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post #91 of 132 Old 11-20-2012, 01:49 AM
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I think that either way whatever choice that you make any of those speakers should sound good.
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post #92 of 132 Old 11-20-2012, 07:54 AM - Thread Starter
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I think that either way whatever choice that you make any of those speakers should sound good.


Ok, so update, I went today to another store were I was able to find some speakers to try out, they had some ELACs, CANTONs, Magnats and HECOs, unfurtanely not all of the models that I wanted to try, so I tried the following models:

Magnat Vector 207 219€/each and Quantum 805 779€/each
CANTON GLE 470 169€/each, GLE 490 249€/each and Chrono 509 399€/each
Heco Victa 701 174€/each (they had the Metas last week, now they´re sold out frown.gif )

Lucky me, they had the Denon 2113 so I could actually try them with my receiver and have more precise idea of how they would sound like.

Here are the impressions:

Heco Victa 701:
First I listened to the Victa 701 since that was my curiosity, all of the speakers are not burned out, as a matter of fact the guy told me I´m one of the least customers that takes those kinds of speaker trials, so he may say they all have aruond 8-9h playing time, when too much.

Tried with different genres, some pop, techno, upbeat stuff, I must say that the stae image is very wide, the details are very good, the music has a lot of body, deep bass and wide mids, for my test it lacked a bit of high freqs, but great response, as I´m saying a little bit layed back.
With some alternative like Young the Giant´s "Cough Syrup" the sound is even clearer, and you´d have a little bit more of high frequency, still the sound is very robust and wide.
Couldn´t try rock, though with ballads like Whitney Houston´s "I will always love you" the sound is just amaying.

Overall, I felt like they weren´t bright enough, so, next speakers:

Canton 470/490:

Same music, Canton 470s lacks of detail, they can be very loud but its just like a begginer level, sound stage not so wide, not bad but also not the level I´m looking for, the 490 had the detail that the 470s were lacking of, though the sound stage image was not much bigger, I think it has to do with the size of the boxes, and they were a little too bright for me.

Canton Chrono 509:

Here we´re stepping up to the next level, wider stage image, great detail, much more balanced than the other ones, still too bright, in most of the HipHop like Mariah Carey´s "My Love", you could actually here the highs imposing themselves over the voice sometimes, though its maybe an issue that can be corrected running the Audyssey, don´t know, still I like a wider sound stage image.

Magnat 207:

Didn´t like them at all, to be honest, in all of the sound it sounded like if the band was playing in a little room, too compressed, and almost no detail (for my ears) have to say that this was the smaller box from all of them, the bigger one is the one from the Victas...

Magnat Quantum:

Seems like with Magnat, in order to achieve a decent sound you have to step up to the mid-high range of speakers, I could try a couple of more speakers from Magnat but I´m not mentioning it because they all had the same issue from the 207s, so I got curious and tried the Quantums...My God! this box is bigger than the one from the Victas, so the stage image was even bigger, more space between instruments, very balanced sound, simply great, but way out of my reach right now, so I just tried them so that I can give you guys some tips about it in case its helpful.

So after listening to all of them, at last I stayed with a bit of a taste from the Victas, and managed to convince the guy to run the Audyssey correction system with this babies to see if I was right and the balancing problem would be solved...and WOILA! sound balanced, great detail, much better highs still warm sound, a bit layed back at low volumes, very impressive at high ones!

WINNER BETWEEN THESE ONES: Heco Victas 701

Afterwards I was speaking with the guy and he told me that if I was impressed with the sound of the Victas, then I should get the Metas 501, that would be closer to this ones but still better, or even the Metas 701, they´re a bit more expensive but it is a great step up in sound quality, on his own words "its just as you heard the Victas with the Audyssey correction, but even better without it!!" so I don´t know...I couldn´t hear them.


I was clever enough to go to a different store to avoid hungry salesmans, and they actually have the KEFs though one cannot try them out, he says that the problem is that KEF wont give the stores a "Tryout Pair" so afterwards if they take the risk of plugging them in and they get burned or something, the store will loose the money, that´s why most of the stores won´t let you try them, still he told me in his personal opinion that even though the engineering behind the KEFs is amazing, to get that wide stage image I should get a standspeaker, not the small ones, and that he prefers Heco since its an older and more experienced company than KEF, though its just his personal opinion.

