag about them. I wish that I could hear them.
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post #23 of 36 Old 01-03-2013, 06:08 PM
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If he decides to get the vienna speakers what would be a good power amp for him?
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post #24 of 36 Old 01-03-2013, 06:36 PM
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No problem Kat. Just don't be open minded about VA's - be open minded about any product that you have not heard or have experience with. I for one seldom post unless it pertains to a piece of gear I either own, have owned or have direct experience with. And I would never question an item that I have never heard.

If you look at eliwankenobi's post, he clearly states the specs of his Onkyo and it is 4 Ohm rated. I think he will be fine.

WRT to Focals, lets not derail this thread. Its is about VA Haydn Grands; not Focals. The ones I have heard, I like. They are a good speaker. I suggest you ask in the Focal owners thread to learn more about them.

Finally, regarding an amp, we should let eliwankenobi inquire about this when he is ready to get one. His Onkyo may do such a good job, it won't come to this. Thanks for liking my avatar Kat. I like Nipper and the Grammaphone too.

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post #25 of 36 Old 01-03-2013, 06:44 PM
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I haven't heard these particular VA speakers, but VA speakers in general are very musical and warm but not the easiest do drive. If you want good bass from a monitor, I'd recommend Dynaudio, but they are even harder to drive than VA. For good efficient speakers with decent bass I would recommend Focal. They are very receiver friendly but on the brighter side. B&Ws seem to be hit or miss in my book. I had a pair of their entry level DM302s years ago and they were great, but their other offerings haven't impressed me much except for the flagship 800 series.

If going for a more demanding speaker like VA or Dynaudio, consider a nice integrated amp. There are some great deals used. Still, your Onkyo is a decent receiver and you might be okay with the results.
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post #26 of 36 Old 01-03-2013, 06:47 PM
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true paraneer he might like the sound out of the onkyo and may not need a power amp. Do you remember when Sears used to give away the cute RCA dogs if you bought certain Rca projection tvs. I found one of the nipper dogs at a thrift store once. I forget what happened to it though. I think that it may be at my old house somewhere in the attic. If he does decide on the Vienna acoustics speakers I would like to see his thoughts on if he liked them.
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post #27 of 36 Old 01-03-2013, 06:50 PM
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justin I agree with you on the b&w speakers being hit or miss. I was impressed with some at the stores, but others not so much. justin do you think that the vienna speakers are a much better choice for him then b&w?
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post #28 of 36 Old 01-03-2013, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keyboardcat View Post

justin I agree with you on the b&w speakers being hit or miss. I was impressed with some at the stores, but others not so much. justin do you think that the vienna speakers are a much better choice for him then b&w?

From what I've heard of the recent B&W 600s and CMs I would take the Haydn (I haven't heard the SE but I have heard the older one) over any of them, but everyone has their own preferences. VAs aren't exactly screaming deals, but if you consider the veneers and build quality, they're fairly priced. B&Ws have always seemed overpriced to me and the new ones, based on the knuckle rap test and place of assembly, seem even more so.
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post #29 of 36 Old 01-03-2013, 07:02 PM
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I think that the b&w are overpriced also.
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post #30 of 36 Old 01-03-2013, 07:53 PM
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Thanks Paraneer,

I like your avatar too.

If I end up liking the VAs I hope my Onkyo ends up working good with it until I can get an amp. I was thinking an Emotiva XPA-3 for the front stage. I plan of auditioning all of the speakers before coming to a decision.

My dealer also sells Sonus Faber, he mentioned some models but don't remember it at the moment. Will check them out too if they are in the range.

Thanks again

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