KEF LS50 Owners - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 1044 Old 03-05-2013, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by techblogpool View Post

Hi, the problem is, your Marantz is unable to power these speakers and control them well enough. I suggest you buy a separate power amp and connect it to your pre-out and drive the speakers this way.

Interesting. I was browsing this weekend looking for some integrated amps and stumbled on a user’s experience with his LS50 using an Emotiva mini-x100 amp…actually, quite similar to your experience. I ended up ordering one, not only for its price and small form factor, but also if the amp ends up not being sufficient enough then I can just use it for the bedroom, once I finally retire my NHTs with it. Yup, you heard that – I ‘m finally moving my NHTs out of my HT room. It had a good run…20 years from Jeff Beck to Astrud…and yes Michelle Pfeiffer's voice. I remember back in the days when choosing between a PSB, Paradigm, and Superzero - her husky bedroom voice was all I needed to hear and was the deciding factor coming out of that speaker biggrin.gif

This KEF though is in a different league. It’s not just a speaker – when I played a cello piece it was not only sound coming out a speaker. I never heard anything like it, since the Sonus Faber Cremonas…rather I felt as if the instrument itself was playing right in front of me smile.gif



Anyway, here’s what this Emotiva user has to say:

“Remember when stereo amplifiers were only tubed? At the time two amplifiers were regarded amont the top, and almost classified as juggernauts: the monoblock Dynaco Mk III rated at 60 watts RMS, and the McIntosh 275 rated at 75 watts per channel RMS.
Then came the Dynaco Stereo 120, which weighed less than ONE Mk III for the same power output. That is efficiency and friendly customer design.

About fifty years later we think of 60 watts per channel as "almost small". So, in comes the Emotiva "miniX a-100", with 50 watts-per-channel at 8 ohms, or, 80 watts-per-channel at 4 ohms. The amplifier-type circuit is AB, used in the vast majority of amplifiers on the market. It is not Type A, nor Digital type.

Replacing a 26-year-old, weathered Hafler DH-220, this "a-100" came in timely fashion. Two weeks after receiving one pair of KEF LS50 flagship speakers (which replaced two loved but damaged Paradigm Active/20 speakers).

The "a-100" IS a power amplifier, in the same vein as other "basic power amplifiers". BUT it is MUCH more than that. Flexibility is its name: three different ON / OFF possibilities, one completely manual, plus one triggered alternative, plus sensitivity to an audio signal, with ability to pass on to other amplifiers connected in "daisy-chain" style.

It can work as an "integrated amplifier" controlling the volume of fixed level audio sources connected to it.

It can drive speakers of average efficiency to satisfying levels as a main amplifier, and can be used as a zone amplifier also. The cosmetic presentation is elegant but not ostentatious, with blue LED around its volume control (doubling as an improbable fault indicator in amber color). It also has a circuit to protect the amplifier and speakers.

Stretching its muscles with difficutl program material hardly got it to show an "operating temperature", which was much cooler than "warm". But it has a built-in fan for the improbable occasion of high temperature.

This amplifier is just the recipe for the KEF LS50, insofar as the speakers work at 4 ohms for much of their operating range (as noted by Stereophile magazine), and the "a-100" amplifier serves out its strongest output at 4 ohms.

Auditioning the amplifier/speaker combo with LPs and DVD movies, included jazz, symphonic music, rock, pops, movie dialogue (quite important to separate good from lesser speakers on male voices), and assorted sound effects.

In my small studio (about 15 Ft X 17 Ft X 12 Ft) this combination exceeded all expectations with an IMPOSING sense of POWER and full-range neutral tone. Full sense of ease even in demanding musical phrases, and a sense of delicacy in softer phrases. I can still hear the strong "sforzandos" in Beethoven's Third symphony, and the delicacy of Tony Bennet singing "If I Love Again", or his brash swagger in "I Wanna Be around".

And, the Emotiva company ARE a new business model for the 21st Century, with wildly good products at amazing prices. AND friendly Customer Service, a CRITICAL ingredient to continue doing business. They even have a very popular customer blog, and do cyclical Emotiva-Fest gatherings for making live music and sharing friendly banter.

