Good Speakers for Denon 2113? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 132 Old 11-08-2012, 06:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi, my second post over here, don´t know much about speakers though I´m looking for something with great sound for music and sometimes movies, I have a BOSE AM6 right now which I was planning to use as rear/surround speakers, and maybe spend some money on good front stereos and a goot center, with the idea of replacing the AM6 in a future for better speakers also. The other thing I was thinking ist o change from a AM6 to an AM15, though I haven´t read the best reviews from BOSE...I bought myself this system since I heard it before and was amazed with the sound, though in my house don´t know why it just doesn´t sound that spectacular (maybe because of the Pioneer HM50 amp that came with it?)

I would really appreciate any help around here, I´m in Germany and there´s a place where we can find godo prices but I don´t know most of the brands...Jamo, KEF Magnat, Quadral?? Then of course Denon, Pioneer, Onkyo...but in matter of quality, best sound, I have really NO IDEA, so thanks in advance for any help you can give me!! this will be my Christmas present smile.gif
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post #2 of 132 Old 11-08-2012, 06:56 PM
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Jamo and Kef are both good brands. Which models are available to you in your budget range.

Your questions are answered: Speaker FAQ
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post #3 of 132 Old 11-08-2012, 07:10 PM - Thread Starter
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that´s the thing, there are MANY models availablre, what I don´t know is if I should buy a whole system (much more expensive) or as I said, buy them separately, like to fronts and a center, so that I could change the AM6 later on for something that quality. And since I don´t know the brands or the sounds they have, I´m asking what you would recommend, I´m just buying the amp right now (after a looong search, between the Onkyo, Pioneer and Denon at the price, I decided to get the Denon at last) so I want decent good speakers!, still I may tell you some of the models I´m seeing that will be on m pricerange:

Front stereos Stand:

KEF C5 or Q 500 (if the sound difference really worth it)
Jamo S608

Front Mid-sizes:

KEF Q300 - Q800 (if the sound difference really worth it)
Jamo D500

Other question, is it better to buy stand speakers? or are the normal mid-size speakers having the same sound quality/fidelity? What I loved about the BOSE system was its actual size for the sound I "believed" it had, but the size of the stand speakers for me is kind of a drawback, don´t know if it worth to occupy that space because of the sound...?

Brands Available:

- Canton
- Denon
- Energy
- Heco
- Jamo
- KEF
- Klipsch
- Magnat
- Quadral
- Yamaha

Really really appreciate your answer!! and all of the help guys!!
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post #4 of 132 Old 11-08-2012, 07:44 PM
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Considering you like more compact speakers, I think the Kef iQ bookshelves would be a marvelous upgrade over Bose Acoustimass for you. The small drivers in the Acoustimass can't complete with the larger drivers in the iQs. You do need a sub go with the iQ bookshelf speakers. But a decent stand alone sub will also produce better bass than the Acoustimass bass module. So you win both ways.

Does this place you can buy from have a website? I'd be glad to see what kind of subs they have to. Thing about subs is that their performance is tied to room size. If you have a small room like a bedroom, an 8" sub can work. A medium sized to small living room, a 10". A medium-large to big room, a 12". Larger subs also typically extend better to the 20hz range, a plus for bluray movie watching.

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post #5 of 132 Old 11-08-2012, 07:46 PM
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Also, you will want to upgrade the Pioneer HM50 to a full sized receiver. Denon, Onkyo, Marantz, Yamaha, Pioneer--all good brands.

