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post #1 of 22 Old 11-25-2012, 05:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi folks, I'm new to the game and trying to get my first HT setup going. I have the Denon AVR-1613 on the way, and I'm just waiting for a deal on the Polk Monitor 60/70s or Infinity P363 for fronts.

Absolutely naive question, but what sort of cable do I need and what sort of connectors? The speakers have 5-way binding posts (no idea what this means!).

What is a good quality product cable (for the budget minded), and what connectors are preferred (banana vs double-banana vs Y/spade vs bare)? Also, what gauge is reguired (12/14/16/18?). My speakers will be less than 6ft from the receiver.

Thanks all!
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post #2 of 22 Old 11-25-2012, 06:17 PM
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Gauge: http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#wiretable

Wire: http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10239
Alternate wire: Your local Home Depot, Radioshack, etc.

Pretty wire: http://www.parts-express.com/cat/speaker-cables/2161?kg=885|3289
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post #3 of 22 Old 11-25-2012, 06:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Jerry. So 50ft of the 12AWG Enhanced Loud Oxygen-Free Copper Speaker Wire Cable ($15) and 8 copper banana plugs ($2) is all I need?

Am I correct in thinking I need 8 for two speakers?
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post #4 of 22 Old 11-25-2012, 06:41 PM
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Assuming an average receiver-to-speaker distance of 25' or less, yes.

The banana plugs are for convenience. You can screw in the bare wire as well if you don't plan on shuffling the gear around often (or even if you do, but you don't mind all the reattaching)
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post #5 of 22 Old 11-25-2012, 07:38 PM
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If your speakers are only 6 feet away even 16ga is fine. I typically use 14ga because I like the thickness of it. Sometimes 12ga is diffcult to use with banana plugs.
Quote:
Hi folks, I'm new to the game and trying to get my first HT setup going. I have the Denon AVR-1613 on the way, and I'm just waiting for a deal on the Polk Monitor 60/70s or Infinity P363 for fronts.


Waiting on a deal for Monitor 60/70's and Infinity 363's? They're on sale right now, no need to wait!

Currently the Infnity's are $109 each at Fry's.
http://www.frys.com/ads/page4

The P163 bookshelf speakers are $107/pr
http://www.frys.com/ads/page8

Monitor 60's are $99 each
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882290206

Monitor 70's are $199 right now but can go as low as $149ea.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882290208

So what are you waiting for? biggrin.gif

Afro GT
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post #6 of 22 Old 11-25-2012, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gcoulson View Post

what sort of cable do I need
Speaker cable, that's how it's labeled. Don't spend more than 50 cents a foot. As for gauge, use this:
http://www.bcae1.com/images/swfs/speakerwireselectorassistant.swf
Quote:
and what sort of connectors?
None, actually. They're handy if you regularly plug and unplug your cables, but otherwise serve no purpose.

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post #7 of 22 Old 11-25-2012, 07:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow, I hadn't seen the p363 prices...last I checked was $199 each! I know the M60's are $99....but was hoping to see the M70's come down. Know I saw them for cheaper than the current $199/each on Newegg a week ago.

Not sure which is better between the p363 or the M60's? Seems to be a fan-base for either depending on who has them!

EDIT: tried to click on the Fry's deal, but keeps giving error message "No Products Were Found" and doing a normal search on their website for the p363 yields nothing. Strange. Just the sale I was looking for!
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post #8 of 22 Old 11-25-2012, 07:50 PM
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Exactly, you just need to make a decision. Both speakers have their legions of fans.

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post #9 of 22 Old 11-25-2012, 08:00 PM - Thread Starter
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From all the reading I've done, it seems the p363 is the better speaker. But the argument is that it is not $$ better to justify the extra cost over the Polks. But if I can nab them for $109/each, I'll do it. Just can't get the darn Fry's website to play ball!!
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post #10 of 22 Old 11-25-2012, 08:29 PM
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A 5-way binding post just means that it will accommodate a variety of terminating ends, like banana, pin, spade, wave, and bare wire.

I would just go with 12 gauge wire all around. Monoprice and Parts Express are the go-to shops for everything you would need to build your own cables. I want a nice-looking cable as well, so I have a few places I source my parts from.

I usually get my speaker wire and cable pants from KnuKonceptz ( http://www.knukonceptz.com/index.cfm ) because they actually ENCASE the two HIGH-STRAND conductors in PVC rather than just have a jacket. The strand count is 2-3 times higher than the MonoPrice stuff. Their in-wall CL3 cables are a nice, uniform round shape PERFECT for a TechFlex wrap. TechFlex is just a flexible, expandable, nylon weave cable cover. I just buy the CL3-rated cable and cover it up with TechFlex and slip cable pants over the ends. The main thing with CL3 is you get the extra insulation whether you are running inside walls or not. Easy to cover up the ugly white cable with printing on it with TechFlex. KnuKonceptz sells the 12 gauge cable pants too but you van get that from MonoPrice or Parts Express too. I order my TechFlex from a seller ( http://stores.ebay.com/FURRYLETTERS?_trksid=p2047675.l2563 ) on eBay but that can be found at the other places too. I just needed a large quantity of it and the price was right for a 500 foot roll of Carbon color. They also have way more color choices than MonoPrice or Parts Express. You can even get some that looks like a Rattlesnake. LOL

I purchase my Banana terminations from Orange County Speaker ( http://www.speakerrepair.com/ ). I have their GLS Audio regular locking banana plugs but those can be hard to tighten in cramped places. They are high-quality bananas with a double screw holding system. I am currently switching to their Wave Flex plugs. The Nakamichi banana plugs and wave plugs found on eBay are highly-rated as well.



