Pioneer FS-51 speakers set to small or large in YPAO setup? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 12 Old 10-17-2012, 01:16 PM - Thread Starter
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I just setup my FS-51 along with the matching pioneer center, and an energy sub and energy satellites for the surrounds. I have a Yamaha 373 receiver.

The YPAO setup sets the FS-51's to small.
I tried this and it sounded OK, then I changed it to Large, and it turns off the sub.
It also sounded OK, but I'd like to use my sub without losing anything from my new speakers.

What settings are you guys using for these speakers? They seem to fall somewhere in between the small and large category.
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post #2 of 12 Old 10-17-2012, 02:11 PM
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As a rule of thumb if you have a subwoofer, set the main speakers to small.

You can always change the crossover for the towers if you wish. What did YPAO set them at?

Now that I think about it YPAO doesn't have seperate crossover settings for the front, center and surround speakers. I bet it set your crossover at 120hz or so because that Energy sats can't play that low.

One of the advantages of getting a receiver with Audyssey, you dont have this problem.

Does that Yamaha receiver have a Sub + Main option is the setup menu? I dont know YPAO very well.

Afro GT
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post #3 of 12 Old 10-17-2012, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glend123 View Post

I just setup my FS-51 along with the matching pioneer center, and an energy sub and energy satellites for the surrounds. I have a Yamaha 373 receiver.
The YPAO setup sets the FS-51's to small.
I tried this and it sounded OK, then I changed it to Large, and it turns off the sub.
It also sounded OK, but I'd like to use my sub without losing anything from my new speakers.
What settings are you guys using for these speakers? They seem to fall somewhere in between the small and large category.

Does the Yammy not allow separate settings of Large/Small for individual speakers or pairs?

I have no experience with Yammy, but it seems unusual that manually setting the Front L/R to large would disable the sub. It should stay active for your center and rear channels, assuming that are set to small.

Brian
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post #4 of 12 Old 10-17-2012, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BGLeduc View Post

Does the Yammy not allow separate settings of Large/Small for individual speakers or pairs?
I have no experience with Yammy, but it seems unusual that manually setting the Front L/R to large would disable the sub. It should stay active for your center and rear channels, assuming that are set to small.
Brian

It does have separate settings, but I'm wondering if it disables/changes something in the FS-51's when I set them to small, just like it wants to disable the sub when i set them to large.
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post #5 of 12 Old 10-17-2012, 02:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

As a rule of thumb if you have a subwoofer, set the main speakers to small.
You can always change the crossover for the towers if you wish. What did YPAO set them at?
Now that I think about it YPAO doesn't have seperate crossover settings for the front, center and surround speakers. I bet it set your crossover at 120hz or so because that Energy sats can't play that low.
One of the advantages of getting a receiver with Audyssey, you dont have this problem.
"Does that Yamaha receiver have a Sub + Main option is the setup menu? I dont know YPAO very well.
"

I'm not up on the crossover settings, just learning this stuff as I go along.

I think there are separate settings for all the speakers, if that is what you are asking in your last question. I'm not home right now, but I'm not sure if it allows me to set the mains to large and use the sub. i have to check tonight.
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post #6 of 12 Old 10-17-2012, 05:49 PM
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My question really is can you set the front 3 speakers to 80hz and the surrounds at 120hz? Some receivers will let you set up the front, center and surrounds with different crossover points. Not sure if your Yamaha is capable of this.

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post #7 of 12 Old 10-18-2012, 06:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

My question really is can you set the front 3 speakers to 80hz and the surrounds at 120hz? Some receivers will let you set up the front, center and surrounds with different crossover points. Not sure if your Yamaha is capable of this.

I will check this out, but I kind of doubt it since this is an entry level receiver.
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post #8 of 12 Old 10-19-2012, 01:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

My question really is can you set the front 3 speakers to 80hz and the surrounds at 120hz? Some receivers will let you set up the front, center and surrounds with different crossover points. Not sure if your Yamaha is capable of this.

I was able to set the front speakers to "large", the center channel to large, and the surrounds to small. The sub is now active. There is only 1 crossover setting it was at 100hz now I set it to 80 hz. There is also a setting for extra bass, and I turned that on. Sounds pretty good, I guess I'll leave it like this for now unless anyone else has any other suggestions.

What do I achieve by setting the crossover to 60hz?

The pioneer manual suggest setting the center channel to "small". I think that allows the fronts to handle more of the bass?
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post #9 of 12 Old 10-19-2012, 01:55 PM
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The Energy satellites shouldn't be crossed over at 80hz, but lets see what happens. If you say the whole setup sounds better then go with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt

My question really is can you set the front 3 speakers to 80hz and the surrounds at 120hz? Some receivers will let you set up the front, center and surrounds with different crossover points. Not sure if your Yamaha is capable of this.
I will check this out, but I kind of doubt it since this is an entry level receiver.ReplyQuote Multi 0

This is a limitation of YPAO not because you have a entry level reciever. The Denon 1612 is an entry level receiver and can have mutlple crossover points. Its an Audyssey vs YPAO thing.

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post #10 of 12 Old 10-19-2012, 02:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

The Energy satellites shouldn't be crossed over at 80hz, but lets see what happens. If you say the whole setup sounds better then go with it.
This is a limitation of YPAO not because you have a entry level reciever. The Denon 1612 is an entry level receiver and can have mutlple crossover points. Its an Audyssey vs YPAO thing.