Your questions are answered: Speaker FAQ
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post #6 of 132 Old 11-08-2012, 07:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Considering you like more compact speakers, I think the Kef iQ bookshelves would be a marvelous upgrade over Bose Acoustimass for you. The small drivers in the Acoustimass can't complete with the larger drivers in the iQs. You do need a sub go with the iQ bookshelf speakers. But a decent stand alone sub will also produce better bass than the Acoustimass bass module. So you win both ways.
Does this place you can buy from have a website? I'd be glad to see what kind of subs they have to. Thing about subs is that their performance is tied to room size. If you have a small room like a bedroom, an 8" sub can work. A medium sized to small living room, a 10". A medium-large to big room, a 12". Larger subs also typically extend better to the 20hz range, a plus for bluray movie watching.

yes it does, Its hifishop24.de, there are many other places where I could buy even other brands if you´d suggest any better in the pricerange, but the prices here are actually very good for Germany
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Also, you will want to upgrade the Pioneer HM50 to a full sized receiver. Denon, Onkyo, Marantz, Yamaha, Pioneer--all good brands.

Yes, actually as I said I went for the Denon 2113, after a lot of research and a mental battle between thid one, the Onkyo 616 and the Pioneer 922, I think it was a good choice, now I´m deciding between the speakers...I wouldn´t be actually able to buy like a whole new system, though if you say this speakers would be an upgrade, than maybe I can leave the AM6 for the rears and buy good speakers for the fronts and the center, until I´m able to get the rest of the speakers and sell the AM, I actually don´t understand why someone gets blasts when hearing a BOSE system, but then at home its just not the same!


Since the 2113 has two possible subwoofer connections, its actually possible to have the whole AM6 for the rears and then a different sub for the fronts, don´t know if I´m talking crazy though, what do you thing about the AM15?
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post #7 of 132 Old 11-08-2012, 07:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Don´t know if you know some German, at any case, if you go to Audio -> Lautsprecher you´ll see all of the speakers, they´re divided between stand speakers or "Regal lautsprechers" that are the little ones
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post #8 of 132 Old 11-08-2012, 08:20 PM
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Missed that you said you got a Denon. That Denon 2212 is a nice a reciever. I don't know anything about hooking up Bose Acoustimass. Sorry.

Jamo Sub 660 is the one I would look at if in your budget range. The earlier version Sub 650 was on sale here, and there was a lot of positive testimonials about it on the AVS subwoofer forum. Has good response down into the 20hz range and suitable for a medium sized room or smaller. That doesn't mean some of the others aren't good, but your brands are different than ours.

Bose Acoustimass is very poorly regarded around here. For the money, it's always possible to do better than their tiny cubes and their mid-bass module. It's the physics of how speakers produce sound; tiny cubes are not a great choice. That, and Bose are even considered to be over priced for what they are. In fact, people usually recommend the Cambridge Minx over the Bose if tiny cubes are a necessity.

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post #9 of 132 Old 11-08-2012, 08:32 PM
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bose can sound decent and other times horrible and overpriced. for the money many other brands are cheaper and just as good or better. they are discontinued but try to find a pair of energy veritas 6.2. they are amazing. i heard kef once at a store. they sound good. klipsch can sound to high pitch and bright to me sometimes. i never heard jamo so can't tell you if it is good. i own a pair of older canton speakers but never got around to hooking them up. i got them at a church rummage yard sale. a few months ago i bought a lot of older amps and speakers. i am just now hooking the stuff up to see if it all works. i have been busy. i hear that canton speakers are german and hi fi. a lot of them seem over priced to me though. the last yamaha speakers that i heard recently i wasn't impressed with. the older yamaha speakers i did like.
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post #10 of 132 Old 11-08-2012, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by derneustart View Post

yes it does, Its hifishop24.de, there are many other places where I could buy even other brands if you´d suggest any better in the pricerange, but the prices here are actually very good for Germany
Look at speakers from the likes of Focal, Monitor Audio, PSB, Boston, Acoustic Energy and Mordaunt Short.

