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post #1 of 71 Old 10-24-2012, 05:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi all,

In light of a recent successful subwoofer GTG at my place, I'd like to see if there is any interest in the PA/NJ/DE/NY/MD/VA/DC area to audition some various loudspeaker setups. I have no idea on the timing just yet, but I'm thinking maybe sometime in the December/January timeframe would be cool. I'll have to work around our holiday schedule and coordinate my wife, but planning another event after how fun the last one is inevitable. biggrin.gif


Ideally for this to work well, my proposal for the details of the event would be as follows:

1) Standardize clip list and volume. Like we did with the subs, we could have a special section for "cutting them loose."
2) Identify MOSTLY ID setups as these would not be available for audition in stores
3) Limit setups to maybe 8 pairs?
4) Repeat beer and food selection from Sub GTG biggrin.gif

I think it would be cool to get a nice mix of "value oriented" setups as well some of the higher end gear like Seaton and JTR offerings. It would also be nice to see a good mix of various types of drivers - dome tweeters vs. compression drivers vs. planar/magnetics would be really sweet. The nice part about a loudspeaker comparison is we won't have to turn them to full tilt just to really hear the differences in each setup. Also, these will tend to be lighter overall than subwoofers. biggrin.gif

I have the following questions for you all -

1) Would we prefer a blind or sighted audition of each setup?
2) Just movies clips, just music clips, or both?
3) Include sub(s) with the audition?
4) Power with receiver or pro/external amps?
5) Employ EQ/Audyssey? Omnimic sweeps?
6) Suggested timeframe?

Speaker/attendee interest list:
1) CHT SHO-10, Gorilla83 - with subwoofer

Feel free to chime in with your thoughts.

Thanks guys.

Andrew


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post #2 of 71 Old 10-24-2012, 06:23 AM
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I would be in for that. I am still happy with my Focal speakers but I wouldn't mind listening to some other main speakers for an extended time.


1) Would we prefer a blind or sighted audition of each setup? I have never done a bind setup before but I thing either would be OK

2) Just movies clips, just music clips, or both? I have found that if a speaker is good with music it will be good with movies but that does not mean we can't do both

3) Include sub(s) with the audition? Personally, with my speakers, I listen to them without the sub. If you do it without the sub then you can really get a feel for the speaker. Even if it is designed to work with a sub. For instance. At one GTG we heard the Cat 12's without a sub for a little bit. It was a good test since you could hear the speaker on it's own.

4) Power with receiver or pro/external amps? Depending on the sensitivity of the speaker I vote for external amp

5) Employ EQ/Audyssey? Omnimic sweeps? Yes and Yes since most people will incorporate something like that in their systems. But even though no room is a like, I still think having a naked playback session is important as well. As always, this will be time dependent I am OK with what the group decides on.

6) Suggested time frame? As long as it's a Sat, I am in. Maybe give people some time to settle from this last sub test but maybe Jan(weather permitting)

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post #3 of 71 Old 10-24-2012, 06:36 AM
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1) Blind - as it removes preconceived ideas on how a speaker should sound
2) I would do more music over movies, if not all music, like a 70/30 split as speakers good for 1 are in general good for the other. A Smaller number of clips that are longer.
3) I would do it without the sub as it lets you get a true feel for the range of the speaker.
4) I’d go external; depending on the speakers some AVRs might have issues. (However your 4311 would prob be fine with anything)
5) Yes
6) Pretty much any Saturday that does not fall within 1 week of Xmass or New Year’s works for me. I can actually make any day work but Sats are prob the easiest for a large number of people.

I agree with your statement of hearing some lower priced speakers. I’d love there to be some Seatons or JTRs there again just because, but what else are you considering? I know you have the SHO10s and it would be great if a larger number of people could hear the ARX A5s. Personally I’d like to hear some JTR T8s simply because the 12s are too large for my house.


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post #4 of 71 Old 10-24-2012, 07:39 AM
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It would probably be more attractive to "higher end' offerings by ID companies if it were sighted. Trying to get the best out of each.
If it were blind it seems to be more appealing to the "lower offerings'" as a blind test to prove they can hang with the bigger and more
expensive ID offerings.
Both are very appealing to consumers especially the ones who are interested in a purchase and would like to use this as thier audition.
Completely depends on the goals you set forth.
If I was an ID speaker company and it was a blind event then what would be the gain to sending my best speaker if there is a chance someone
may think it sounds the same as a less expensive offering. If it sounds better than that would be expected out of higher priced speakers.
Blind test offers nothing to gain but alot to lose to the higher offerings. But a showcase to each ID company could bring company owners out with their speakers to
make sure they are played correct just as designed. Any great company would not want to miss this oppertunity.
You have proven you can pull this off so it is your decision to have.
Blind would/should bring lower priced offerings that can keep up with the big boys.
Either way every attendee would be the true winner.
Just my 2 cents topped off with a little BS
WVChris
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post #5 of 71 Old 10-24-2012, 07:51 AM
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Definitely interested here!

