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post #1 of 22 Old 10-07-2012, 10:49 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm looking for a new system for the living room, 14x25. I've got a $1,500-2,000 budget for the 5.1 speakers and receiver. I would also like the receiver capable of an additional zone, if possible, so I can play music on the back patio or perhaps throughout the house if I decide to mount speakers in other rooms.

I have attached a sketch of the room and furniture layout, which is not up for negotiation at this point. I have also drawn in the location of the proposed speakers. I will be using the TV to watch HD cable television, movies and play games on XBOX360.

Center channel:
Currently there is a large built in being constructed to house the 65" plasma television. Directly under the TV, and at ear level, is a space for the center channel speaker.

L&R Front:
I wanted to put bookshelf speakers on either end of the built in but have been advised that tower speakers about 17' apart would create a better front stage. I would like a slim style tower speaker.

L&R Surround:
For surround, left and right rear, I'm trying to stay away from mounting speakers in the corner of the wall and ceiling or in the wall for aesthetic purposes. I would like to mount in ceiling speakers placed outside of the couch that is against the wall.

Subwoofer:
I would like to place the subwoofer under the center channel speaker (on the floor) in an open faced cabinet.

Thanks in advance for the help!



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post #2 of 22 Old 10-07-2012, 12:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Thoughts on the Definitive Technology Mythos 5 towers? What is a good center channel and receiver to pair with these towers?
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post #3 of 22 Old 10-07-2012, 03:17 PM
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I think the Mythos 5 fit the bill and are a good choice.
Not sure if you are open to Ebay, but this is a legit seller who moves a lot of refurbished Deftech products at solid discounts. Here are the Mythos 4 towers for a good price:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Definitive-Technology-Mythos-Four-Loudspeaker-BVCPB-/190714977262?pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item2c677f9bee

This would be a good matching center:


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Definitive-Technology-Mythos-Three-Speaker-BVCMB-/180953087232?pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item2a21a4fd00

I would focus your budget on your main three speakers and sub. I would look at SVS, Hsu, and Ryhtmik for your sub.

For a receiver, this one would work:

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/DENAVR1712/DENON-AVR-1712-7.1-A/V-Surround-Receiver/1.html

It is 7.1 and supports two zones if you use the two remaining channels (you are only using 5).
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post #4 of 22 Old 10-07-2012, 03:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you for the help. Any reason to go Mythos 4 over th 5 in my 2,800 cubic foot living room? I think the Mythos 3 center is a good option.

I need to order the 2 in ceiling surrounds today since my electrician will be installing them along with excesses lights soon. What would be a good option for this purpose that would pair well with the Mythos 4 or 5 towers and Mythos 3 center channel?
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post #5 of 22 Old 10-07-2012, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccampb1346 View Post

Thank you for the help. Any reason to go Mythos 4 over th 5 in my 2,800 cubic foot living room? I think the Mythos 3 center is a good option.
I need to order the 2 in ceiling surrounds today since my electrician will be installing them along with excesses lights soon. What would be a good option for this purpose that would pair well with the Mythos 4 or 5 towers and Mythos 3 center channel?

The Mythos 4 speakers have larger drivers. For your size room, the larger size drivers might be preferred, but it all depends on what subwoofer you get and your crossover point.

For the in-ceiling speakers, is there a room above where these will be placed?
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post #6 of 22 Old 10-07-2012, 04:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes there is a room above, the living room is ground floor of a 2 story house. I'm probably have 8" depth above the ceiling for installation of the speakers.

I'm also wanting to buy a couple other in ceiling speakers for the dining room, kitchen and den for audio when we have people over. Would those speakers be different than the ones I use for surround?
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post #7 of 22 Old 10-07-2012, 04:06 PM - Thread Starter
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On the 4 vs 5, would the 4 allow me to set a lower crossover and go with a smaller bass? I'm not going for earth shattering base. Also this is a two story pier and beam house with living room on ground floor.
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post #8 of 22 Old 10-07-2012, 04:17 PM
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Is there a size limit on where the center channel will have to fit?