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post #11 of 132 Old 11-08-2012, 08:50 PM
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zieg i have heard psb and mordaun short. i agree they both sound great.
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post #12 of 132 Old 11-09-2012, 05:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Missed that you said you got a Denon. That Denon 2212 is a nice a reciever. I don't know anything about hooking up Bose Acoustimass. Sorry.
Jamo Sub 660 is the one I would look at if in your budget range. The earlier version Sub 650 was on sale here, and there was a lot of positive testimonials about it on the AVS subwoofer forum. Has good response down into the 20hz range and suitable for a medium sized room or smaller. That doesn't mean some of the others aren't good, but your brands are different than ours.
Bose Acoustimass is very poorly regarded around here. For the money, it's always possible to do better than their tiny cubes and their mid-bass module. It's the physics of how speakers produce sound; tiny cubes are not a great choice. That, and Bose are even considered to be over priced for what they are. In fact, people usually recommend the Cambridge Minx over the Bose if tiny cubes are a necessity.

Thanks for the advice! its a bit expensive but I´d do the effort to get it!, do you know if the 2113 has the LFE subwoofer out? I know it has two subwoofer outs (how do you know if those are LFEs?) the other thing is that you know the AM6 works connecting the speakers to the sub, and then the sub to the amp, meaning that you can´t connect the sub directly to the amp, one should just connect the whole system, that being said, I would then have two subwoofers working at a time, one for the rears (AM6) and the Jano 660 directly to the amp, would that be good or bad for the sound? For me its just cheaper to buy only fronts, center and sub, leaving the AM6 for the rears (since they don´t have the best sound as I can understand) than to change the whole system right now, prefer to spend money in some quality equipment right now that would let me complete it later, than spend less money on a complete average equipment with not so good sound, don´t know if I´m explaining myself right?
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bose can sound decent and other times horrible and overpriced. for the money many other brands are cheaper and just as good or better. they are discontinued but try to find a pair of energy veritas 6.2. they are amazing. i heard kef once at a store. they sound good. klipsch can sound to high pitch and bright to me sometimes. i never heard jamo so can't tell you if it is good. i own a pair of older canton speakers but never got around to hooking them up. i got them at a church rummage yard sale. a few months ago i bought a lot of older amps and speakers. i am just now hooking the stuff up to see if it all works. i have been busy. i hear that canton speakers are german and hi fi. a lot of them seem over priced to me though. the last yamaha speakers that i heard recently i wasn't impressed with. the older yamaha speakers i did like.

Sorry for the ignorance, but Energy is the brand and Veritas the model right? in this shop there are some speakers from that brand
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Look at speakers from the likes of Focal, Monitor Audio, PSB, Boston, Acoustic Energy and Mordaunt Short.


I have always heard that its always better to have a complete system from the same brand, than having like speakersof one brand, subs from another brand, etc, is that truth? thanks guys!!
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post #13 of 132 Old 11-09-2012, 06:24 AM
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Thanks for the advice! its a bit expensive but I´d do the effort to get it!, do you know if the 2113 has the LFE subwoofer out? I know it has two subwoofer outs (how do you know if those are LFEs?) the other thing is that you know the AM6 works connecting the speakers to the sub, and then the sub to the amp, meaning that you can´t connect the sub directly to the amp, one should just connect the whole system, that being said, I would then have two subwoofers working at a time, one for the rears (AM6) and the Jano 660 directly to the amp, would that be good or bad for the sound?

Yes. The Denon has the LFE subwoofer out. The subwoofer outputs will carry both the .1 LFE channel and any bass that is not sent to the speakers with the internal crossover.

The Jamo 650 is much better than the Acoustimass sub.If you ever get around to replacing the AM6 in the rear, you should find that you don't need the AM sub.

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post #14 of 132 Old 11-09-2012, 07:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes. The Denon has the LFE subwoofer out. The subwoofer outputs will carry both the .1 LFE channel and any bass that is not sent to the speakers with the internal crossover.
The Jamo 650 is much better than the Acoustimass sub.If you ever get around to replacing the AM6 in the rear, you should find that you don't need the AM sub.