Top wire is Tributaries CL2 12/2 gauge with plain-old heat shrink on the ends. Bottom wire is KnuKonceptz 10 gauge CL3 10/2 using their 12 gauge cable pants to hold the TechFlex in place. The banana plugs are the GLS Audio locking banana plugs. Get the Wave Flex for easier connecting of cables to equipment in tight places.

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post #11 of 22 Old 11-26-2012, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jevans64 View Post

The strand count is 2-3 times higher than the MonoPrice stuff. .
Strand count has no effect on the sound; you can use Romex and it will work just as well. The only advantage to higher strand count is a more flexible cable, which may be worth paying more for in some instances, but it won't sound any different.

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post #12 of 22 Old 11-26-2012, 06:18 AM
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Jevans didn't make any claims regarding sound.

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post #13 of 22 Old 11-26-2012, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Strand count has no effect on the sound; you can use Romex and it will work just as well. The only advantage to higher strand count is a more flexible cable, which may be worth paying more for in some instances, but it won't sound any different.

Agreed. And I should have added that I like the flexibility of the KunKnoceptz wire for in-wall installation and working it in tight places, like a TV stand that is only a couple of inches deeper than my components. The MonoPrice stuff, and even the Tributaries wire, was too stiff for my needs. The 10 Gauge wire is way more flexible than the 12 gauge Tributaries.

The KnuKonceptz wire was so flexible that I was able to forgo a patch wall plate and run the cables directly through the wall. I removed the couplers and reamed out the holes a bit to accommodate the 10 gauge wire wrapped in TechFlex. It won't make a difference sonically, but I saved a bit on banana plugs since I only need 4 per cable now. No way the cable is coming loose inside the wall if I go tugging on something else again.

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post #14 of 22 Old 11-26-2012, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jevans64 View Post

A 5-way binding post just means that it will accommodate a variety of terminating ends, like banana, pin, spade, wave, and bare wire.

I would just go with 12 gauge wire all around. Monoprice and Parts Express are the go-to shops for everything you would need to build your own cables. I want a nice-looking cable as well, so I have a few places I source my parts from.

I usually get my speaker wire and cable pants from KnuKonceptz ( http://www.knukonceptz.com/index.cfm ) because they actually ENCASE the two HIGH-STRAND conductors in PVC rather than just have a jacket. The strand count is 2-3 times higher than the MonoPrice stuff. ***

Does KnuKnoceptz use real copper now, or still copper-clad aluminum?

No functional difference, but CCAW is thicker than copper for a given resistance. (I.e. need a thicker-diameter wire for same performance.)

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post #15 of 22 Old 11-26-2012, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

No functional difference, but CCAW is thicker than copper for a given resistance. (I.e. need a thicker-diameter wire for same performance.)
A lot thicker, having only 61% the conductivity of copper. Copper being not all that expensive I don't see the need for CCAW.

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post #16 of 22 Old 11-26-2012, 05:44 PM
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Agreed, Bill, but for some reason a lot of the car-fi companies use CCAW. I saw some 10AWG speaker wires from Knu a couple years ago that were CCAW.

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post #17 of 22 Old 11-26-2012, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

Does KnuKnoceptz use real copper now, or still copper-clad aluminum?
No functional difference, but CCAW is thicker than copper for a given resistance. (I.e. need a thicker-diameter wire for same performance.)

The CL3-rated 10 gauge I got is 462 strand Oxygen-free copper. Not sure about the 12 gauge or their car audio wire. 12 gauge says it is copper as well -- 294 strand. I can make a uniform 3" diameter circle with the 10 gauge.

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post #18 of 22 Old 11-27-2012, 05:15 AM
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Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

Agreed, Bill, but for some reason a lot of the car-fi companies use CCAW. I saw some 10AWG speaker wires from Knu a couple years ago that were CCAW.

car guys like thick cables... smile.gif

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post #19 of 22 Old 11-27-2012, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

Agreed, Bill, but for some reason a lot of the car-fi companies use CCAW.
Because aluminum is cheaper than copper.
Quote:
car guys like thick cables
Heavy gauge cables for the amp power supply are necessary due to the low voltage supply, and therefore higher current draw. They can be necessary for the typical 2 ohm speaker loads of car speakers, also raising current demands, but with the small wire lengths in a car the necessity of it is probably overblown. OTOH typical car audio nuts tend to be under 25 years old, with limited (if any) technical knowledge, and are more susceptible to spurious advertising claims than older and wiser HT owners. Of course, there are plenty of older HT owners who aren't any wiser, otherwise outfits like Monster wouldn't exist. rolleyes.gif

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post #20 of 22 Old 11-27-2012, 06:20 AM
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^^^

yup... it was the last part i was referring to... smile.gif they tend to like those thicker/shinier cables, even if the wire gauge is the same...

never really had an issue with speaker wire gauge in a car... i DID have an issue when i (foolishly) used too small of a gauge from the battery to the amp though... redface.gif

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post #21 of 22 Old 11-27-2012, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by gcoulson View Post

Am I correct in thinking I need 8 for two speakers?

Only if you plan on bi-wiring or implementing a DIY 2 into 4 wire configuration. Otherwise, 2 per speaker will do. Your speaker has 4 binding posts but the two Pos and Neg are connected with metal jumpers, so which ever set you choose to use, the other two will receive current as well.

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post #22 of 22 Old 11-27-2012, 08:17 AM
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they tend to like those thicker/shinier cables, even if the wire gauge is the same...
They also swoon over pretty frames and other cosmetics that don't do anything for the sound, and don't do anything for the looks either once you load them into a box. mad.gif
Fancy rims don't make you go any faster, but at least you can see them. smile.gif

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