bi-amping a bi-wire speaker - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 14 Old 11-27-2012, 06:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello,

I am seriously considering the Ascend CMT 340se speakers for my HT. I like that they seem very efficient and can take quite a bit of power. But, I noticed that the speakers are bi-wireable and not bi-ampable. I know what each term means, but what would happen if someone bi-amped a speaker that was meant to be bi-wired only? Thanks...




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post #2 of 14 Old 11-27-2012, 07:35 PM
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but a speaker with dual binding posts connected via a jumper plate/wire can be both bi-amped or bi-wired. The jumper plate merely provides and external connection between the internal crossover sections. The crossover and speaker does not know the difference whether it has been bi-amped or bi-wired. So the answer to your question would be that nothing would happen.
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post #3 of 14 Old 11-27-2012, 07:38 PM
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^^^

you are correct...

neither option accomplishes anything though...

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post #4 of 14 Old 11-27-2012, 07:40 PM
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Here's the Ascend designer's take http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showpost.php?p=32217&postcount=4

Do you truly have separate amps to make this even somewhat interesting? Do you have the desire to open the speaker and truly bi-amp these speakers and have the electronics to carry it out?

"I realize that somebody playing free music isn't as commercial as a hamburger stand. But is it because you can eat a hamburger and hold it in your hand and you can't do that with music? Is it too free to control?" - Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) discussing commercial success in the music biz


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post #5 of 14 Old 11-27-2012, 07:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

Here's the Ascend designer's take http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showpost.php?p=32217&postcount=4
Do you truly have separate amps to make this even somewhat interesting? Do you have the desire to open the speaker and truly bi-amp these speakers and have the electronics to carry it out?


No, I have a 7.1 receiver with 140W/ch. It's a Pioneer SC-27. I am presently bi-amping my speakers using the rear surrounds as the power to the upper binding posts. I don't have the speakers yet, but, it was truly doable and would make a difference in performance then I would be open to trying it.
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post #6 of 14 Old 11-27-2012, 07:51 PM - Thread Starter
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By-the-way, the article answered the question pretty well. Thanks for the link!
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post #7 of 14 Old 11-27-2012, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brucegn View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

Here's the Ascend designer's take http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showpost.php?p=32217&postcount=4
Do you truly have separate amps to make this even somewhat interesting? Do you have the desire to open the speaker and truly bi-amp these speakers and have the electronics to carry it out?


No, I have a 7.1 receiver with 140W/ch. It's a Pioneer SC-27. I am presently bi-amping my speakers using the rear surrounds as the power to the upper binding posts. I don't have the speakers yet, but, it was truly doable and would make a difference in performance then I would be open to trying it.

Personally I'd say your wasting your time thinking your avr can bi-amp at all. Some avrs have the circuitry to truly do it, but that's not one of them afaik. Without truly separate amps I don't think you'll hear an advantage unless you convince yourself you are by doing so...

"I realize that somebody playing free music isn't as commercial as a hamburger stand. But is it because you can eat a hamburger and hold it in your hand and you can't do that with music? Is it too free to control?" - Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) discussing commercial success in the music biz


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post #8 of 14 Old 11-27-2012, 07:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

Personally I'd say your wasting your time thinking your avr can bi-amp at all. Some avrs have the circuitry to truly do it, but that's not one of them afaik. Without truly separate amps I don't think you'll hear an advantage unless you convince yourself you are by doing so...

Interesting...I have thought about taking the plunge and getting one the the emotive amps, but I have yet to work up the funds to do so. So, I think for now I will connect my future speakers to the lower binding posts and just use the metal connector plates to the top...thanks for the info. BTW, what is afaik?
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post #9 of 14 Old 11-27-2012, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by brucegn View Post

what would happen if someone bi-amped a speaker that was meant to be bi-wired only?
There would be some improvement, by reducing intermodulation distortion via separately amplifying the highs and lows. But unless you bypass the internal passive crossover you wouldn't get the full benefit.

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post #10 of 14 Old 11-27-2012, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brucegn View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

Personally I'd say your wasting your time thinking your avr can bi-amp at all. Some avrs have the circuitry to truly do it, but that's not one of them afaik. Without truly separate amps I don't think you'll hear an advantage unless you convince yourself you are by doing so...

Interesting...I have thought about taking the plunge and getting one the the emotive amps, but I have yet to work up the funds to do so. So, I think for now I will connect my future speakers to the lower binding posts and just use the metal connector plates to the top...thanks for the info. BTW, what is afaik?

afaik-as far as I know

Bill is a speaker designer, haven't heard that about IMD before, so maybe even with an avr amp this is something?

"I realize that somebody playing free music isn't as commercial as a hamburger stand. But is it because you can eat a hamburger and hold it in your hand and you can't do that with music? Is it too free to control?" - Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) discussing commercial success in the music biz


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post #11 of 14 Old 11-27-2012, 08:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

There would be some improvement, by reducing intermodulation distortion via separately amplifying the highs and lows. But unless you bypass the internal passive crossover you wouldn't get the full benefit.

Thanks for the info. If I get those speakers I'll try hooking up 3 different ways to see which sounds best...single wire, bi-wire and bi-amp.
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post #12 of 14 Old 11-27-2012, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

afaik-as far as I know
Bill is a speaker designer, haven't heard that about IMD before, so maybe even with an avr amp this is something?
It depends on the AVR of course, it must have a true electronic crossover. The main source of IMD is when the amp is pushing hard on the lows, which impacts it's ability to cleanly deliver the highs. The worst case scenario is when the amp starts to clip, which gives not only high level IMD but also high level THD. If you bi-amp both conditions are alleviated, especially the potentially tweeter destroying THD. The low frequency amp may still clip, but the resulting increased power density in the harmonics won't bother woofers.

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post #13 of 14 Old 11-28-2012, 04:07 AM
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I have an intergra DTR 40.2 that allows the option of bi amping the front left and right speakers. The trade off is 7.1 is not available any more. I did try biamping my front speakers BW 906 I think, and there is a difference in sound primarily for music. I like the sound and left it that way. It doesn't seem to make much of a diff for movies and I have been using the system as 5.1 any way. To me the most difference seems to be a depth to drum beats. I have a nice Matrin Logan sub woofer but I am not a fanatic and it is not shake the walls. It just seems to add depth to drums. Just my two cents.
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post #14 of 14 Old 12-01-2012, 09:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the comments, truly appreciated.
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