The thing is I dont know if I can actually connect the cube speakers directly to the 2113 without burning anything down, can I? and what you think about not having all of the speakers of the same brand?
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post #15 of 132 Old 11-09-2012, 07:21 AM - Thread Starter
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There´s another shop that has also Boston Acoustics, so between KEF, Jamo, und Boston, which one is the best in your opinion?
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post #16 of 132 Old 11-09-2012, 07:28 AM
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There are lots of options and they will all work with your Denon.

Maybe I missed it through this thread, but the key questions you need to answer are:

- what is your budget (for 5.1)

- how big is your room

- do you have size or aesthetic constraints

- will they be placed close to a wall

- what speakers have you listened to; which did you like most; were there any you didn't like

Put the answers to these in one place and people can make suggestions. There is no such things as "best"; there are lots of awesome, and there are some great deals.

PS. Sell the Acoustimass (typically they sell used for decent money) and use the money to increase your budget (question #1 above).

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post #17 of 132 Old 11-09-2012, 07:43 AM - Thread Starter
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There are lots of options and they will all work with your Denon.
Maybe I missed it through this thread, but the key questions you need to answer are:
- what is your budget (for 5.1)
- how big is your room
- do you have size or aesthetic constraints
- will they be placed close to a wall
- what speakers have you listened to; which did you like most; were there any you didn't like
Put the answers to these in one place and people can make suggestions. There is no such things as "best"; there are lots of awesome, and there are some great deals.
PS. Sell the Acoustimass (typically they sell used for decent money) and use the money to increase your budget (question #1 above).

Hey! yes sorry, maybe I just started writting every little question that came through my mind and didn´t really focused, lets see, my budget its actually not fixed, I´m thinking on around 700€ leaving the 2113 aside (add around 600€ more for the Denon, but that´s already done), my idea was to keep the AM6 by the moment for the rears, so I can concentrate those +/-700€ in great front/center speakers + sub, and then afterwards "complete" the system when I can sell the AM6 for a decent price and then add something to it, what I don´t want to do is to sell them and buy more "average" equipment, at least those are my thoughts.

- My room is around 35sqm (living room/bedroom, my apartment is not so big, though i´m thinking on moving out to a bigger one next year), I used to like the Boses because I could actually "hang" them to the wall, it would look great and it should sound awesome, though that wasn´t my experience.

- About the sizes, since the apartment is not so big, I wasn´t considerating the stand speakers, I actually wanted them mounted to the wall, my leaving room as is its kind of a 3 wall corner, I have the couch on the right wall facing to the TV that´s in the left wall, so if you have a front view of it, you´ll see in front of you an empty wall, and then right couch, left TV, don´t know if you can actually imagine it.

- About listening to speakers, that´s the thing...I heard the BOSE´s a loong time ago and loved them, now that I have them they´re not so impressive, and all of these brands, KEF, Bostson, Jamo, that´s all new for me, that´s why I´m asking for advice over here, I´m a musician, a complete music lover, and i want to be able to listen to music in this set-up as if I would be living it, a beautiful crisp sound yet with outstanding bass and good mids, totally HiFi, that´s why I´m puting more money on it, and of course, I want to be able to ses movies also with good sound quality, that was another thing with the Yamaha HM50 and the AM6, every time I tried to see movies, and turned the system on, I couldn´t understand a word of what they were saying! if I turned the volume up, then the music and sound effects were too loud, in the end, a complete mess!