1) Would we prefer a blind or sighted audition of each setup?
I would prefer blind but I'm OK either way.
Sighted does have the advantage of a quicker setup which could be advantages depending on how many speakers we have for auditioning.

2) Just movies clips, just music clips, or both?
Both with a heavy bias towards music (80% / 20%)

3) Include sub(s) with the audition?
Without subs - let's see what these speakers can do on their own.

4) Power with receiver or pro/external amps?
Use your Denon receiver - it should be just fine.

5) Employ EQ/Audyssey? Omnimic sweeps?
Yes, yes, and yes.

6) Suggested timeframe?
I agree with Sibuna - Saturdays are probable the best for most and lets's avoid the weekends before and after Christmas.



Value oriented speakers should be auditioned (budgets, room size, second systems).

Can someone please link to where I can get those "specialized ear plugs" that many of you had at the last GTG. The foam plugs worked well for protection, but the ones that "filtered" the sound would be well worth getting, IMHO. Perfect when going to loud concerts. If I recall correctly Jim Wilson had a pair if that helps.
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post #6 of 71 Old 10-24-2012, 07:51 AM
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1) Blind.. the logistics of this can be a little daunting if it's a truely blind test, but I think it would be worth it.
2) I prefer both, with less clips that are a bit longer. More music than movies. Also, I think for more critical listening, it might be good to have a short delay between clips so folks can write down some quick notes. Along those lines, the overall audition time could get long and with that, people will have a harder time remembering specific clips and comparing them to the next speaker; thus I think it would be better to REALLY limit the number of clips.
3) No sub. As long as we have a good variety of clips that don't specifically concentrate on low-end bass, we should be fine
4) I defer to everyone's preferences on this. I personally use my receiver's (Denon 4311ci) amp and think it's just fine, but most others will likely prefer external.
5) I could go either way on this.. but more importantly whichever method used, should be standardized for each set of speakers so that people don't later complain that one set got an unfair advantage over another set in terms of setup/configuration.
6) Agreed with Saturday usually being the best day, and after the Holidays, sometime in Q1 of next year.

It would be great to hear a wide variety of speakers with different technology and varying costs. However, perhaps to level the playing field just a tad, we could do either two groupings of speakers, or two different audition events for say, speakers costing less than $2000 and speakers costing more than $2000. IMO, this would help alleviate concerns to a degree with CountryWV's point of "nothing to gain but a lot to lose to the higher offerings."

I'd be happy to bring my Arx A1bs and/or A5s, and would love to hear your SHO10s. I've always been interested in hearing Maggies too.. I think limiting to 8 pairs is a good idea; there will likely be a good deal of interest in more but perhaps we could vote on the primary 8, and then set up additional ones in a secondary set up with the caveat of it being informal listening.
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post #7 of 71 Old 10-24-2012, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Hi all,
In light of a recent successful subwoofer GTG at my place, I'd like to see if there is any interest in the PA/NJ/DE/NY/MD/VA/DC area to audition some various loudspeaker setups. I have no idea on the timing just yet, but I'm thinking maybe sometime in the December/January timeframe would be cool. I'll have to work around our holiday schedule and coordinate my wife, but planning another event after how fun the last one is inevitable. biggrin.gif

I have the following questions for you all -
1) Would we prefer a blind or sighted audition of each setup? Blind removes bias, it is the only way!
2) Just movies clips, just music clips, or both? Deoends on the speakers, if you are using just music it should be loud enough so you know it can handle movies because many speakers sound great at low volumes
3) Include sub(s) with the audition? Again, it depends on the speakers, SHO-10's won't sound good without them and either would JTR's.
4) Power with receiver or pro/external amps? Whatever is needed to make each speaker sound right
5) Employ EQ/Audyssey? Omnimic sweeps? Yes, of course!, you have to make sure every speaker is relatively flat or there are advantages and disadvantages with peaks and nulls
6) Suggested timeframe? Poll
Feel free to chime in with your thoughts.
Thanks guys.
Andrew

The best way I have compared speakers are blind behind my screen with both hooked up and ready to go with their EQ settings already dialed in. All that is needed is to flip a switch or switch binding posts or something from the amp. My rack is in another room so it is blind. Once you let people see what they are listening to it may already be better based on price, reputation, you name it. Don't you guys want to hear what you like rather than what everyone else tells you what to like because it should be better because it has more expensive whatever? The more speakers you have the harder it is to get fair tests because it takes time to do it right or make it fair as possible.

