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post #2281 of 2300 Old 04-28-2017, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by dbphd View Post
Ken,

Do you unscrew the barrels that tighten on spades to access where you insert the knife? Bananas would facilitate switching between amps. I want to listen using an Ayre VX-5 Twenty alternating with a pair of Cary CAD 572 SE monoblocks. Speakers are KEF LS50s, subs Velodyne HGS-10s.

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Yes, remove entirely the cap nut/barrel that cover the thread of the binding post. At that point you may not even need a knife; those in all my R series speakers came out with nothing more than my fingernails.

I assumed you had already removed those and were still having trouble. Just make sure you put them back on afterwards.

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post #2282 of 2300 Old 04-28-2017, 11:45 AM
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I assumed you had already removed those and were still having trouble. Just make sure you put them back on afterwards.
Thanks for the advice, Ken. Have yet to change from spades to bananas, so I haven't removed anything. Just planning ahead.

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post #2283 of 2300 Old 04-29-2017, 06:48 PM
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For what its worth, i feel that Kef LS50s pair very nicely with the Anthem MRC 510. The neutral/warmth of the Anthem mixes well with the ALMOST fatiguing highs of the KEFs. #myTwoCents
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post #2284 of 2300 Old 05-20-2017, 08:50 AM
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I have a quick question about amplification, I've seen conflicting info online about people calling these speakers "demanding" but then also driving them with fairly modest equipment.

I was planning on getting a new receiver before speakers but I've got a line on a pair of used LS50s and might want to act quickly. I have a competent but not amazing Sony DA3400ES from 2009, it's not top end but it pushes a genuine 100WPC at 8 ohms and can handle 4 ohm speakers. Since I've already got a sub and I live in an apartment I'm not going to be as demanding on these like a traditional 2-channel setup so I guess my question is will this be enough for me to critically listen to them to decide if they're keepers for me? Buying used would allow me to budget for decent quality stands.

If I like them my plan is to get a third as a center channel.
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post #2285 of 2300 Old 05-20-2017, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qirex View Post
I have a quick question about amplification, I've seen conflicting info online about people calling these speakers "demanding" but then also driving them with fairly modest equipment.

I was planning on getting a new receiver before speakers but I've got a line on a pair of used LS50s and might want to act quickly. I have a competent but not amazing Sony DA3400ES from 2009, it's not top end but it pushes a genuine 100WPC at 8 ohms and can handle 4 ohm speakers. Since I've already got a sub and I live in an apartment I'm not going to be as demanding on these like a traditional 2-channel setup so I guess my question is will this be enough for me to critically listen to them to decide if they're keepers for me? Buying used would allow me to budget for decent quality stands.

If I like them my plan is to get a third as a center channel.
By far more than enough power, especially if you are crossing over into a sub. Most non-hearing damage listening is done within the first watt or two anyway.

This whole thing about "demanding" speakers needing expensive amps to respect their quality is just audiophile tomfoolery.

I've used my LS50 with peachtree nova125 (125wpc) and Marantz nr1606 (50wpc) and both sounded exactly the same, even at very loud listening levels.
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post #2286 of 2300 Old 05-20-2017, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by qirex View Post
I have a quick question about amplification, I've seen conflicting info online about people calling these speakers "demanding" but then also driving them with fairly modest equipment....
KEF says you need between 25-100 wpc. I have played them with 25 watts and 250 watts. The extra headroom was nice so you don't want the amp to be the weak link.

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post #2287 of 2300 Old 05-20-2017, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by 10k View Post
This whole thing about "demanding" speakers needing expensive amps to respect their quality is just audiophile tomfoolery.
Not sure I agree. I used Parasound A23 and A 21 amps to drive the LS50s; A21 sounds better. I used a Proceed Amp 2; sounds about as good as the A21. I'm using an Ayre VS-5 Twenty that sounds the best of all by a substantial margin. The LS50s seem revealing of the amplification that drives them. Not sure if that makes them demanding or disclosing.

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post #2288 of 2300 Old 05-20-2017, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by dbphd View Post
Not sure I agree. I used Parasound A23 and A 21 amps to drive the LS50s; A21 sounds better. I used a Proceed Amp 2; sounds about as good as the A21. I'm using an Ayre VS-5 Twenty that sounds the best of all by a substantial margin. The LS50s seem revealing of the amplification that drives them. Not sure if that makes them demanding or disclosing.

db
Well subjective experience is certainly valid, but unless you are listening at ear splitting volumes or those amps are badly designed and/or broken, the output will be objectively the same within the limits of human observation.