I also spoke with my friend and he told me he used to have Cantons as his first speakers, after he heard Heco and found a much detailed sound on them and better quality materials, so he jumped up to the Victas ´cause he had the same problem I had when I tried them out, he found that the 169€ Victa 501 would sound better than a 400€ Canton speaker, now he bought the last pair of Metas 701 in the store so that´s why they don´t have more!, and I can´t listen to them on his house either since he´s getting them in 2 weeks.

Anyways, hope this information will help other people, and still await for any advices you could give me guys, thanks for reading!! you´re awesome smile.gif
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post #93 of 132 Old 11-20-2012, 08:33 AM
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I was clever enough to go to a different store to avoid hungry salesmans, and they actually have the KEFs though one cannot try them out, he says that the problem is that KEF wont give the stores a "Tryout Pair" so afterwards if they take the risk of plugging them in and they get burned or something, the store will loose the money, that´s why most of the stores won´t let you try them, still he told me in his personal opinion that even though the engineering behind the KEFs is amazing, to get that wide stage image I should get a standspeaker, not the small ones, and that he prefers Heco since its an older and more experienced company than KEF, though its just his personal opinion.

See what their return policy is. If you can take them home and try them for a full refund if you don't like them, that could be the thing to do.

Also, the comment the salesman made about Heco being as older and more experienced is crap. KEF is around 50 years old. Heco may be a little older, but 50 years in the audio industry is plenty of experience in terms of age.

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post #94 of 132 Old 11-20-2012, 08:48 AM - Thread Starter
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See what their return policy is. If you can take them home and try them for a full refund if you don't like them, that could be the thing to do.
Also, the comment the salesman made about Heco being as older and more experienced is crap. KEF is around 50 years old. Heco may be a little older, but 50 years in the audio industry is plenty of experience in terms of age.

Jeje you know how this guys are, still this was a complete different store and the guy had no idea on what I was jejeje, I think normally I got 14 days return policy, though I have to pay for the shipping costs if I don´t like them, they pay for them if there´s something wrong with them, but then they´ll send me another pair of the same speakers, what do you think about his overall opinion on getting standspeakers instead of the other ones? I´m seeing that the Metas XT 501 costs double of what the Victas 701 costs, still I dont know if I should jump in into the offer I´m getting or stay with the KEFs...
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post #95 of 132 Old 11-20-2012, 08:58 AM
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It is worth driving the extra distance to hear stuff. I had to go 3 and a half hours to new york city to hear kef, psb, magnepan, martin logan, golden ear technology or something like that, paradigm and other brands. I did all this in two trips to the city. I did most of it the first day and then went to the beach in coney islamd to hang out. NYC was more convenient because I could get off the subway and go to the next store. If I didn't do this I would have had to go to philadelphia and maryland to hear most of this stuff. I couldn't find a dealer nearbye who had kef to listen to either. The only kef pair that the new york guy had was about 3 or 4 thousand dollars. They sounded good, but I don't want to spend that much on speakers. you saved yourself a lot of time and avoided buying the wrong speaker brand.
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post #96 of 132 Old 11-20-2012, 09:02 AM
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do you think that the more expensive speaker is worth the extra cost. if it isn't then go with the other one that sounds just as good to you. for example, I like the sound of the 10,000 dollar dali speakers, but I know cheaper brands sound good to. I know that I can't afford those dalis so for me the cost isn';t worth it. if money is tight don't go broke buying the more expensive speakers. denon is a good amp to push any of these speakers I think.
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post #97 of 132 Old 11-20-2012, 09:04 AM - Thread Starter
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It is worth driving the extra distance to hear stuff. I had to go 3 and a half hours to new york city to hear kef, psb, magnepan, martin logan, golden ear technology or something like that, paradig and other brands. I did all this in two trips to the city. I did most of it the first day and then went to the beach in coney islamd to hang out. NYC was more convenient because I could get off the subway and go to the next store. If I didn't do this I would have had to go to philadelphia and maryland to hear most of this stuff. I couldn't find a dealer nearbye who had kef to listen to either. The only kef pair that the new york guy had was about 3 or 4 thousand dollars. They sounded good, but I don't want to spend that much on speakers. you saved yourself a lot of time and avoided buying the wrong speaker brand.