I want to know why you guys play things so loud when people will never listen that loud anyways. To me if a speaker is made for HT than it needs to sound great at reference. If a speaker is made for music it needs to play great at whatever level the listener wants but if that level rings or hurts the ears high fidelity will not be needed for long. Reference is loud but it never causes ringing or pain. When I test stuff everything is at reference or my max volume for my room and I keep whatever sounds best at that level, I don't care if a speaker can play 10 dBs louder because if it did not sound as good at reference there is no point.
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post #8 of 71 Old 10-24-2012, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by rx-8 View Post

Can someone please link to where I can get those "specialized ear plugs" that many of you had at the last GTG. The foam plugs worked well for protection, but the ones that "filtered" the sound would be well worth getting, IMHO. Perfect when going to loud concerts. If I recall correctly Jim Wilson had a pair if that helps.

I believe these were the recommended ones: http://www.amazon.com/Etymotic-Research-ETY-Plugs-Protection-Earplugs/dp/B0044DEESS/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
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post #9 of 71 Old 10-24-2012, 09:36 AM
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1) Would we prefer a blind or sighted audition of each setup?
I would say blind, but as high frequencies are highly affected by positioning and reflections it would have to be with blind folds (which would make it hard to take notes and would get uncomfortable after a time). Cone movement and sound directionality gives away what is playing.

Blind is really hard to do with main speakers, almost so much that I would say we can't do it..... not to mention the amount of pre-work it would take to EQ everything and have all the settings established, taking all the sweep data before hand......

2) Just movies clips, just music clips, or both?
I would vote for all music (including concert dvd/bluray).

3) Include sub(s) with the audition?
No subs

4) Power with receiver or pro/external amps?
External, but we should use the same amp for any/all speakers that need it. I want to hear the differences in speakers not amps.....

5) Employ EQ/Audyssey? Omnimic sweeps?
EQ is a big time waste and can hide a failing of a certain speaker when comparing. If we do use EQ then I would like to do an omnimic sweep and freq capture before and after EQ, so we can weigh that into consideration.

6) Suggested timeframe?
Saturday, whenever....
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post #10 of 71 Old 10-24-2012, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I want to know why you guys play things so loud when people will never listen that loud anyways. To me if a speaker is made for HT than it needs to sound great at reference. If a speaker is made for music it needs to play great at whatever level the listener wants but if that level rings or hurts the ears high fidelity will not be needed for long. Reference is loud but it never causes ringing or pain. When I test stuff everything is at reference or my max volume for my room and I keep whatever sounds best at that level, I don't care if a speaker can play 10 dBs louder because if it did not sound as good at reference there is no point.
I think it was a feeling of what happens when we do this biggrin.gif. As I posted above, that would be way louder then I would ever listen, but it was neat to try and push these subs to the max. Besides, the owners are the crazy ones tongue.gifeek.gif. They had the remote during the movie testing.

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post #11 of 71 Old 10-24-2012, 09:43 AM
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All you guys saying no subs and all music are turning this into a 2 channel full range speaker only experience. All the best HT setups have subs and if a speaker plays music well does not mean it will play movies well, at low volumes yes but the LFE still need subs.
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post #12 of 71 Old 10-24-2012, 09:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Interesting discussion guys, keep the thoughts coming.

A few suggestions / food for thought:

1) Maybe we could separate into 2 groups - speakers dedicated to full range, and those higher efficiency designs designed to operate >70-80hz. These are likely two different markets anyway.
2) I really do like the idea of doing blind testing, so we will do our best to accommodate that. To Ben's point maybe we could mark the locations of the loudspeakers so we can them as close to the same position as possible. Obviously this will be a bit more work to setup and would require that we dedicate 2-3 guys to help move and measure. This also means that same "helper group" could not comment on each setup.
3) Perhaps we can keep it simple and just run Audyssey - external EQ may be a bit time consuming, especially over the 100hz to 20kz spectrum.
4) I agree on biasing the listening session toward music - this is of course my personal preference and seems to jive with what I've heard so far.