So hope this is clearer now guys, thanks for your time!!
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post #18 of 132 Old 11-09-2012, 08:21 AM
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no need to be sorry and there wasn't any ignorance there. you are a cool person. no worries friend. veritas is the model, but they no longer make them. they used to be almost 2 thousand for the pair, but I got them cheaper. vanns.com used to have good deals on them. not sure if that site ships to your country though.
this is what I mean, but it's hard to find them
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/542050143/energy-v6-2-floorstanding-speaker?s_c=site_search
I heard these at a store and bought them. they sounded better to me then the more expensive speakers at the store.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Energy-Veritas-V-6-2-Floorstanding-2-5-Way-Speaker-Each-Piano-Rosenut-/251144601865?pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item3a79628109
other people are selling the speaker on ebay also
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post #19 of 132 Old 11-09-2012, 12:48 PM - Thread Starter
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no need to be sorry and there wasn't any ignorance there. you are a cool person. no worries friend. veritas is the model, but they no longer make them. they used to be almost 2 thousand for the pair, but I got them cheaper. vanns.com used to have good deals on them. not sure if that site ships to your country though.
this is what I mean, but it's hard to find them
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/542050143/energy-v6-2-floorstanding-speaker?s_c=site_search
I heard these at a store and bought them. they sounded better to me then the more expensive speakers at the store.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Energy-Veritas-V-6-2-Floorstanding-2-5-Way-Speaker-Each-Piano-Rosenut-/251144601865?pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item3a79628109
other people are selling the speaker on ebay also

Thanks for clearing it up for me! I´m checking around and can´t find them, though being stand speakers they´re a litle big for me, in the Shop I was looking there´s actually some Energy speakers, I don´t know if there´s anything comparable to this ones!
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post #20 of 132 Old 11-09-2012, 12:51 PM - Thread Starter
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This store has the Veritas, but they cost 1.517€ each!!

Then they have the little shell speakers, the Veritas V5.1 in 439€ each, what do you think about them?
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post #21 of 132 Old 11-10-2012, 01:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok guys, went to a local store to try speakers, they only had Cantons, Magnatm Heco and JBL, oh, and of course, Bose, the guy offered me the Canton CLS2, and suggested me to change my new Denon for a Yamaha Receiver, since I´m still in my 15days trial time, so offered the Yamaha RX-V773 which actually sounded pretty good, since I didn´t have the opportunity to try other speakers, I still need your help guys, what you think about it?
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post #22 of 132 Old 11-10-2012, 01:57 PM
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I like Audyssey room correction software in Denons. Why do you need to change the receiver? The Denon should be fine.

As for the Cantons, if you like the sound, go for it smile.gif

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post #23 of 132 Old 11-10-2012, 02:10 PM
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The only advantages I see for the Yamaha RX-V773 is the fact it has 7.2 preouts so that you can add an external amp if you need more power and that is has dual HDMI outputs. If neither one of those is important to you then keep the Denon.

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post #24 of 132 Old 11-10-2012, 02:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

I like Audyssey room correction software in Denons. Why do you need to change the receiver? The Denon should be fine.
As for the Cantons, if you like the sound, go for it smile.gif

It actually didn´t impress me, was a...good sound, but nothing really impressive, my question is, you guys know about speaker engineering and construction (I mean, hoy the companies uses it) in your oppinion, would you choose the Cantons over the Veritas per example? didn´t get any feedback on the bookshell veritas I saw in the page, and can´t find them so still don´t know.
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Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

The only advantages I see for the Yamaha RX-V773 is the fact it has 7.2 preouts so that you can add an external amp if you need more power and that is has dual HDMI outputs. If neither one of those is important to you then keep the Denon.

Yeah I mean, the guy gave me that advice ´cause he says that Yamaha knows better about sound engineering when it comes to music since its a 125year company that makes also music instruments and pro electronics, so he thinks its much better for an audiophile to have a Yamaha receiver, he also says that a Yamaha receiver is easier to sell in a good price than a Denon if someday you wanna change it, are those the only differences between the 2113 and this Yamaha receiver? if this is the case, I catually think that if someday I need more power, I´d change the amp instead of chaining another one to it, don´t know.
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post #25 of 132 Old 11-10-2012, 02:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh, and the Denon 2113 is also 7.2! don´t really understand that preout thing you´re saying :s
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post #26 of 132 Old 11-10-2012, 02:22 PM
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Yeah I mean, the guy gave me that advice ´cause he says that Yamaha knows better about sound engineering when it comes to music since its a 125year company that makes also music instruments and pro electronics, so he thinks its much better for an audiophile to have a Yamaha receiver, he also says that a Yamaha receiver is easier to sell in a good price than a Denon if someday you wanna change it, are those the only differences between the 2113 and this Yamaha receiver? if this is the case, I catually think that if someday I need more power, I´d change the amp instead of chaining another one to it, don´t know.