Look at the Ayre VX5 Twenty vs the Parasound A23

http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/ind...nts&Itemid=154

http://www.soundstage.com/index.php?...nts&Itemid=154

Up to 100w the oscilloscope says the Parasound is the better amp, with 1/10th the distortion of the Ayre.

Additionally output s/n ratio of the Parasound is better than the Ayre as well:

Parasound
Output noise (stereo mode), 8-ohm load, unbalanced inputs terminated with 1k ohms, Lch/Rch
  • Wideband: 0.220mV/0.197mV, -82.2dBW/-83.1dBW
  • A weighted: 0.069mV/0.060mV, -92.3dBW/-93.5dBW
Ayre
Output noise, 8-ohm load, unbalanced inputs, termination 1k ohm, Lch/Rch
  • Wideband: 0.58mV/0.58mV, -73.8 dBW/-73.8dBW
  • A weighted: 0.085mV/0.084mV, -90.4dBW/-90.5dBW


I'd bet if you level matched the two amps and did an ABX test at reasonable listening volumes you would not be able to tell the difference between them reliably, or even a used Sony AVR from 2009.

Regardless of the above, subjective enjoyment is most important since you as the owner are the one that has to live with your setup. So don't take the above the wrong way
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post #2289 of 2300 Old 05-20-2017, 02:50 PM
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...Look at the Ayre VX5 Twenty vs the Parasound A23...
He said the A21 (not A23) sounds better, that is my experience also. That was a long list of data to support the wrong amp.

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post #2290 of 2300 Old 05-20-2017, 02:51 PM
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He said the A21 (not A23) sounds better, that is my experience also. That was a long list of data to support the wrong amp.
i know that, but couldn't find measurements on the a21. Regardless, by almost all objective measures the a23 is better than the ayre, which he said sounds best.

There's a reason why there are zero documented instances of people being able to tell the difference between amps in a blind test.
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post #2291 of 2300 Old 05-20-2017, 03:21 PM
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In retrospect, my observations are confounded. I used a Cary Cinema 12 processor with the Parasound A 21 and A23, but I distinctly perceived more body with the A 21. I used an Ayre K-5xeMP preamp with the Proceed Amp 2 and continue to use it with the Ayre VX-5. For decades, I would have argued that only transducers, i.e., phono cartridges and speakers, make an important difference in sound quality, and that electronics are essentially equal. I have since been convinced that is not true,, beginning with replacing a Proceed HPA-3 (very obviously Levinsons in an industrial package) with Parasound JC 1 monoblocks. The difference was not subtle, especially LF extension of the KEF Reference 107/2s to a usable 20 Hz. And the transparency of the entire spectrum was increased. One might argue that the JC 1s have the advantage of being designed to enable separate biwiring, and that is so.

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post #2292 of 2300 Old 05-20-2017, 03:51 PM
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...There's a reason why there are zero documented instances of people being able to tell the difference between amps in a blind test.
Undiscriminating loudspeakers and unqualified listeners would be my guess.

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...but I distinctly perceived more body with the A 21....I have since been convinced that is not true,, beginning with replacing a Proceed HPA-3 (very obviously Levinsons in an industrial package) with Parasound JC 1 monoblocks. The difference was not subtle....
You and many others have exactly the same experience. Evidently our bias is so strong we all get the same results, lol. You have described these things exactly as I have heard them. I'm not sure if many HT guys have ever heard JC1s hooked up to a statement loudspeaker? My postings have led me to believe that bookshelfs and AVRs are the more common equipment here. Very few have loudspeakers beyond what we would call mid-fi. Not a dig, just my surmised results from my posts on these subjects.

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post #2293 of 2300 Old 05-21-2017, 06:28 AM
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The reason the LS50s got that class A rating from Stereophile, was the reviewers were driving it with class A or other high quaility equipment. Not that one can't totally enjoy the speakers with lesser stuff. I'm currently driving mine with a $500 Yamaha pro amp. Sounds wonderful, but I know the top end could be better.

There's an article in Tone magazine, comparing the Vandersteen VLR speakers against the KEF. On page 57, basically stating the same:

http://www.tonepublications.com/MAGPDF/TA_075.pdf

To qirex, grab the Kefs and see what they sound like with your Sony, in your room. Only way you will be able to tell. If they don't work out, just sell them to someone else. If they do sound good, buy that third speaker and know that if you want to upgrade your equipment later, the speakers will show that upgrade.