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post #13 of 71 Old 10-24-2012, 12:01 PM
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I believe these were the recommended ones: http://www.amazon.com/Etymotic-Research-ETY-Plugs-Protection-Earplugs/dp/B0044DEESS/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

Yup, that's the pair I own.

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post #14 of 71 Old 10-24-2012, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I want to know why you guys play things so loud when people will never listen that loud anyways. To me if a speaker is made for HT than it needs to sound great at reference. If a speaker is made for music it needs to play great at whatever level the listener wants but if that level rings or hurts the ears high fidelity will not be needed for long. Reference is loud but it never causes ringing or pain. When I test stuff everything is at reference or my max volume for my room and I keep whatever sounds best at that level, I don't care if a speaker can play 10 dBs louder because if it did not sound as good at reference there is no point.

This was but a small portion of the day, and we did it just to have some fun.

popalok started it off, when he tried to twist his LMS drivers into a pretzel. tongue.gif Then came the Caps. With Gorilla83 and Jeff running them you had the perfect storm of bass heads trying to rip down the walls. eek.gif After that we hooked up three Seaton subs, so it was still 'go time' (although Mark was a bit more restrained). But all told, that constituted an hour to an hour and a half. I was there for 15 hours myself - others were even longer - so it really wasn't an all day SPL-fest. The vast majority of the time we were just listening to the subs.

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post #15 of 71 Old 10-24-2012, 01:00 PM
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I’m prob one of the few who does listen to music at/near ref often. I actually think i play music louder that I do Movies.

As per the sub discussion. I assume everyone will be running one and would rather hear what the speaker can do itself as adding a sub to pick up the low end is easily done


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post #16 of 71 Old 10-24-2012, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryansboston View Post

I believe these were the recommended ones: http://www.amazon.com/Etymotic-Research-ETY-Plugs-Protection-Earplugs/dp/B0044DEESS/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

Yup, that's the pair I own.

Thanks for the confirmation - definitely several pairs of these.
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post #17 of 71 Old 10-24-2012, 03:38 PM
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1) Would we prefer a blind or sighted audition of each setup?

For me, sighted is fine. I've evaluated so much equipment in the past year or so that it's easy for me not to formulate an opinion before my ears do. I realize that probably puts me in the minority though.


2) Just movies clips, just music clips, or both?

Both, but with the emphasis on music. Some of the others have suggest less clips, but longer duration. That would work for me.


3) Include sub(s) with the audition?

Depends upon what I'm listening to. I wouldn't want to hear a bookshelf speaker in a room that large without a sub. It would probably be too weak and shrill.


4) Power with receiver or pro/external amps?

I wonder if we should emulate what the attendees have. In other words if 10 people are coming, and 7 of them have AVR's, then perhaps that's what we should test with. Could end up being a more realistic representation of what most of us would encounter in their own environment.


5) Employ EQ/Audyssey? Omnimic sweeps?

I would say definitely Audyssey. EQ? Perhaps. Sweep? Not sure there will be sufficient time. Remember, we have to consume mass quantities of food and beer! That's no small undertaking. wink.gif


6) Suggested timeframe?

Perhaps Q1 of next year. Holidays are coming up, and that's going to wreak havoc on everyone's schedule. Because we're on the east coast, and the weather might s#ck, maybe March?


PA/NJ/DE/NY/MD/VA/DC

Might want to throw Canada into the mix. I think there were two guys who came down from the great white north.

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post #18 of 71 Old 10-24-2012, 05:59 PM
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I like the idea of splitting the speakers into two or more groups. Also worth considering is Harman's approach of using just one speaker. Their research indicates that just using one enhances discriminatory ability.

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post #19 of 71 Old 10-25-2012, 05:05 AM
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PA/NJ/DE/NY/MD/VA/DC/ON

Might want to throw Canada into the mix. I think there were two guys who came down from the great white north.

Fixed. wink.gif
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post #20 of 71 Old 10-25-2012, 05:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

