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post #1351 of 1368 Old 05-07-2015, 01:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pablolie View Post
.......I think the LS50 are the best speakers ever produced, dollar for dollar, and shame many far more expensive designs with their utter accuracy and their ability to be fun.
Agreed imagine a room with LS-50 all around




So here is the damage for a room full of KEFS

- 22 KEF LS50 $16,499.89
- 6 KEF Ci200RR-THX Ultimate In-Ceiling Speaker $4,799.94
- 4 Subs KEF R400b $6,799.96

Or we could go all in wall and all in ceiling but then there would be no option to have them in a circle

Last edited by wse; 05-07-2015 at 04:24 PM.
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post #1352 of 1368 Old 05-07-2015, 04:13 PM
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post #1353 of 1368 Old 05-07-2015, 04:20 PM
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I sold my M-DAC and looking to possibly pickup the Oppo HA-1 or something else up to $1,500. What else are you people using?

I am temporarily using just the built-in DAC on the Asus motherboard in my PC and the LS50s are not happy...
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post #1354 of 1368 Old 05-08-2015, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wgerman View Post
I asked this question on the KEF general forum but got no replies, so I will ask here. Many here have a LS50/Sub setup. Did you ever consider the KEF R500? To those who have heard the KEF R500, how does it compare to the LS50?
I own the R500s, which I originally purchased to serve my 2ch setup in my livingroom. I recently rearranged the livingroom and the R500 didnt fit in a logical place so I put them downstairs for front L/R in my HT setup. I bought a pair of LS50 today with the thought that they would either serve as a great set of speakers for my 2ch listening upstairs, or they would be a nice addition to the HT setup downstairs.

Having listened for a few hours I am really torn. I feel that for the frequencies that the LS50 can reproduce, it somehow sounds better than the R500. The R500 digs much deeper though, and the LS50 can feel somewhat hollow for certain genres of music. I honestly don't know what to do now as the LS50 have greatly exceeded my expectations. I do much prefer the R500 aesthetics, and I think that if you listen to skrillex or pipe organ music you will need a subwoofer no matter which speaker you end up using.

Hope that helps.
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post #1355 of 1368 Old 05-11-2015, 07:11 PM
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LS 50 or R200c as center channel if cost is same? FRs are LS50s
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post #1356 of 1368 Old 05-11-2015, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by nakenergy View Post
LS 50 or R200c as center channel if cost is same? FRs are LS50s
Hi nakenergy,

If you plan on using state of the art room equalization (REQ) algorithms for the front left, center and front right speakers, then going with R200c + LS50 is doable. This is because the REQ will try and equalize each speaker in the room to a target curve.

If you don't plan on using REQ, then making the front sound stage (front left, center and front right) identical is a smarter move. The reason being that during panning sequences within the sound track it would be smoother since they are identical speakers. I.e. you would not notice tonal differences between the front left, center and front right that could be distracting.

Personally, would go with 3xLS50 for the front sound stage.

Note that the R200c has a lower -3dB point (can crossover at a lower frequency), better efficiency of 87dB/W/m, higher power handling ability (max power of 150W), higher SPL of 117dB and a lower vertical profile to fit below a TV. If these are important to you.

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post #1357 of 1368 Old 05-11-2015, 09:02 PM - Thread Starter
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If I ever do a dedicated room with in walls so that I can have 28 speakers and four subs here is what I would use.










Total = $40,999
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post #1358 of 1368 Old 05-11-2015, 09:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Or I could just use these Ci200RR-THX Ultimate In-Ceiling Speaker all around 28 speakers & four subs Ci3160RLb-THX Subwoofer In-Wall Ultra2/Select2

For $26,399.68

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post #1359 of 1368 Old 05-11-2015, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post
Or I could just use these Ci200RR-THX Ultimate In-Ceiling Speaker all around 28 speakers & four subs Ci3160RLb-THX Subwoofer In-Wall Ultra2/Select2

For $26,399.68

I don't see what the problem is....


lol j/k.


Those are beautiful in-wall speakers, tho. No doubt about that.
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post #1360 of 1368 Old 05-12-2015, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by steveting99 View Post
Hi nakenergy,

If you plan on using state of the art room equalization (REQ) algorithms for the front left, center and front right speakers, then going with R200c + LS50 is doable. This is because the REQ will try and equalize each speaker in the room to a target curve.

If you don't plan on using REQ, then making the front sound stage (front left, center and front right) identical is a smarter move. The reason being that during panning sequences within the sound track it would be smoother since they are identical speakers. I.e. you would not notice tonal differences between the front left, center and front right that could be distracting.

Personally, would go with 3xLS50 for the front sound stage.

Note that the R200c has a lower -3dB point (can crossover at a lower frequency), better efficiency of 87dB/W/m, higher power handling ability (max power of 150W), higher SPL of 117dB and a lower vertical profile to fit below a TV. If these are important to you.
[QUOTE]If you plan on using state of the art room equalization (REQ) algorithms for the front left, center and front right speakers, then going with R200c + LS50 is doable. This is because the REQ will try and equalize each speaker in the room to a target curve.