I noticed you said the main tower speakers 17 feet apart, but it looks like you will be sitting only 13 feet from the TV, since the room is 14 feet deep. Generally you want an equilateral triangle between you and the main speakers, so I would plan to move them a bit closer together. Also, by your drawing, the in ceiling surrounds are way out to the side. I would also move them closer.

Another piece of advice, avoid a center channel with rear ports, since it will be stuffed in a cabinet. I was going to recommend the Emptek speakers, but their center is rear ported.

You could look at the Aperion Intimus 5T towers and 5C center. They offer no risk in home trial with free shipping. I have not heard them personally, but the brand is well liked.

As far as in ceiling surrounds, there are so many to choose from. I put a link below to a Polk model from Crutchfield.com that allows you to aim the tweeter. Other might have better recommendations.

Finally, as far as 2 zone receivers go, keep this in mind. Some, like the Denon 1712 have two zones but no preouts for zone two. That means that you could hook up one extra set of speakers in another zone if you do only 5.1 in the main zone and the Denon would have to power those with its internal amps. You cannot expand anymore after that. If you look at the 2112 model(link below), it also has preouts for zone 2. That means you can add an external amp and power as many speakers as you need. Much more expandable, and still a good deal on the price. So, you could have two speakers in your living room, two in your dining room, and two outside and control it all from the Denon. All you would need is a multi channel amp.

Total price of the three Aperion speakers' the two Polks, and the 2112 AVR is $1700.

For a sub, you could do the energy s10.3, BIC PL-200, Lava LSP12, or Premier Acoustics PA 120, among others.

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/DENAVR2112CI/DENON-AVR-2112CI-7.1-Integrated-Network-A/V-Surround-Receiver/1.html

http://www.aperionaudio.com/speakers-by-type/center-channels/intimus-5c-center-channel-speaker

http://www.aperionaudio.com/speakers-by-type/towers/intimus-5t-tower-speaker

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_107MC80/Polk-Audio-MC80.html?tp=193

http://www.acousticsounddesign.com/core/view_BigProduct.cfm?PID=1555

Finally, I saw these posted on another thread. Great deal on the price.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882156011

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post #9 of 22 Old 10-07-2012, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccampb1346 View Post

On the 4 vs 5, would the 4 allow me to set a lower crossover and go with a smaller bass? I'm not going for earth shattering base. Also this is a two story pier and beam house with living room on ground floor.

Yes, the 4 would give you more midbass and a lower crossover point. The Mythos 1 would be even better but I only see be avaIlable:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Definitive-Technology-MYTHOS-ONE-BLACK-SINGLE-BVCIB-/180953074921?pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item2a21a4cce9

Just to confirm, do you have a bedroom above the living room?

If you have living space above the living room, I recommend an enclosed speaker so you don't end up with sound bleeding through to the upstairs room. Been there, done that.

An example of a good in-ceiling speaker would be this one:


http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0017LAFMO/ref=dp_olp_0?ie=UTF8&condition=all

Enclosed speakers typically cost more, but I recommend them unless you don't care about sound bleeding in from above.
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post #10 of 22 Old 10-07-2012, 04:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, the master bedroom is above the living room so I will definitely want an enclosed speaker. I really like the speakercraft speakers.
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post #11 of 22 Old 10-07-2012, 07:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Which Denon receiver will allow to have 2 zones that are multisource? I am planning to power the multi-room speakers with a second, basic 2-channel amp. Will I need the receiver that has a pre-out for the second zone?

I would like to be able to play the TV on the surround and background music through the multi-room setup OR play music through the surround AND the multi-channel setup. What's the best way to get that done?
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post #12 of 22 Old 10-08-2012, 08:48 AM
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For last year, the 2112 and up have zone 2 preouts. For this year the 2113 and up. Just to be clear, you can do zone 2 with different sources on the lesser models, but you have to power those speakers with the built in amps. So, it all depends on your setup. If you only have one set of speakers in zone 2 and you are not planning to expand, then you don't need the preouts. I power my dining room speakers with the built in amps on my Denon 2309 and I run the zone 2 pre outs to an old NAD stereo receiver to power my outdoor speakers.