1) Would we prefer a blind or sighted audition of each setup?
For me, sighted is fine. I've evaluated so much equipment in the past year or so that it's easy for me not to formulate an opinion before my ears do. I realize that probably puts me in the minority though.
2) Just movies clips, just music clips, or both?
Both, but with the emphasis on music. Some of the others have suggest less clips, but longer duration. That would work for me.
3) Include sub(s) with the audition?
Depends upon what I'm listening to. I wouldn't want to hear a bookshelf speaker in a room that large without a sub. It would probably be too weak and shrill.
4) Power with receiver or pro/external amps?
I wonder if we should emulate what the attendees have. In other words if 10 people are coming, and 7 of them have AVR's, then perhaps that's what we should test with. Could end up being a more realistic representation of what most of us would encounter in their own environment.
5) Employ EQ/Audyssey? Omnimic sweeps?
I would say definitely Audyssey. EQ? Perhaps. Sweep? Not sure there will be sufficient time. Remember, we have to consume mass quantities of food and beer! That's no small undertaking. wink.gif
6) Suggested timeframe?
Perhaps Q1 of next year. Holidays are coming up, and that's going to wreak havoc on everyone's schedule. Because we're on the east coast, and the weather might s#ck, maybe March?
PA/NJ/DE/NY/MD/VA/DC
Might want to throw Canada into the mix. I think there were two guys who came down from the great white north.

Haha, you're right we actually had guys from all over - from Kansas City, Wisconsin, Chicago, Ontario, New Jersey, New York, Virginia, Maryland, Delaware, and Pennsylavnia! I guess I will have to revise the title to just Speaker GTG. wink.gif

I think Q1 next year is the appropriate timeframe. Ideally January or February would be cool, but the weather could possibly impede.

Anyone have an AT fabric we could use for blind testing? I could easily whip up some frames. tongue.gif


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post #21 of 71 Old 10-25-2012, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

All you guys saying no subs and all music are turning this into a 2 channel full range speaker only experience. All the best HT setups have subs and if a speaker plays music well does not mean it will play movies well, at low volumes yes but the LFE still need subs.

I agree, minus subs it is simply a 2 channel (music only), full range speaker test and only speakers designed to run full range without subs should be used. IMHO smile.gif


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post #22 of 71 Old 10-25-2012, 09:21 AM
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Yes, you should define what you want to accomplish. Do you want to EQ every speaker with proper power so every speaker can play to it's full potential or do you want to just put speakers in the same spot and run Audyssey and see what sounds best. Either would work but you need to know what the goal is/are. Audyssey works well but only if the range of the speakers are not maxed out(see JTR thread for discussion). Subs are 100% needed for any speaker that does not dig deep enough because just from experience running speakers full range the lowest extended speakers will always sound more balanced. Even the Triple 12's will sound anemic without subs as it is designed that way. Think of these type of speakers as 3 ways with the bottoms separate(subs).
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post #23 of 71 Old 10-25-2012, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Yes, you should define what you want to accomplish. Do you want to EQ every speaker with proper power so every speaker can play to it's full potential or do you want to just put speakers in the same spot and run Audyssey and see what sounds best. Either would work but you need to know what the goal is/are. Audyssey works well but only if the range of the speakers are not maxed out(see JTR thread for discussion). Subs are 100% needed for any speaker that does not dig deep enough because just from experience running speakers full range the lowest extended speakers will always sound more balanced. Even the Triple 12's will sound anemic without subs as it is designed that way. Think of these type of speakers as 3 ways with the bottoms separate(subs).

This is very true. Even Jeff P. describes the 12" drivers in the T12' and Noesis as "midbass dirvers". People see a 12" driver and they automatically think full range capable. With an approx 70hz bottom, the T12's are not full range speakers. They are designed to be used with a subwoofer and any other use/thinking is outside of the designs capabilities.


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post #24 of 71 Old 10-25-2012, 09:56 AM
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Just use the same pair of subs crossed over at 60 to 80 on all the speakers and their low end should sound the same.
Those Caps Gorilla has already should be ideal.
That gives every speaker a fair starting point above the crossover and exact same low end.
Now for true fullrange just run as large on the speaker settings
Chris
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post #25 of 71 Old 10-25-2012, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Sibuna View Post

I’m prob one of the few who does listen to music at/near ref often. I actually think i play music louder that I do Movies.

As per the sub discussion. I assume everyone will be running one and would rather hear what the speaker can do itself as adding a sub to pick up the low end is easily done
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Just use the same pair of subs crossed over at 60 to 80 on all the speakers and their low end should sound the same.
Those Caps Gorilla has already should be ideal.
That gives every speaker a fair starting point above the crossover and exact same low end.
Now for true fullrange just run as large on the speaker settings
Chris

I would make the decision before the meet on if you want to compare full-range stereo speakers or speakers for more common use with subwoofers. Don't mix.