I really don´t think that KEF would be the wrong brand, but sadly I´m not able to hear them, and today I understood the importance of hearing the speakers before buying them, don´t know why there´s not much reference on Hecos at that side of the wold, though they´re pretty good, last night I spent at least 4 hours looking in the internet for stores that could have the KEFs, there´s maybe 10 dealers total that have them, none of them has them in the "hearing room", so I decided to go to where I would find at least 2 or 3 from all of the brands, I just don´t know if go the extra mile and pay double the price of the Victas for a couple of Metas that everyone says are better sounding, or just take the offer for the Victas delivered and installed for now, and just change them next year for better ones one I have more money (then I may be able to get the KEFs..?)

Oh, and the return policy won´t apply to KEFs, Klipsch and 3 other more brands, it´ll only apply if there´s a defect on them, if not you have to keep them xD seems that KEF people are very strict with they´re equipment.
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post #98 of 132 Old 11-20-2012, 09:06 AM
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Jeje you know how this guys are, still this was a complete different store and the guy had no idea on what I was jejeje, I think normally I got 14 days return policy, though I have to pay for the shipping costs if I don´t like them, they pay for them if there´s something wrong with them, but then they´ll send me another pair of the same speakers, what do you think about his overall opinion on getting standspeakers instead of the other ones? I´m seeing that the Metas XT 501 costs double of what the Victas 701 costs, still I dont know if I should jump in into the offer I´m getting or stay with the KEFs...

That's too bad that they make it so difficult to try them at home.

It's easy to let your budget creep up on you. Tower speakers can certainly be nice for filling very large rooms, but bookshelves like the ones you are considering coupled with a good sub will be a significant improvement over your Bose AM set.

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post #99 of 132 Old 11-20-2012, 09:07 AM
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I feel weird buying speakers that I can't hear. I have read good reviews about speakers that people said that I might like and hated them. we all like different speaker brands. it is important to be able to hear it first before spending big bucks and hating it. some stores will even charge you a 15 percent restocking fee if you don't like the speaker to return it.
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post #100 of 132 Old 11-20-2012, 09:09 AM
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cel I heard from someone that kef if you buy from directly from the kef website lets you do a home trial do you know if that's true? I hear that the sites called kef direct or something like that. a long time ago I read that studios used kef speakers. I heard radio stations or tv stations used to use them.
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post #101 of 132 Old 11-20-2012, 09:10 AM - Thread Starter
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do you think that the more expensive speaker is worth the extra cost. if it isn't then go with the other one that sounds just as good to you. for example, I like the sound of the 10,000 dollar dali speakers, but I know cheaper brands sound good to. I know that I can't afford those dalis so for me the cost isn';t worth it. if money is tight don't go broke buying the more expensive speakers. denon is a good amp to push any of these speakers I think.

That was about the answer I was looking, if you read at my last post you´ll see my question wink.gif ok, so last try, I´m gonna call to the store of my friend´s people to see if I get ANY deals on KEFs or an even better deal on the Hecos, let you know in a sec wink.gif
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post #102 of 132 Old 11-20-2012, 09:14 AM - Thread Starter
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That's too bad that they make it so difficult to try them at home.
It's easy to let your budget creep up on you. Tower speakers can certainly be nice for filling very large rooms, but bookshelves like the ones you are considering coupled with a good sub will be a significant improvement over your Bose AM set.


At this point, after hearing some other speakers, I would say ANYTHING is an improvement over the Bose´s xD
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I feel weird buying speakers that I can't hear. I have read good reviews about speakers that people said that I might like and hated them. we all like different speaker brands. it is important to be able to hear it first before spending big bucks and hating it. some stores will even charge you a 15 percent restocking fee if you don't like the speaker to return it.