If you don't plan on using REQ, then making the front sound stage (front left, center and front right) identical is a smarter move. The reason being that during panning sequences within the sound track it would be smoother since they are identical speakers. I.e. you would not notice tonal differences between the front left, center and front right that could be distracting.

Personally, would go with 3xLS50 for the front sound stage.

Note that the R200c has a lower -3dB point (can crossover at a lower frequency), better efficiency of 87dB/W/m, higher power handling ability (max power of 150W), higher SPL of 117dB and a lower vertical profile to fit below a TV. If these are important to you./QUOTE]

Thanks Steveting99. I am not planning to do REQ and have no issues with vertical profile although I will have to place the LS 50 horizontally. I do think there could be an advantage with R200c as it has additional drivers than the LS50. Anyone with R200c care to chip in? Any idea where I can get one single LS50 priced better than KEFdirect?
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post #1361 of 1368 Old 05-12-2015, 08:30 AM
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[quote=nakenergy;34161402]
Quote:
If you plan on using state of the art room equalization (REQ) algorithms for the front left, center and front right speakers, then going with R200c + LS50 is doable. This is because the REQ will try and equalize each speaker in the room to a target curve.

If you don't plan on using REQ, then making the front sound stage (front left, center and front right) identical is a smarter move. The reason being that during panning sequences within the sound track it would be smoother since they are identical speakers. I.e. you would not notice tonal differences between the front left, center and front right that could be distracting.

Personally, would go with 3xLS50 for the front sound stage.

Note that the R200c has a lower -3dB point (can crossover at a lower frequency), better efficiency of 87dB/W/m, higher power handling ability (max power of 150W), higher SPL of 117dB and a lower vertical profile to fit below a TV. If these are important to you./QUOTE]

Thanks Steveting99. I am not planning to do REQ and have no issues with vertical profile although I will have to place the LS 50 horizontally. I do think there could be an advantage with R200c as it has additional drivers than the LS50. Anyone with R200c care to chip in? Any idea where I can get one single LS50 priced better than KEFdirect?
I have a Kef 4 driver center speaker I much preferred it over the Kef 2 driver center speaker (similar design to LS50)

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post #1362 of 1368 Old 05-27-2015, 09:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Could I drill into the bottom of the LS50 so I can use them for ATMOS, I wanted to use these mounting brackets!

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post #1363 of 1368 Old 05-28-2015, 05:59 PM
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Could I drill into the bottom of the LS50 so I can use them for ATMOS, I wanted to use these mounting brackets!
wse,

Not wanting to discourage you, but it's going to look really ugly because the LS50 are not designed for ceiling mounts. If you're thinking of putting the LS50 as the ceiling speakers to get the height layer to complement the floor level speakers, believe it's a waste of time.

The other important thing to remember is that so far the ceiling speakers are not used much in the Atmos mixes to date. They are silent majority of the time and occasionally make ambient noise during certain parts of the soundtrack. AVS member Keith Barnes did a test where the ceiling speakers were ON and the floor speakers were OFF. He then played back an Atmos movie and was surprised the ceiling speakers were totally silent for the majority of the movie. The surround speakers will be utilized more than the ceiling speakers in the movie.

If you really want to install ceiling speakers that will complement your KEF LS50, have a look at the T-series of speakers which have specific mounts available for wall/ceiling. There are also the custom Ci series for in-ceiling installation from KEF.

Maranatz SR-7009, Oppo BPD-93, MTV 7000D, LG LW6500, aTV, WDTV Live, Harmony 650 remote, KEF E301+T101, MiniDSP(2x4), Emotiva 2xXPA-5 (Gen2), Rythmik 2xF12G+2xF8 (on order), HiMedia Q16 (on order).
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post #1364 of 1368 Old 05-28-2015, 08:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Question

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Originally Posted by steveting99 View Post
wse, Not wanting to discourage you, but it's going to look really ugly because the LS50 are not designed for ceiling mounts. If you're thinking of putting the LS50 as the ceiling speakers to get the height layer to complement the floor level speakers, believe it's a waste of time.

The other important thing to remember is that so far the ceiling speakers are not used much in the Atmos mixes to date. They are silent majority of the time and occasionally make ambient noise during certain parts of the soundtrack. AVS member Keith Barnes did a test where the ceiling speakers were ON and the floor speakers were OFF. He then played back an Atmos movie and was surprised the ceiling speakers were totally silent for the majority of the movie. The surround speakers will be utilized more than the ceiling speakers in the movie.