Chris has it right. Get a very capable subwoofer system and use EQ to get it as smooth and extended as practical. Use the same subwoofer with all the speakers. A speaker designed to have a subwoofer supporting the bottom end will sound lean or bright when run full range, and a tiny bookshelf voiced to sound fun on its own can suddenly sound a bit thick or muddy when you extend the bottom without making other adjustments. Cutting the lowest frequencies also allows you to consider what a speaker can do in the range you are actually using it for without wasting excursion or efficiency on lower frequencies better covered by subwoofers.

For combined music and home theater use, music evaluation tells a lot, but you do also want to listen to some clear and familiar movie dialog, ideally both quiet background and a very busy and complex scene with things going on behind the vocals.

My 2c

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I understand the want the to use a sub for testing. And I also understand what Mark said above. I am certanily going to be in the minority here. With My speakers I typically listen in bypass mode with no sub, I know I have the SubMersive and this is NOT a slight against it. I just prefer how the bypass mode sounds in My room. I just think that by using a sub, no matter how hard we try, people will perceive and score the speaker with the added bass from the sub higher then than they would if they just listened to the speaker by itself.

I don't think listening without a sub does not put speakers that are not full range at a disadvantage, People can just record their feelings based on what the speaker was able to do. I just think when you listen to a speaker system with a sub you are listening to how well the main speakers can blend with the sub. If that is what the meet is going to be then I have no problem with that. This is just an ex. At a previous event I heard Marks Cat 12's. We listened to music and movies. For part of the music listening we ran the Cats without a sub. It was very educational to me because they actually had much more bass impact and perceived extension then I would have guessed. We also listened to them with two SubMersive subs which really changed how they sounded (at least to me). But if all we did was listen to them with the subs, I would not have understood what the speakers really sounded like.

Again, I am probably in the minority here regarding this. I guess it has to do with history on how I became interested in audio. No need to get into that though. I know mostly every one uses a sub for HT and probably music so using a sub makes sense in that regards. But whenever I have auditioned speakers, it has never been with a sub. I guess I want to hear what the speakers can do on their own, regardless if they are full range or not. I don't think that puts speakers that are not full range at a disadvantage though because we will understand that they will not be full range anyway. What happens if we use a sub, but there is a "full range speaker" that maybe is not as full range as we think? How would know if we use a sub to augment the low end.

I don't know. Maybe this is all meaningless ramblings tongue.gif. There are people involved in this that know much more than me and I will of course defer to them. I hope I get invited to this one as well smile.gif.

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post #27 of 71 Old 10-25-2012, 11:33 AM
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Full range speakers are one group.
Speakers made to be crossed over to a sub ( JTR Triple 12's ) different group.
An individual needs to decide which group they are interested and go with what compliments that design.
That is how I made a mistake and bought full range speakers, when only the speakers made to be crossed to a sub
would satisfy my taste for Bass. But JTR T12's with no sub is misuse because it goes against the design of 60hz.
Speakers need to be run within their design limits or it starts going south quick.
chris
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post #28 of 71 Old 10-25-2012, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by countryWV View Post

Full range speakers are one group.
Speakers made to be crossed over to a sub ( JTR Triple 12's ) different group.
An individual needs to decide which group they are interested and go with what compliments that design.
That is how I made a mistake and bought full range speakers, when only the speakers made to be crossed to a sub
would satisfy my taste for Bass. But JTR T12's with no sub is misuse because it goes against the design.
Speakers need to be run within their design limits or it starts going south quick.
chris
That sounds like a good plan to me. I know it's way early, but do we have a list(wish or certain) of the speakers that may be in this GTG?

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post #29 of 71 Old 10-25-2012, 11:53 AM
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If one decides to run without subs then I say still run them small with a 80hz crossover(I would pick the lowest frequency of the least extending speaker) so there is not an advantage to a speaker that can extend nicely to 40hz because I know that speaker will win many categories and not just extension. To really compare fairly to a 30-40hz speaker and one that only goes to 80hz is to add a sub or remove the low end of the full range speaker. Removing the low end from all speakers(they will still have midbass) will take away the need for blending. I would also wait to see who is coming and what they use so you know whether subs are needed. I have not heard a speaker yet that can do extension any justice. Maybe Jeff or Mark can make a tower for the full range folk with basically a submersive or S2 built into the bottom firing sideways.
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post #30 of 71 Old 10-25-2012, 12:09 PM
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I have not heard a speaker yet that can do extension any justice. Maybe Jeff or Mark can make a tower for the full range folk with basically a submersive or S2 built into the bottom firing sideways.[/quote]

Me neither full range speakers seam like an optimistic dream.
But wait a T12 with an S2 bottom would be the dream, all 300lbs of it.
Chris
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