Here in Germany its a bit more complicated, they have rules for everything, even if you want to go to the toilet, just for says xD
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post #103 of 132 Old 11-20-2012, 09:16 AM - Thread Starter
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cel I heard from someone that kef if you buy from directly from the kef website lets you do a home trial do you know if that's true? I hear that the sites called kef direct or something like that. a long time ago I read that studios used kef speakers. I heard radio stations or tv stations used to use them.


It is true, here in Germany they use both KEF on "Hi-Fi Rooms" and Magnat and Hecos on big buck studios, here´s the curious thing, I´m a musician and I´ve been in different studios recording, I´ve seen the KEF logo and never knew what it was xD, even saw the "Magnat" and "Heco" name on some reference monitors and was always thinking "this guys are buying cheap crap" since the Germans are very greedy with the money xD all of it just because I didn´t know the brands jajaja
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post #104 of 132 Old 11-20-2012, 09:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, called to the store and spoke with the guy, no chance on the KEFs, as a matter of fact he told me that if you look for them all over the retailers, they all have the same price "it is actually true, I´ve checked it before" BUT, guess what! after pushing and pushing got an even better deal on the Heco Victas 701:

- 399€ delivered and installed! cables included! (don´t know which cables though) the only bad think is that this only applies to the Black model since its the only color they have frown.gif and my TV furniture is like walnut colored.


Called my friend and he told me he thinks its a great deal to start with being my first standspeakers, also told me that they are a bit below the KEF Q500 on sound quality in his opinion, the KEFs are a bit more detailed in the highs, though he said the same you guys just said, having a good Receiver that wouldn´t be a problem, so what do you think guys? Final bet?
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post #105 of 132 Old 11-20-2012, 10:39 AM
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that is to bad that they don't have the color that you want. could he get you that color or it would cost a lot more to get the color that you want? I don't worry about speakers matching my room. as long as it sounds good is all that matters. if it were me I wouldn't spend the extra on the kef speakers unless I thought that the price was really worth it. you can't even hear them. what if you don't like them. it's up to you. get whatever brand that you feel is best for you. do you have other hi fi friends that can give opinions on it or just him right now? I always wanted a big pair of cerwin vega speakers, but I always felt like they cost to much. They have more bass then other speakers that I heard, but the tweeters don't sound as good to me as other brands. I know that it isn't worth the 6 to 800 bucks to buy them. The used sellers all want me to pay up to 300 bucks for 20 year old cerwin vegas. I am not doing that either. I try to negotiate up to a 100 bucks and they don't want to hear it lol.
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post #106 of 132 Old 11-20-2012, 10:45 AM - Thread Starter
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that is to bad that they don't have the color that you want. could he get you that color or it would cost a lot more to get the color that you want? I don't worry about speakers matching my room. as long as it sounds good is all that matters. if it were me I wouldn't spend the extra on the kef speakers unless I thought that the price was really worth it. you can't even hear them. what if you don't like them. it's up to you. get whatever brand that you feel is best for you. do you have other hi fi friends that can give opinions on it or just him right now? I always wanted a big pair of cerwin vega speakers, but I always felt like they cost to much. They have more bass then other speakers that I heard, but the tweeters don't sound as good to me as other brands. I know that it isn't worth the 6 to 800 bucks to buy them. The used sellers all want me to pay up to 300 bucks for 20 year old cerwin vegas. I am not doing that either. I try to negotiate up to a 100 bucks and they don't want to hear it lol.

LOL surely won´t buy 20yr old speakers, I´ve asked some studio owners and they tell me to go either with Magnat Quantums (Expensive) or with any Hecos from the Victas 701 up, as for the KEFs, they say nothing less than the Q700 stands, which I also can´t afford and haven´t been able to hear, so, those are the opinions so far.