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post #2294 of 2300 Old 05-21-2017, 07:35 AM
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The reason the LS50s got that class A rating from Stereophile, was the reviewers were driving it with class A or other high quaility equipment. Not that one can't totally enjoy the speakers with lesser stuff...
I drove mine with a number of amps, some very modest. Although they sound best with high quality power I didn't feel that they changed all that much with lower grade gear.

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post #2295 of 2300 Old 05-22-2017, 01:54 AM
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Originally Posted by qirex View Post
I have a quick question about amplification, I've seen conflicting info online about people calling these speakers "demanding" but then also driving them with fairly modest equipment.

I was planning on getting a new receiver before speakers but I've got a line on a pair of used LS50s and might want to act quickly. I have a competent but not amazing Sony DA3400ES from 2009, it's not top end but it pushes a genuine 100WPC at 8 ohms and can handle 4 ohm speakers. Since I've already got a sub and I live in an apartment I'm not going to be as demanding on these like a traditional 2-channel setup so I guess my question is will this be enough for me to critically listen to them to decide if they're keepers for me? Buying used would allow me to budget for decent quality stands.

If I like them my plan is to get a third as a center channel.
Pounce on the LS50s and you'll enjoy the journey of finding the 'right' amp for 'em cos most likely you'll be keeping 'em far longer that any other equipment and you'll be amazed by its' capabilities...just my two cents

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post #2296 of 2300 Old 05-27-2017, 08:56 AM
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LS50 for 5.1

Hello,

I've read some posts where people were looking at using the LS50 in a home theater situation. Has anyone tried this? Do they handle movies well? I would pair them with an SVS SB-2000 or two and a Yamaha RX 3070 when released.

Any advice would be awesome!

Thank you!
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post #2297 of 2300 Old 05-27-2017, 09:04 AM
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Many people do use them for that, and that's probably why KEF offers a single one for a bit more than half the price of a pair.

I think they're so good it's a little overkill on sound quality for most movies, though there's BluRay disk like the Eric Clapton Crossroads events that help the LS50's really sing.

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post #2298 of 2300 Old 05-27-2017, 02:16 PM
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Many people do use them for that, and that's probably why KEF offers a single one for a bit more than half the price of a pair.

I think they're so good it's a little overkill on sound quality for most movies, though there's BluRay disk like the Eric Clapton Crossroads events that help the LS50's really sing.
I've read that the LS50's are hard to match up with a sub. I was thinking of pairing with an SVS SB-2000. Anyone have issues using a sub with these? I'd only use the sub when watching movies. I could go R300's but I liked the sound of the LS50's better.
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post #2299 of 2300 Old 05-27-2017, 02:43 PM
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I've read that the LS50's are hard to match up with a sub. I was thinking of pairing with an SVS SB-2000. Anyone have issues using a sub with these? I'd only use the sub when watching movies. I could go R300's but I liked the sound of the LS50's better.
In my living room setup, I'm using a pair of Velodyne HGS-10 subs to supplement the LS50s below 100 Hz with great success. A Beveridge RM-3 with a fixed 100 Hz card sends low-pass audio to the subs. The result is a setup that sounds complete without awareness of the subs.

In the media room setup, LS50s are used for side and rear surround, supplemented by a pair of HGS-15s with SMS-1 LF acoustic room correction. The front LR speakers are KEF Reference 107/2s; center speaker is a KEF Reference 204/2C. The subs are not used for stereo, because the 107/2s extend to 20 Hz, but they can make your chest feel the pressure with an HT explosion.

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I've read that the LS50's are hard to match up with a sub. I was thinking of pairing with an SVS SB-2000. Anyone have issues using a sub with these? I'd only use the sub when watching movies. I could go R300's but I liked the sound of the LS50's better.
First, let your ears answer the question. My HT (6.1.2) uses 5 LS50s up front, L/C/R & FLP/RLP. Two Kef 102 refs LR/RR, and an old Def Tech center for single Rear Ctr (Yamaha trick). My sub is an old Def Tech. I cross over the LS50s at 60Hz (which is low, recommended to cross over to the sub at 80Hz). This allows the LS50s to show what they can do, but does call for more work from the AVR. My rear speakers cross over at 90Hz, they need a bit more help. This works a treat for UHD movies. But the setup is optimized for 9 channel stereo (a Yamaha RX-V3060 trick), where the five fronts handle 90% of the music as a stereo front. This give me about a six foot tall virtual LS50 pair that sounds very very good. So, yes you can use them in surround setup. In my 9x12 room, sweet spot about 7' away, this really works. Go listen to them again with some great music you know and you'll figure it out quickly, then if your pockets are good, make the move.

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