Great!"
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post #92 of 1044 Old 03-05-2013, 12:41 PM
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There are several comments about some common AVR's not working well with the LS-50.

The only solutions presented so far are 2-channel amps.

Can anyone recommend a 5.1 (or 7.1) AVR solution that would work well with LS-50s in HT setup?
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post #93 of 1044 Old 03-05-2013, 01:09 PM
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I have a Parasound Halo a52 Its a 5 ch amp I use for my HT and ran it threw the Ls50's and they sound beautiful ! As I mentioned in a previous post i'm just using a Nad 326bee 2ch amp for the 50's normally and its a sweet combo.
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post #94 of 1044 Old 03-05-2013, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdg4vfx View Post

There are several comments about some common AVR's not working well with the LS-50.

The only solutions presented so far are 2-channel amps.

Can anyone recommend a 5.1 (or 7.1) AVR solution that would work well with LS-50s in HT setup?

I ran my denon 3312ci AVR with these until my peachtree came in.
They sounded great in my larger media room, only used them for 2ch listening with the AVR. no home theater.

125wpc avr (prolly around 80 rms?)
I posted youtubes from it, the results were good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lSV_oGgYaM

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post #95 of 1044 Old 03-05-2013, 01:39 PM
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Last post of the previous page I mentioned a subwoofer. Any recommendations?

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post #96 of 1044 Old 03-05-2013, 01:50 PM
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quote name="RyanA3" url="/t/1432153/kef-ls50-owners/90#post_23044504"]Last post of the previous page I mentioned a subwoofer. Any recommendations?[/quote] SVS PB 13 or PB 12 plus
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post #97 of 1044 Old 03-05-2013, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanA3 View Post

KEF LS50
47Hz ->

I will end up bringing a small sub into my 2 channel room - for certain rock music, when I just want that extra thump. Unfortunately it's range is only 38 Hz and up to 150 Hz.
Since I am not using an AVR, but an integrated without bass mgmt, where would you set the crossover on this sub?

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post #98 of 1044 Old 03-05-2013, 02:45 PM
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more female vocalist youtube action
these speakers love them
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYehxEpK1js


and the who
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFyBesOAFk4
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post #99 of 1044 Old 03-05-2013, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by RyanA3 View Post

I think I would try 100 to 120 and go from there . Set it to what sounds best to your ears . Great vids btw !
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post #100 of 1044 Old 03-06-2013, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by gelly View Post

Like i said im no expert. But i have my F L/R LS50's hooked up to my Marantz SR7005 and they sound amazing. Both a low levels and high levels. And I haven't even re-run Audessy yet(waiting for center LS50 to arrive).
Hey there gelly. Happy u r satisfied! Do you by any chance have an integrated amp u could compare your Marantz to? Would be awesome to know your thoughts on this! In my case specifically, I heard them in the shop and the sound was just astounding! So I bought them the very instant, cause I had to have that "sound" at home. But at home.., it was just not the same. So I went looking for the answer why? And found out my Denon was the culprit. I would not say they sounded bad by any means, just not as unbelievably great as in the shop. If you get a chance to compare with a stereo integrated amp, I would really appreciate your opinion on the sound difference.

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post #101 of 1044 Old 03-06-2013, 05:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdg4vfx View Post

There are several comments about some common AVR's not working well with the LS-50.

The only solutions presented so far are 2-channel amps.

Can anyone recommend a 5.1 (or 7.1) AVR solution that would work well with LS-50s in HT setup?

Hey there, yes, there is a 5,1/7,1 solution. All you need is to think outside of the traditional all in one AVR box. You need a digital processor, which is a box that handles your HDMI inputs and decodes all of your HD audio, video signals and also acts as a pre-amplifier. Next you need a 5/7monoblock power amp that you hook up to your speakers.

A fairly cheap AV processor that comes to mind is AUDIOLAB 8200 AP. A fairly cheap 6x monoblock power amp is for e.g. Rotel RMB-1506 Multi-Ch. P/Amp- EC. Going 7x is quite a bit more expensive, for e.g. NAD M25.