Another friend who owns a studio also told me that I could buy the Victas now, and next year jump to the KEFs or even to a higher Heco model if I like the brand, he loves the engineering behind the KEFs, but have had also bad experiences on buying speakers without hearing them, told me about a couple of "trial lounges" where you can go try them out with an appointment (KEFs, Klipsch and High end Polk Audios and Dalis) but you have to pay in order to get one hour testing time, so he told me that if I´m not buying a high-end speaker then it makes no sense to spend money just to hear them out.
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post #107 of 132 Old 11-20-2012, 10:47 AM - Thread Starter
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LOL surely won´t buy 20yr old speakers, I´ve asked some studio owners and they tell me to go either with Magnat Quantums (Expensive) or with any Hecos from the Victas 701 up, as for the KEFs, they say nothing less than the Q700 stands, which I also can´t afford and haven´t been able to hear, so, those are the opinions so far.
Another friend who owns a studio also told me that I could buy the Victas now, and next year jump to the KEFs or even to a higher Heco model if I like the brand, he loves the engineering behind the KEFs, but have had also bad experiences on buying speakers without hearing them, told me about a couple of "trial lounges" where you can go try them out with an appointment (KEFs, Klipsch and High end Polk Audios and Dalis) but you have to pay in order to get one hour testing time, so he told me that if I´m not buying a high-end speaker then it makes no sense to spend money just to hear them out.


Oh, and I don´t really mind the color, as a matter of fact I like black, I´m just worried about my wife complaining for the colors not matching lol, but its no biggie actually, they told me if I want the walnut ones I´d have to wait ´til January and thez can´t promise the same price since its the end of the trimester and the prices may vary, so there´s what I have.
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post #108 of 132 Old 11-20-2012, 10:51 AM
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in that case the wife will have to understand about the color. I guess get the black and forget the kef speakers. did she get to hear the speakers that you are going to buy also?
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post #109 of 132 Old 11-20-2012, 11:03 AM - Thread Starter
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in that case the wife will have to understand about the color. I guess get the black and forget the kef speakers. did she get to hear the speakers that you are going to buy also?

Yes, I took her with me, but for her they all sound the same :S the only ones she didn´t like at all were the low-end Magnats, the rest of them, for her are all the same, she fell in love with the Magnat Quantums though "because of the brilliant finish of the boxes" lol, she´s more of a plastic artist so, I won´t have much help there.
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post #110 of 132 Old 11-20-2012, 01:04 PM
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lol that makes it much easier if she liked them all except the one model. ask her which one does she want you to get
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post #111 of 132 Old 11-20-2012, 01:16 PM - Thread Starter
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lol that makes it much easier if she liked them all except the one model. ask her which one does she want you to get

She said she would loove the Quantums cause they´re beautiful xD, so its my choice since its not realistic for me right now, my budget is not so big xD
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post #112 of 132 Old 11-20-2012, 03:06 PM
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Ok, called to the store and spoke with the guy, no chance on the KEFs, as a matter of fact he told me that if you look for them all over the retailers, they all have the same price "it is actually true, I´ve checked it before" BUT, guess what! after pushing and pushing got an even better deal on the Heco Victas 701:
- 399€ delivered and installed! cables included! (don´t know which cables though) the only bad think is that this only applies to the Black model since its the only color they have frown.gif and my TV furniture is like walnut colored.
Called my friend and he told me he thinks its a great deal to start with being my first standspeakers, also told me that they are a bit below the KEF Q500 on sound quality in his opinion, the KEFs are a bit more detailed in the highs, though he said the same you guys just said, having a good Receiver that wouldn´t be a problem, so what do you think guys? Final bet?

We kind of psychologically adjust to speakers. That's part of the "break in" phenomena (if not almost all of it). If you liked them OK in the store, I would think you'll enjoy them once you get them setup and run Audyssey.

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post #113 of 132 Old 11-20-2012, 03:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

We kind of psychologically adjust to speakers. That's part of the "break in" phenomena (if not almost all of it). If you liked them OK in the store, I would think you'll enjoy them once you get them setup and run Audyssey.

I´ve actually been opened to each and every suggestions ´til now, actually you can see that this is a Brand I wasn´t even considering, but don´t know why everything´s been positioning itself like this, so don´t know! just want to take the best desicion, even though these are not my lifetime speakers, I want them to be good enough know what I mean?
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post #114 of 132 Old 11-20-2012, 03:52 PM
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Well, if you want to be talked into the Kefs, go to the Owners Thread on AVS. I'm sure they can convince you biggrin.gif

Your questions are answered: Speaker FAQ
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post #115 of 132 Old 12-17-2012, 04:49 AM
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How about pioneer F52 and Bs22. Are these other speakers that much better?
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post #116 of 132 Old 01-11-2013, 11:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi everone!! first of all Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!!