Did his store sell you the Denon to begin with? Because I've never heard all this before. LOL

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post #27 of 132 Old 11-10-2012, 02:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Did his store sell you the Denon to begin with? Because I've never heard all this before. LOL

LOL yes, I bought the Denon there, but spoke with another guy, turns out that this guy is an external advisor that studied sound engineering and seems to know a lot about this stuff Ithat´s what it seems like) and he sad Yamaha would be a better choice for a "lifetime" receiver, even the A1020 would be much better since its a new technology and comes with the YPAO multi-point measure system that "doesn´t have anything to envy to the Audyssey system" so now that´s a dilemma that I have, the other thing, he says he prefers Canton over KEF because of the design engineering used by the brands to create the speakers, of course I wouldn´t take that particular advice for granted since he doesn´t sell KEF there LOL, I just want to make a good investment now so I don´t have to be in a couple of months as I am with the BOSE system :S that´s why I´m here!

Oh, and they´d make me a nice price on the Yamaha receiver, so I´d actually won´t have to put much money on top to change it, maybe 50€....don´t know if this is normal though, what would you guys do? Yamaha or Denon? quality and designwise? and speakers, KEF, Energy or Canton? damn!! is this hard
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post #28 of 132 Old 11-10-2012, 02:57 PM
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Oh, and the Denon 2113 is also 7.2! don´t really understand that preout thing you´re saying :s

The preouts thing means if you feel your receiver doesn't have enough power to drive your speakers you can connect an external amp like this for more power. It's a nice option to have just in case.
http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/amplifiers/products/xpa5

You can't do that with the Denon 2112. But if you have pretty efficient speakers that may never come into play. But if you have power hungry 4 ohm speakers an external amp is often recommended. I don't know much about the speakers you're getting so it may not matter.

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post #29 of 132 Old 11-10-2012, 03:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

The preouts thing means if you feel your receiver doesn't have enough power to drive your speakers you can connect an external amp like this for more power. It's a nice option to have just in case.
http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/amplifiers/products/xpa5
You can't do that with the Denon 2112. But if you have pretty efficient speakers that may never come into play. But if you have power hungry 4 ohm speakers an external amp is often recommended. I don't know much about the speakers you're getting so it may not matter.

Well afrogt, that´s one of the reasons I´m here! I have NO IDEA on what to buy, so need help, if oyu go through the thread you´ll see my doubts, right now I´m between Energy Veritas (a suggestoin from some people over here) KEFs or Cantons, and after I decided for the Denon 2113, some sound engineer tells me the design in the Yamahas its better and I should change it, I´ve read that the YPAO has many problems that the Audyssey don´t have, so I really don´t know! help? :S
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post #30 of 132 Old 11-10-2012, 03:23 PM
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Well the reviewers on this side of the pond think the new Veritas speakers build quality is extremely nice but the tweeters can be a little bright sounding and fatiguing compared to say the Energy RC series. We've been offered some amazing deals on the Veritas and RC line here. Doesn't look like you're getting the discount pricing we had here so I'd probably skip them. Plus I'm not too sure Energy will be around in the long run. The V5.1 Veritas is a bookshelf speaker about the same size as the Energy RC-10.

I don't know enough about the Canton, Magnat, Quadral and some of the other brands to give an opinion. I do own some Jamo speakers but not theS608 or D500 models that interest you. I've heard KEF iQ speakers and the vocals are extremely clear. Bass isn't as deep as some other speakers but you've got a subwoofer to handle the low end.

I'd advise you to take some music on CD that you know very well and audition as many speakers as you can. that's the only way you'll get some satisfaction with your purchase.

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