Anyhow, this solution would give you of the benefits of an AV receiver (most of the digital features) and the power to drive the speakers.

This is just an example and there are plenty of possible companies and variations, these just came to my mind. The gist being you need an AV processor and power amp.

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post #102 of 1044 Old 03-06-2013, 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted by RyanA3 View Post

Hey there RyanA3, this largely depends on your sound preferences and your room acoustics. The speakers themselves are OK down to 40-45hz, below that and the membrane just flops back to front producing no sound. The question is, do you want to go that low? How good is your sub? How does your room respond to your sub vs your speakers? How far from the wall are your speakers?

If I may suggest, try to get hold of a test CD, or at least WAV samples of tones at 150, 140, 130.., down to 20hz and play them with your speakers only, then with your sub only and listen to the room acoustics and your preference, make notes and afterwards decide asking yourself.., where do I draw the line, after which I prefer the sound of my SUB to my speakers.

This is the best thing you can possibly do.

If you are having trouble finding such samples, send me a PM, I may be able to find something at home.

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post #103 of 1044 Old 03-06-2013, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by techblogpool View Post

Hey there, yes, there is a 5,1/7,1 solution. All you need is to think outside of the traditional all in one AVR box. You need a digital processor, which is a box that handles your HDMI inputs and decodes all of your HD audio, video signals and also acts as a pre-amplifier. Next you need a 5/7monoblock power amp that you hook up to your speakers.

A fairly cheap AV processor that comes to mind is AUDIOLAB 8200 AP. A fairly cheap 6x monoblock power amp is for e.g. Rotel RMB-1506 Multi-Ch. P/Amp- EC. Going 7x is quite a bit more expensive, for e.g. NAD M25.

Anyhow, this solution would give you of the benefits of an AV receiver (most of the digital features) and the power to drive the speakers.

This is just an example and there are plenty of possible companies and variations, these just came to my mind. The gist being you need an AV processor and power amp.

Hi "techblogpool,
I have a ADCOM GFA-555ms hooked in my marants sr 7005 zone 2 to power my multi room. Not very tech savoy, but if someone can tell me how to use this amp with my KEF LS50's (im pretty sure i need to hook the speakers up to the Adcom, but what input on the marantz do I hook the Adcom into?) I'd give it a try.
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post #104 of 1044 Old 03-06-2013, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by gelly View Post

Hi "techblogpool,
I have a ADCOM GFA-555ms hooked in my marants sr 7005 zone 2 to power my multi room. Not very tech savoy, but if someone can tell me how to use this amp with my KEF LS50's (im pretty sure i need to hook the speakers up to the Adcom, but what input on the marantz do I hook the Adcom into?) I'd give it a try.

Hey there, I made a simple schematic for you. Please excuse my primitive painting skills. smile.gif

Can't wait for you to try it out!

Also, please check the left/right speaker placement and connection. smile.gif

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post #105 of 1044 Old 03-06-2013, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by techblogpool View Post

Hey there, I made a simple schematic for you. Please excuse my primitive painting skills. smile.gif

Can't wait for you to try it out!

Also, please check the left/right speaker placement and connection. smile.gif

Thanks, a couple of questions: What is the name of that input on the marantz?
If i have my center/rears and sub hooked up will they all work together?
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post #106 of 1044 Old 03-06-2013, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by gelly View Post

Thanks, a couple of questions: What is the name of that input on the marantz?
If i have my center/rears and sub hooked up will they all work together?

Actually, you need to connect your Adcom to the pre-out on Marantz. This would be the left/right pre-out ports.
Yes, the center and surrounds should all work together with the fronts powered by the Adcom.

However, I haven't tried the pre-amp feature on a Marantz/Denon yet, so your experience will be valuable to me!

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post #107 of 1044 Old 03-06-2013, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Ximori View Post

Interesting. I was browsing this weekend looking for some integrated amps and stumbled on a user’s experience with his LS50 using an Emotiva mini-x100 amp…actually, quite similar to your experience. I ended up ordering one, not only for its price and small form factor, but also if the amp ends up not being sufficient enough then I can just use it for the bedroom, once I finally retire my NHTs with it.