Sorry for the delays on updating, been out of town and came back a couple of weeks ago, though I had everything disconnected and yesterday I finally had time to put everything straight and in order, so as promised, here´s a pic of the final result:



Haven´t gotten the center or the sub yet, on my back I have the BOSE Cubes with its subwoofer (they have to go together since the crossover its inside the sub, otherwise the speakers would get burned if connected straight up to the amp, or something like that explained the BOSE guy to me on the phone), its bi-wired and bi-amped by the Denon, and I used the Audyssey, I just wanted to ask you guys one thing, I´ve tried the system with different kinds of Music (Queen, Michaerl Jackson, some R&B, and Jazz) and though it sounds amazing, I can´t avoid to here a bit of distortion on the highs from one of the speakers, sometimes in both, its not easy to notice but if you listen carefully and have kind of "trained" ears you´d find out, now, I´ve read somewhere around here that a bad Audyssey set-up would cause this, what do you think?


Another odd thing happened to me, I connected everything to the back of the amp, when running the Audyssey set-up it gave me a Phase Error with the surrounds, I double-checked the connections several times, they were all in order, but the error kept showing up, so I inverted the cables that comes from the amp to the BOSE subwoofer on it, and voila! Error solved, isn´t that odd?

Well guys, thanks again for your help!
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post #117 of 132 Old 01-11-2013, 11:45 AM
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That's a nice looking setup. Although it looks like your left speaker might be toed in a little too much (hard to tell with the wide angle).

As far as your distortion with the highs, could be that you are getting some room reflections out of one side. You right speaker is near the wall, and your left is in more open space, so they could easily be interacting with the room separately.

But to test, I would

1) Listen to the front speakers in stereo (no rears or center) using a direct or pure mode that has Audyssey disabled (check your manual). That should tell you if Audyssey is affecting that.
2) If you still hear it more out of one side, swap the speakers. Still out of the same side, you know it's not one of the speakers.

Your questions are answered: Speaker FAQ
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post #118 of 132 Old 01-12-2013, 12:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

That's a nice looking setup. Although it looks like your left speaker might be toed in a little too much (hard to tell with the wide angle).

As far as your distortion with the highs, could be that you are getting some room reflections out of one side. You right speaker is near the wall, and your left is in more open space, so they could easily be interacting with the room separately.

But to test, I would

1) Listen to the front speakers in stereo (no rears or center) using a direct or pure mode that has Audyssey disabled (check your manual). That should tell you if Audyssey is affecting that.
2) If you still hear it more out of one side, swap the speakers. Still out of the same side, you know it's not one of the speakers.

Thanks for the reply! haven´t had time to test it (just came from work) but will do on Monday, another thing I´ve noticed is that music from the internet Radio sounds actually better than the music coming from an original CD played on my dvd player, since its a 20€ DVD player I thought this might be affecting it, I can´t believe that the music streamed on an Internet Radio would actually have better quality than the one recorded on a CD! what do you think?would that be a valid reason? most of the distortion I´ve noticed comes from cds!
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post #119 of 132 Old 01-12-2013, 01:36 PM
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Could be the DVD player, or it could be that the CDs are simply more revealing than the Internet radio (Internet radio is sometimes medium quality MP3s). So because of how good the speakers are, you are hearing compression or other distortion that was in the original recording.

Your questions are answered: Speaker FAQ
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post #120 of 132 Old 01-12-2013, 01:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Could be the DVD player, or it could be that the CDs are simply more revealing than the Internet radio (Internet radio is sometimes medium quality MP3s). So because of how good the speakers are, you are hearing compression or other distortion that was in the original recording.

I would believe that the cds are the problem if it only happened with one or two, but in each and every cd I had the same problem on at least one or two songs, would a DVD player with a cheap lens and lector be able to cause this? its a Philips 25€ DVD player that I bought just to have where to play DVDs before I got the new sound system!
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