Just to make it more confusing, there is a way to power more than two speakers with only one set of amps. You can use an impedance matching speaker selector that will allow you to hook up multiple sets of speakers. It keeps the impedance your amp sees high enough that you won't destroy the amp. But, it does limit the volume that the speakers can play.

As far as your second question, any receiver that does 2 zones should allow you to independently select the input for each zone. So, you can watch 5.1 in the main zone and listen to a CD in the other zone, or whatever. If you select the same input for both zones, they will play the same source. One limitation, on pretty much all these unless you get way up the food chain and get an expensive AVR, is that Zone 2 can only play analog sources, not digital. I think that is b/c the AVR won't down convert the 5.1 digial sound to a 2.0 analog for zone 2. So, if you hook up, say a Blu-Ray via HDMI to the AVR, you also need to run an analog RCA cable to another input to get sound to play out Zone 2, if, for example, you want to play an audio CD from the Blu-ray player. I had to run a separate cable from my HD DVR to my AVR so I could listen to all the Sirius stations that DirecTV has over zone 2.

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post #13 of 22 Old 10-08-2012, 09:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewHTbuyer View Post

For last year, the 2112 and up have zone 2 preouts. For this year the 2113 and up. Just to be clear, you can do zone 2 with different sources on the lesser models, but you have to power those speakers with the built in amps. So, it all depends on your setup. If you only have one set of speakers in zone 2 and you are not planning to expand, then you don't need the preouts. I power my dining room speakers with the built in amps on my Denon 2309 and I run the zone 2 pre outs to an old NAD stereo receiver to power my outdoor speakers.
Just to make it more confusing, there is a way to power more than two speakers with only one set of amps. You can use an impedance matching speaker selector that will allow you to hook up multiple sets of speakers. It keeps the impedance your amp sees high enough that you won't destroy the amp. But, it does limit the volume that the speakers can play.
As far as your second question, any receiver that does 2 zones should allow you to independently select the input for each zone. So, you can watch 5.1 in the main zone and listen to a CD in the other zone, or whatever. If you select the same input for both zones, they will play the same source. One limitation, on pretty much all these unless you get way up the food chain and get an expensive AVR, is that Zone 2 can only play analog sources, not digital. I think that is b/c the AVR won't down convert the 5.1 digial sound to a 2.0 analog for zone 2. So, if you hook up, say a Blu-Ray via HDMI to the AVR, you also need to run an analog RCA cable to another input to get sound to play out Zone 2, if, for example, you want to play an audio CD from the Blu-ray player. I had to run a separate cable from my HD DVR to my AVR so I could listen to all the Sirius stations that DirecTV has over zone 2.

I'm going to have 4 additional zones outside of the 5.1 setup (dining room, kitchen, den and outdoor patio). Based on your recommendations above do you think it would be best to select a receiver with zone 2 pre outs and then add on a second basic 2 channel receiver to power the 4 additional zones? I will probably go with impedence matching volume controls placed in each of the 4 zones, unless there is a better option.

Is this the best option? http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/DENAVR2112CI/DENON-AVR-2112CI-7.1-Integrated-Network-A/V-Surround-Receiver/1.html
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Check out this page:

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-Us7HnMm9jQY/learn/learningcenter/home/multiroom_diagrams.html

As you can see, using a speaker selector can accomplish the task but will limit the power to each speaker. Buying a multi channel amp so each speaker gets more power can overcome this but costs more. If you have one zone that you want to play loud, like maybe the outdoor speakers, you could hook those directly up to the Denon and then split the power from the extra stereo amp to the other three sets of speakers. It might be a good I idea to check the amp section and the Denon threads to see if the is more info on a setup like this.

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post #15 of 22 Old 10-08-2012, 12:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewHTbuyer View Post

Another piece of advice, avoid a center channel with rear ports, since it will be stuffed in a cabinet. I was going to recommend the Emptek speakers, but their center is rear ported.
You could look at the Aperion Intimus 5T towers and 5C center. They offer no risk in home trial with free shipping. I have not heard them personally, but the brand is well liked.

Are the Deftech Mythos 3 center speaker rear ported?
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post #16 of 22 Old 10-08-2012, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccampb1346 View Post

Are the Deftech Mythos 3 center speaker rear ported?