The mini-x100 is basically two AVR amp cards in its own box. If you're using it because you need a small amp with front-mounted volume control, then it makes perfect sense with LS50's. (If you don't need the front-mounted volume control, the Parasound Zamp v3 is probably a better choice for a mini-amp.) If you're using it to supplement an AVR, that's silly. Many AVRs are more powerful than the baby Emo.

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post #108 of 1044 Old 03-06-2013, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFactor View Post

I think I would try 100 to 120 and go from there . Set it to what sounds best to your ears . Great vids btw !

thanks for the tip and the compliment. cheers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by techblogpool View Post

Hey there RyanA3, this largely depends on your sound preferences and your room acoustics.

cool thx for the info and offer!
what is your background and setup?

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post #109 of 1044 Old 03-06-2013, 08:26 AM
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thanks for the tip and the compliment. cheers.
cool thx for the info and offer!
what is your background and setup?

You are welcome and I do mean it.

I am just a guy who trusts his ears, have been an audio/video/computer/tech geek ever since I can remember. I constantly strive for better, sound and video quality, within my budget of course. :-)
I would call myself an audiophile, if it meant pure love for great quality sound.

My current setup is the Denon AVR-2113 with DBT-1713UD for films and NAD C320 for music hooked up to the KEF LS50s for fronts and my old, cheep&cheerful Yamaha NS C-444 center and NS C-333 surrounds. I have an old JAMO sub, but can't recall the model number. My telly is a SONY KDL-55HX850. I also have a PS3 as a back-up player when the Denon spits out a random blu-ray disk. smile.gif and a PC for playing MKV files and a Mac for streaming media.

I am waiting for new speaker stands for the KEFs. Afterwards I would love to post a pic of my setup here.

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post #110 of 1044 Old 03-06-2013, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by techblogpool View Post

I am waiting for new speaker stands for the KEFs. Afterwards I would love to post a pic of my setup here.

What speaker stands are you getting for your LS50's? Although I've decided to just place them on the ends of my media console, I was searching for stands for a while and couldn't seem to find any that were visually appealing. Seemed like all the good ones are sold in the UK. Almost decided to build my own, too.

Would like to post my own setup pic, too, but I'm still waiting for my remaining speakers to arrive. =(
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post #111 of 1044 Old 03-06-2013, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

The mini-x100 is basically two AVR amp cards in its own box. If you're using it because you need a small amp with front-mounted volume control, then it makes perfect sense with LS50's. (If you don't need the front-mounted volume control, the Parasound Zamp v3 is probably a better choice for a mini-amp.) If you're using it to supplement an AVR, that's silly. Many AVRs are more powerful than the baby Emo.

I was planning on using it for another room to drive another set of speakers (in which you probably already know by now) and a small sub. So I need that volume control;).
More importanly, you don't think I would get any, or even slight, performance gain if I supplement this mini x amp to my front LR channel in my avr, which I have no plans of replacing anytime soon? I wanted to try that out first. And besides the Parasound being a bit more expensive, what does it have internally that makes it better - because they look similarly spec'd (on paper, at least).

Btw, your last comment sounds silly to me...so are you saying that I should just replace my avr with a more powerful one, instead?
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post #112 of 1044 Old 03-06-2013, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by techblogpool View Post

Hey there RyanA3, this largely depends on your sound preferences and your room acoustics. The speakers themselves are OK down to 40-45hz, below that and the membrane just flops back to front producing no sound. The question is, do you want to go that low? How good is your sub? How does your room respond to your sub vs your speakers? How far from the wall are your speakers?

If I may suggest, try to get hold of a test CD, or at least WAV samples of tones at 150, 140, 130.., down to 20hz and play them with your speakers only, then with your sub only and listen to the room acoustics and your preference, make notes and afterwards decide asking yourself.., where do I draw the line, after which I prefer the sound of my SUB to my speakers.

This is the best thing you can possibly do.

If you are having trouble finding such samples, send me a PM, I may be able to find something at home.