If you really want to install ceiling speakers that will complement your KEF LS50, have a look at the T-series of speakers which have specific mounts available for wall/ceiling. There are also the custom Ci series for in-ceiling installation from KEF.
Thanks yes the Ci series would be great but I can't put them in ceiling! I thought DSU provided better surround than even ATMOS
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post #1365 of 1368 Old 05-28-2015, 09:09 PM
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I would seriously consider the Kef E series if you can't do in ceiling for Atmos top speakers. I've set one up and it was pretty nice

Hear me now, Listen to me later....
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post #1366 of 1368 Old 05-28-2015, 11:00 PM
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Thanks yes the Ci series would be great but I can't put them in ceiling! I thought DSU provided better surround than even ATMOS
wse,

DSU is Dolby Surround Up-mixer so it will take the standard 2.0 up to 7.1 soundtrack (stereo, Dolby TrueHD, DTS HD-MA) and up-mix it for some height effects. DSU will use the ceiling speakers more often because it's trying to re-create a sound field that's not really there in the first place.

It's not the same as object audio such as Atmos where the sound object(s) are moving around in 3D space with size and direction determined before hand at the mixing stage. The decoding of these objects are to be reproduced in real time by the available speakers on hand is job of the DSP built into the pre/pro/receivers. I.e. Atmos is the real 3D audio, while DSU is simply just up-mixing so its two separate technologies that complement each other.

The same thinking can be said for the difference between Dolby Digital (5.1) and Dolby Prologic (the up mixing to 5.1). Is 5.1 (Dolby Digital) more precise in the sound imaging rather than up mixing (Dolby Prologic) of stereo up to 5.1? I think it is.

As Tom Grooms says, there is another option of using the KEF E301 as your ceiling speakers. Believe Tom is an authorized KEF agent and can help you there as well as how best to mount them on the ceiling. Note that the E301 crossover (90Hz) is close enough to the LS50 (80Hz) that it wont matter much in the end. When I contacted KEF about the tonal differences between the E301 and LS50, I got a positive response saying they match well and don't worry about it. Give Tom a call if you're interested this solution.

Maranatz SR-7009, Oppo BPD-93, MTV 7000D, LG LW6500, aTV, WDTV Live, Harmony 650 remote, KEF E301+T101, MiniDSP(2x4), Emotiva 2xXPA-5 (Gen2), Rythmik 2xF12G+2xF8 (on order), HiMedia Q16 (on order).
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post #1367 of 1368 Old Yesterday, 08:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by steveting99 View Post
wse, DSU is Dolby Surround Up-mixer so it will take the standard 2.0 up to 7.1 soundtrack (stereo, Dolby TrueHD, DTS HD-MA) and up-mix it for some height effects. DSU will use the ceiling speakers more often because it's trying to re-create a sound field that's not really there in the first place.

It's not the same as object audio such as Atmos where the sound object(s) are moving around in 3D space with size and direction determined before hand at the mixing stage. The decoding of these objects are to be reproduced in real time by the available speakers on hand is job of the DSP built into the pre/pro/receivers. I.e. Atmos is the real 3D audio, while DSU is simply just up-mixing so its two separate technologies that complement each other.

The same thinking can be said for the difference between Dolby Digital (5.1) and Dolby Prologic (the up mixing to 5.1). Is 5.1 (Dolby Digital) more precise in the sound imaging rather than up mixing (Dolby Prologic) of stereo up to 5.1? I think it is.

As Tom Grooms says, there is another option of using the KEF E301 as your ceiling speakers. Believe Tom is an authorized KEF agent and can help you there as well as how best to mount them on the ceiling. Note that the E301 crossover (90Hz) is close enough to the LS50 (80Hz) that it wont matter much in the end. When I contacted KEF about the tonal differences between the E301 and LS50, I got a positive response saying they match well and don't worry about it. Give Tom a call if you're interested this solution.
Thanks I understand, I bought a pair of KEF E301 and gave them to my son for his ipad. I was not impressed by them for ATMOS

I wished KEF would update their outdoor speakers what kind of deal can Tome provide!
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post #1368 of 1368 Old Today, 07:55 AM
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Thanks I understand, I bought a pair of KEF E301 and gave them to my son for his ipad. I was not impressed by them for ATMOS
Thought you did a comparison between the E301 and LS50 in a basic stereo setup and decided the LS50 were better, thus passed them onto your son?

If you weren't happy with the E301 in a stereo setup, I have some doubt you'll be happy with them in any other setup. Maybe you should try out a pair of the Ci series and see if these are better in comparison to the LS50 on hand? The Ci series are designed for in-wall and in-ceiling so it would be suitable as Atmos height speakers.

Recall that with Audyssey REQ, all the speakers would be eqaulized to a target curve so they would all sound similar. It would be difficult to hear any audiable difference between them with Audyssey engaged. Also the height speakers are currently used for ambient sound in an Atmos sound track and silent most of the time. I honestly think it would be a waste of money making the Atmos ceiling speakers the same as the front sound stage speakers (i.e. front left, center and front right). Again, I'm not trying to discourage you on your Atmos setup, just something thoughts to consider.

PM Tom if you want to try out any of the KEF speakers.

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Last edited by steveting99; Today at 07:58 AM. Reason: typo
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