What should the sattelites be set to?
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post #11 of 12 Old 05-08-2014, 07:49 AM
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Hi . . . this is an old thread, but did you figure out what to do . . . simply run YPAO, then afterwards manually set ALL your speakers to small, even if you are using large speakers. Remember to set your subwoofer to it's highest setting before running YPAO, if it's a yamaha sub that will be around 140 or 150.

I must say, however, I have found that sometimes, not all the time, YPAO does NOT set the AV bass crossover at the best point (and I am a die hard Yamaha AV receiver fan). Therefore, when the YPAO set up is complete, manually set your crossover in the Yamaha settings to slightly higher than the lowest frequency point of your satellite speakers (it might be that YPAO got it right, but if it didn't, change it). For example, If your speaker's low end is 100, then set your AV crossover to 110. If your speaker's low end is 60, then set your AV crossover to 70. Easy.

This will will send ALL the base and LFE sound that strains your speakers to the subs, and better harmonize your sound-stage. Will it be perfect? No, it won't. The only way to get it perfect is to do the speaker calibration with a hand held sound meter (you can purchase one at RadioShack). But it will be much better than running your Yamaha receiver with the large speaker settings . . . as a general rule, you hardly if ever, run your AV receiver with the speakers set to large . . . if you do, your sub does little to no work, and minimizes having a dedicated sub for lower end sound, and places the strain of the lower end sound on the other speakers.

Think of it like this . . . it's like owning a pick-up truck and a minivan, and you opt to haul 90% of a heavy haul in the minivan, and the remaining 10% in the truck, instead of just putting 100% of the heavy haul into the truck, which is designed to do the heavy lifting. Even though the minivan can do some of the work, it doesn't do it well or efficiently, it really isn't designed to haul heavy loads, but the truck is. So, while the minivan can strain to do the work, the truck can do all the work without the strain. And the minivan ends up lasting much longer, does not have wear and tear, damages, etc. As to the truck . . . it keeps on going, too, since it's doing exactly what it's designed to do. The truck is heavy duty, and it will take an enormous amount of stress, or overload, to damage it!

Like the minivan, all speakers can handle the stress of some bass sound, but they can't handle all of it (well), or at all. Therefore, send all the bass sound to the sub(s) (two subs are better than one), even if you have LARGE speakers . . . let the dedicated speaker (the sub) do what it is designed to do, the heavy (or low base) lifting! It's the pick-up truck in your speaker system . . . and rarely if ever can you send so much low end sound to it that it can be damaged (well, it can be damaged, but you'd need a tremendous low end thrust to do that, and in a common Yamaha AV unit, you need not worry about this).
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post #12 of 12 Old 05-08-2014, 08:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioAVfan View Post

Hi . . . this is an old thread, but did you figure out what to do . . . simply run YPAO, then afterwards manually set ALL your speakers to small, even if you are using large speakers. Remember to set your subwoofer to it's highest setting before running YPAO, if it's a yamaha sub that will be around 140 or 150.

I must say, however, I have found that sometimes, not all the time, YPAO does NOT set the AV bass crossover at the best point (and I am a die hard Yamaha AV receiver fan). Therefore, when the YPAO set up is complete, manually set your crossover in the Yamaha settings to slightly higher than the lowest frequency point of your satellite speakers (it might be that YPAO got it right, but if it didn't, change it). For example, If your speaker's low end is 100, then set your AV crossover to 110. If your speaker's low end is 60, then set your AV crossover to 70. Easy.

This will will send ALL the base and LFE sound that strains your speakers to the subs, and better harmonize your sound-stage. Will it be perfect? No, it won't. The only way to get it perfect is to do the speaker calibration with a hand held sound meter (you can purchase one at RadioShack). But it will be much better than running your Yamaha receiver with the large speaker settings . . . as a general rule, you hardly if ever, run your AV receiver with the speakers set to large . . . if you do, your sub does little to no work, and minimizes having a dedicated sub for lower end sound, and places the strain of the lower end sound on the other speakers.

Think of it like this . . . it's like owning a pick-up truck and a minivan, and you opt to haul 90% of a heavy haul in the minivan, and the remaining 10% in the truck, instead of just putting 100% of the heavy haul into the truck, which is designed to do the heavy lifting. Even though the minivan can do some of the work, it doesn't do it well or efficiently, it really isn't designed to haul heavy loads, but the truck is. So, while the minivan can strain to do the work, the truck can do all the work without the strain. And the minivan ends up lasting much longer, does not have wear and tear, damages, etc. As to the truck . . . it keeps on going, too, since it's doing exactly what it's designed to do. The truck is heavy duty, and it will take an enormous amount of stress, or overload, to damage it!

Like the minivan, all speakers can handle the stress of some bass sound, but they can't handle all of it (well), or at all. Therefore, send all the bass sound to the sub(s) (two subs are better than one), even if you have LARGE speakers . . . let the dedicated speaker (the sub) do what it is designed to do, the heavy (or low base) lifting! It's the pick-up truck in your speaker system . . . and rarely if ever can you send so much low end sound to it that it can be damaged (well, it can be damaged, but you'd need a tremendous low end thrust to do that, and in a common Yamaha AV unit, you need not worry about this).

Wow, It's been a long time and I forgot what all my settings are. I'll take your advice and try it out and post back.
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