This is a good suggestion. I think 100-120 Hz crossover is too high for a speaker of this caliber. I hate to miss out what the LS50 can do down in the mid to low bass region and allow your sub to handle it, unless it’s a very good sub. When I ran Audyssey it configured my crossover point to 40, which I thought was too low. So I changed it to 60…but that would really depend with your room acoustics. Anyhow, I think key here is to get the most quality out of what this speaker can handle (if you have enough juice in your amp) and leave the rest out for the sub to handle. And a more capable sub would be one that can handle below the crossover point digging deeper down to 20s. Of course, I could be wrong. smile.gif

So, in his case, I probably would do a sub crawl first to find that sweet spot where the sub doesn’t get localized and boomy and then make optimal adjustments.
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post #113 of 1044 Old 03-06-2013, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by techblogpool View Post

Actually, you need to connect your Adcom to the pre-out on Marantz. This would be the left/right pre-out ports.
Yes, the center and surrounds should all work together with the fronts powered by the Adcom.

However, I haven't tried the pre-amp feature on a Marantz/Denon yet, so your experience will be valuable to me!

Thanks, So will the Adcom automatically starting driving the speakers when i turn on a source on the marantz? Do i have to activate anything else on the Marantz?
Also, lets assume this sounds better. If i want to listen to just 2 channel music with my sub "ll need to turn on the Adcom for my LS50's and Marantz for the sub?
will I need another amp to power my multi room set up(as mention the are hooked into a niles speaker selector which is hooked into my adcom then into my marantz and turned on to zone 2.)?
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post #114 of 1044 Old 03-06-2013, 11:03 AM
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thanks for the tip and the compliment. cheers.
cool thx for the info and offer!
what is your background and setup?
Your very Welcome !!
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post #115 of 1044 Old 03-06-2013, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AUDIOgiant View Post

What speaker stands are you getting for your LS50's? Although I've decided to just place them on the ends of my media console, I was searching for stands for a while and couldn't seem to find any that were visually appealing. Seemed like all the good ones are sold in the UK. Almost decided to build my own, too.

Would like to post my own setup pic, too, but I'm still waiting for my remaining speakers to arrive. =(
I'm using stands made by def tech for there 450's and they match great .Also are nice solid stands. I've got pics floating around here on this thread .
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post #116 of 1044 Old 03-06-2013, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by AUDIOgiant View Post

What speaker stands are you getting for your LS50's? Although I've decided to just place them on the ends of my media console, I was searching for stands for a while and couldn't seem to find any that were visually appealing. Seemed like all the good ones are sold in the UK. Almost decided to build my own, too.

I'm using these Sanus stands (UF30 Ultimate stands), filled with simple playground sand. They aren't cheap but they do the trick and I like the looks of them.

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post #117 of 1044 Old 03-06-2013, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by RyanA3 View Post

Last post of the previous page I mentioned a subwoofer. Any recommendations?

What is your budget?

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Originally Posted by Ximori View Post

I think 100-120 Hz crossover is too high for a speaker of this caliber....So I changed it to 60…but that would really depend with your room acoustics.


I would start at 60 then work your way up. In my main system I run BE-718 monitors and use a Velodyne SMS to manage my JL Audio sub, the SMS is fixed at 80.
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post #118 of 1044 Old 03-06-2013, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by K Shep View Post

I'm using these Sanus stands (UF30 Ultimate stands), filled with simple playground sand. They aren't cheap but they do the trick and I like the looks of them.

CREATOR: gd-jpeg v1.0 (using IJG JPEG v62), default quality
Those are nice looking stands and if I may add for those who dont know when filling your stands .Its always best to use panty hose to keep the sand from leaking out .Also cat litter makes a great filler to .
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post #119 of 1044 Old 03-06-2013, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by K Shep View Post

What is your budget?
I would start at 60 then work your way up. In my main system I run BE-718 monitors and use a Velodyne SMS to manage my JL Audio sub, the SMS is fixed at 80.

I will try that. I already have a sub, I just need to get into my storage to retrieve it.
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post #120 of 1044 Old 03-06-2013, 11:59 AM
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Heres the best pic I could find of my Def Tech stands
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