No. See pics of front, and rear here:
http://www.amazon.com/Definitive-Technology-Mythos-Center-Channel-Speaker/dp/B006UH8L8K

They should be okay in a cabinet. They are actually made to be mounted on the wall was well.
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post #17 of 22 Old 10-16-2012, 07:43 AM - Thread Starter
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I've decided against the floor standing slim tower speakers. My room is 14x25 and the couch opposes the 10' built in on the long wall, when you take 2' out of the width for the built in and 2' out of the width for the couch my vieweing/listening distance is only 10'.

For this reason among others I want to purchase bookshelf speakers to sit in the corners of the built in. After reading a lot on this website it sounds like I need front ported bookshelf speakers and a front ported center channel since both will be on or in the cabinet.

I like the KEF IQ series in either the IQ10 or IQ30 for my L & R fronts. I need a center channel to go with these speakers that will fit in my cabinet (sketch at top of thread). My dimensions are 6" high by 27" wide and there is over 2' of depth.

Questions:
Given my room size, 90% home theater use, and not needing an overkill system, is the IQ10 or IQ30 appropriate?
Given either option above, is there an appropriate center channel that will fit in this space? I could possibly squeeze 6.5" of height.
Given that I have this much depth is it best to have a front ported center or is rear ported ok?

If there isn't a good center match for my KEF, given my size constraints, I can fit a Deftech Mythos 3 in the space. What would be the appropriate bookshelf speaker for this setup? I've seen the Deftech StudioMonitor 350's on sale at NewEgg (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882325059) usually on sale at $199/pair. Would this be a good option for setting in a bookshelf?

For receiver I'm going with the Denon 2112CI. For rear surround I've already purchased a pair of Speakercraft Accutfit CRS7. I have not decided on the sub or sub placement.
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post #18 of 22 Old 10-16-2012, 07:51 AM
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I have a room of similar size to you, and have 3 x iQ3 for the fronts and 2 x iQ1 for the rears. I highly suggest this setup (in today's line 3 x iQ30 for fronts and 2 x iQ10 for rears).

In the spot where you were considering the sub (below where you are trying to put a "standard" centre speaker), use a third iQ30 for the centre; just put your sub elsewhere in the room (corner loaded somewhere probably).

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post #19 of 22 Old 10-16-2012, 07:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I have a room of similar size to you, and have 3 x iQ3 for the fronts and 2 x iQ1 for the rears. I highly suggest this setup (in today's line 3 x iQ30 for fronts and 2 x iQ10 for rears).
In the spot where you were considering the sub (below where you are trying to put a "standard" centre speaker), use a third iQ30 for the centre; just put your sub elsewhere in the room (corner loaded somewhere probably).

I like your idea but if I did that there would be two doors closing on the middle of the center speaker. I'm really hoping there is an appropriate L&R bookshelf & center channel that will work in this setup.
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post #20 of 22 Old 10-16-2012, 07:56 AM
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I am also looking for a similar set up. My space is 19 X 12.

Might be sitting 15 feet from TV.


I am looking at Mythos Two for front and a pair of Studio Montiors/ProMonitor 1000 for rear.

How do you guys rate Mythos two vs Mythos four.


XTR 50 is more expensive but is the thinnest around.

May be the OP should also look into it. Fully wall mountable.
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post #21 of 22 Old 10-16-2012, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccampb1346 View Post

I like your idea but if I did that there would be two doors closing on the middle of the center speaker. I'm really hoping there is an appropriate L&R bookshelf & center channel that will work in this setup.

Can't you remove the doors?

If you don't like the look just cover the whole opening with speaker cloth.

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post #22 of 22 Old 10-16-2012, 11:59 AM - Thread Starter
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No, I cannot remove the doors or cover the whole opening with speaker cloth but thanks for that idea.

Is there not A) a center channel that will compliment a pair of KEF IQ10's or IQ30's that will fit in a space 6.5" H x 27" W?

If there is not, is there B) a L &R bookshelf speaker that will compliment the Deftech Mythos 3 center?
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